Akainu/Sakazuki Discussion

HaxeyeMihawk

Well no obviously not, that i cant or atleast wont argue against.

Just to point out, they didnt question him. Clover was the one who went of into a tirade. Before he started talking all they said was that evidence had been found and they were going to be sentenced to death.

Like i said, all i ever argue against is the notion that the WG is a 2D evil empire without any depth or reasoning for what they do other than revealing in their own evilness. I wont say its not about self perservation because at some level it probaby is, but only for the sake of continuing their evilness probably not, unless Oda dies and some hack writer continues the story.

Well of course they aren't a 2D evil empire but undoubtedly there actions are evil, they do things in the name of self preservation that simply put are wrong. The last time we had this discussion I compared them to Light from Death Note, they may have had good intentions when they erased that ancient civilization but now they'll do anything to keep that past hidden, the same way Light started killing anyone who'd figure out he was Kira.

SabZ

@wintergt:

I just read an article in the paper that the mossad had found proof that the russians had been shipping missiles to Iran, on a ship that was supposedly shipping finnish wood. (not sure if it was the government or a rogue agent in russia) Then a russian journalist made an article in which he questions that the ship maybe not had finnish wood on board after. He has now fled to Turkey because he will be killed if he returns to Russia.

So as you see, it's not that uncommon to kill people for knowing too much, even in the real world :D

Russia and Iran don't count.

wintergt

They don't count for what?

SabZ

Nevermind…. just a lil joke which I cba to explain.

wolfwood

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Well of course they aren't a 2D evil empire but undoubtedly there actions are evil, they do things in the name of self preservation that simply put are wrong. The last time we had this discussion I compared them to Light from Death Note, they may have had good intentions when they erased that ancient civilization but now they'll do anything to keep that past hidden, the same way Light started killing anyone who'd figure out he was Kira.

To me what you're describing is painfuly 2D, "they're evil period and nothing more."

And personaly i cant see a story as complex as one piece building something as huge as the world goverment and the elder stars and gearing them toward them being something so bland. I fully expect them, their revelations and their characters to blow all people who go in with preconceived notions of them being demonic creatures with 666 tattoed on the forehead away.

Big_Bad_Lith

@Refii:

Let he with no sin throw the first stone.

Yeah, so we throw that first mutha f*****!!

HaxeyeMihawk

@wolfwood:

To me what you're describing is painfuly 2D, "they're evil period and nothing more."

And personaly i cant see a story as complex as one piece building something as huge as the world goverment and the elder stars and gearing them toward them being something so bland. I fully expect them, their revelations and their characters to blow all people who go in with preconceived notions of them being demonic creatures with 666 tattoed on the forehead away.

No what I'm saying is that they may have had good intentions at the beginning but now mostly commit atrocities to keep their secret secret (a lá Light Yagami). And other than that what can you expect of them? To me atleast it's clear that they follow the line of, "Power corrupts; and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Lordzeb

@wolfwood:

To me what you're describing is painfuly 2D, "they're evil period and nothing more."

And personaly i cant see a story as complex as one piece building something as huge as the world goverment and the elder stars and gearing them toward them being something so bland. I fully expect them, their revelations and their characters to blow all people who go in with preconceived notions of them being demonic creatures with 666 tattoed on the forehead away.

agreed Rayleigh reached the true history and suggested to really understand what was going on they'd have to continue seeing the world for themselves. To me this suggest that the issue isn't so black and white. For all we know the wiped out group could've had an Númenorian complex (LOTR reference). Antagonist and protagonist doesn't necessarily mean good vs evil and that may be the case here. If the acts they do now are for good reason even if they're terrible can it be called evil.

wolfwood

@HaxeyeMihawk:

No what I'm saying is that they may have had good intentions at the beginning but now mostly commit atrocities to keep their secret secret (a lá Light Yagami).

Okay, so they were nice but now theyre evil. Would still only be slightly less bland than before.

And other than that what can you expect of them?

What i expect of them, is that Oda will make use of the perfect opportunity to showcase that there is a gray scale, that things arent just white or black and thats all that they can be.

If the acts they do now are for good reason even if they're terrible can it be called evil.

Would love to see some dwelling on that by Oda, How things never are as simple as people like to make them out to be and that villains cant always be easily recognized by their villainous mustaches and nefarious capes. Especialy not in world changing affairs.

HaxeyeMihawk

@Lordzeb121:

agreed Rayleigh reached the true history and suggested to really understand what was going on they'd have to continue seeing the world for themselves. To me this suggest that the issue isn't so black and white. For all we know the wiped out group could've had an Númenorian complex (LOTR reference). Antagonist and protagonist doesn't necessarily mean good vs evil and that may be the case here. If the acts they do now are for good reason even if they're terrible can it be called evil.

And my exact point was that say if the WG did the world a favor by wiping out that old civilization but through their actions of killing people who discover this history they are essentially becoming an evil organization itself. Now if they did do something just like that then why didn't they do as Clover said and tell the world the truth and then move on from there? By not doing that it makes them seem like they're covering up a completely inconvenient history. Basically let the world form it's own opinion not lie to them.

@Wolfwood
That's likely as gray as it'll get plus the fact that there are still good people affiliated with the WG, Oda already has gray and that's Luffy. Can you even give me an example of how they could be (lol) more gray?

MagneticMonkey

Of course they are not plain evil. The marines are full with guys who actually want to protect people from blood thirsty pirates. Smoker, Garp, coby etc… But what is not ok is to put justice above everything as the absolute justice followers do. The term absolute itself just show that it's "extreme".
I do not agree with their methods. There are other ways of protecting people.
The elder stars might also not be plain evil but so far what they did to ohara is a shame. Rayleigh said it and i agree.

We have all the right to criticise corruption fanatics methods and torture. It's one side of the marines/wg that will bring their downfall.

SMUDGE

I wonder if the Gorosei were tied in more personally to the Ohara incident or maybe it was just to prevent anything being revealed about the void century.

Btw I,m starting to think doflammingo knows a little about the void century. Read what clover said to the gorosei and what doflammingo said in the last chapter. It sounds very familiar don't you think?

Something along the lines of the victors deciding what was right/justice. If the government win and truly conquer it all then I wouldn't be surprised if this battle was made secretive after a long time, perhaps to stop any rebelious ideas happening in the future.

Anyway that's me for today, now to carry on climbing this mountain ;)

SMUDGE

This post is deleted!

Ivotas

@SMUDGE:

Btw I,m starting to think doflammingo knows a little about the void century. Read what clover said to the gorosei and what doflammingo said in the last chapter. It sounds very familiar don't you think?

Winners write history. It's a true fact. What Clover and Doflamingo said simply refers to it. It doesn't necessarily mean that Doflamingo has any idea about the void century. He's simply stating a truth about warfare.

SMUDGE

@Ivotas:

Winners write history. It's a true fact. What Clover and Doflamingo said simply refers to it. It doesn't necessarily mean that Doflamingo has any idea about the void century. He's simply stating a truth about warfare.

That's true, but there is other things about dofla and his position that makes me believe his is held higher than most of the shichibukai, one of the obvious reasons being his allowance to control the majority of the slavery, slavery that provided for the tenrybuto. The origin/descendants of the kings that are the government. This may have granted him special privialages. I also thinks he's one of the smartest shichibukai so far, smart enough to notice the changes happening and change accordingly. Now my speculation about him isn't that strong but it isn't that far fetched, and could be foreshadowing of something even greater to come.

Edit. Typing on a phone isn't great, I will produce something a bit less smelly when I get back in a few days

MagneticMonkey

Well a shichibukai being at the head of a slavery organisation who has clients coming from various kingdoms isn't far fetched. It even seems normal to me. He has an outlaw business. The problem is that he WG tolerates it cause they will never go against the celestial dragons.
I think he did it mainly because of the profit :)

Refii

It seems unlikely that DonFlamingo would create a slave trade for the profits. His devil fruit power allows him to have a commoner hand over anything he wants, or to simply kill those that can resist him.

The motives for the slave trade had to either be Shichibukai related (refusal to give him the position due to his sketchy nature), or perhaps in order to find something/someone through it. (Perhaps he needed a certain mermaid/merman with information and this was the best way to find him/her without getting his own hands dirty).

SMUDGE

I too feel the slave trade wasn't for profit, but for something else. Be it power/position or information, maybe both. My point is he wasn't that bothered about giving it up in shabondy, either because he got what he was after or because he is now in the position to head into this new era. I believe Doflamingo will offer us something great in the future, perhaps more dastardly and genious then what Crocodile tried.

wolfwood

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Now if they did do something just like that then why didn't they do as Clover said and tell the world the truth and then move on from there? By not doing that it makes them seem like they're covering up a completely inconvenient history. Basically let the world form it's own opinion not lie to them.

To quote Rayleigh

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/06/

This would imply that Clover's idea was indeed too idealistic. And that the Elder stars werent just being asses for the sake of it. As i read it he doesnt condone in any way what happend to Ohara, but it is implied that it might have had a valid reason to make that call.

Oda already has gray and that's Luffy.

At most Oda has dipped his feet into the gray pool with the impel down arc, but other than that Luffy has always been a clear cut hero.

Can you even give me an example of how they could be (lol) more gray?

I'll just refer you to what i said above.

HaxeyeMihawk

@wolfwood:

To quote Rayleigh

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/06/

This would imply that Clover's idea was indeed too idealistic. And that the Elder stars werent just being asses for the sake of it. As i read it he doesnt condone in any way what happend to Ohara, but it is implied that it might have had a valid reason to make that call.

At most Oda has dipped his feet into the gray pool with the impel down arc, but other than that Luffy has always been a clear cut hero.
I'll just refer you to what i said above.

Rayleigh is only implying that the history of the void century has multiple ways that it can be looked at. You could read it and think that the WG is vile for what they did or believe they did what was necessary however this only allows for an area of gray and ambiguity with regards to the event in the history itself it doesn't provide grayness for any killings that the Gorousei have committed to hide the history this is the point that you're not grasping.

And I doubt the current Gorousei were alive 800 years ago so what they are doing now is purely to safeguard their secret and not even giving the option of the truth that Rayleigh offered Robin, so as I said even if what was done 800 years ago was gray and necessary that doesn't excuse the recent evil they committed to hide it and that's why I asked you what could justify their actions and make the current Gorousei gray characters?

MagneticMonkey

@wolfwood:

To quote Rayleigh

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/06/

This would imply that Clover's idea was indeed too idealistic. And that the Elder stars werent just being asses for the sake of it. As i read it he doesnt condone in any way what happend to Ohara, but it is implied that it might have had a valid reason to make that call.

Maybe you missed the part where rayleigh clearly said that what happened to ohara was a shame?
What glover said might have been a little hasty but rayleigh with the knowledge he has about the void century condemn what happened at ohara.

HaxeyeMihawk

@MagneticMonkey:

Maybe you missed the part where rayleigh clearly said that what happened to ohara was a shame?
What glover said might have been a little hasty but rayleigh with the knowledge he has about the void century condemn what happened at ohara.

Exactly, Rayleigh only implied that the Oharans were hasty in condemning the WG for what it did 800 years ago, however that doesn't excuse what they're doing now to hide this history. That's why I think the grayness is in the void century however what is happening now is wrong.

wolfwood

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Rayleigh is only implying that the history of the void century has multiple ways that it can be looked at. You could read it and think that the WG is vile for what they did or believe they did what was necessary however this only allows for an area of gray and ambiguity with regards to the event in the history itself

To me he's implying that there is indeed a gray scale to it all.

it doesn't provide grayness for any killings that the Gorousei have committed to hide the history this is the point that you're not grasping.

Because this couldnt possibly still be relevent, and the information that was too dangerous then couldnt still be as potent. Hence how Rayleigh after all these years is still not feeling totaly comfortable with sharing the information even with a tightly knit group he could trust.

And I doubt the current Gorousei were alive 800 years ago so what they are doing now is purely to safeguard their secret and not even giving the option of the truth that Rayleigh offered Robin,

Rayleigh was considering telling a single pirate crew and was even hesitant about the consequences of it. And you're comparing that to informing the whole world with the consequences that come of it.

so as I said even if what was done 800 years ago was gray and necessary that doesn't excuse the recent evil they committed to hide it and that's why I asked you what could justify their actions?

We dont even know the reason, so how on earth can you say that its couldnt still be neccesary or could be justifieable on any level?

I think you're far to black and white in your way of thinking.

Maybe you missed the part where rayleigh clearly said that what happened to ohara was a shame?

"As i read it he doesnt condone in any way what happend to Ohara, but it is implied that it might have had a valid reason to make that call."

I'll just quote myself on that. Course he didnt approve of the killing, but neither did he after haven gotten time to think about it feel that Clover's idea was the right way to go either. Looking at how contemplative he looks when he's thinking about it, it leads me once again to think that this will blow all our stereotyped notions away when we get all the facts.

Exactly, Rayleigh only implied that the Oharans were hasty in condemning the WG for what it did 800 years ago, however that doesn't excuse what they're doing now to hide this history. That's why I think the grayness is in the void century however what is happening now is wrong.

Except the Oharans werent really condeming the WG in any serious way. You're certainly free to have your own opinion, but to me its clear as glass that he's refering to that it wasnt an issue as simple as some would like to make it out to be.

HaxeyeMihawk

@wolfwood:

To me he's implying that there is indeed a gray scale to it all.

Because this couldnt possibly still be relevent, and the information that was too dangerous then couldnt still be as potent. Hence how Rayleigh after all these years is still not feeling totaly comfortable with sharing the information even with a tightly knit group he could trust.

Rayleigh was considering telling a single pirate crew and was even hesitant about the consequences of it. And you're comparing that to informing the whole world with the consequences that come of it.

We dont even know the reason, so how on earth can you say that its couldnt still be neccesary or could be justifieable on any level?

I think you're far to black and white in your way of thinking.

"As i read it he doesnt condone in any way what happend to Ohara, but it is implied that it might have had a valid reason to make that call."

I'll just quote myself on that. Course he didnt approve of the killing, but neither did he after haven gotten time to think about it feel that Clover's idea was the right way to go either. Looking at how contemplative he looks when he's thinking about it, it leads me once again to think that this will blow all our stereotyped notions away when we get all the facts.

Except the Oharans werent really condeming the WG in any serious way. You're certainly free to have your own opinion, but to me its clear as glass that he's refering to that it wasnt an issue as simple as some would like to make it out to be.

I knew you'd use this argument, but you still don't get that it's not up to the WG to decide whether or not the people of the world can handle the truth or not, and what's worse is that they are killing people to cover up the truth. Do you not see how it's wrong to kill people because you think the information they have may cause a panic? When you kill someone they're dead no maybes involved. Again I basically knew you'd use this argument, which is why I asked what could justify this and you essentially used the argument that the WG is using the principle of "You can't handle the truth!"

And this is assuming that the the WG's overthrowing of a possibly evil civilisation (assuming that this is even the case) could cause panic, at most I'd think that the people would choose to make a new govt or separate back into individual non WG kingdoms. In the end I still can't imagine a secret that they would deem necessary to kill people with that would be anything but them covering their own asses. Do you have a speculated idea?

MagneticMonkey

@wolfwood:

"As i read it he doesnt condone in any way what happend to Ohara, but it is implied that it might have had a valid reason to make that call."

I'll just quote myself on that. Course he didnt approve of the killing, but neither did he after haven gotten time to think about it feel that Clover's idea was the right way to go either. Looking at how contemplative he looks when he's thinking about it, it leads me once again to think that this will blow all our stereotyped notions away when we get all the facts.

Ah excuse me. I took "condone" as "condemn".

wolfwood

@HaxeyeMihawk:

I knew you'd use this argument, but you still don't get that it's not up to the WG to decide whether or not the people of the world can handle the truth or not

If a group of highly enlighted men worked over an issue at every angle and found the best course of action, that would benefit a vast vast vast majority of the world with a minimum of casualties i cant see any reason why they shouldnt take the reins and lead toward it, And certainly not because they should have asked for the entire worlds opinion before hand.

and what's worse is that they are killing people to cover up the truth. Do you not see how it's wrong to kill people because you think the information they have may cause a panic? When you kill someone they're dead no maybes involved.

You're assuming that it at worst "may cause a panic" what if the worst case scenario guarantes whole islands being destroyed with war, famine and god knows what in its wake. As you say a dead man is dead, so hypoteticaly which would be preferably. 1000 dead or 100.000 dead?

Again I basically knew you'd use this argument, which is why I asked what could justify this and you essentially used the argument that the WG is using the principle of "You can't handle the truth!"

Well im going for something more like that they feel that the lives that would be lost as a consequence of an all out revelation would be far greater than those who had to die to keep it secret.

And this is assuming that the the WG's overthrowing of a possibly evil civilisation (assuming that this is even the case) could cause panic, at most I'd think that the people would choose to make a new govt or separate back into individual non WG kingdoms.

Wouldnt even go as far as to say that they conquered some "evil" kingdom, but something in the past is apparently dangerous enough to the world at large that people ranging from the elder stars to Rayleigh belive it's to soon to reveal it out right.

In the end I still can't imagine a secret that they would deem necessary to kill people with that would be anything but them covering their own asses. Do you have a speculated idea?

Nah anything i could conceive wouldnt reach up to the toes of Oda's genius, all i will be doing is to try to puzzle together the hints and the rest i'll leave for him to blow me away with.

EDIT: @Magnetic No probs dude, i skim along far to much myself. That's why i always have to edit my posts ad nauseum.

MagneticMonkey

"Another thought":
The government might really have a good reason to hide the truth. What i fear is that they definitely go too far with it and their concept of justice. They overthrow countries because they're completely afraid of them joining the revolutionaries or whatever. They torture pirates to death for breaking the law and pay a lot of money to a corrupt family that support massive killing and slavery…

They do whatever they can to survive which is understandable but at a point they have to stop. Seems like they sometimes forget what their duty is and it's completely normal that they act like that. It's normal that they become paranoid while hiding a part of history. That only leads people to rebel because some will definitely think like glover and will cause trouble. That's why the government can't survive.

wolfwood

@MagneticMonkey:

"Another thought":
The government might really have a good reason to hide the truth. What i fear is that they definitely go too far with it and their concept of justice.

Oh definitly, think that notion will have a large part of the upcoming story.

HaxeyeMihawk

And this is where I was figuring the discussion would eventually get to, now my problem here is that I just can't even imagine how the WG's wiping out of an ancient civilisation being made known could result in anything on a global scale other than maybe the people of the world choose to dissolve the WG, I meanly really how can there even exist a reason that isn't totally absurd that would make this a situation unbefitting of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and instead be the WG committing necessary evils to protect the greater good?

The best I can think of is that the Gorousei full heartedly believe that if the people found out what happened 800 years ago and decided to dissolve the WG then wars would return to the world due to the lack of a WG to unify the people, but that even sounds contrived and as if the Gorousei think so highly of themselves to take on that responsibility, again this seems way more likely to be a case of men in power doing whatever is necessary to stay in power rather than some greater good being preserved. Hell what type of govt that aims for doing whatever is necesary fotr the greater good would even bother to put up with the antics of the greedy, despicable, elitist slave holding Tennryuubito? That seems to clash with how you think things will play out along with the fact that it's much more likely that the Gorousei would personally prefer to maintain absolute power and lastly that a connection to the WG's covering up of it's past and global catastrophe would probably be so absurd that it'd be ridiculous.

All these reasons are why I understood your point this whole time but it just seems unlikely.

wolfwood

@HaxeyeMihawk:

that would make this a situation unbefitting of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and instead be the WG committing necessary evils to protect the greater good?

Why does it have to be one or the other. Like i said above i think most of this is going to be played out in a manner that makes simple judgements as saying these guys are evil and these guys are good impossible.

Hell what type of govt that aims for doing whatever is necesary fotr the greater good would even bother to put up with the antics of the greedy, despicable, elitist slave holding Tennryuubito? That seems to clash with how you think things will play out

Well tot really, the nobles obviously has some kind of hook on them that makes it worthwhile for the goverment to keep them around and lets them control one island.

As for speculations about what the big secret is your guess is as good as mine.

HaxeyeMihawk

@wolfwood:

Why does it have to be one or the other. Like i said above i think most of this is going to be played out in a manner that makes simple judgements as saying these guys are evil and these guys are good impossible.

Well tot really, the nobles obviously has some kind of hook on them that makes it worthwhile for the goverment to keep them around and lets them control one island.

As for speculations about what the big secret is your guess is as good as mine.

The reason the situation is so limited is because I just can't imagine how their secret remaining secret would/could benefit anyone but themselves and to an extent that lives are deemed necessary to preserve the secret and I've yet to hear of even one hypothetical scenario that would rationalise this thought. I mean seriously what if the secret gets out will the heads of the general public explode? Will they riot and kill each other on a global scale? Will the ancient weapons activate if the secret spreads to widely? And if by saying that the WG of 800 years ago people who killed the people of the ancient civilisation for the greater good did the right thing doesn't it sorta just make the people of the ancient civilisation the bad guys? Seriously I need something before I strap the greater good as a motivation for keeping that secret. More than likely this is Oda putting in a fictionalised version of what happened to the Mayans into OP (Shandorians were kinda close to).

Sir Ilpalazzo

I don't really see how the WG could have been justified in what they did, even if Rayleigh made it seem like there might be some reason. Nothing bad could possibly happen from people learning whatever the history was (of course it would be bad if the ancient weapons came back, but that wasn't what the Oharans were going for anyway). Even if that history revealed something bad about the WG, that'd just be proof that the WG needs to be eliminated.

Saying they got killed for researching history is waaay to misleading, they got killed for digging in archives containing blue prints for an A-bomb.

But it wasn't. In the end, the final straw that led to Ohara being wiped out was Clover saying that he knew the name of the ancient civilization. And even then, massacring everyone on the island just because a few people were looking at "dangerous" information is insane. It'd be like the USA government killing everyone in California because someone was looking at government files.

Besides, there's too much other evidence that the WG is evil. If they weren't evil, Akainu wouldn't still be in the Marines, much less have gotten a promotion after Ohara. If they weren't evil, the leader of the Marines wouldn't be someone as deluded as Sengoku who thinks that Ace has "cursed blood" and should die for it, nor would they kill pregnant women and babies for such a ridiculous reason. And if they weren't evil, Impel Down wouldn't be what it is (I don't understand how you can say Luffy stepped into the gray area by attacking it, Impel Down was evil and all the people who worked there were shown as complete monsters).

Vanessa

@wolfwood:

Why does it have to be one or the other. Like i said above i think most of this is going to be played out in a manner that makes simple judgements as saying these guys are evil and these guys are good impossible.

Plus that's been pretty much the message we've been given recently as well with Teach and Doflamingo.

The World Government likely has always and still does have the best intentions which probably back during when it was first established worked well. Then over time leading to the present they've strayed from the ideals that their organization was built on in their paranoia but overall they've done good. That's why I'm hoping that with characters like Kuzan, Smoker and Coby there will be some change that likely hasn't had a chance to happen due to the recent status-quo from this Golden Age of Piracy.

Well tot really, the nobles obviously has some kind of hook on them that makes it worthwhile for the goverment to keep them around and lets them control one island.

I doubt that the Celestial Dragons really do anything to be honest. They've just been a part of things for so long due to their ancestors having been part of the kingdoms which established the World Government that removing them from the equation has never been seen as an option.

EDIT: If I had to take a guess it'd be maybe funds since they seem like a small population that has an enormous independent wealth excluded from everyone else. I mean Charloss was easily willing to give $500,000,000 for Camie and Roswald showed no kind of reaction.

Zik

I'm more than sure we'll be more and specifically different world nobles. I feel the three we meant were just for the slave auction angle.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a couple badass ones, good ones, and ones who are actually evil.

HaxeyeMihawk

@Zik:

I'm more than sure we'll be more and specifically different world nobles. I feel the three we meant were just for the slave auction angle.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a couple badass ones, good ones, and ones who are actually evil.

Well any good ones won't be seen with fishbowls on their heads, I don't know if non-elitist fishbowless Tennryuubito exist.

Zik

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Well any good ones won't be seen with fishbowls on their heads, I don't know if non-elitist fishbowless Tennryuubito exist.

Well ofcourse not the bubbles make them automatically look like dumbasses.

I.D_Angelic

This may not be the right thread, but as you're touching the topic..

I don't believe the World Government has ever had the best of intentions. It's most important purpuse seems to keep the people in the dark about the Void century and the Ancient Kingdom that left the phonegyph. If they now maintain world order is to make it easier to manipulate and to justify the horrible abuse of power it's desendants have over the rest of the population. The actions they've taken shows that they plan to get rid of everyone that threaten it's supremacy until they're the only authority; and that may don't even be it's ultimate goal. Of course there're individuals that work for the GW with good intentions, but they're also deceived and used. And others like Akainu that are criminals themselves for the sake of their justice.

wolfwood

@Sir:

But it wasn't. In the end, the final straw that led to Ohara being wiped out was Clover saying that he knew the name of the ancient civilization.

Well it really was, they had already passed a death sentance on them even before Clover started talking. All that his speculation lead to was them speeding up the process.

And even then, massacring everyone on the island just because a few people were looking at "dangerous" information is insane. It'd be like the USA government killing everyone in California because someone was looking at government files.

I can guarante you this, If some group managed to hack into the pentagon and get away with plans or secrets that could threaten the US goverment. You would never ever EVER be seeing those people again. And comparing it to California is way melodramtic, it would be apt is California was an island so small that you could run straight across it and was inhabited by 500 people at most.

I don't understand how you can say Luffy stepped into the gray area by attacking it, Impel Down was evil and all the people who worked there were shown as complete monsters).

Well releasing all the most dangerous and violent criminals in the entire world, and not giving the slightest crap about the consequences all to serve your own selfish needs is definitly moving him more into the gray zone as far as i am concerned.

@Vanessa:

The World Government likely has always and still does have the best intentions which probably back during when it was first established worked well. Then over time leading to the present they've strayed from the ideals that their organization was built on in their paranoia but overall they've done good. That's why I'm hoping that with characters like Kuzan, Smoker and Coby there will be some change that likely hasn't had a chance to happen due to the recent status-quo from this Golden Age of Piracy.

Awesome post, has to be quoted for the greater good.

IrishLuigi

Akainu is wasting is ability killing fodder who is too scared to battle.

His ability would be better spent on being at the frontline.

Xylo

@Zik:

I'm more than sure we'll be more and specifically different world nobles. I feel the three we meant were just for the slave auction angle.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a couple badass ones, good ones, and ones who are actually evil.

How are the ones we saw at the slave auction not evil.

IrishLuigi

@Xylo:

How are the ones we saw at the slave auction not evil.

Read the post properly.

Zik

@Xylo:

How are the ones we saw at the slave auction not evil.

They're a type of evil to an extent. There more of the type of human that takes advantages of what they were born with. Put them in a different setting they probably wouldn't act as they do now.

I'm talking just a flat out pure evil character.

Sir Ilpalazzo

@wolfwood:

Well it really was, they had already passed a death sentance on them even before Clover started talking. All that his speculation lead to was them speeding up the process.

That's not any better-looking for them. If they want to kill people for knowing history, then there must be a reason, and a government like that isn't the best thing for the people.

I can guarante you this, If some group managed to hack into the pentagon and get away with plans or secrets that could threaten the US goverment. You would never ever EVER be seeing those people again.

That might be reasonable, but from what we've been shown in the series, they're more worried about people using the ancient language to learn history than get the ancient weapons. If they only wanted to stop the weapons from being revived, they still wouldn't look good, but at least they'd have more of a case. Not wanting people to learn something as basic as how the government came into existence and what the world was like before that is a sign that the government has to be evil.

And comparing it to California is way melodramtic, it would be apt is California was an island so small that you could run straight across it and was inhabited by 500 people at most.

The fact is still that innocent people died that did nothing wrong, and governments should only do that kind of thing when they absolutely have no choice - which they did, of course.

Well releasing all the most dangerous and violent criminals in the entire world, and not giving the slightest crap about the consequences all to serve your own selfish needs is definitly moving him more into the gray zone as far as i am concerned.

Impel Down was evil, though. Yeah, prisons aren't supposed to be great places, but at least America has laws against cruel and unusual punishment. Impel Down was just an excuse for sadists like Magellan and probably Hannyabal to have fun. It was even depicted as evil, with the guards' uniforms and all. Of course there were many evil people inside, but ID was the greater evil.

SuburbanErrorist

@Wurtsi:

Why do you people think that a dog fruit would be such a horrible idea. Logias are getting kind of boring and since both the other Admirals already have one why would you want to make the third one exactly the same. A simple Zoan would be nice for a change.

Magma/Lava is for idiots and blood isn't really different from any other liquid and would kind of suck as a Logia, though some kind of Paramecia could actually sound interesting. Best case scenario in my opinion would be that he doesn't have a fruit at all, but kicks ass in a whole new creative way that any you fools can't even comprehend.

Best out of both worlds. A magma dog.

Game And Guy

Uhm, you realize you replied to someone who hasn't been here since 2009 to a post that was made 7 years ago?

Though I have to say, it's always hilarious to read some threads and theories retroatively knowing what's happened. I've read long posts during Water 7 about Franky for the next crewmate/

Eat n' Sleep

@Game:

Uhm, you realize you replied to someone who hasn't been here since 2009 to a post that was made 7 years ago?

Though I have to say, it's always hilarious to read some threads and theories retroatively knowing what's happened. I've read long posts during Water 7 about Franky for the next crewmate/

I just went through a few old threads and found one about who were the Roger Pirates. Someone here actually predicted Buggy was one of them back in 2005.

KageKageKing

Chore boys tend to find lot of things.

SuburbanErrorist

@Game:

Uhm, you realize you replied to someone who hasn't been here since 2009 to a post that was made 7 years ago?

Though I have to say, it's always hilarious to read some threads and theories retroatively knowing what's happened. I've read long posts during Water 7 about Franky for the next crewmate/

I trailed quite a bit and found this post.

A dog Zoan? Nah son, A Magma Hellhound!

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@KageKageKing:

Chore boys tend to find lot of things.

I found one in 2008 and was gold:

@Coookie:

Obviously, Sanji will run away for very long from those transvestites. Someday, maybe in five weeks or so, he will suddenly be in mid-air just when he notices that he has been running on air for quite some time: he just learned Moonwalk! And then he'll simply walk back to the Sabaody Archipelago.

Not bad huh?

-Shichibukai- 0

does he have the most effective logia?

also, i can just the heat doing something to luffys rubber(probably initiating another gear)

G8trH8tr

@-Shichibukai-:

does he have the most effective logia?

also, i can just the heat doing something to luffys rubber(probably initiating another gear)

Kizaru does, not akainu. Borsalino has the perfect devil fruit.