General 'Haki' Discussion

Gol D. Silvers

Well now with Volume 71 showing in which haki the M3 is good we have somethign to discuss

Call me suprised that it is Sanji = CoO and Zoro = CoA

Well while I agree that personality wise it indeed makes sense with Zoro being the tank and Sanji the strategist, I still thought it would otherwise… Why?... Well for the simple fact that Zoro pre skip showed "breath of of all things" and the Kaku movement reading and Sanji evolved an ability as DJ/Hells Memories and doesn't burn himself.

If we compare this to the Boa Sisters, I thought Sanji would be the Marigold. who matched herself as well, and was the CoA specialist while Sandersonia wasn't able to resist the fire being the CoO expert

And fighting wise I still think both, while leaning to the exact opposite, have to master the other haki... Sanji the most... Yeah he can CoO and avoid attacks but as we have seen pre skip against PXs and now against Vergo, he needs a strong CoA in the future to save his legs from damage, even when he attacks... Zoro can block with his swords

Maybe that's the purpose of Oda, that Sanji and Zoro will still have something to train for and at the end it will be the exact the opposite with Sanji, as Black Leg, will be a specialist in CoA and the other way around... Well to be honest... I don't think at the end there will be much of a difference between the level of their CoA/CoO

I actually thought the same. I essentially saw the Boa sisters and their Haki expertise as parallels to the Monster Trio, with Hancock able to use all the three types (I'm assuming she knows CoO as well) is the one Luffy resembles in that regard.

werewulfking

@blindjustice:

But the yami yami no mi's black smoke like thing can absorb fire before it hits BB though. He did absorb one of Ace's attacks if I remember it correctly. And haki induced punch or protecting himself with haki when BB was hitting him would have been a better option.

Blackbeard doesn't absorb any attacks of Ace in the Manga. He may be able too if he was faster but he is most likely just not fast enough. But I agree that maybe a Haki vwould have been good to defend himself against Blackbeard.

Md-Martin

Ace was never said to have mastered Haki. He had great potential for it, using Conqueror's Haki in his youth but never showed mastery of it. He was incredibly strong but Haki isn't a necessity to be considered strong.

Maju

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Ace used King's haki, the rarest form of haki as a little kid and you think he can't use haki now that he is much older and experienced?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m84p87H8rT1rafymyo1_500.gif

luffy wouldn't have been able to use haki without rayleight's teachings..so yeah,seriously,it's entirely possible.

hell, haki was explained as something that some people try all their life to learn how to use without success.

LightningAce

@Md-Martin:

Ace was never said to have mastered Haki. He had great potential for it, using Conqueror's Haki in his youth but never showed mastery of it. He was incredibly strong but Haki isn't a necessity to be considered strong.

It has never been said he never mastered either and its pretty clear that all the top tier guys in the New World have haki….and i see no reason why Ace wouldn't have had it either.

Admiral Issho

even if ace had haki it shouldn't be strong enough to counter akainus haki like some people before pointed out he didn't had that much time to learn it

LightningAce

@Admiral:

even if ace had haki it shouldn't be strong enough to counter akainus haki like some people before pointed out he didn't had that much time to learn it

Both Marco & Vista are experienced veteran pirates, and even with their attacks, it didn't do much to Akainu…

Admiral Issho

that strengthens my point why the points at the end?

Md-Martin

Nothing indicates that Ace was one of the strongest players in the New World, just that he was very strong and had an incredibly high bounty. That could be just based on the power of his fruit and it's destructive properties.

IlanZ

@Md-Martin:

Nothing indicates that Ace was one of the strongest players in the New World, just that he was very strong and had an incredibly high bounty. That could be just based on the power of his fruit and it's destructive properties.

Only the fact that he was a squad captain under WB. And the high bounty. And the incredible DF power. Yeah, nothing indicates.

RomanceDawn

@Kishido:

Well now with Volume 71 showing in which haki the M3 is good we have somethign to discuss

Call me suprised that it is Sanji = CoO and Zoro = CoA

Well while I agree that personality wise it indeed makes sense with Zoro being the tank and Sanji the strategist, I still thought it would otherwise… Why?... Well for the simple fact that Zoro pre skip showed "breath of of all things" and the Kaku movement reading and Sanji evolved an ability as DJ/Hells Memories and doesn't burn himself.

If we compare this to the Boa Sisters, I thought Sanji would be the Marigold. who matched herself as well, and was the CoA specialist while Sandersonia wasn't able to resist the fire being the CoO expert

And fighting wise I still think both, while leaning to the exact opposite, have to master the other haki... Sanji the most... Yeah he can CoO and avoid attacks but as we have seen pre skip against PXs and now against Vergo, he needs a strong CoA in the future to save his legs from damage, even when he attacks... Zoro can block with his swords

Maybe that's the purpose of Oda, that Sanji and Zoro will still have something to train for and at the end it will be the exact the opposite with Sanji, as Black Leg, will be a specialist in CoA and the other way around... Well to be honest... I don't think at the end there will be much of a difference between the level of their CoA/CoO

I argued the same points a few years ago for the exact same reasons. I'm still expecting some form of CoA to be a potential reason why Sanji doesn't get burned. I suppose though, considering everything that's happened during the training and the time skip it makes sense. Sanji has certainly displayed more CoO than anything else so far. Caribou, Kinemon's torso, Nami, Tashigi, possibly Violet, the Sniper… wow come to think of it I suppose it should have been obvious.

With CoA we seem to get some real tangible results when it's combined with various attacks and of course we'll get plenty of surprises later on but that's pretty much expected. I'm trying to imagine what could be accomplished with an extremely high level of CoO. Eneru applied it to his electricity so that's one example, but what else could Oda be cooking up? After Rayleigh's comment about more possibilities I'm excited to see how Sanji's fighting style is enhanced with CoO beyond dodging attacks.

square

@RomanceDawn:

With CoA we seem to get some real tangible results when it's combined with various attacks and of course we'll get plenty of surprises later on but that's pretty much expected. I'm trying to imagine what could be accomplished with an extremely high level of CoO. Eneru applied it to his electricity so that's one example, but what else could Oda be cooking up? After Rayleigh's comment about more possibilities I'm excited to see how Sanji's fighting style is enhanced with CoO beyond dodging attacks.

Clearly the most advanced application of observation haki is purposely being hit by women.

Md-Martin

@IlanZ:

Only the fact that he was a squad captain under WB. And the high bounty. And the incredible DF power. Yeah, nothing indicates.

Yeah. None of that indicates that he mastered Haki. None of it. At all.

If someone had Haki and was fighting Ace it's useless if he can dodge their attacks. He might have mastered just observation Haki. He might not have had any formal training. The only show of his Haki was in the flashback as a kid when he used Conquerors Haki.

Light Bro

@Md-Martin:

Yeah. None of that indicates that he mastered Haki. None of it. At all.

If someone had Haki and was fighting Ace it's useless if he can dodge their attacks. He might have mastered just observation Haki. He might not have had any formal training. The only show of his Haki was in the flashback as a kid when he used Conquerors Haki.

Whitebeard had mastered all three hakis, so why wouldn't he had trained Ace with them? Haki is really important surviving in the new world after all.

knceng

@Light:

Whitebeard had mastered all three hakis, so why wouldn't he had trained Ace with them? Haki is really important surviving in the new world after all.

100 times murder attempt? trying to not show favouritism?

Light Bro

@knceng:

100 times murder attempt? trying to not show favouritism?

After he took Whitebeard's mark I mean. Also he could've had one of the other commanders teach haki if he was too busy himself.

knceng

@Light:

After he took Whitebeard's mark I mean. Also he could've had one of the other commanders teach haki if he was too busy himself.

maybe he's still in learning process,… but seeing the situation, it's must be not an intense learning like luffy, because he have to familiarize himself with WB's territory and other division / adaptation process. plus, ace got that blackbeard situation.

IlanZ

@Md-Martin:

Yeah. None of that indicates that he mastered Haki. None of it. At all.

If someone had Haki and was fighting Ace it's useless if he can dodge their attacks. He might have mastered just observation Haki. He might not have had any formal training. The only show of his Haki was in the flashback as a kid when he used Conquerors Haki.

You said big player. None of those point to haki, but point to being a big player.

lello4ever

it sounds weird that ace, one of the most powerful pirates in one piece, had no haki training. it would've put him at great disadvantage in the new world, were most of the strong guys has haki. sure, oda didn't show any haki, but that's almost the same for everybody else until the sabaody saga. i would call it a change in oda's overll haki picture more than proof that ace didn't had haki.

Sereques

I'm still surprise someone like Robin can't use Haki yet. She's almost 30yrs old, she's very calm and listens to what surrounds her and she spent two years with Dragon. My thought is she should have develop some level by now.

Django

@Sereques:

I'm still surprise someone like Robin can't use Haki yet. She's almost 30yrs old, she's very calm and listens to what surrounds her and she spent two years with Dragon. My thought is she should have develop some level by now.

We don't know what Robin did for her 2 years.

knceng

@Sereques:

I'm still surprise someone like Robin can't use Haki yet. She's almost 30yrs old, she's very calm and listens to what surrounds her and she spent two years with Dragon. My thought is she should have develop some level by now.

with luffy's method of training, i can see why robin can't use it… her 2 years probably used to master her DF.
well, if she can placed her eyes and ears in the wall, it will act the same as observation haki....

Sereques

@knceng:

with luffy's method of training, i can see why robin can't use it… her 2 years probably used to master her DF.
well, if she can placed her eyes and ears in the wall, it will act the same as observation haki....

I know she improved with her DF. She just seem like the kind of person that will get the hang of it quicker. Even someone as weak as Tashigi got the hang of it a bit.

Shadowgreed

@Sereques:

I'm still surprise someone like Robin can't use Haki yet. She's almost 30yrs old, she's very calm and listens to what surrounds her and she spent two years with Dragon. My thought is she should have develop some level by now.

Robin might have developed Observation Haki, we are just waiting for a verbal confirmation

akagami7

@Shadowgreed:

Robin might have developed Observation Haki, we are just waiting for a verbal confirmation

16 chars of verbal confirmation
@YonkouProductions:

Q: This might be out of nowhere, but who in the Strawhate Pirates can use Haki? It's bothering me and I can't activate my "Love Hurricane".
ODA: It's these three. Their specialty haki color is in the parentheses. (TN: Picture of Luffy (Hao-shoku Haki), Zoro (Buso-shoku Haki), Sannji (Kennbunn-shoku Haki) )

Shadowgreed

@akagami7:

16 chars of verbal confirmation

how long was this question answered?

akagami7

@Shadowgreed:

how long was this question answered?

a few minutes/hours ago in the volume 71 thread

Swordsman LUCY

Posted this in the vol. 71 thread, figured it be better here.

You know, despite Luffy's Coc specialty, he seems to use all haki more than anyone. I don't think I've even seen Zoro's swords harden or Sanji dodge a barrage of projectiles in place…I wonder, do you guys think that if Robin learned Haki ( I highly doubt it'll ever happen) would it effect her fleur hands? As in, would she be able to strangle Logias?

Regarding the above Coo discussion, she could theoretically develop her DF to the point where everywhere she goes is covered with ears and eyes in hidden places, making CoO redundant.

Drazgoon

@Swordsman:

Regarding the above Coo discussion, she could theoretically develop her DF to the point where everywhere she goes is covered with ears and eyes in hidden places, making CoO redundant.

CoO is also predicting what your enemy will do in the future, how and where their muscles will move. More eyes is just seeing what you already see.

RomanceDawn

@Swordsman:

Posted this in the vol. 71 thread, figured it be better here.

You know, despite Luffy's Coc specialty, he seems to use all haki more than anyone. I don't think I've even seen Zoro's swords harden or Sanji dodge a barrage of projectiles in place…I wonder, do you guys think that if Robin learned Haki ( I highly doubt it'll ever happen) would it effect her fleur hands? As in, would she be able to strangle Logias?

Regarding the above Coo discussion, she could theoretically develop her DF to the point where everywhere she goes is covered with ears and eyes in hidden places, making CoO redundant.

Its not dodging but like I said earlier Sanji has displayed tons of CoO. It wasn't dodging in a fight but it was CoO all the same. Though I'm still trying to figure out some of his fight with Vergo, seems like a little CoO went on there as well.

desa

@RomanceDawn:

Its not dodging but like I said earlier Sanji has displayed tons of CoO. It wasn't dodging in a fight but it was CoO all the same. Though I'm still trying to figure out some of his fight with Vergo, seems like a little CoO went on there as well.

Where did see you color of observation on this fight?

Any way I reslly am dissapointed that Luffy isn't best at armement haki.

Ice-Man

^
Maybe 'cause Sanji sensed that Vergo attacked G5 and Tashigi especially, thanks to the Kenbunshoku Haki?

Enzeru

@akagami7:

16 chars of verbal confirmation

Another crew member could still be capable of using Haki. Oda just decided to not reveal such an important fact in an SBS.

Kishido

@Enzeru:

Another crew member could still be capable of using Haki. Oda just decided to not reveal such an important fact in an SBS.

Luffy confirming only Zoro, Sanji and him can use haki in the freaking manga… Naah doesn't mean anything.

Oda confiming it once again in the SBS NOW... Naah doesn't mean anything.

Yup most likely someone other has it as well and not even Luffy knows it

desa

@Ice-Man:

^
Maybe 'cause Sanji sensed that Vergo attacked G5 and Tashigi especially, thanks to the Kenbunshoku Haki?

He was talking about the fight from what I understand. But I might have been wrong.

Shadowgreed

@akagami7:

a few minutes/hours ago in the volume 71 thread

More like I won't tell you who else can use it because I want to surprise you and I'm inclined to Robin having Observation for the hints we had during PH and her way of living i the past also it be really strange If she came back from training with Dragon and not having at least Observation Haki

@desa:

Any way I reslly am dissapointed that Luffy isn't best at armement haki.

In my opinion it says a lot about Luffy, we have seen him using Observation and Armament and we know that is strong and yet that's not his best feature when it comes to Haki also it makes sense for him to be best in Kings haki since his ambition is beyond expectations

akagami7

@Enzeru:

Another crew member could still be capable of using Haki. Oda just decided to not reveal such an important fact in an SBS.

then he would be more vague, besides he has had tiem more than enough to show whether anyone besides those three has learned haki, they can still learn it from here on so I don't see the problem.

Kishido

@akagami7:

then he would be more vague, besides he has had tiem more than enough to show whether anyone besides those three has learned haki, they can still learn it from here on so I don't see the problem.

Yeah don't see the problem as well… They can learn it later on to progress while the monster trio has to master it even more seeing as they are the main fighting force of the SHs

akagami7

@Shadowgreed:

More like I won't tell you who else can use it because I want to surprise you

so he lied or what, if he meant that he would be vague, ignore the question, hitn at them not being the only ones who can use them or simply not including the question in the sbs.

I'm inclined to Robin having Observation for the hints we had during PH and her way of living i the past

what hints are you talking about

also it be really strange If she came back from training with Dragon and not having at least Observation Haki

no it wouldn't, you talk as if haki is the only thing she could learn of dragon

Whackadoodle

@Swordsman:

I don't think I've even seen Zoro's swords harden

Enzeru

@akagami7:

then he would be more vague, besides he has had tiem more than enough to show whether anyone besides those three has learned haki, they can still learn it from here on so I don't see the problem.

Then Robin's scene in PH (i.e. her sensing the explosion before it happens) is probably just her slowly awakening Kenbunshoku.

King Cannon

@Enzeru:

Another crew member could still be capable of using Haki. Oda just decided to not reveal such an important fact in an SBS.

You know, he could have just ignored the question altogether and replaced it with another penis joke. He is the one who decides which ones get answered and published after all.

If Robin indeed had CoO and answering that question would result in a spoiler, then it would be better to simply avoid the question instead of lying, wouldn't it?

Enzeru

@King:

You know, he could have just ignored the question altogether and replaced it with another penis joke. He is the one who decides which ones get answered and published after all.

If Robin indeed had CoO and answering that question would result in a spoiler, then it would be better to simply avoid the question instead of lying, wouldn't it?

It just seemed odd to me that only the monster trio could use Haki, given that one Robin scene I mentioned (and her being aware of Haki's existence and definition). But if it's really just the three of them who can use it, I'm fine with it too. I expect at least one other crew member to learn it down the line anyway.

akagami7

@Enzeru:

Then Robin's scene in PH (i.e. her sensing the explosion before it happens) is probably just her slowly awakening Kenbunshoku.

she still wouldn't qualify as user and would have to start developing it which is exactly my point, the rest of the crew can learn it form now on, they didn't learn it during the timeskip like luffy, zoro and sanji did.

Jabra

@akagami7:

what hints are you talking about

He probably means the panel where Robin shows a reaction before the D block explodes:

!
Anyway, confirmed is confirmed.
At first it makes no sense that someone like Robin didn't learn CoO during her childhood or the timeskip, but if we think about it she actually never had a reason to. She can spawn eyes and ears ever since to observe her surroundings, there was simply no need to develop some "super awareness" skill to escape the government.

Sanji on the other hand got chased day and night for 2 years, and he had no devil fruit ability to observe his surroundings. He had to rely on his senses alone, so it doesn't surprise me that he learned CoO without being taught by a haki legend. He mastered it naturally, at least I doubt that Ivankov or any of the Okamas bothered to teach him anything but cooking recipes.

akagami7

@Jabra:

He probably means the panel where Robin shows a reaction before the D block explodes:

! http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/70-694.0/compressed/i010.jpg

wait there is a sound effect there what does ズズズズズ means

Anyway, confirmed is confirmed.
At first it makes no sense that someone like Robin didn't learn CoO during her childhood or the timeskip, but if we think about it she actually never had a reason to. She can spawn eyes and ears ever since to observe her surroundings, there was simply no need to develop some "super awareness" skill to escape the government.

yeah, we also know he didn't learn it as of fishman island because then she would've noticed cariboo.

King Cannon

Nobody except the Monster Trio had the kind of training that required awakening Haki.

Brook wasn't going to develop CoA by releasing new hit singles.

Enzeru

@akagami7:

wait there is a sound effect there what does ズズズズズ means

According to triple C
@CCC:

I actually noticed that while translating. The sfx in that panel are "zu zu zu zu" which are used for deadly silence, right BEFORE something major happens. So it's NOT the case that the explosion happened, Robin noticed, and then we see it in the next panel. She noticed before it happened.

MiyamotoMusashi

Well, that certainly can be interpreted both ways

Dododo

Wouldn't it take a long time to develop some basic haki skills? And maybe even a teacher?

I seriously doubt the rest of the SH will learn Haki. Maybe if there is another timeskip, but chances are this isn't going to happen.

And well, they don't need it. They will fight minor characters ( if they get a fight at all) and they should be capable to do that with the powers they have right now. It's not like Chopper is going to fight several Logia's in the future.