Chapter 616: "Anniversary of Revenge" Discussion

RomanceDawn

Seems liek you never noticed, that everytime Zoro was "handicapped" Sanji was as well.

Starting Baratie

1. Let himself being beaten up by Pearl to protect Zeff and afterwards he fought Gin

2. Sanji had to save Luffy and swim under water against a freaking FISHMAN.

3. If anyone says that Zoro was handicapped against Mr 1. Sanji was handicapped cut Mr 2 was using Nami's tits againt him… LOL

4. At EL Sanji let himself being beaten once again by Khalifa before facing Jabura.

5. At TB he had to protect Nami against Absalom

I just hate people talking. OMG poor Zoro is always handicaped and never can go full out...

Never really thought about it but yeah, good point. Of the 3, it seems like Luffy is the only one who gets most of his main battles without a Handicap.

RomanceDawn

This post is deleted!

mcdreamy

@KiShiDo:

Seems liek you never noticed, that everytime Zoro was "handicapped" Sanji was as well.

Starting Baratie

1. Let himself being beaten up by Pearl to protect Zeff and afterwards he fought Gin

2. Sanji had to save Luffy and swim under water against a freaking FISHMAN.

3. If anyone says that Zoro was handicapped against Mr 1. Sanji was handicapped cut Mr 2 was using Nami's tits againt him… LOL

4. At EL Sanji let himself being beaten once again by Khalifa before facing Jabura.

5. At TB he had to protect Nami against Absalom

I just hate people talking. OMG poor Zoro is always handicaped and never can go full out...

Sanji's just stupid. He does that crap to himself. Zoro on the other hand doesn't get handicapped on purpose. I'm quoting sanji himself when I say he's an idiotic bastard.

arlekin21

@S.C.:

That image via Garp seems to suggest so.

Johny or Yosaku cant remember which one saw the schichibukai?? As all being tall slim and with swords but only Mihawk filled the description

Johnny B. Decent

@arlekin21:

Johny or Yosaku cant remember which one saw the schichibukai?? As all being tall slim and with swords but only Mihawk filled the description

I think we can trust Garp's memory and knowledge more then them and Shanks and WB also were in the shot.

Mr. Sandman

Well Johnny and Yosako didn't even know what the shichibukai looked like. Those seven random figures were just to heighten the anticipation and foreshadowing of the shichibukai.

That's was so long ago….we've only just recently seen every shichibukai revealed. I wonder how long we'll have to wait to see the remaining yonkou and vegapunk.

Cymelion

@Mr.:

Well Johnny and Yosako didn't even know what the shichibukai looked like. Those seven random figures were just to heighten the anticipation and foreshadowing of the shichibukai.

That's was so long ago….we've only just recently seen every shichibukai revealed. I wonder how long we'll have to wait to see the remaining yonkou and vegapunk.

There was an image believed to be Kaidou's back floating around I think - weird looking fellow with pot style armour on

Kishido

@mcdreamy:

Sanji's just stupid. He does that crap to himself. Zoro on the other hand doesn't get handicapped on purpose. I'm quoting sanji himself when I say he's an idiotic bastard.

Yeah he is stupid for letting himself being beaten up to save Zeff from a head shot

He is stupid of rescuing Luffy from the water

He is stupid to save Nami

Yeah of course. Than Zoro is tupid as well going against Mihawk cut he thought he s that awesome

What a troll you are. No one denies that Zoro was handicapped a lot of time. But like so often this feats of Zoro are always pushes way to far ignoring that Sanji had all the time "handicaps" as well.

For you troll I will compare that after Sanji has joined

Arlong Park
Zoro had troubley cuz of his wounds given by Mihawk
Sanji jumped into water to save Luffy against a Fishman. Kurobi got free hits

Arabasta
Well i don't see any handicaps for Zoro, but people try to say the iron sutff was one… Than Luffy was handicapped even more and Sanji with the Mr. 2 Nami transformation as well

Water 7/EL
Zoro was handcuffed with Usopp for some time cuz they were idiots. Zoro fought t-Bone and was owned by Lucci in W7

Sanji fought Jerry, Wanze, a whole train and at the end he was beaten by CP9 as well. In EL he let himself being owned by Khalifa before facing and once again rescuing a nakama. Stupid or not. It was a handicap

TB
Well some people are say Zoro was handicapped cuz he only had 2 swords. Sanji had to protect Nami during all the fight, which isn't stupid.

But it is the way like always. Sanji get similar feats but only Zoro's are worthy to mention.

best examples
Zoro were lifting a house... WOW
Sanji kicked building parts like footballs..: meeh

Zoro was swinging the huge ass nunchuck... WOW
Sanji kicked Zoro with the nunchuk in high speed towwards Oars... meeh

Zoro deflected a Oars punch. WOW
Sanji deflected a OARS Bazooka after Moria gave him the ability to stretch. Meeh

Zoro stood up against Kuma. WOW
Sanji as well... Meeh

and many more stuff

Sonic Youth

B-B-B-but he t-t-t-took the PAINZ FROM LUFFY.

Kishido

@Sonic:

B-B-B-but he t-t-t-took the PAINZ FROM LUFFY.

Yeah it was awesome. Sani probably wouldn't make it but we can't say it cuz we never saw it.

It would be like saying… but Sanji saved all SHs twice with his master plans and Zoro not

mcdreamy

@KiShiDo:

Yeah it was awesome. Sani probably wouldn't make it but we can't say it cuz we never saw it.

It would be like saying… but Sanji saved all SHs twice with his master plans and Zoro not

Yes fighting a fishman in the water was stupid. Zoro told him to own the dude on land then go in but of course sanji had better plans. I said it b4 but sanji has called himself an idiotic bastard and the main reason sanji and zoro fight all the time is because sanji is a perverted imp/idiotic bastard and he can't stand it when zoro looks down on him. If you think zoro fighting mihawk was stupid then you must think luffy is the supreme god of idiots for wanting to become the pirate king. Calling me a troll for pointing out the obvious is a little childish but you go ahead and do you. As for who has saved the strawhats the most, all I have to do is point out whiskey peak and the fight with kuma on thriller bark and be done.

(I can tell by your name that you like sanji's kishido but i'm gonna have to side with zoro and say that sanji's lil dances are way idiotic and a noob like luffy get's better ladies than sanji does even without kishido or even trying for that matter. Face it man sanji's a joke within a joke and the sooner he grows up the better it is for the strawhats.)

DooMinator

@mcdreamy:

the sooner he grows up the better it is for the strawhats

It doesn't seem like he matured alot from the time he was at the restaurant-ship :ninja:

Kishido

@mcdreamy:

Yes fighting a fishman in the water was stupid. Zoro told him to own the dude on land then go in but of course sanji had better plans. I said it b4 but sanji has called himself an idiotic bastard and the main reason sanji and zoro fight all the time is because sanji is a perverted imp/idiotic bastard and he can't stand it when zoro looks down on him. If you think zoro fighting mihawk was stupid then you must think luffy is the supreme god of idiots for wanting to become the pirate king. Calling me a troll for pointing out the obvious is a little childish but you go ahead and do you. As for who has saved the strawhats the most, all I have to do is point out whiskey peak and the fight with kuma on thriller bark and be done.

(I can tell by your name that you like sanji's kishido but i'm gonna have to side with zoro and say that sanji's lil dances are way idiotic and a noob like luffy get's better ladies than sanji does even without kishido or even trying for that matter. Face it man sanji's a joke within a joke and the sooner he grows up the better it is for the strawhats.)

Yeah Zoro is a smart person. LOL

Still doesn't change anything that they had similar feats^^ Seems like you haven't got my post.
BTW Sanji saved Zoro from Kuma as well^^ And if someone is looking down at the other… he doesn't get provoked or pissed

If you like him or not. I like both characters my friend. And I like both better than Luffy. Now I say Luffy is stupid is childish and a idiot for all the things he has done.

Seriously dunno where your problem is just because of your Sanji hate xD it doesn't change anything.

By your logic you should hate 7 of 9 SHs. Cuz all of them are some sort of idiots besides the girls

mcdreamy

@KiShiDo:

Yeah zoro is a smart person. Still doesn't change anything that they had similar feats^^ Seems like you haven't got my post.
BTW Sanji saved Zoro from Kuma as well^^ And if someone is looking down at the other… he doesn't get provoked or pissed.

If you like him or not. I like both characters my friend. And I like both better than Luffy. Now I say Luffy is stupid is childish and a idiot for all the things he has done.

Seriously dunno where your problem is just because of your Sanji hate xD it doesn't change anything.

By your logic you should hate 7 of 9 SHs. Cuz all of them are some sort of idiots besides the girls

I have beef with all the strawhats (that is they all have their quirks) but I like them all. Sanji's a good fighter nobody's saying he isn't but comparing him to zoro was a bad idea. And as for your dislike of luffy that's up to you but since he's the one who brought them all together in the first place and he makes things happen you should probably give him his due. Personally I don't think luffy is stupid (I think he doesn't know a lot of things but it doesn't mean he's stupid) and I think he has more man in him than most of the chars in one piece put together (The anime version of the war arc tried to change that image but i ignored it).

Pacer

@mcdreamy:

I have beef with all the strawhats (that is they all have their quirks) but I like them all. Sanji's a good fighter nobody's saying he isn't but comparing him to zoro was a bad idea. And as for your dislike of luffy that's up to you but since he's the one who brought them all together in the first place and he makes things happen you should probably give him his due. Personally I don't think luffy is stupid (I think he doesn't know a lot of things but it doesn't mean he's stupid) and I think he has more man in him than most of the chars in one piece put together (The anime version of the war arc tried to change that image but i ignored it).

i think u guys use the word stupid too loosely. when it comes to IQ, luffy is indeed stupid.

Strawhat Chan

@Cymelion:

There was an image believed to be Kaidou's back floating around I think - weird looking fellow with pot style armour on

Obviously a fake, so nobody cares about the pic.

Kishido

@mcdreamy:

I have beef with all the strawhats (that is they all have their quirks) but I like them all. Sanji's a good fighter nobody's saying he isn't but comparing him to zoro was a bad idea. And as for your dislike of luffy that's up to you but since he's the one who brought them all together in the first place and he makes things happen you should probably give him his due. Personally I don't think luffy is stupid (I think he doesn't know a lot of things but it doesn't mean he's stupid) and I think he has more man in him than most of the chars in one piece put together (The anime version of the war arc tried to change that image but i ignored it).

WTF? I just said they had similar "handicaps" and "feats". And there is no denying it. Both had handicapes and both had awesome and similar feats. If you don't agree than you just chose to not see it.

You pushed it so far with your Zoro is smarter, more matured and a lot of stronger bla bla.

And where I have said I dislike Luffy? Seriously don't put things in my mouth. I just have said that I like Zoro and Sanji more cuz this are my 2 Favs… Seriously leran to read my posts, even if it can be hard cuz of my poor grammar.

But forget it. Way off topic and it can't be changed

HikaruYami

@KiShiDo:

You pushed it so far with your Zoro is smarter, more matured and a lot of stronger

I'm not disagreeing with you on anything you've said (handicaps, feats being similar), but please tell me you at LEAST admit that Zoro is more mature than Sanji.

Kishido

He is that's true. But on the other hand more dumb in other things as well.

Each male SH is somehow dumb. Zoro is the most mature one, followed by either Sanji or Franky

Sonic Youth

Mature levels:
1. Zoro
2. Sanji
3. Franky
4. Usopp (timeskip)

Below this is just a big mess of teen-angst and fartjokes.

wolfwood

I assume that's a male chart. Cause Robin is easily the most mature and levelheaded of the strawhats.

Kishido

@wolfwood:

I assume that's a male chart. Cause Robin is easily the most mature and levelheaded of the strawhats.

Only the males are truly stupid

Muah

@Sonic:

Mature levels:
1. Zoro
2. Sanji
3. Franky
4. Usopp (timeskip)

Below this is just a big mess of teen-angst and fartjokes.

Lmao u put sanji and zoro over Usopp. Sanji and zoro are two suicidal assholes that cause bundles of trouble for everyone. Most mature is brooke robin nami Usopp chopper sanji zoro luffy. Brooke may be a little off and inappropriate but when it comes to propriety he is above all the strawhats. He was the only one to properly introduce himself to luffy. He actually thinks of the consequences to his actions. If he had some actual power he'd be the most Fearsome in the crew. Robin is of course mature and to herself. Nami is the obvious next. Usopp is the only voice of reason seeing as he only wants adventure and looks to start as little trouble as possible. The monster trio are tied basically. And franky is dead last. His whole career is based on living frivolously.

HikaruYami

@Muah:

Lmao u put sanji and zoro over Usopp. Sanji and zoro are two suicidal assholes that cause bundles of trouble for everyone. Most mature is brooke robin nami Usopp chopper sanji zoro luffy. Brooke may be a little off and inappropriate but when it comes to propriety he is above all the strawhats. He was the only one to properly introduce himself to luffy. He actually thinks of the consequences to his actions. If he had some actual power he'd be the most Fearsome in the crew. Robin is of course mature and to herself. Nami is the obvious next. Usopp is the only voice of reason seeing as he only wants adventure and looks to start as little trouble as possible. The monster trio are tied basically. And franky is dead last. His whole career is based on living frivolously.

BA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I will no longer pay attention to any of your opinions.

Most mature is trivially Robin. Though the person up there that only listed guys was certainly not counting the girls, but anyway….

Post timeskip, I'd say Maturity goes Robin > Zoro > Nami > Franky > Sanji > Usopp > Luffy > Brook > Chopper.

That's right, I just called Brook less mature than Luffy. Because he's even more of a walking poop joke "Even though he can't poop! Yohohoho".

Stylishman

@Muah:

Lmao u put sanji and zoro over Usopp. Sanji and zoro are two suicidal assholes that cause bundles of trouble for everyone. Most mature is brooke robin nami Usopp chopper sanji zoro luffy.

i think you misjudge sanji

-in arabasta, he saves everyone by slipping in (not charging in) to save the rest of the crew, who have all fallen for a trap
-in skypeia, he saves the day by sneaking on the maxim and breaking stuff
-in water 7, he is the one who boards CP9s train and saves franky without CP9s knowledge
-in enies lobby, it was sanji who went away to use the gate controls towards the end, saving everything

hes had some pretty lucid moments, would a suicidal asshole act like this?

Redspear

@Muah:

Lmao u put sanji and zoro over Usopp. Sanji and zoro are two suicidal assholes that cause bundles of trouble for everyone. Most mature is brooke robin nami Usopp chopper sanji zoro luffy. Brooke may be a little off and inappropriate but when it comes to propriety he is above all the strawhats. He was the only one to properly introduce himself to luffy. He actually thinks of the consequences to his actions. If he had some actual power he'd be the most Fearsome in the crew. Robin is of course mature and to herself. Nami is the obvious next. Usopp is the only voice of reason seeing as he only wants adventure and looks to start as little trouble as possible. The monster trio are tied basically. And franky is dead last. His whole career is based on living frivolously.

Weren't you banned?

anyway i think it would be:

Robin
Zoro
Nami
Usopp
Sanji
Franky
Chopper
Brook
Luffy

triforcebih

@HikaruYami:

BA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I will no longer pay attention to any of your opinions.

Most mature is trivially Robin. Though the person up there that only listed guys was certainly not counting the girls, but anyway….

Post timeskip, I'd say Maturity goes Robin > Zoro > Nami > Franky > Sanji > Usopp > Luffy > Brook > Chopper.

That's right, I just called Brook less mature than Luffy. Because he's even more of a walking poop joke "Even though he can't poop! Yohohoho".

Seriously. I mean what the fuck. Yes Robin is the most mature one but Brook dude… He does look like a complete idiot, and acts like one but I still think that he is mature. Maybe like after Zoro or on par with him. And I hope that's gonna be proved in the manga. I just can't see him as unmature especialy when I take his age into account and what he went through. So far I've never seen him act reckless or retarded in a serious situation :/

And why the heck even discuss Brook ? He is in the crew for such a short time. We pretty much know shit bout him.

wolfwood

I'd probably place Luffy alot higher than most. He is dumb as a sack of doorknobs i'll give you that but to me he has shown plenty of maturity.

triforcebih

At the end it all depends on the situation. In some situations Luffy was shown to be the most mature, in others Zoro, generaly it is Robin.. and etc

mcdreamy

I was rereading the baratie arc and in one translation Sanji calls all blue the sea of miracles. What if when they make it to all blue, the sea takes away luffy's ocean weakness O.o just a thought. And yeah triforce is right, just like how on the ship luffy and zoro are considered stupid, but when they're lives are on the line they become intelligent and clever. Same thing with the maturity issue.

(I'm sure someone's already mentioned this somewhere but I think everyone on the crew with the exception of brooke probably have COO. They all heard the voice of the going merry, a ship, so we can probably consider it going merry's final gift to the strawhats for awakening their COO lol.)

Bulletproof

@mcdreamy:

I was rereading the baratie arc and in one translation Sanji calls all blue the sea of miracles. What if when they make it to all blue, the sea takes away luffy's ocean weakness O.o just a thought. And yeah triforce is right, just like how on the ship luffy and zoro are considered stupid, but when they're lives are on the line they become intelligent and clever. Same thing with the maturity issue.

(I'm sure someone's already mentioned this somewhere but I think everyone on the crew with the exception of brooke probably have COO. They all heard the voice of the going merry, a ship, so we can probably consider it going merry's final gift to the strawhats for awakening their COO lol.)

This post was a joke, right?

Urouge

@triforcebih:

Seriously. I mean what the fuck. Yes Robin is the most mature one but Brook dude… He does look like a complete idiot, and acts like one but I still think that he is mature.

Brook was the person Nami beat up right after reuniting because he was being immature, right? I'm pretty sure she said that specifically.

mcdreamy

@Bulletproof:

This post was a joke, right?

Lol just random stuff.

Sabo

@Muah:

Lmao u put sanji and zoro over Usopp. Sanji and zoro are two suicidal assholes that cause bundles of trouble for everyone. Most mature is brooke robin nami Usopp chopper sanji zoro luffy. Brooke may be a little off and inappropriate but when it comes to propriety he is above all the strawhats. He was the only one to properly introduce himself to luffy. He actually thinks of the consequences to his actions. If he had some actual power he'd be the most Fearsome in the crew. Robin is of course mature and to herself. Nami is the obvious next. Usopp is the only voice of reason seeing as he only wants adventure and looks to start as little trouble as possible. The monster trio are tied basically. And franky is dead last. His whole career is based on living frivolously.

….........

Brook? Over Robin?

I like Redspears list. Very accurate.

DaJungKi

Before putting forth a list or an argument it's important to clearly define what "maturity" means. If you are using the definition of being physically/mentally/emotionally fully grown, your list would mainly be based around age, with Chopper being the youngest and Brook the oldest. "Maturity" in this sense does not mean being serious and refined, as Brook is known to make silly undead puns and panty requests. This simply means he has a somewhat juvenile sense of humor.

If you equate maturity with wisdom, then as a poster mentioned above Luffy should not be last on any list. Although he probably ranks the lowest in terms of overall intelligence, as the captain he's made a lot of tough decisions–with his crew in mind. For example, I'd rank Usopp lower because even though he's much more intelligent than Luffy, many of his decisions were motivated by fear and self-preservation, rather than concern for his crewmates.

The SHs are generally a mature bunch because they've all been through incredible hardships, most at a very young age. Therefore, it's difficult to come up with a definitive list but on mine I'd definitely place Robin and Zoro at the top, and Usopp and Chopper at the bottom.

triforcebih

@DaJungKi:

Before putting forth a list or an argument it's important to clearly define what "maturity" means. If you are using the definition of being physically/mentally/emotionally fully grown, your list would mainly be based around age, with Chopper being the youngest and Brook the oldest. "Maturity" in this sense does not mean being serious and refined, as Brook is known to make silly undead puns and panty requests. This simply means he has a somewhat juvenile sense of humor.

If you equate maturity with wisdom, then as a poster mentioned above Luffy should not be last on any list. Although he probably ranks the lowest in terms of overall intelligence, as the captain he's made a lot of tough decisions–with his crew in mind. For example, I'd rank Usopp lower because even though he's much more intelligent than Luffy, many of his decisions were motivated by fear and self-preservation, rather than concern for his crewmates.

The SHs are generally a mature bunch because they've all been through incredible hardships, most at a very young age. Therefore, it's difficult to come up with a definitive list but on mine I'd definitely place Robin and Zoro at the top, and Usopp and Chopper at the bottom.

Yep. That's what I wanted to say too

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

@triforcebih:

Yes Robin is the most mature one but Brook dude… He does look like a complete idiot, and acts like one but I still think that he is mature.

As mature as a rockstar can be.

mcdreamy

A question just occurred to me, If Momonga has haki then how come he never sensed luffy on their way to impel down? If it was Eneru, he would have known instantly. I want the chapter to come out soon so we can answer some more questions about haki.

Reyairia

@Don:

As mature as a 90 year old rockstar can be.

Fixed. P:
16chars

Coruscation

It's usually believed that you can "activate" Color of Observation. Enel just kept it on most of the time, but Momonga would have no reason to since he didn't even begin to suspect that Hancock was hiding someone in her room/beneath her coat.

HTC

@mcdreamy:

A question just occurred to me, If Momonga has haki then how come he never sensed luffy on their way to impel down? If it was Eneru, he would have known instantly. I want the chapter to come out soon so we can answer some more questions about haki.

Maybe he can only use CoA instead of CoO. We know all VAs can use haki but that doesn't mean all can use the same type of haki, no?

Urouge

Yeah Momonga could have just sucked at the mantra side. Rayleigh said that everyone is more suited to one side than the other. The king's class people can probably mostly do all three, though.

Kishido

I think you can have at least both basic hakis with tending to one of them. One of the Boa sisters were using CoO and still was able to hurt Luffy

flandrian15

That's true and that makes me wonder which one Luffy is most gifted in. I know the most obvious choice would be CoC but I hope it isn't and it probably wont be CoO because it was hinted that Coby will be most suited for that type of Haki and I wouldn't want both of them being good at the same thing.

Mr. Sandman

Maybe Boa's cloak is mantra-proof. Sorta like Norla's stomach.

Kishido

I still think the Boa sisters will be the indication for the monster trio

Hancock - CoC
Boa 1 = CoO
Boa 2 = CoA

For the SHs

Luffy = CoC + plus the others. Leaning towards CoC
Zoro = Leaning toward CoO but having CoA as well.
Sanji = leaning toward CoA but having basic CoO as well.

Urouge

I find it to be highly likely that Luffy and Zoro are both CoC users who will be proficient at all 3 colors.

Maki707

I agree with Kishido's list.
Zoro having that king's haki thing…would really demean Luffy having it IMO :/

Coruscation

Nah, Rayleigh had it and he was also… 2nd strongest in his crew. Zoro if anything really seems like a prime candidate to have it - its power is that of intimidation, and how many times have Zoro been said to have an immense "killing aura" or some such? Hell, his very first 'showing' in the manga was to frighten Coby enough to fall backwards down from a wall just by his presence. While we don't know what the requirements are exactly, it certainly wouldn't seem strange for Zoro to gain it, at least not to me.

Kishido

Well Zoro has high chances to have it but for now I doubt it maybe later on. Sanji won't have it or Oda will give him it till the end of the manga to let all of them close. But highly unlikely or Oda will give him some sort of Vegeta moment being raged to be inferiour to Zoro… xD

But it would be also a great opporutunity for a character development of Sanji, not being raged but to live with that after realizing that he don't need it to be strong enough

I stick with my list for now. Zoro and Sanji have both for now with each one leaning towards the one the other doesn't

Later I can see Zoro obtaining CoC as well.