yup…all figured out...

cause you've got it all figured out huh…

the value of grades depends on where you want to go. Life is different for everyone and yeah even if you work hard it does not guarantee success but it does increase your chances of it. Everyone in my family went to school on scholorships and it's something we're very proud of. The kids will finish their education debt free at the very least. Certain paths of life require you to maintain excellent grades in HS to get into the best colleges to get into the best grad schools. You could ofc fuck up one of these steps and still get to where your going but it will be harder.

If you want to be a doctor or get far in any one of the hard sciences or engineering i'd suggest you work your ass off in HS, College, Grad, etc if you want to be and compete with the best. The world is changing and where once simply graduating from a good US school meant you were well on your way to good job now means you have extremely well educated global competition for those same spots, and they all want it badly for w/e reason. For any other type of field this may be my bias but i'd say you can be more liberal with your school experience though it varies from major to major.

Some people don't find their niche till later on, some people change it up halfway or w/e but approach your education with an initial goal in mind. You can set it low, you can set it high it doesn't matter. Just do your very best to reach that goal and roll with w/e punches life throws at you. There will be changes and hardly anything ever works out the way you plan but that's no reason to just say fuck it and coast along.

Also remember that a Job is Education+Social experience. You can no more get a job you don't have the ability to perform than you can get a job where you can't function well with others. College is a networking experience. You get into a better school you can build a much better network which will greatly increase your chances of finding a job after college because jobs are just as much about who you know as they are about what you know. In this economy who you know is more important than ever, i think about 50% of available jobs are filled by people in the company getting a job for their friend, former co-worker, student, etc and the job is rarely listed anywhere.

i've been meaning to read old boy. tried reading ghost world, it felt like hanging out with my friends friends so i walked away…

@Nobodyman:

**Oh, you mean like how it could've been symbolic of the world situation in general?

And again, symbolic parallelism is not the same thing as character development.**

no.

I'm getting tired of repeating myself. There was no need to explore Adrian that much at that point! Any internalization of him would've given away the ending and any further screentime of him would've been goofy and pointless. Moore gave him just the right amount of screentime before Chapter XI.

If there was no need to explore Adrian why bother with his mini backstory anyway. We know as much about him as we do as any side character up till that point and you're saying that's all we needed to know. So why didn't Moore just have Adrian tell us his plan. You guys give naruto shit all the time when Kishi does stuff like this. When a backstory is immediately dropped on a character now that he's suddenly relevant to the story and we're supposed to feel some type of new way about them. Prior to his reveal and some minor scenes before hand Adrian has a bit role. End of comic, twist, backstory, thats all ok…
Right. "So if the author does this really arbitrary storytelling device that I saw in some other stories, and it will work in absolutely any other story because I said so, that would make the story even betterer." Yeah, okay.
So you ask me what Moore should've done with the character and imply that the way he went about it is the only way it could've been done well. I argue against that pointing out that other stories have done that without hurting their integrity and you come back with this…which is just...i don't even know? If you don't want an answer don't ask a question.
**"Hey, nevermind what we're actually discussing. I want to introduce this tangential crap about Adrian being the obvious villain."

Okay, I'll bite. There was no reason to assume that Adrian would've had a bigger role later on or turn out to be the villain. He could've just been another washed up ex-superhero who had no interest in the field anymore.**

_Again that was a response to you saying that the way Moore went about Adrian's character was the best way to do so, revealing him as the villain at the end was a great twist according to you. All of this was good story telling. I respond by saying that it wasn't good story telling and i could see the twist coming before i got there because it was extremely cliche that the person the writer wants you to suspect the least is the person responsible for the whatever. And suddenly this is tangential?

You know how when you're watching Law and Order and each character is introduced and you try to guess if they're the bad guy or not? Well if you don't that's what i do and the majority of the time i'm wrong, it's because the writers throw in a new character or change something at the end. If they don't do that chance are i can pick the bad guy out after a couple minutes of screen time just based on how i expect the writer to expect the audience to feel about whoever. That might seem tangential to you and theres no way of knowing if you even made it this far before destroying your computer but i approached watchmen the same way since the main plot is supposed to be a mystery. By the time you're halfway through you should realize this is not the type of comic where the villain is going to be some new guy thrown at you by the end with a poor explanation tacked on, Moore spends a lot of time on each one, except Adrian, even though adrian is one of the members of The "new" Watchmen so you're waiting for his story anyway just like Moore gave you a long indepth story to go along with ALL the other Watchmen. So taking all that into account by the time you get to the end if you aren't looking at Adrian to be the villain it seems kind of silly. The Alien, not cliche. The fact that the villain was the character the writer tried to make us suspect the least while giving the least information especially compared to the characters who should've been his peers….cliche._
Actually, most of the stuff just described happened in one chapter. Also, thos are two freaking different characters! "Well, Moore did it with this one guy, so that means he should do it with every character despite their role in the story or the author's intentions," is what you're saying.

He gave a backstory or some character revealing/developing event to each one of the "new" Watchmen except for Adrian who is given his speech at the end to wrap up himself and entire story. So it's more like "well moore did it with all the other characters except for adrian"

**Go ahead. It'd probably be more fruitful than you trying to debate something.

Great. I don't fucking care.**
But i do. You seem angry btw? Did my picture not convey that?

16characters of not mad =/

Why do they need to overcome the threat? If Veidt's goal was simply to get them to stop going into WW3 then either plan, Alien or Manhattan would've worked. If he plan was to foster unity then thanks to several factors including the journal and each plans ambiguous longevity you have no way of saying one is clearly better than the other. That's assuming Veidt's goal was a long term peace instead of the short term of merely stopping the war.

Aliens are coming = no WW3
Manhattan is threatening to kill us if we fight = no WW3

And the deliberate thing we were supposed to be wondering was whether Veidhts plan would be revealed to the world. Everyone there seemed in agreement that it would work, even Manhattan, so Moore wasn't trying to let the reader wonder whether or not Veidt's plan was good. It was whether it was morally acceptable and whether or not it would be revealed thanks to the journal.

and what is the point of calling Dr.Manhattan an impossible to overcome threat? That implies that the teleporting Alien who, in it's death throes, was able to kill half the population of NYC and broadcast psychic signals around the world is a force that 1980s world leaders thought they stood a sizeable chance against? One would think that their odds of beating that type of enemy were as good as defeating Dr. Manhattan which is to say that those odds are very very very low….

so that's a moot point...

my friend just sent me v by that guy

axir3wQuYBQ

pretty good shit that guy. i was on the fence but when i asked him if his other songs were just as good he made it sound like Flying Lotus was a collab so all the songs would be completely different and i just left it there. I think i'm going to get the album now.

@Nobodyman:

The Black Freighter could, in some ways, be seen as a symbolic parallel of Adrian's story, but it is by no means an explanation of his character.

Not could, was. It was a lot of other things too though.

@Nobodyman:

Well, what the hell did you want Moore to do with his character? He gave him a decent amount of screen time before the "big reveal" and if Moore had focused on him any more it would've revealed his intentions or come off as cheap padding. Also, it wouldn't have made sense for Adrian to get involved in anything that Rorschach and the others were doing.

How would that have cheapened it the effect if he had given Adrian more time? Some of the best setups in history are when an author believably hides a twist right in front of your face the entire time. It doesn't cheapen the effect if it's done right. Veidt gets passing mention throughout and then gets a HUGE part at the end. Unless you were expecting him to go through the entire comic and then introduce a new character at the end to be the villain you should've been looking at Veidt, the character we know least about who seems to have the most squeaky clean profile, to be the villain.

@Nobodyman:

Because, for all they knew, a freaking GIANT ALIEN showed up in the most densely populated cities on the planet, immediately killing off half the inhabitants, and god knows what it is or when another one will show up. That's when they decided, "Gee, maybe we should stop trying to kill each other and start focusing on these giant squid motherfuckers that are trying to kill us."

And yes, it does make more sense due to the degree of uncertainty. Whereas with Dr. Manhattan it's, "Well, time to put our heads between our knees and you know the rest."

That kind of threat has as much weight behind it as something like the idea of God. The level of uncertainty is too high. One creature, once. And suddenly for the rest of forever we're supposed to get along? Unless he starts dropping those things quite frequently someone, if people actually listened to the psychics, is going to start wondering where the invasion is. Even if he does start dropping them frequently someone is going to start wondering why they only drop whenever we're getting too violent. Or if something should happen to Veidht. It works as a temporary distraction and if that's all he was going for fine BUT then the REAL threat of Dr.Manhattan just blowing everyone to fuck if they decide to pull a WW3 would also work as a temporary deterrent.

@Nobodyman:

No. He couldn't have. And again I have to ask exactly what the hell exactly it is you wanted him to do with his character. Have a scene with him meeting with a few colleagues where he explains, "Well, I enjoy fishing, croquet, collecting Egyptian artifacts, spending Friday nights at Studio 54. Oh, and I have this big plan for world peace that involves killing off half the population of New York with a giant squid monster."

Dr. Manhattan's story boiled down to "i like science, used to like clocks, i prefer young women and not getting caught in accidental lab experiments. Oh wait that happened this one time and i might have given people cancer. Fuck i'm going to just hide on Mars." Somehow, magically, against all the odds and naysayers like you Moore managed to craft multiple chapters out of that with tons of dialogue and interesting character exploration and development.

How he managed to do that i will never know…

i guess i have post some type of internet meme now?

i went with obama because i think he's classy…

@Nobodyman:

'The hell are you talking. What did the Black Freighter have to do with Adrian? Did you miss that entire friggin' chapter that was dedicated to him? Or that 10 page monologue of him explaining his backstory and motivations?

You should reread black freighter because obviously all that went right over your head.

I did miss that entire chapter you're talking about i guess. I don't have the comic on hand otherwise i'd look up the exact amount of pages given to every other characters compared to the ten pages where adrian quickly summaries his entire life story, explains the squid, and gives his reasoning. This is all during the climax of the story. You didn't find that jarring at all? Judgeing by your next statement i'm going to assume you thought it was a good twist.

@Nobodyman:

At least the cause and effect of the squid makes sense. It makes no sense that the world would be united after Dr. Manhattan supposedly went rogue since he's a force the world knows they can't fight against.

Makes sense? He gathered psychics and scientists from all over the world to genetically engineer ONE squid monster that he would then dropped on ONE US city where it killled a lot of people. Then the world sings Kumbyya because some people were killed in the US by a mysterious squid monster? That's a better ending than Adrian just copying the doctors powers and destroying multiple cities around the world completely ending the arms race specifically because they know they can't fight against him.

You go through a comic where the author spends so much time fleshing out each of these characters. He shows you where they are, where they've been, where they think they're going. By the end of that you KNOW Dr.Manhattan, you understand him. You understand the owl, and the comedian, and rorschach, and that chick. And after all of that the villain, his motivations, and his entire plan are given to you in 10 pages. He could've given Adrian the same treatment he gave everyone else without giving away the ending and his psyche is somewhat explored in Black Freighter but never to the extent of the others so by the end of it I was like, Who is he? Why does he doing this? How did he do this? Oh that's a lovely cliff notes for this character but…oh..that's it. I guess that's everything...

I didn't like that in the comic and had they used it in the movie i still wouldn't have liked it. Like i said i prefer the movie version and i don't think anything of value was lost but the movie suffered the same fault as the comic only with a 2 hour movie when you dedicate 2 minutes of it to the villain, his history, and his explanation then it just feels much more rushed and shitty...