I don't understand the whole "lack of death" hurting OP idea. The fact that death was rare around Luffy made Ace's death, someone that means the world to him, that much worse, I think. Most of the character's have a backstory centered around death, making death that much more influential. I just don't see how more character death could improve the manga at all.
Most Disappointing Thing in One Piece
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I don't think it's the absence of character death that people think is bad, but the fact that Oda writes himself into these situations where characters are either implied to be dead or put into a situation where it is unbelievable that they would survive, and then just brings them back for no other reason than the fact that he doesn't like killing people off. Oda doesn't have to kill a character off, but don't make it seem like they are dead and then pull the carpet out from under us.
If he didn't write himself into situations like Pell or Pagaya(and even nameless fodder now with G5 surviving Smiley's petrifying gas), it wouldn't be a fandom wide rule that we know nobody dies. It kills a lot of the tension because we know Oda can't go through with a death. That's why nobody actually believes that Monet and Vergo are dead and why their "deaths" weren't as powerful as they could have been. All he would have to do is have a scene of Pell distancing himself from the bomb instead of having it go off point blank and then implying his death on a cliffhanger. Then maybe people wouldn't get so mad about it.
I personally don't really care about the lack of death. Actually, I don't particularly want any of the characters to die because I want to see more of them. But yeah, Oda could stick to his "no needless death" policy without having characters seem dead. It's almost contradictory to his reasoning of not wanting to use death as shallow grab at the emotions…
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While I see what you mean, I feel like Monet and Vergo's deaths weren't so powerful because they were simple characters who were used to show the depth of Doflamingo's power and the undying loyalty of his followers, nothing more. Bon Clay's sacrifice(?) in Impel Down is still a very powerful scene, even if it's a cliffhanger. I see the argument with Pell and such, but we've seen the deaths of characters still mean a whole lot, even with some teases. (Tom, Ace, etc.)
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Does anyone here actually think Bon Clay died? When I read that I was like "meh he's still alive just like last time", really took away from that scene for sure. Even if Bon actually did die, the problem is that Oda is perceived as too afraid to kill off his characters coughPellcough, and a lot of the suspense is gone in those scenarios. (seriously though Pell surviving is the shit-stain on the otherwise masterful Alabasta arc)
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There is something wrong with you people.
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I don't think it's the absence of character death that people think is bad, but the fact that Oda writes himself into these situations where characters are either implied to be dead or put into a situation where it is unbelievable that they would survive, and then just brings them back for no other reason than the fact that he doesn't like killing people off. Oda doesn't have to kill a character off, but don't make it seem like they are dead and then pull the carpet out from under us.
If he didn't write himself into situations like Pell or Pagaya(and even nameless fodder now with G5 surviving Smiley's petrifying gas), it wouldn't be a fandom wide rule that we know nobody dies. It kills a lot of the tension because we know Oda can't go through with a death. That's why nobody actually believes that Monet and Vergo are dead and why their "deaths" weren't as powerful as they could have been. All he would have to do is have a scene of Pell distancing himself from the bomb instead of having it go off point blank and then implying his death on a cliffhanger. Then maybe people wouldn't get so mad about it.
I personally don't really care about the lack of death. Actually, I don't particularly want any of the characters to die because I want to see more of them. But yeah, Oda could stick to his "no needless death" policy without having characters seem dead. It's almost contradictory to his reasoning of not wanting to use death as shallow grab at the emotions…
It most certainly is. It's all because Oda wants to cater to little kids and doesn't want to show excessive violence, while on the other hand he wants to show the pivotal moments of death/increase sense danger all around you which is why we get "Oda deaths". You really either need to go through it one way or the other, instead Oda is stuck in between and it's a complete and utter mess story wise. The problem is that even if someone where to die (Monet), you lose a lot of the emotion since you're thinking the entire time that the character is still likely alive even if he pulls the trigger. Ahh looks like Palpitoad93 is right on the money with the Bon Clay reference as well. To me, the story would be much better if he didn't include these "death moments" at all anymore, they are more comedic which in serious situation which isn't a good indication…
I introduced my little sister to the show and she was getting incredibly angry at the amount of fake deaths that happened during Alabasta arc, I had to state several times that that is the arc where Oda does it the most so it won't be as bad in the future. I was trying my hardest to act sad when Pell "died"...
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Does anyone here actually think Bon Clay died? When I read that I was like "meh he's still alive just like last time", really took away from that scene for sure. Even if Bon actually did die, the problem is that Oda is perceived as too afraid to kill off his characters coughPellcough, and a lot of the suspense is gone in those scenarios. (seriously though Pell surviving is the shit-stain on the otherwise masterful Alabasta arc)
I see your point, though I do disagree about the impact of certain characters sacrifices. But, I do agree that Bon Clay is probably just a prisoner in Impel Down.
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it is stated that he is alive
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- Haki.
- Post-timeskip Nami & Robin. It's starting to get better now, but still.
- Punk Hazard arc.
Interesting how I can't think of anything disapointing before timeskip. Nostalgia?
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Does anyone here actually think Bon Clay died? When I read that I was like "meh he's still alive just like last time", really took away from that scene for sure. Even if Bon actually did die, the problem is that Oda is perceived as too afraid to kill off his characters coughPellcough, and a lot of the suspense is gone in those scenarios. (seriously though Pell surviving is the shit-stain on the otherwise masterful Alabasta arc)
Wasn't he confirmed alive in a cover story ?
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Wasn't he confirmed alive in a cover story ?
yes i posted the cover page 2 posts over yours
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Most disappointing thing in One Piece…
Well I have to admit that one of the most disappointing things is... haki. I've been bitching about this once before but honestly I think it drastically simplifies the concept of fighting in OP. One of the biggest reasons I loved (and still do) One Piece so much because it wasn't about power levels or any shit like that, it was about fighting styles and different kind of super powers each of the characters had. I have read the Dragon Ball series trough once and honestly, I was getting actually bored in the end because the fighting was all about being strenght and using energy attacks. Oh and there was something about dying your hair to get stronger or stuff. :getlost: In One Piece, you had to find a weakness on your enemies power to win him! But then everything changed when haki came along! Maybe I wouldn't mind so much about sensing your enemies presence and being able to hit logias (tough even that makes the fighting a little too simple), but when you're able to break a freaking seastone club (witch is supposed to be harder than diamond) with a bamboo stick, just because you have a stronger haki, it's just ridicuolus. It's not like I'm gonna stop reading One Piece because of it, but honestly, it's kinda… lame. I was much more entertained when Luffy used water or his rubber body or something like that to fight.
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@Light:
Most disappointing thing in One Piece…
Well I have to admit that one of the most disappointing things is... haki. I've been bitching about this once before but honestly I think it drastically simplifies the concept of fighting in OP. One of the biggest reasons I loved (and still do) One Piece so much because it wasn't about power levels or any shit like that, it was about fighting styles and different kind of super powers each of the characters had. I have read the Dragon Ball series trough once and honestly, I was getting actually bored in the end because the fighting was all about being strenght and using energy attacks. Oh and there was something about dying your hair to get stronger or stuff. :getlost: In One Piece, you had to find a weakness on your enemies power to win him! But then everything changed when haki came along! Maybe I wouldn't mind so much about sensing your enemies presence and being able to hit logias (tough even that makes the fighting a little too simple), but when you're able to break a freaking seastone club (witch is supposed to be harder than diamond) with a bamboo stick, just because you have a stronger haki, it's just ridicuolus. It's not like I'm gonna stop reading One Piece because of it, but honestly, it's kinda… lame. I was much more entertained when Luffy used water or his rubber body or something like that to fight.
when's that happen?
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Vergo Vs. Smoker.
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Smokers jutte only had Seastone on the tip from what I remember.
And Seastone isn't harder than diamond. It's as hard as diamond. Luffy already punched through Seastone in Film Z(non canon). -
I think people need to learn the difference between "disappointing things" and "things I don't like".
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@Monkey:
Nami is bar none the most important person in the entire crew. They would literally all be dead without her.
What are you, some sort of moron who thinks One Piece is the same as Bleach and fighting is all that matters?
Stop your useless bitching and reread the manga if you even remotely have to ask me what I mean by her being the most important person on the crew.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Seriously, stop reading One Piece.
I mean come on, you want Luffy to be some stoic moron, like this is some manga not named "One Piece".
So why are you reading this 71+ volume manga if you don't like even the most basic vibe of the thing.
Bye bye.--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Agreed, you should instead reread the ENTIRE series if you're this clueless about Luffy lol.
LOL look at this guy in love with the manga character, did I say anything about her importance? I didn't I said I don't like her, that has nothing to do with her importance. Sure she guides the ship, but besides that she does nothing but stand around uselessly and provide a plot device. Fuck nami, pretty sure Franky could handle navigation without her.
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LOL look at this guy in love with the manga character, did I say anything about her importance? I didn't I said I don't like her, that has nothing to do with her importance. Sure she guides the ship, but besides that she does nothing but stand around uselessly and provide a plot device. Fuck nami, pretty sure Franky could handle navigation without her.
They'd be dead without her. They'd have been dead long ago before Franky showed up. It's not like Franky knows a thing about the weather.
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LOL look at this guy in love with the manga character, did I say anything about her importance? I didn't I said I don't like her, that has nothing to do with her importance. Sure she guides the ship, but besides that she does nothing but stand around uselessly and provide a plot device. Fuck nami, pretty sure Franky could handle navigation without her.
It is fine to dislike her character, but your reasoning is questionable. I can kind of see why you would find her Buzz Killington tendencies annoying, but you should understand that this is because she serves as a comedic foil (which highlights the comic antics of the rest of the crew).
I'll agree that she doesn't get as many mini-boss fights as the others and that she suffers from "designated girl fight syndrome". Even so, I quite like it that some of the crew members are less combat-oriented than others. It would be boring if every single member fit the same "Me like fighting! Me strong!" mold.
As for Franky being able to navigate the ship without her… She just spent two years studying the unpredictible weather patterns of the New World while Franky was installing nipple lights, dude.
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@•Ace•:
Smokers jutte only had Seastone on the tip from what I remember.
And Seastone isn't harder than diamond. It's as hard as diamond. Luffy already punched through Seastone in Film Z(non canon).jozu is a diamond and haki user, but still lost his right arm… by dofla ?string?
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jozu is a diamond and haki user, but still lost his right arm… by dofla ?string?
I don't remember Jozu losing his arm to Doflamigo. From what I remember, Jozu attacked Crocodile and Doflamingo stopped him from moving using his ability. Jozu was later frozen by Aokiji.
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LOL look at this guy in love with the manga character, did I say anything about her importance? I didn't I said I don't like her, that has nothing to do with her importance. Sure she guides the ship, but besides that she does nothing but stand around uselessly and provide a plot device. Fuck nami, pretty sure Franky could handle navigation without her.
Luffy and Zoro would be sailing around in a circle back in East Blue right now if it weren't for Nami.
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@•Ace•:
I don't remember Jozu losing his arm to Doflamigo. From what I remember, Jozu attacked Crocodile and Doflamingo stopped him from moving using his ability. Jozu was later frozen by Aokiji.
right, forgot about that. my mistake then…
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yeah Nami's definitely important and you'd have to be a dipshit to not see that
Oda makes a point to show stuff like crazy weather and random natural events to highlight how useful she isthings to be disappointed in with Nami could involve, you know, the fact that she has become (visually) a pair of walking tits, or stuff like the Califa fight
anyway, I can't say I'm necessarily disappointed with this, but I am wondering what's going on with a number of the crewmember's goals and dreams
Is it seriously Nami's dream to draw a map of the world? And Chopper's to find a panacea? And Sanji's to discover All Blue??
They NEVER mention this shit. I'm not expecting them to be talking about it constantly, but aside from some questionable joke during Fishman Island, Sanji hasn't talked about All Blue since they entered the Grand Line (over 600 chapters ago!!!). We never see Nami drawing maps or even thinking about such a thing, and I guess Chopper's occasional researches could be devoted to the cause, but the least Oda could do is make it at least somewhat explicit. -
right, forgot about that. my mistake then…
IIRC, he lost his arm when Aokiji froze him. You could look back if you want. I remember his arm breaking off when he hit the ground after being frozen.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
yeah Nami's definitely important and you'd have to be a dipshit to not see that
Oda makes a point to show stuff like crazy weather and random natural events to highlight how useful she isthings to be disappointed in with Nami could involve, you know, the fact that she has become (visually) a pair of walking tits, or stuff like the Califa fight
anyway, I can't say I'm necessarily disappointed with this, but I am wondering what's going on with a number of the crewmember's goals and dreams
Is it seriously Nami's dream to draw a map of the world? And Chopper's to find a panacea? And Sanji's to discover All Blue??
They NEVER mention this shit. I'm not expecting them to be talking about it constantly, but aside from some questionable joke during Fishman Island, Sanji hasn't talked about All Blue since they entered the Grand Line (over 600 chapters ago!!!). We never see Nami drawing maps or even thinking about such a thing, and I guess Chopper's occasional researches could be devoted to the cause, but the least Oda could do is make it at least somewhat explicit.Nami said she wants to draw a map of the world. She has already travelled around the world during the TS. Maybe she started on it off panel? Who knows. I dont understand why Oda would give her such a big task.
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I wouldn't call this the most disappointing thing. But after years of Robin pointedly not having a face fault, this is the pay off. It makes sense given Nico Back-stabbed's background, but I had always thought that the one thing that'd make Robin face fault would be…
I don't know, funnier?
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LOL look at this guy in love with the manga character, did I say anything about her importance? I didn't I said I don't like her, that has nothing to do with her importance. Sure she guides the ship, but besides that she does nothing but stand around uselessly and provide a plot device. Fuck nami, pretty sure Franky could handle navigation without her.
Hi, I'm this guy. And I apparently speed read and skip everything that isn't action sequences, and have somehow missed how Nami is basically de facto captain in terms of directing the energy of the crew, getting everyone organized, and tying all the crazy talk down.
I dunno, steering the ship around at all and being the "rock" of the crew sure isn't important when you're a dumbfuck who jerks off to punches and kicks. -
Nami is the most important character in the current crew survival wise. Lets be honest, if Nami were traded for another high calibre navigator, the Strawhats would get by just fine. Robin is actually the most important character plot wise. Without her, we don't get phonoglyphs/void century/Joyboy's prophecy etc.
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Nami is the most important character in the current crew survival wise. Lets be honest, if Nami were traded for another high calibre navigator, the Strawhats would get by just fine.
Yeah it's not like it was noted that Nami is a genius at navigation when she was sick between Little Garden and Drum or anything like that.
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Ok might as well post what I'm disappointed in, which is pretty obvious I think.
I'm disappointed in Sanji's character after the timeskip. I hope he does something really really stupid so that even Luffy will get fed up with him and they have a big fight, kinda similar to the Usopp and Luffy fight and he temporarily leaves the crew. Then he'll have to change and finally beat a woman.This is totally just what I would like the most, it probably won't happen xD
I just wish Sanji would suffer A LOT and then beat a woman. If he can do that, then I'll be fine with his character again. -
- Haki.
- Post-timeskip Nami & Robin. It's starting to get better now, but still.
- Punk Hazard arc.
Interesting how I can't think of anything disapointing before timeskip. Nostalgia?
Haki has been around since the first chapter, and substantially around since Skypiea so how is Haki post-timeskip in any sense.
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Ok might as well post what I'm disappointed in, which is pretty obvious I think.
I'm disappointed in Sanji's character after the timeskip. I hope he does something really really stupid so that even Luffy will get fed up with him and they have a big fight, kinda similar to the Usopp and Luffy fight and he temporarily leaves the crew. Then he'll have to change and finally beat a woman.This is totally just what I would like the most, it probably won't happen xD
I just wish Sanji would suffer A LOT and then beat a woman. If he can do that, then I'll be fine with his character again.Dude! What's wrong with you?
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@•Ace•:
Dude! What's wrong with you?
No, what's wrong with Sanji?
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No, what's wrong with Sanji?
Thats his personality. Oda already commented on this and he said Sanji can't hit women. For you to want a character to beat women is pretty harsh.
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@•Ace•:
Thats his personality. Oda already commented on this and he said Sanji can't hit women. For you to want a character to beat women is pretty harsh.
I'm so glad we're here to have you worry for killer secret agents over six hundred times stronger than the average soldier like poor helpless Califa. :(
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@•Ace•:
Thats his personality. Oda already commented on this and he said Sanji can't hit women. For you to want a character to beat women is pretty harsh.
I didn't mind him before the timeskip, I actually liked him (still my least favorite Strawhat though). But it's pretty obvious that he's even worse with women now and I really think something will have to happen to him to give him a wake up call.
And how is beating women harsh when they're evil and if he didn't he could die? What. -
I didn't mind him before the timeskip, I actually liked him (still my least favorite Strawhat though). But it's pretty obvious that he's even worse with women now and I really think something will have to happen to him to give him a wake up call.
And how is beating women harsh when they're evil and if he didn't he could die? What.You should read what he says to Nami in EL.
I'm talking about you. -
@•Ace•:
You should read what he says to Nami in EL.
I'm talking about you.I know what he said to Nami, doesn't change the fact that he's getting him and the whole crew in danger because of this. It doesn't have to be so extreme. He's not a gentleman anymore and I'm pretty sure he's supposed to be.
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I know what he said to Nami, doesn't change the fact that he's getting him and the whole crew in danger because of this. It doesn't have to be so extreme. He's not a gentleman anymore and I'm pretty sure he's supposed to be.
But there are other people in the crew that could handle it for him. He's not the only one you know. Luffy, being the idiot that he is, is also harmful to the crew. There's no point in having Sanji hit a women if someone else can do it for him.
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@•Ace•:
You should read what he says to Nami in EL.
I'm talking about you.What kind of sexist idiot dumbass wouldn't hit let alone attack at all, a female combatant in a life and death scenario.
If you were in WW2 would you "politely" ignore the sniper blowing the heads off your entire unit. Because chances are it would be a chick on the other of that barrel lol.
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@•Ace•:
But there are other people in the crew that could handle it for him. He's not the only one you know. Luffy, being the idiot that he is, is also harmful to the crew. There's no point in having Sanji hit a women if someone else can do it for him.
Not when he's alone, like with Kalifa and Violet.
He should get out of that whole chivalry thing just enough to not be willing to die before hurting a woman at least -
@Monkey:
What kind of sexist idiot dumbass wouldn't hit let alone attack at all, a female combatant in a life and death scenario.
If you were in WW2 would you "politely" ignore the sniper blowing the heads off your entire unit. Because chances are it would be a chick on the other of that barrel lol.
Read the Kalifa fight. Then read what Oda says about Sanji in the SBS. Sexists? Your just being an ass.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Not when he's alone, like with Kalifa and Violet.
He should get out of that whole chivalry thing just enough to not be willing to die before hurting a woman at leastThats preference. Why should you try to change a character because you don't agree with how he his? With that said, I'm not trying to change yours nor will I do that. Later.
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@•Ace•:
Read the Kalifa fight. Then read what Oda says about Sanji in the SBS. Sexists? Your just being an ass.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Thats preference. Why should you try to change a character because you don't agree with how he his? With that said, I'm not trying to change yours nor will I do that. Later.
That's not changing his character. Fighting against a woman before he gets killed wouldn't be a bad step for him.
I've been waiting for his character development forever and I think that would be the best thing that could happen. -
@•Ace•:
Read the Kalifa fight. Then read what Oda says about Sanji in the SBS. Sexists? Your just being an ass.
Technically it's still sexism. A Google search identifies it as "benevolent sexism".
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That's not changing his character. Fighting against a woman before he gets killed wouldn't be a bad step for him.
I've been waiting for his character development forever and I think that would be the best thing that could happen.Sanji did try to fight Kalifa. He did defend himself, but he just couldn't hurt her. Yes, you are trying to change his character because you don't like how he doesn't hit women.
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@•Ace•:
Read the Kalifa fight.
Ah yes, I remember the Califa fight. The killer secret agent who was over sixty stronger than a normal (male) soldier, who was delaying the rescue of Sanji's comrade, Nico Robin. Who was on her way to Marineford to be tortured for years before being beheaded.
That's what you're trying to justify with some moronic bullshit about "not fighting women ever".
YOU reread the Water7/Eneis Lobby arc lol.Sanji did try to fight Kalifa. He did defend himself, but he just couldn't hurt her.
lol at you taking that dead literally.
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I agree with Elitsu through I don't like how Sanji never hits women either. Post timeskip he seems to have taken a step down as a character, in my personal opinion.
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@Monkey:
Ah yes, I remember the Califa fight. The killer secret agent who was over sixty stronger than a normal (male) soldier, who was delaying the rescue of Sanji's comrade, Nico Robin. Who was on her way to Marineford to be tortured for years before being beheaded.
That's what you're trying to justify with some moronic bullshit about "not fighting women ever".
YOU reread the Water7/Eneis Lobby arc lol.lol at you taking that dead literally.
And what's worse is there are people like you who try to change others because you don't understand why they do the things they do.
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@•Ace•:
And what's worse is there are people like you who try to change others because you don't understand why they do the things they do.
So you WOULD ignore the female sniper in the tower massacring your unit as happened irl in several wars.
Because literally: vagina.There is literally not a single good thing about doing that or any excuse at all.
What, are you deathly vulnerable to cooties? -
@•Ace•:
Sanji did try to fight Kalifa. He did defend himself, but he just couldn't hurt her. Yes, you are trying to change his character because you don't like how he doesn't hit women.
He was only defending himself, he wasn't trying to hurt her. If he did, the same thing would've happened with Jabra. Sanji could have easily beaten her.