Maybe this should be in the chapter discussion thread but something just hit me in the head. We all know that One Piece is getting darker and darker (much like Harry Potter but let's hope One Piece won't go there) an if you notice, Sabaody arc is a "Rougher and Wilder" arc, here we see the new violence situation that we never saw before (slavery, abuse, discrimination, brutally, middle finger) and I got something about Luffy. We all know Luffy is innocent and good-natured but due to the current chapter, I get a feeling that Oda might try something darker in the future but please don't kill me. Remember how Harry Potter never kills anyone but one person (the name I forgot)? What happens if Oda has Luffy killing someone for once (not Charlos but someone else). And I don't mean to compare One Piece to Harry Potter, I'm just providing an example.
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Luffy's Dark Side?
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I doubt Luffy will ever kill anyone. His divine smack downs seem punishment enough. The thing is though, Luffy never tries NOT to kill people, they just always end up surviving. Take Luffy's bazooka for instance. One would think that launching devil fruit users in the ocean would kill them, but somehow Buggy and Wapol survive unharmed. Why? Because oda say so. It's not Luffy that's keeping them alive. It's Oda. And I don't expect Oda to change his opinion on this matter.
Also, I disagree with your statement that One Piece is getting "darker." The most shockingly violent moment in the entire series was Nami's flashback way back in Arlong Park. Nothing we have seen since has been as traumatically explicit. Heck, the only major injury sustained in TB was due to cute little bubble paws.
If anything, the series has been toned down lately.
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When I first read the Chapter, I had the flash of my mind of Luffy telling Zoro, "Kill everyone in here that's not one of us or a slave," but then I slapped myself.
Luffy is a kid at heart. He knows the realism of the world, but he's not a cold-hearted murderer. He's someone who believes in his dream and will go to great lengths to achieve it. He's not going to kill someone out of anger; at most, he'll beat them to within an inch of their life.
The only "killer" personas I can see in the crew, for that matter, are Robin and Zoro. Chopper is a kid, and while Sanji, Nami and Franky get easily pissed, they're not the killer type. Nor is Brooke or Usopp. Usopp is a slightly more mature Luffy, but he's not the killer personality.
Robin and Zoro… well, both have already killed people before, and are "dark" and serious enough to understand the implications of murder. Robin only kills when it's necessary, but Zoro often uses excessive force, straining his opponent and himself. That's just his nature.
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@Fire Fist:
When I first read the Chapter, I had the flash of my mind of Luffy telling Zoro, "Kill everyone in here that's not one of us or a slave," but then I slapped myself.
Luffy is a kid at heart. He knows the realism of the world, but he's not a cold-hearted murderer. He's someone who believes in his dream and will go to great lengths to achieve it. He's not going to kill someone out of anger; at most, he'll beat them to within an inch of their life.
The only "killer" personas I can see in the crew, for that matter, are Robin and Zoro. Chopper is a kid, and while Sanji, Nami and Franky get easily pissed, they're not the killer type. Nor is Brooke or Usopp. Usopp is a slightly more mature Luffy, but he's not the killer personality.
Robin and Zoro… well, both have already killed people before, and are "dark" and serious enough to understand the implications of murder. Robin only kills when it's necessary, but Zoro often uses excessive force, straining his opponent and himself. That's just his nature.
Couldn't have said it any better!
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Throwing his punches at will, his intention is to kill. If he want to demobilize someone, he can hit the limps.
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Cherry!
Strawberry one the Shortcake!
Blueberry Cheese Brownie!
Cranberry Chocolate Sunday!
Anarchy in the Galaxy!Wait, wrong Darkside.
In all seriousness I agree with "Fire Fist" Ace. Luffy is a kid, etc, etc.
Yet, I would love to see Luffy one day pick up a sword, and accidentally drop it off a five story building, and slice someone in two…but that won't happen, unless it is Buggy. -
hmmm.. the "darkest" i've ever seen Luffy is in movie six… when he goes completely nuts on Baron Omatsuri.
The second the scared pirate dad shoots Lily and all the arrows go away and stuff.... Luffy is right in that guys face with one of the hardest punches i've ever seen him throw.
At that point Luffy wasn't even sure if he'd ever see his Nakama again...
The punch itself had absolutely no restraint.. and i'm sure Luffy would not have cared if it was fatal. (i have no idea.. since the translation I watched was sort of Vague on the Baron living from it or not. The movie itself avoided giving a direct answer to this)
I agree with Boiga in the fact that when Luffy deals out his punishment to the worst offenders... he doesn't hold back. His damage output is based off his anger and desire to simply pummel said offender. If they die then they die.
Now the Intent to kill is a different story. Cause Luffy could very much throw a death dealing punch in my opinion. If he really wanted. And the closest thing i've seen to this would be the Baron. Luffy was simply filled with anger and hatred towards that man..
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^ Not really canon though.
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The different between Luffy and others is:
Luffy will try to hit his opponent one shot to K.O. him, If you die, that because you are damn weak.
He is not the type of person that give his opponent another shot to ensure he is dead.If some get kill by luffy, thats mean this fellow are deserve to die!!!
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I understand what is the point of this all, but isn't it sth like creating Darth Vader? FFA said it - Luffy is just a kid and sometimes looses his emotions - Carlos for example - and kick some asses veeeeery hard. BUT NO INTENTION TO KILL. If he would like to kill (which is against Oda's philosophy, but that is the other part) let's say Carlos, then Luffy could go Gear and kick Carlos so that even his dentist would not recognise him…
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@joekido:
We all know Luffy is innocent and good-natured but due to the current chapter, I get a feeling that Oda might try something darker in the future but please don't kill me.
Luffy's always had a dark side to his seemingly positive portrayal by Oda; in fact, I'd say he's probably the darkest character of the whole Straw Hat lot. As "Fire Fist" Ace pointed out in the CD, Shanks' line "We're pirates, not saints." You can tell this in that Luffy is exceedingly selfish and rather inconsiderate of the feelings of other people, comrades included, and he really only sticks his neck out for comrades. He's not driven by some profound empathetic recognition of a man's will in other people - there's been injustice done around him before and he hasn't lifted a finger to help those people, not just in Seabody but back in Whisky Peak and Skypiea as well. I take this to be that Luffy sees his friends like possessions, and his "defense" of his friends and drive to help them out/get them back stems more from the childish impulse of, "they're mine!" like possessions rather than some bond of friendship. If one notices Luffy's actions, he really doesn't give a darn about his friend's feelings or intentions, so long as they follow him - he's never around when someone's history is explained and he even walked away when Nami's was about to be. He doesn't care. A lot of characters in the story take this to mean Luffy is good-willed, but I see it as childish and an interesting angle to his character.
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hmmm.. the "darkest" i've ever seen Luffy is in movie six… when he goes completely nuts on Baron Omatsuri.
The second the scared pirate dad shoots Lily and all the arrows go away and stuff.... Luffy is right in that guys face with one of the hardest punches i've ever seen him throw.
At that point Luffy wasn't even sure if he'd ever see his Nakama again...
The punch itself had absolutely no restraint.. and i'm sure Luffy would not have cared if it was fatal. (i have no idea.. since the translation I watched was sort of Vague on the Baron living from it or not. The movie itself avoided giving a direct answer to this)
I agree with Boiga in the fact that when Luffy deals out his punishment to the worst offenders... he doesn't hold back. His damage output is based off his anger and desire to simply pummel said offender. If they die then they die.
Now the Intent to kill is a different story. Cause Luffy could very much throw a death dealing punch in my opinion. If he really wanted. And the closest thing i've seen to this would be the Baron. Luffy was simply filled with anger and hatred towards that man..
I wouldn't call that "dark" I'd call it being extremely pissed. Which Luffy certainly was. Plus he only punched him in the face like once. A really hard punch but it certainly wasn't as brutal as some of the other stuff he has done to people. I actually expected him to go all out considering I don't think anyone has ever done something so awful to him and the others before.
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i don
t rly think that we can talk about a "dark side" of luffy….cmon every human and every shonen-chara should be pissed sometimes and thinking about the world nobles...every1 should be more than pissed by these guysbut i see also some changes in the series...it
s getting more adult like and this feeling is climbing up in me right after they reached the sabaody-island.. in my opinion oda wont be the 1 who now change everything which he clear said won`t be in the manner fans would like it...thats for sure...but we will sure feel a differenceanother point of mine is that luffy was 17 at the beginning and still is.....but oda knows that the readers grow and so he has to do with his charas the same(like DB did it with showing them as adults)...so to hold his huge amount of readers which started this series like me from the beginning(and so in a teenie-age) oda now will sure also let his main charas grow a little bit and like we see he will bring more adult-themes into the play(slavery,WAAR!!,racism for example so far)
but oda will find a way that still children can go through the series...i mean in the end it`s still a shonen(but personally i think that it could be the first mix between shonen and seinen at the end of this series)
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Luffy is already dark enough.He knows that the most humiliating thing(in their world) is to be crashed,defeated AND live with it.Not to be killed.To have your dream,position,pride destroyed by other dream and to live with that in mind is the most severe punishment in their world(of course we ARE counting insane pounding,like on Croc and Lucchi.But that is just icing on the cake).
And death is like eat and forget.Antagonists will not feel any inner pain.And thats not enough. -
Luffy is fine so long as everyone is willing to have fun. And who can't agree he really did want to step in with the WN's were abusing their slaves in chapter 498.
While its of no intereast to him if a man kills a stranger in front of him, if a man kills his wife and them cuts up her body or pissed on her corpse in front of him then he would care. He isn't Jesus and won't put himself to correct the rights and wrongs of the world, just as he couldn't have given it a second thought for Vivi's country as it was beyond his interest, but fate made her his friend and Nami got greedy. All the same, once Luffy was on it, though and behold it was saved and it was indeed a great thing in deed.
He knows death must come, but while he doesn't believe in heroics but most of his reasons for attacking people are justified. And lets face it, Bellamy diserved that punch it was just a matter of when Luffy felt it was time to end the smack down between them. Luffy lives by the rules of "regret nothing" and if he did kill someone it would never be out of cold blood anyway and he would never think twice about it. Whats done is done, time to move on.
The only time was Usopp's departure, but you must remember Luffy wants an elite crew and Usopp's a dam good sniper. On top of that, Usopp and Luffy had always been the closet friends on the GM. Incidently, friends is his main reason for giving you a smack, bam and whalloping.
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Luffy's always had a dark side to his seemingly positive portrayal by Oda; in fact, I'd say he's probably the darkest character of the whole Straw Hat lot. As "Fire Fist" Ace pointed out in the CD, Shanks' line "We're pirates, not saints." You can tell this in that Luffy is exceedingly selfish and rather inconsiderate of the feelings of other people, comrades included, and he really only sticks his neck out for comrades. He's not driven by some profound empathetic recognition of a man's will in other people - there's been injustice done around him before and he hasn't lifted a finger to help those people, not just in Seabody but back in Whisky Peak and Skypiea as well. I take this to be that Luffy sees his friends like possessions, and his "defense" of his friends and drive to help them out/get them back stems more from the childish impulse of, "they're mine!" like possessions rather than some bond of friendship. If one notices Luffy's actions, he really doesn't give a darn about his friend's feelings or intentions, so long as they follow him - he's never around when someone's history is explained and he even walked away when Nami's was about to be. He doesn't care. A lot of characters in the story take this to mean Luffy is good-willed, but I see it as childish and an interesting angle to his character.
What the f… this is one of the most interesting things I've ever read regarding One Piece. I never stopped to consider a selfish motive for Luffy's actions because he's always putting his life on the line for his dream and his crew. I can't say I "agree" but I give you major credit. Fascinating.
In fact this whole thread is extremely interesting. Great posts all around.
Luffy seems really innocent to me, driven by his ambition and simply being insensitive to repercussions and emotions. Does that make him dark? Is there any kind of "cruelty" there? Any sadism? Any big ego? I don't think so. If he wanted to be cruel or egotistical he's had tons of chances, but unlike most pirates he doesn't have ego and actually shows a lot of mercy. I think he expects everyone around him to be tough enough to handle the cold hard truths of life, and still plow forward. This was easily seen with the way he handled Ussopp during Enies Lobby. "If you don't like my decision, leave."
Then, after kicking Usopp's ass in the duel, he just says "Heavy!!" And Zoro (awesomely) says "That's what a captain is." (SEE HERE) Of course he cried about it (here) but the fact is that he does what he has to do. And although he is "childish" in many ways, he certainly is a man's man when push comes to shove and something truly important comes up… And actually, I think that's how Shanks is too. They have their priorities straight, and don't spare people's feelings.
VOTE FOR THE STRONGEST MAN IN THE WORLD
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just like some of you mentioned here - they are pirates, they are not saints and Luffy isn't Jesus. they won't save the whole world. they want to have adventures and fullfil their own dreams. so the reason why Luffy could be dark is someone killing one of his nakama - then he could just let it all go and kill that person…
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luffy is secretly a poo poo-meanie and is gonna take your lunch money
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Luffy's always had a dark side to his seemingly positive portrayal by Oda; in fact, I'd say he's probably the darkest character of the whole Straw Hat lot. As "Fire Fist" Ace pointed out in the CD, Shanks' line "We're pirates, not saints." You can tell this in that Luffy is exceedingly selfish and rather inconsiderate of the feelings of other people, comrades included, and he really only sticks his neck out for comrades. He's not driven by some profound empathetic recognition of a man's will in other people - there's been injustice done around him before and he hasn't lifted a finger to help those people, not just in Seabody but back in Whisky Peak and Skypiea as well. I take this to be that Luffy sees his friends like possessions, and his "defense" of his friends and drive to help them out/get them back stems more from the childish impulse of, "they're mine!" like possessions rather than some bond of friendship. If one notices Luffy's actions, he really doesn't give a darn about his friend's feelings or intentions, so long as they follow him - he's never around when someone's history is explained and he even walked away when Nami's was about to be. He doesn't care. A lot of characters in the story take this to mean Luffy is good-willed, but I see it as childish and an interesting angle to his character.
Wait… what? errr. when? could you jusmpstart my memory? All I recall about that is Luffy getting pissed at Zoro for attacking the bounty hunters despite their hospitality. (and at little garden getting pissed at the BW agents because they harm the giants in a very despicable way.. he doesn't see the giants as his, does he?)
At skypiea he gives Conis a piece of his mind after she warns them despite the danger in doing so...Who exactly was the target of this injustice he did not lift a finger against?
What the…? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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And although he is "childish" in many ways, he certainly is a man's man when push comes to shove and something truly important comes up… And actually, I think that's how Shanks is too. They have their priorities straight, and don't spare people's feelings.
yeah thats the point…luffy is shown as a childish chara which always prefer to have fun without thinking about any consequences...but he make a 180degrees turn when thinks getting worse...
Luffy seems really innocent to me, driven by his ambition and simply being insensitive to repercussions and emotions. Does that make him dark? Is there any kind of "cruelty" there? Any sadism? Any big ego?
i don
t know how you guys consider some1 as dark,evil or bad… but sure luffy isnt the type who couldnt live anymore when he sees something cruel befor his eyes.. but why should he care for everything?? i mean he is still the type who is quick with making friendship with some1 and than risking his own life and that of his crewmates to protect that person(vivi,camie..and his crew mates before they joined, for example)...wouldnt name that as egoistic...:getlost: also that he dont even want to talk about his actions in enies lobby to shakky doesnt seems to me that either...
to the ussop-accident ...cmon making a clear decision is the task of every captn,who couldnt handle this shouldnt fight for his life for that captn..still in this point zoro is the 1 who have their the "control"...he has a clear vision about how a captn should handle his crewmates..even luffy isnt rly such a captn who has to have the last word,in such essential decisions luffy knows he has to handle it in zoro`s vision or he will quick loose his nakamas .." You can tell this in that Luffy is exceedingly selfish and rather inconsiderate of the feelings of other people, comrades included, and he really only sticks his neck out for comrades. He's not driven by some profound empathetic recognition of a man's will in other people - there's been injustice done around him before and he hasn't lifted a finger to help those people, not just in Seabody but back in Whisky Peak and Skypiea as well.
For other people luffy sure don
t care that much….but who would?? he isnt some knight who goes from island to island and trys to erase all evil...luffy know that their is enough evil and sadness around him but why should he care for them when he have his own dream..most of this people think anyways that hes just a regular pirate..and in the end he IS A PIRATE...some pirate who dont care about murdering people or robbing islands....but most of the time luffy get to know somebody and than he cares for this guy or girl no matter how thick his\her problems are"defense" of his friends and drive to help them out/get them back stems more from the childish impulse of, "they're mine!" like possessions rather than some bond of friendship.
how many times is it stated in the manga that luffy knows that without the unique ability s of each nakama he won´t be able to fulfill his dream..so at least we could see it more as a partnership of convenience
but than why dont he act more like a real captn…i mean the scenes on the sea and a lot of other panels show us how amicable luffy operate with his nakamas...dont rly see their a selffish behaviour from luffy or any sign that he dont rly see them all as his friends ...sure some more and some lessIf one notices Luffy's actions, he really doesn't give a darn about his friend's feelings or intentions, so long as they follow him - he's never around when someone's history is explained and he even walked away when Nami's was about to be.
okay here we need some proof i think:getlost: show us more than 1 scene which gives you that impression
and why luffy don
t listen to the history of some of his nakama ( robins he heard)
i personally rly see their any problem..in namis case its even more a proof of his deep friendship
luffy dont NEED to know anything about a person so that he could trust this person…he makes his decision rly early about how far i could trust a person...and after this ,he wont give a shiat about what other say to that person..he stands behind his decision...he never believed that nami is a evil witch orso...
i believe that he dont wanted to know namis story cause for him it doesnt make any difference
he trusted her before and he dont need a proof why she reacted in an other way..he dont need to hear that she had a hard childhood,that she cant be different now to him... luffy only knows that he could trust his feelings and he just waits that the other person also starts to believe in him:happy: not because he doesnt give a darn about some1 history..he just accepts the person how she is in the present...without judging them cause of their history....for me thats a rly loyal way to be a friend....:wassat:Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_
IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley
UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop
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meybe 1 day luffys bad side will come out of him and tehy will fite each other for one piece
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@Don:
okay here we need some proof i think:getlost: show us more than 1 scene which gives you that impression
Well he was talking about this pictures.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/4/06/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/9/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/9/15/http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/77/02/
They can give the impression that Luffy is treating his friends as his possession. However they don't have to. The thing that he doesn't know about Namis past is something else I never understood about One Piece.
Not just Luffy but all the Strawheads do not seem to be interested in any kind of way about the ways of they friends previous to the day they joined the crew. They obviously never tell each other anything about their adventures. Chopper, Robin and Franky never even heard the name Laboon before they they were told about him at Thriller Bark. Especially that Upssop never told Chopper any heroic adventures seems kinda unrealistic. But they really seem uninterested in everything besides staying together and fulfilling they own dream.
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first 3 pics they weren
t even friends at that point:getlost: last pic i explained my point of view in my last post and yeah could be seen as egoistic but to base luffys chara on this pics is just…mhh luffy always reacts so when somebody trys to tell him something...he doesnt accept some arguments (or dont even listen to them) thats true...but in the end we see that even if they handle against their first will theyre all glad at the end with their life as pirates
butas a conclusion a "dark" chara their out of luffy is just over reading the whole thing and overreacting to some jokes oda made with luffys sure "childish" chara.......... -
The thing that he doesn't know about Namis past is something else I never understood about One Piece.
It's because it didn't matter to him. Nami is his nakama, and as soon as she wanted his help, he was going to help her. That's all he needed to know.
Luffy isn't a guy who worries about the facts.
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Luffy's always had a dark side to his seemingly positive portrayal by Oda; in fact, I'd say he's probably the darkest character of the whole Straw Hat lot. As "Fire Fist" Ace pointed out in the CD, Shanks' line "We're pirates, not saints." You can tell this in that Luffy is exceedingly selfish and rather inconsiderate of the feelings of other people, comrades included, and he really only sticks his neck out for comrades. He's not driven by some profound empathetic recognition of a man's will in other people - there's been injustice done around him before and he hasn't lifted a finger to help those people, not just in Seabody but back in Whisky Peak and Skypiea as well. I take this to be that Luffy sees his friends like possessions, and his "defense" of his friends and drive to help them out/get them back stems more from the childish impulse of, "they're mine!" like possessions rather than some bond of friendship. If one notices Luffy's actions, he really doesn't give a darn about his friend's feelings or intentions, so long as they follow him - he's never around when someone's history is explained and he even walked away when Nami's was about to be. He doesn't care. A lot of characters in the story take this to mean Luffy is good-willed, but I see it as childish and an interesting angle to his character.
This is certainly an interesting perspective, Malintex, and it's always a pleasure to read your posts. I have to disagree with you on the idea that he does not care about the feelings of his nakama, with Nami in Arlong park, you are overcomplicating his lack of interest in her backstory, as he was simply so focused on fixing her present that he didn't need to know. The final actions of the Arlong fight demonstrate rather obviously that he cared quite a bit about Nami's feelings. The same applies with Robin. If he viewed Robin as a possession, when she had declared that she wanted to die, he would not have said that he was fine with her doing so if that's what she really wanted as long as she was with them, since, obviously, he'd no longer 'possess' her. He didn't need to know her backstory, and he didn't care, because he makes character judgments and then sticks with his judgments, in Nami's case, her sad past didn't matter, in Robin's, her supposedly evil cursed past didn't matter. Luffy had decided that they should be his nakama, and went with it.
Is there a darker side to Luffy? Yes, certainly, in the same sense as there's a darker side to Vash the Stampede, but he's not a selfish asshole.
The whole point of not caring about each other's past is that they are all pirates, and pirates have pasts, once you're one of Luffy's nakama, he doesn't care what kind of person you were in the past, and he demonstrates this to the point that he isn't even interested in the stories and will walk away from them.
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Luffy has no dark side, he's just childish and headstrong, he has a strong sense of justice but i can't ever see him going against what he wants to do. And because he's kind hearted, it will never involve hurting innocents.
Luffy won't ever kill. That's a given. Neither will Sanji (black leg suggests no one will ever die by his leg), Usopp (not given real bullets for a reason) or Chopper (he's a doctor). I'd say it's pretty much open territory for the rest of the crew.
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This is certainly an interesting perspective, Malintex, and it's always a pleasure to read your posts. I have to disagree with you on the idea that he does not care about the feelings of his nakama, with Nami in Arlong park, you are overcomplicating his lack of interest in her backstory, as he was simply so focused on fixing her present that he didn't need to know. The final actions of the Arlong fight demonstrate rather obviously that he cared quite a bit about Nami's feelings. The same applies with Robin. If he viewed Robin as a possession, when she had declared that she wanted to die, he would not have said that he was fine with her doing so if that's what she really wanted as long as she was with them, since, obviously, he'd no longer 'possess' her. He didn't need to know her backstory, and he didn't care, because he makes character judgments and then sticks with his judgments, in Nami's case, her sad past didn't matter, in Robin's, her supposedly evil cursed past didn't matter. Luffy had decided that they should be his nakama, and went with it.
Is there a darker side to Luffy? Yes, certainly, in the same sense as there's a darker side to Vash the Stampede, but he's not a selfish asshole.
The whole point of not caring about each other's past is that they are all pirates, and pirates have pasts, once you're one of Luffy's nakama, he doesn't care what kind of person you were in the past, and he demonstrates this to the point that he isn't even interested in the stories and will walk away from them.
Good posts Malintex, theinvisibleworm.
Malintex, I think your point of view is interesting but: "I rather think you've been watching too many films". (Dunno if you're a Pegg and Frost fan but if you're not, check out Hot Fuzz and Shaun of the Dead posthaste.)
I think the truth is much simpler as theinvisibleworm pointed out much more betterer than I could.
Once Luffy sees what his potential nakama could be- he no longer cares about what the person they were- only the person they can be. While he may not fully understand the implications of their past actions (or not know their history at all in some cases) he has a knack for finding "good people" and being a good judge of character.
Lucky for us Luffy really is a good guy because in an alternative universe, Evil Luffy is assembling an Empire of Evil Mugiwara's to be a powerful force for Evil in the galax- err sea.
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Luffy is a friendly protagonist
People generally don't die when you beat the shit out of them in One Piece
Luffy beats the shit out of people
People who Luffy beats the shit out of generally don't die
Luffy doesn't kill people
He is a friendly protagonist
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One Piece is not that deep of a story :getlost:
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And I still wonder why I can't make threads
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In my opinion,
Luffy doesn't care about killing or not killing, he's not like Kenshin.
I mean, the moment he threw Lucci out into the ocean w/ G3 pistol, if there weren't ships around and Lucci fell into the ocean, u think Luffy would actually care enough to tell ppl to save him? no, Lucci woulda jus died in the ocean.
Luffy just delivers beatdowns, if they live, good for them, if they don't oh well.
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Since when middle finger was a violent thing?
And I can't see why Oda would change Luffy's personality just now. I mean, he spent most of the series defeating his enemies without being forced to kill them.
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All I recall about that is Luffy getting pissed at Zoro for attacking the bounty hunters despite their hospitality.
Err, I was confusing Luffy with Zoro in that case.
(and at little garden getting pissed at the BW agents because they harm the giants in a very despicable way.. he doesn't see the giants as his, does he?)
No, but they were nice to him, and like in the Whisky Peak case Luffy's going to stand up for people who are nice to him. But he hasn't exactly risked his life thus far for someone who was just nice to him.
There was one example early in the story when he was touched by Shushu's dedication to his master, but that was the only incident of Luffy meddling in someone else's battle without having established a clear relationship and it happened early in the story before the "personalities" were fully hammered out by Oda.
Most of the characters Luffy ends up defending as "comrades" seem to be weak girls - Nami, Vivi, Conis, Camie (Conis + Nami??).
At skypiea he gives Conis a piece of his mind after she warns them despite the danger in doing so…
I'll have to review this, first thought is he's a "big kid" and can take care of himself.
Who exactly was the target of this injustice he did not lift a finger against?
I'm tempted to say something about Sky Island, but I think my memory is fogging the clear set of events, so I'll have to go re-read the series again. The modified answer is I think whenever there's been some sort of public humiliation or injustice, Luffy isn't around - even in this recent chapter, I thought "now Luffy's seen the Nobles being jerks to the pirates, this is evidence that he's pretty simple minded" but that's not the case, it's usually someone else who watches the brutality like Nami/Usopp/Sanji/Zoro, the more "mature" characters. Perhaps Oda doesn't want to drive Luffy into a situation where he has to decide like that?
I have to disagree with you on the idea that he does not care about the feelings of his nakama, with Nami in Arlong park, you are overcomplicating his lack of interest in her backstory, as he was simply so focused on fixing her present that he didn't need to know.
As I observed ^, I think it's a trend that Luffy tends to not hear a lot of the bad news about his crewmates, maybe to keep his child-like purity. In either case, though, I could say that Nami was in no condition to be Luffy's Navigator until he did something about Arlong, and he valued her so much he was willing to risk his life for her.
We know that most of the time, Luffy's not driven by some empathy of virtus for another character, though once in a while he is, but more often than not he's very over-protective of his stuff and his comrades. He's not entrusted his hat to anyone except for Nami, once - he's as fiercely protective of it as he is his friends. Luffy got mad when the Merry Go suffered from structural damage as well, I think both friends and possessions are defended with the same vigour.
The final actions of the Arlong fight demonstrate rather obviously that he cared quite a bit about Nami's feelings. The same applies with Robin. If he viewed Robin as a possession, when she had declared that she wanted to die, he would not have said that he was fine with her doing so if that's what she really wanted as long as she was with them, since, obviously, he'd no longer 'possess' her.
Well, the whole "as long as you're with us" talk circles back to the possession thing, but you did raise a point about Luffy permitting his comrades to leave or do other things. Even the most stubborn of child will end up having to admit they've lost something at one point or another, and I think that was the case with Usopp and then Robin - Usopp's heart wasn't that of a Straw Hat's anymore when he fought Luffy, so he was a "lost" possession that couldn't be retrieved. Luffy's callousness IMV was shown when he was more or less normal until he was reminded he lost Usopp, whereby he'd mope around for a couple panels then get over it. True that time heals all wounds, but Luffy acted like his friendship with Usopp didn't happen unless it was a matter specifically brought up. He didn't learn anything from the affair. Usopp was completely the opposite, his departure was almost always a focus of his character when he appeared.
For Robin, Luffy got the impression she was still acting against her will, he was all ready to give her up when Nami (?) told him the truth of the matter.
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What? Luffy saves people every arc, he cares too much.
The only dark side Luffy has is what he lets out in the toilet.
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Wat u talkin bout? if luffy killls someone, that'd be best thing ever happened because then we kno that luffy is not like thos normal main characters with stupid ideas like "ohhh i dont kill anyone but save the day in my way".
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Luffy is the shonen cliche of a hero. He hasn't shown the intent to kill anybody, hell he doesn't even act like a real pirate.
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Well he should act like a real pirate, he Should kill, steal, kidnap Etc.. Kid is a good example of a decent pirate.
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after Hatchi getting shot I think Luffy is pissed pretty bad. I think he'll try to hit carlos, or whatever his name was but he will miss because his spirit energy un-intentialy knocks everyone out exept old-man-silvers and then Luffy will meet him. Luffy frees him Camie all the slaves and Luffy gets a pony.
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Well he should act like a real pirate, he Should kill, steal, kidnap Etc..
Hence why Luffy doesn't have a "dark side."
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@Malintex:
But he hasn't exactly risked his life thus far for someone who was just nice to him.
What about Tonjit? the whole point of the Davyback fight was to get back at foxy for shooting Shirly or whatever that hooorse was named.
And Iceburg… If all Luffy did was care about Robin as a possession he would have beaten the crap out of Iceburg for telling those lies. Instead Luffy was willing to listen to what Iceburg had to say and find a way to resolve the whole thing without punching him.
I not sure I recall everything that happened in W7 correctly, but didn't Luffy try to help Paulie defend Iceburg against CP9?And Thriller bark he promises to help that old guy with a wound that looks like a zombie: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/449/04/
And that guy wasn't even nice to Luffy, he was just begging for help.@mdmartin101:
after Hatchi getting shot I think Luffy is pissed pretty bad. I think he'll try to hit carlos, or whatever his name was but he will miss because his spirit energy un-intentialy knocks everyone out exept old-man-silvers and then Luffy will meet him. Luffy frees him Camie all the slaves and Luffy gets a pony.
Did you miss something? He already hit Charlos, it was a spread over the last two pages in chapter 502.
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Luffy's Good. period. I doubt he ever killed someone, and i doubt someone will piss him off so bad that, it will be the last option and it will probably never come to it.
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In my opinion,
Luffy doesn't care about killing or not killing, he's not like Kenshin.
I mean, the moment he threw Lucci out into the ocean w/ G3 pistol, if there weren't ships around and Lucci fell into the ocean, u think Luffy would actually care enough to tell ppl to save him? no, Lucci woulda jus died in the ocean.
Luffy just delivers beatdowns, if they live, good for them, if they don't oh well.
This and some other posts need to get more attention.
What Luffy are some of you talking about?
He smashed his fist down on Crocodile's temple into a solid stone floor.
Broke Arlong's back with his Axe.
Smash Don Krieg's skull on the ship and was even suprised when Kried turned up alive.
Multiple strikes to Blueno's spine.
Cracked Kuro in half with a head-butt.
All of this without restraint. Luffy beats somebody until they can't move. Wether they're dead or not isn't of his concern and he doesn't even know the fate of most of these guys. As far as hes concerned he's already killed a handful of people.
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If one notices Luffy's actions, he really doesn't give a darn about his friend's feelings or intentions, so long as they follow him - he's never around when someone's history is explained and he even walked away when Nami's was about to be. He doesn't care.
If luffy had heard Nami's backstory he would have made sure Arlong died along with the rest of the fishmen and therefore hatchi would be deadf also making the current arc impossible. Thats why Luffy didnt want to hear nami's backstory, because Oda didnt want him to. He knew he needed to keep Hatchi alive. See how much of a genius Oda is?
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Motives. All Luffy did is for trying to win the heart of one piece fans for obvious commercial purpose. Dark agendas, Oda's puppet.
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Gorlom, all of those incidents could be explained by saying that he agreed to help because they were a common enemy anyway! If he doesn't like someone, he wants to kick their ass. The Pirate King does what he wants: you're either with him (like these people who ask for his help,) against him (like the people he hates,) or irrelevant to him.
I am sure this is more a matter of being insensitive and bullheaded than "good" OR "bad"; "light" OR "dark".
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Really? in what way was Foxy a "common enemy"? As I recall Luffy didn't know about Merry being trapped…
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He's just luffy and hes getting angrier on different time of the storyline imo
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Try not to get hung up on the words "common enemy"…
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/306/03/
and
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/318/16/…The shooting of the horse was the incident that triggered his rage and caused him to hate the guy, but you could easily make the case that he didn't do the whole thing on behalf of the old man in a fit of righteous indignation. Foxy was purposely provoking Luffy, and as a byproduct of doing what he wanted (ie. kicking Foxy's ass) he helped the old man and horse.
And again, even if it was all to help the old man, the old man was already established as friendly to Luffy – they were on the "same side". Luffy fights for those who are on his side, and that's not a noble action – it's selfish and biased. Thanks to Luffy's gullibility he will easily befriend people and stick up for them. The argument being that everyone who sides with Luffy is "a good guy", and everyone who provokes him is "bad", regardless of their ideology, justifications, or motives.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/223/17/
and
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/223/18/…And here is a case where Luffy is ready to fight over 'nothing'. Again it's an issue of pride, not right or wrong. Someone rubs him the wrong way so he's ready to kick their ass. He has no idea whether Blackbeard is a saint or the nastiest sombitch to roam the planet -- he is ready to kick his ass over a dispute of pure opinion. That's not heroic at all.
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