Did anyone else get the reference? 
It's the TeamFourStar Thread with DBZ Abridged and Pokemon things
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And you've reached the wrong conclusions that ignore what is actually there.
Here, I'll make it easy for you.
You clearly SEE the reason, you just don't want to admit it because it's super dumb and has been for twenty years.
It's a dragonball movie. They weren't putting in metaphors and foreshadowing and trying to be deep. They were making stupid dumb action movies for the kids.
So far, all you've done is presume things about me. I'm wrong because I'm trying to make Broly look cooler, I'm wrong because I don't want to admit it, etc, etc. If you don't actually have thoughful arguments about the actual movies, there's no point in even responding to you. If you want, read the topic I linked you to and either agree or disagree.
Btw, if you really think that Dragon Ball can't have any degree of foreshadowing, or can't establish parallels or anything of the sort just because it's Dragon Ball, you should check out Movie 5ā¦ Cooler lets baby Goku go, calling Freeza soft because he missed him... And then, when Goku defeats Cooler, he thinks back to what he said at the time, the scene is repeated and Cooler says that Freeza wasn't the only one that was soft. Just because Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball, it doesn't mean that there can't exist stuff like that sometimes.
But why didn't he get set off just being by Vegeta? Why keep showing the scene of Goku crying? To me it was always shown that the sound and the name set Broly off. Goku wasn't really in fight mode when they first met as adults and Goku wasn't shown as a powerful baby iirc. So the fighting instinct thing doesn't really make sense to me.
Because Vegeta isn't strong enough. Goku is stronger and strong enough to cause that reaction on Broly. There are various examples of characters noticing when other characters are strong or are hiding power even when they aren't in battle mode in Dragon Ball, so I don't think that's troublesome, especially since it's stated to be instintive.
The crying scene is there for two reasons:
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as Paragus says 23 minutes and 1 second into the movie: "Broly and Kakarot were born on the same day, one right after the other. If it is Kakarotā¦", "Damn, the threads of destiny have once again intertwined here, have they? The two infants, born on the same day and laid down in adjoining beds.." . In other words, the scene is there to give a sense of fate to their battle.
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just like the two unknown saiyans say, baby Goku is able to find a way to disturb baby Broly despite being much weaker. That's exactly what happens in their battle, with Goku, who is much weaker, managing to find a way to affect and defeat Broly. That's why the scene is repeated as Broly is defeated, to fully establish the parallel, which also links to the alluded fateful nature of their battle.
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Oh, not this again.
I remember debating this with you at Kanzenshuu. Ok, seriously, Robbyās already got this nailed down but seriously:
Evidence It's "Goku's Power" that set him off:
- One Throwaway line from Paragas that is framed more as a question than a statement of fact.
"Could it be Kakarot? Does this mean that Broly's instints as a Saiyan have been awakened by Kakarot's power and he is starting to overcome the limits of my control?"
IE: Paragas doesn't KNOW that's what's happening and is just trying to rationalize it as best he can.
Evidence the Crying was the cause:
- The Movie flashes back to it at least 3 times. Why focus on it if it's so unimportant?
- Gohan can go Super Saiyan so clearly this must take place after Goku and Gohan's training in the chamber of spirit and time but before Goku dies at the Cell games.
Gohan should be more powerful than Goku at this point.
Why does he not focus on Gohan? - To underscore this, he devolves into only saying "Kakarott" by the end of the film (in the JPN version, I hear he talks more in the dub)
If "Powerful Guy" is what set him off, why SPECIFICALLY does he keep saying Goku's Saiyan name? Why not "BATTLE!" or "FIGHT!" or "KILL!" or something? - Goten crying in Movie 10 triggers a PTSD Style Flashback
If the Crying isn't what did it, then why the hell did they include this? The same writer AND director worked on both movies, so you can't make the excuse it was a later person screwing up the character.
This was a case of a character having a cool design/power set but being completely dumb in every other conceivable way and fans that really like that cool aspect wanted REALLY bad to make the dumb aspect not dumb and are rationalizing it and making head canon.
If you want your personal headcanon to be that it was somehow Broliās power and the crying was focused on for no reason because the writer and director are bad storytellers, then be my guest, but that is NOT how the movie presents it AT ALL.
Thereās no difference between this and the popular theory that the reason Gandalf didnāt just fly to Mt. Doom with the Eagles at the start of Lord of the Rings is that: He actually did, that was the plan, and he just got dragged down by the Balrog before he could tell anybody.
It fits really well and it fixes one of the biggest plotholes in the original story, but there is no evidence that either Tolkein or the filmmakers of the movie version intended this to be the case, so itās simply a fan explanation for a stupid plothole.
If you want to make the argument that your interpretation is the āIntendedā way youāre supposed to interpret the movie and that it WAS just poor execution from the writer and director, you need something more substantial than a theory that seems to work for you in order to claim this was the case.
Again, for example, when Avengers: Age of Ultron came out, thereās a part where Black Widow talks to Bruce Banner about how she was trained from near childhood to be a killer and they even went so far as to remove her baby-making parts to make her a more efficient killer. The idea being, a kid could be a distraction from killing, so taking that possibility away from her is good for assasining. She goes on to say this makes her a monster.
Now, if you really pay attention, itās obvious sheās not saying āI canāt have babies, therefore Iām a monsterā sheās saying āIām less a person, more a product, they molded me into being a perfect killer, even going so far as to mutilate me and remove my reproductive organs, and that makes me a monsterā
But the scene was handled poorly. Maybe it was editing, maybe it was just the order of the lines, but it came off to a lot of people like she was saying āI canāt have babies, so Iām a monsterā.LUCKILY, we have interviews later with the writer/director Joss Whedon where he clarified the intent of the scene. So we know exactly how the creator intended you to take the scene despite the poor execution.
As far as Iām aware, the same has never happened for Broli, and the creator of Broli is pretty proud of the character. Heās done interviews talking about how great he thinks the character is and how proud he was of his work, but I have never seen ONE interview, not ONE where he says anything to the equivalent that the crying was NOT what set off Broli.
At best, you can say Gokuās power exacerbated the situation and made it worse than it otherwise would have been, but the crying was the primary element the filmmakers wanted you to focus on since they focused on it so often and so much.
I mean, if this had been a mistake of some kind, why add fuel to the fire YEARS later when doing Movie 10 with the Goten crying scene?
At the end of the day, if you want to say āIt can be interpreted this way and this way itās not Stupidā then more power to you, go ahead and interpret it that way till youāre blue in the face, tell other people and spread the word and maybe other people who like Broli will latch onto your headcanon and like it.
But stop acting like everybody has been āGetting it wrongā all this time and that your interpretation is somehow the only correct way to do it and weāre all wrong for not ignoring the mountain of evidence the film presents that the crying scene was significant to Broliās hatred of Goku.
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- One Throwaway line from Paragas that is framed more as a question than a statement of fact.
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Did anyone else get the reference?
http://www.macrochan.org/images/B/E/BEAEQ6FSMPQKSEPKPWIMNFGRJ26JUERV.jpeg
Kids these days do not know what a superhero is!>:C
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Did anyone else know that they created each film's title first before developing the plot?
Robby I think you need to give rereboy a break. He does raise some valid points. Although you might not be able to see it at first the fate and parallels are indeed intentional, but yes they could have been emphasized more to make the plot seem less silly.
As a feminist I'm pleased to say we've been given a female Super Saiyan in DBSuper (Who looks like Broly.) Broly had really good reception so it wouldn't surprise me if they are linkedā¦ semi-canon? Probably just lazy character design but we'll have to see.
EDIT: Actually I'm having second thoughts, reading Demon Rin's evidence it's clear that Broly was a triggered baby and took out all of his negative energy on Goku as an adult. The parallels and nods are do raise some questions, but nothing to get too worked up about.
We might need some definitive Daizenshuu references.
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IE: Paragas doesn't KNOW that's what's happening and is just trying to rationalize it as best he can.
It's the only stated explanation in the movie for his reaction and all of Paragus' lines in that scene are expositional in nature, meaning that they are feeding information to the audience. You can, obviously, ignore it by saying that he doesn't know what he is talking about and saying that the lines aren't expositional in nature but I don't agree with that or see the point in them feeding incorrect information to the audience.
The Movie flashes back to it at least 3 times. Why focus on it if it's so unimportant?
The topic I linked to explains the point of the scene and its repetitions, and I've also done it already in this topic.
- Gohan can go Super Saiyan so clearly this must take place after Goku and Gohan's training in the chamber of spirit and time but before Goku dies at the Cell games.
Gohan should be more powerful than Goku at this point.
Why does he not focus on Gohan?
All movies exist outside of the manga's continuity. You are merely presuming that Gohan is stronger based on the manga continuity (that the movie is not part of) when everything in the movie points towards Goku being stronger.
- To underscore this, he devolves into only saying "Kakarott" by the end of the film (in the JPN version, I hear he talks more in the dub)
He only "devolves" in movie 10. In movie 8, he keeps talking in full sentences with meaning until the end.
If "Powerful Guy" is what set him off, why SPECIFICALLY does he keep saying Goku's Saiyan name? Why not "BATTLE!" or "FIGHT!" or "KILL!" or something?
In movie 10 he is obsessed with Goku and filled with hate because Goku punched a hole in his chest, almost killed him and caused him to remain frozen and comatose with serious injury for years. The experience has apparently left him unhinged, which is why he can't even talk normally anymore, while in movie 8 he actually talked.
- Goten crying in Movie 10 triggers a PTSD Style Flashback
If the Crying isn't what did it, then why the hell did they include this? The same writer AND director worked on both movies, so you can't make the excuse it was a later person screwing up the character.
Goten's crying does indeed seem to trigger Broly's memories and at that point he does seem to remember baby Goku, quickly followed by what happened to him at the end of movie 8. However, despite this being the first clear instance in which Broly seems to remember baby Goku, it doesn't mean that he remembered it in movie 8 or that it was his motivation in movie 8 or in movie 10. In movie 8, there's a stated, expositional explanation for it, and for movie 10, the movie itself points towards the events at the end of movie 8 being what has caused Broly's behavior to change (devolving into one word, fully obsessive behavior, etc) and his motivation.
This was a case of a character having a cool design/power set but being completely dumb in every other conceivable way and fans that really like that cool aspect wanted REALLY bad to make the dumb aspect not dumb and are rationalizing it and making head canon.
Broly doesn't cease to be dumb just because the stated reason for his reaction towards Goku in the movie is that Goku's power stimulated his instincts instead of baby Goku's crying doing it. Also, no fan made up Paragus' lines.
If you want your personal headcanon to be that it was somehow Broliās power and the crying was focused on for no reason because the writer and director are bad storytellers, then be my guest, but that is NOT how the movie presents it AT ALL.
As I said, nobody made up Paragus' lines. If the movie doesn't present it at all, what are his lines doing there? Like I said, you can ignore them if you want and/or assume that they are feeding incorrect information to the audience but I don't agree with that.
It fits really well and it fixes one of the biggest plotholes in the original story, but there is no evidence that either Tolkein or the filmmakers of the movie version intended this to be the case, so itās simply a fan explanation for a stupid plothole.
There is evidence of this being the case because Paragus flat-out states so in what seems to be expositional lines. Even if we want to ignore them, they are still there. Goku's crying being the cause for Broly's madness, though? Never stated.
If you want to make the argument that your interpretation is the āIntendedā way youāre supposed to interpret the movie and that it WAS just poor execution from the writer and director, you need something more substantial than a theory that seems to work for you in order to claim this was the case.
The arguments provided are linked to actual quotes and events in the movie and find their support in them. They aren't dreamed up.
At the end of the day, if you want to say āIt can be interpreted this way and this way itās not Stupidā then more power to you, go ahead and interpret it that way till youāre blue in the face, tell other people and spread the word and maybe other people who like Broli will latch onto your headcanon and like it.
But stop acting like everybody has been āGetting it wrongā all this time and that your interpretation is somehow the only correct way to do it and weāre all wrong for not ignoring the mountain of evidence the film presents that the crying scene was significant to Broliās hatred of Goku.
I never once stated that people can't think whatever they like. However, looking at the movies, I don't find enough support for the notion that Goku's crying made Broly mad, even though I eventually found evidence of Broly apparently remembering baby Goku, even if briefly in movie 10. That's what the topic is about and that's why there are arguments in it and not just a line saying "errr you are wrong".
Anyone is welcome to disagree and debate the topic using their own arguments.
If you think that I somehow devalued other people's opinions or interpretation, I assure you that that was never my intention and I have no problem apologizing to anyone who has felt I have done so.
- Gohan can go Super Saiyan so clearly this must take place after Goku and Gohan's training in the chamber of spirit and time but before Goku dies at the Cell games.
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The really great part about DBZA (Broly) is that whichever is true, their show still works ^^
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As someone who loves the 8th movie I just want to say three things:
1-Yes. Broly gets triggered by baby Goku cry and that alone becomes his obsesion. Its very clear and repeated over and over again in the movie.
2- He is a very very dumb character even for DB standars
3- Its also very cool to see him fighting as a berserk super saiyan, a Hulk on steorids where only his fixation on Goku stops him from destroying the whole galaxy (this was decades before Beerus and the others gods of destruction)
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@statu:
The really great part about DBZA (Broly) is that whichever is true, their show still works ^^
That was never in question :)
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Can't believe we're still having this debate in 2017
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@Purple:
Can't believe we're still having this debate in 2017
Cheer up Purps. We'll have oh so many more pointless debates to look forward to this year.
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@Purple:
Can't believe we're still having this debate in 2017
Next up: can Broly beat Arale??????
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As we see time and time again, Saiyans crave and basically live for challenges and to fight strong guys. More than once Goku put the world in potential danger just because of that (when he let Piccolo go, when he let Vegeta live, when he tried to let Freeza go, etc). Therefore, it makes perfect sense for a strong guy to also stimulate Broly's instincts.
ā¦..not more than seeing Vegeta ("Hey! This guy's father tried to kill me!") or Goku ("hey! this dude cried a lot and I hated that!") and gettiing mad for specific reasons.
Rin and Robby laid it all out. The Paragus line was more conjecture than anything else.
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I never once stated that people can't think whatever they like.
Oh?
Even though I love TeamFourStart, a great deal of the criticism they included is based on misinterpretations of the actual Broly movie, as we can read about here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37309
Ok, but anyway:
However, looking at the movies, I don't find enough support for the notion that Goku's crying made Broly mad, even though I eventually found evidence of Broly apparently remembering baby Goku, even if briefly in movie 10. That's what the topic is about and that's why there are arguments in it and not just a line saying "errr you are wrong".
Here's the thing.
You are in the EXTREME minority.
The interpretation TFS uses in the movie is how practically everybody read into the scene in the original film.
Paragas may have been right and Goku's power may have made things worse, but absolutely everything else shows the Crying was, at bare minimum, a major mitigating factor in Broli going nuts and attacking Goku.
Hell, the argument can be made that Paragas' "Goku's power" line only applies to why Broli broke out of the mind control and not why he was focussing on Goku afterwards.
Regardless, the way the movie presents it, it can be one of these things (Crying) or both of these things (Crying + Power) but the movie makes too big a deal of the crying for it NOT to be a factor.
So you're not necessarily wrong there. Paragas' line only says the power is a factor, it doesn't refute the crying part.
YOU read the crying to be foreshadowing and a metaphor, pretty much everbody else read it to be the main thing that triggered Broli.
I mean, look here:
As someone who loves the 8th movie I just want to say three things:
1-Yes. Broly gets triggered by baby Goku cry and that alone becomes his obsesion. Its very clear and repeated over and over again in the movie.
See? This isn't even just a whole bunch of people who want to hate on Broli choosing to believe this. Even people who LIKED The movie, by and large, took the crying at face value to be, at least a very big part of why Broli goes nuts.
You have to accept then, that there's one of two things going on:
A: This is just your interpretation of facts and nobody else's is any more or less valid. This is just you reading into it a certain way, and nothing more as the movie isn't explicit that the crying wasn't a huge factor.
B: You are right about the creators' original intent, but they did a very VERY poor job of executing it.
If it's A: The common interpretation is not necessarily "Wrong" and you should stop calling it "misinformation" and having a knee-jerk reaction anytime someone mentions it.
If it's B: It's on the filmmakers to own up to this and explain in an interview what the intent was. The fact that no such interview exists and that the exact same creative team continued to do things in Movie 10 that add fuel to the "Crying is what upset Broli" fire casts serious doubt on this.
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ā¦..not more than seeing Vegeta ("Hey! This guy's father tried to kill me!") or Goku ("hey! this dude cried a lot and I hated that!") and gettiing mad for specific reasons.
Rin and Robby laid it all out. The Paragus line was more conjecture than anything else.
Like I said, I'm not stopping anyone from having their own opinions. I just explained what I think.
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@Purple:
Can't believe we're still having this debate in 2017
It's slightly less depressing than Trump ruining the world, soā¦
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Can we not have a normal discussion about Dragon Ball Abridged without everything being ruined by Trump? That's depressing.
I don't think there would be a mention of a 'bad 2017' if Bernie was in. At least Abridged is still golden.
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Oh?
Ok, but anyway:
Okā¦ IMO, a great deal of the criticism they included is based on misinterpretations of the actual Broly movie. I wasn't trying to say that people had to agree with me just because I happen to think that the movie was trying to say something other than what they think it was trying to say. Obviously, they can disagree with me and think that they aren't misinterpretations while I believe they are misinterpretations.
Anyway, to anyone who has truly felt somehow devalued because of that, like I said, I apologize.
Here's the thing.
You are in the EXTREME minority.
I won't suddenly think something different or see different things in the movie depending on whether the majority of people agree with me or not. And I hope you won't either because majority and minority shouldn't have anything to do with it.
The interpretation TFS uses in the movie is how practically everybody read into the scene in the original film.
No debate here.
Paragas may have been right and Goku's power may have made things worse, but absolutely everything else shows the Crying was, at bare minimum, a major mitigating factor in Broli going nuts and attacking Goku.
Like I've argued, in movie 8 it's not even demonstrated that Broly remembers baby Goku and there's a stated expositional explanation for why Broly reacts that way that doesn't imply he remembers it or that Goku's cry drove him mad, so I don't agree. I'm not saying that it's not possible to interpret things that way, mind you, I'm just saying that I didn't find actual support in the movie demonstrating that to be the case, while I found support for an explanation that doesn't mention or imply it.
Hell, the argument can be made that Paragas' "Goku's power" line only applies to why Broli broke out of the mind control and not why he was focussing on Goku afterwards.
Why would anyone think that? Paragus states that he was breaking his mind control because Goku's power stimulated his instincts. It doesn't make much sense to me to think that Broly goes after Goku for another reason after that when no other reason is actually stated.
Regardless, the way the movie presents it, it can be one of these things (Crying) or both of these things (Crying + Power) but the movie makes too big a deal of the crying for it NOT to be a factor.
The crying scene is a big deal for the storytelling of movie 8, just like the scene with Cooler letting baby Goku go and saying that Freeza was soft and then thinking back to that and repeating the scene as Goku is defeating Cooler is important to the storytelling of movie 5. But I see no reason to think that it's important for the actual motivation of Broly within the movie. That motivation is already established by Paragus and didn't really include it.
So you're not necessarily wrong there. Paragas' line only says the power is a factor, it doesn't refute the crying part.
Sure, but it doesn't support it either and neither does anything else. For me to think that something is true I have to find sufficient support for it within the work I'm analyzing, and I simply didn't find it. I found other reasons for the crying flashback to be there, but I didn't find support for it to be part of Broly's motivation. For the record, I'm also not saying that you are objectively wrongā¦ at the end of the day, this is all subjective and I'm merely saying what I think about the issue. Like I said, I'm not telling anyone how to think nor am I trying to belittle anyone.
YOU read the crying to be foreshadowing and a metaphor, pretty much everbody else read it to be the main thing that triggered Broli.
I mean, look here:
See? This isn't even just a whole bunch of people who want to hate on Broli choosing to believe this. Even people who LIKED The movie, by and large, took the crying at face value to be, at least a very big part of why Broli goes nuts.
Once again, I don't think that majority/minority means anything. I don't control what others think and how they view things and they don't control me.
You have to accept then, that there's one of two things going on:
A: This is just your interpretation of facts and nobody else's is any more or less valid. This is just you reading into it a certain way, and nothing more as the movie isn't explicit that the crying wasn't a huge factor.
I never tried to say that I'm more "valid" that anyone else or better than anyone else. I'm not. Obviously, like everyone else, I believe that what I think is correct (otherwise I wouldn't think that way) but that doesn't mean that I think that I'm worth more than anyone else.
B: You are right about the creators' original intent, but they did a very VERY poor job of executing it.
I didn't talk about the execution being good or bad. Obviously, it could have been much better, the movie isn't a masterpiece of anime or filmmaking.
If it's A: The common interpretation is not necessarily "Wrong" and you should stop calling it "misinformation" and having a knee-jerk reaction anytime someone mentions it.
I didn't have a knee-jerk reaction to it. I find the subject mildly interesting and after TFS's movie I thought it was worthwhile to write a topic about it, examining the support within the movie for the prevalent opinion. So I did, and wrote an extensive topic with arguments about it and I shared the topic here, mentioning some of my conclusions right away (namely that I don't think that the prevalent opinion is what the movie was trying to say). As mentioned, with that I wasn't trying to say that people have to agree with me.
If it's B: It's on the filmmakers to own up to this and explain in an interview what the intent was. The fact that no such interview exists and that the exact same creative team continued to do things in Movie 10 that add fuel to the "Crying is what upset Broli" fire casts serious doubt on this.
It does make it clear that Broly was able to remember baby Goku while he was frozen, but even in movie 10 I didn't find support for the crying to be part of Broly's motivation. What seems to be Broly's motivation in that movie is what he suffered at the end of movie 8 thanks to Goku which justifies why he acts differently than he did in movie 8. A lack of interviews doesn't mean anything either way, imo. I also don't think that movie 10 contradicts movie 8 because Broly remembering baby Goku while frozen in a comatose state thanks to Goten's remarkbly similar cry doesn't mean that he remembered it before then or that the crying is his motivation compared to the final events of movie 8 which justify Broly's different behavior.
It's slightly less depressing than Trump ruining the world, soā¦
I don't see why a civilized debate with though-out arguments should be considered depressing, even if we have no interest in it. Let alone be comparable to Trump :vomit:
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Their criticisms were based on what's there, and are the opinion the majority of the audience comes away with after watching the movie, especially in the Japanese version.
Your defenses of the film and the criticisms aren't. You may be correct, but if you are, the movie, and its follow ups, failed spectacularly to make your points.
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When you refer to a particular interpretation as a "Misinterpretation" that immediately implies you think interpreting it that way is "Wrong" in some way.
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Their criticisms were based on what's there, and are the opinion the majority of the audience comes away with after watching the movie, especially in the Japanese version.
Like I said, majority/minority doesn't mean anything. I made my own mind about the issue after seeing the movies. What the majority of people thought or didn't think was obviously irrelevant, as it should be. Someone who bases what he thinks/believes depending on the majority is not using his own mind.
Your defenses of the film and the criticisms aren't.
Paragus, for example, literally states the lines I quoted, so I believe they are based on what's there.
You may be correct, but if you are, the movie, and its follow ups, failed spectacularly to make your points.
After movie 8, Broly has very clear and definite reasons to hate Goku and even be obsessed with him (namely the fact that Goku punched a hole in his chest, almost killed him and made him spend years frozen and wounded). The original reasons for Broly's reaction to Goku only exist in movie 8.
ā- Update From New Post Merge ---
When you refer to a particular interpretation as a "Misinterpretation" that immediately implies you think interpreting it that way is "Wrong" in some way.
Whenever we disagree with someone, we always think that we are correct and that the person we are disagreeing with is incorrect. If we thought we weren't correct, we wouldn't think that way. However, that doesn't mean that we believe we are better or worth more than anyone else. There's a very important distinction between the two situations.
So, if I believe a movie is trying to say something and someone interprets something else, I will think that that person has misinterpreted the movie. That doesn't mean, however, that I believe that I'm worth more than that person, or even that it's impossible for me to be wrong.
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Like I said, majority/minority doesn't mean anything. I made my own mind about the issue after seeing the movies. What the majority of people thought or didn't think was obviously irrelevant, as it should be. Someone who bases what he thinks/believes depending on the majority is not using his own mind.
Literally nobody here is doing this, and the way you're saying it here makes it seem like you're calling us stupid.
Your point that the Minority/Majority opinion doesn't necessarily dictate what is truly right or wrong, but in a work of fiction, a certain amount of everything is based on interpretation.
The entire crux of this comes from you interpreting all the crying scenes they show repeatedly as a metaphor. The majority of everybody else took these scenes at face value.
Because these are interpretations, neither is objectively right or wrong. An interpretation can't be objectively right or wrong. The only way you can have an objective "Right" or "Wrong" when interpreting art is asking the artist (in this case the director and writer) what their intent was, and even then there are people who will argue with you that alternative interpretations are still valid.Saying the Majority interpreted a certain way does not make the majority instantly right, but the majority interpreting it that way DOES speak towards how the material was presented to the viewer.
Basically: If the Majority are interpreting it this way, then WHY are they interpreting it that way? It typically means that it was presented to the viewer in such a way that caused this.
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Literally nobody here is doing this, and the way you're saying it here makes it seem like you're calling us stupid.
What the heckā¦? I was explaining why I don't think people should let majority influence what they think. Why would you take it as an insult? It seems to me that you are going out of your way to assume the worst in regards to what I write.
Your point that the Minority/Majority opinion doesn't necessarily dictate what is truly right or wrong, but in a work of fiction, a certain amount of everything is based on interpretation.
The entire crux of this comes from you interpreting all the crying scenes they show repeatedly as a metaphor. The majority of everybody else took these scenes at face value.
Because these are interpretations, neither is objectively right or wrong. An interpretation can't be objectively right or wrong. The only way you can have an objective "Right" or "Wrong" when interpreting art is asking the artist (in this case the director and writer) what their intent was, and even then there are people who will argue with you that alternative interpretations are still valid.Saying the Majority interpreted a certain way does not make the majority instantly right, but the majority interpreting it that way DOES speak towards how the material was presented to the viewer.
Basically: If the Majority are interpreting it this way, then WHY are they interpreting it that way? It typically means that it was presented to the viewer in such a way that caused this.
At most, that should only be relevant as a argument in regards to the execution of the movie if we actually know for sure what the authors wanted to say (thanks to an interview or something like that).
It shouldn't be relevant for what we actually think about the the movie, like I've already talked about. Majority/minority should be irrelevant for that.
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Broly sucks
girl broly is cooler already
Set Art by Daily Rowlet -
Complicating things since 2009.
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Set Art by Daily Rowlet
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Sees lots of posts in DBZ Abridged thread
Oh boy! A new episode so soon after Broly movie?? That's awesome!!!
looks in thread
ohā¦...
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It's not about being more badass, more stupid, more cool, disliking Broly or liking Broly. It's about what actually is in the actual movie. I've analyzed the movie and reached my conclusions based on what is actually there. I'm not saying that you have to agree but if you want to disagree do so with arguments also based on the movie(s).
You seem hyper-focused on dialogue, and seem to forget or rather are in denial about the existence of visual storytellingā¦.in an animated film.
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If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life
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Don't forget BROLY IX: BROLY TAKES WEST CITY
and BROLY X (YOU KNOW, THE ONE IN SPACE)I can't wait for Janemba vs. Broly.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
I can't wait for Janemba vs. Broly.
Is that scheduled to come out before or after F.V.C? It'll be sweet to see Cooler fighting the Freeza Queen.
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Even though I love TeamFourStart, a great deal of the criticism they included is based on misinterpretations of the actual Broly movie, as we can read about here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37309
A great deal of criticism was misinterpretations? It's not really a misinterpretation, it's what the movie conveyed, and his terrible motivation was just one aspect of the character they criticized.
They also took shots at Broly being entirely defined entirely by his power level, him devolving into a brain-dead idiot who can only say a single word, his fan base that does nothing but gush over the character, the super edgy one-liners, and just being such an obnoxious character that the cast thinks any other movie villain would be preferable to him. I imagine they'll probably tackle the overexposure aspect in the next two Broly films. Overall though, this one was largely them slamming Broly, whether in the underlying context or them just stating it flat out. Still did a good job making this into a quality episode, I liked Super 13 more, but I think this was one of their better movie specials.
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@Great:
A great deal of criticism was misinterpretations? It's not really a misinterpretation, it's what the movie conveyed, and his terrible motivation was just one aspect of the character they criticized.
They also took shots at Broly being entirely defined entirely by his power level, him devolving into a brain-dead idiot who can only say a single word, his fan base that does nothing but gush over the character, the super edgy one-liners, and just being such an obnoxious character that the cast thinks any other movie villain would be preferable to him. I imagine they'll probably tackle the overexposure aspect in the next two Broly films. Overall though, this one was largely them slamming Broly, whether in the underlying context or them just stating it flat out. Still did a good job making this into a quality episode, I liked Super 13 more, but I think this was one of their better movie specials.
As I've said, I don't think that the movie was trying to say baby Goku's crying was Broly's motivation. His motivation was spelled out to the audience by Paragus in expositional lines and the crying flashback was important for the storytelling and background of the movie, not Broly's motivation, just like the flashback in movie 5 about Cooler letting baby Goku go and the repetition of that scene as Cooler was being defeated was important for the storytelling of that movie. The topic I linked to goes into further detail about that.
That being said, it's perfectly fine if you don't agree with what I said. I was just stating what I think, I'm not telling anyone how to think.
@Monkey:
You seem hyper-focused on dialogue, and seem to forget or rather are in denial about the existence of visual storytellingā¦.in an animated film.
I didn't ignore the visual elements. I just happen to think that the movie's visual elements and their use, namely the crying flashback, weren't meant to signify Broly's motivation, but rather to build the storytelling and background.
That being said, just like I don't ignore the visual elements, I also don't ignore the dialog. So, coupled with the visual elements of the movie, when Paragus actually offers the audience an explanation to Broly's reaction, when Paragus tells the audience what a twist of fate/destiny it is that Goku and Broly were born on the same day and were side by side as babies and now are in that situation, and when the two unknown saiyans comment on Broly and Goku in a way that reflects basically what happens in their fight later on, I take note, and I reached my own conclusion about Broly's motivation and the point of baby Goku's flashback, which I've already explained. And my conclusion wasn't that Broly is motivated by baby Goku's crying.
Sees lots of posts in DBZ Abridged thread
Oh boy! A new episode so soon after Broly movie?? That's awesome!!!
looks in thread
ohā¦...
Sorry
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Broly was, is and always will be the most overhyped dumb as bricks lame brute force character that is completely unappealing to me. The fact that they shove a female version of him now in db super just for fanservice is hilarious. DB super as a whole is trash though.
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I tried to watch Super but kind of lost interestā¦ :sad:
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Broly had some top notch animation we'll never see anything close to in Super:
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normal dbz series has a better constant artstyle than super, so of course the movie will look even better compared to anything super does. #Toeiischeap
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Now Yugi takes his shot
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When is Alucard Vs Cell?
Taka would have an existencial conflict on that one.
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Do you think there will be an Ash Ketchum vs Cell?
I remember there was an Abridged series about PokƩmon. Taka also appeared in that series voicing Surge and Ghost Raichu. -
Even though it's not Team Four Star, I would love for None Piece Luffy to get his own segment with his raspy middle-aged pirate voice.
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Alucard or Father Anderson? I'm not sure who I'd prefer. But I am definitely liking this trend, hope it continues for a bit.
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Alucard or Father Anderson? I'm not sure who I'd prefer. But I am definitely liking this trend, hope it continues for a bit.
I don't know how Cell vs Alucard could possibly work though. Cell is obviously more powerful, but they can't exactly trash Alucard, it wouldn't be in character for him to lose. Maybe Alucard could justā¦ introduce Cell to Adventure Time as they share stories of how they've brutally murdered people instead of fighting?
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Aren't the people showing up from works that had Tournament Arcs as major stories?
Complicating things since 2009.
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I don't see why they can't expand that pattern if it keeps doing well views wise. Especially if they already have the VAs already on their team.
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Jotaro or DIO then!
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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Dio and Cell would be hilarious.
Vampire Dio or STAND DIO? They are crazy in their unique ways.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
