WOW!!!!!!!!!great chapter!!! thanx!!!!
Chapter 485 "Strawhat Crew Member: Pirate Hunter Zoro" Discussion
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Well, I wasn't really comparing the manliness of the crew… just Zoro to himself. Also, manly =/= physical strength, but the burning inner manly fires! Which of course Usopp has lots of.
Well, I wasn't referring to Usopp's ability to take the blow, I was referring to being able to get back up and deliver a speech in defense of his best friend AFTER taking said blow. That's pretty fucking manly.
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Enough about Zoro, how awesome does Brooke look in that chapter!!!!
also, am I the only one thinking that because he had the pain taken away luffy wont have a chance to heal and get stronger here? thats upsetting
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also, am I the only one thinking that because he had the pain taken away luffy wont have a chance to heal and get stronger here? thats upsetting
They're not saiyans so I think it should be okay.
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@Kidany:
They're not saiyans so I think it should be okay.
its not only with saiyans, its with any living being, take injury, heal, get stronger…
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its not only with saiyans, its with any living being, take injury, heal, get stronger…
Life, for the most part (95% of the time+), doesn't work that way.
Hate to break it to ya.
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@Yan:
Life, for the most part (95% of the time+), doesn't work that way.
Hate to break it to ya.
never heard of no pain no gain?
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Don't take that too literally.
Pain is your body's way of… You know what? I'm not getting into this. Read up about it on a wiki or something.
Otherwise, if you're thinking of muscle breakdown --> strengthening, then it makes a bit more sense. But it's not like when I injure my arms, I get stronger.
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its not only with saiyans, its with any living being, take injury, heal, get stronger…
I know that…but you made it seem like Luffy missed an "OMG ONCE IN A LIFETIME CHANCE" to gain strength when it obviously doesn't work like that. Everyone including Luffy will step up when they need to.
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Hah ha! That picture of Kuma chargin' his laza on page 7 is hilarious! I cannot wait to see that animated.
So, I don't really have anything else intellegent to say that hasn't been said already. Hopefully there'll only be a few more chapters of Thriller Bark, so that we can then move on to something else.
I found Brook being sandwiched in between those two boulders to be chuckle inducing.
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never heard of no pain no gain?
Are you trying to say that if Zoro lives, he will have like triple strength or something? Because that's just silly. If I stab you in the leg and you recover, you will not be faster.
And Crossword, I agree, I can't see TB lasting many more chapters. There's really nothing left to do except to heal Zoro, say bye to the Rolling Pirates, and get Brook to join.
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EDIT: whoops wrong thread…
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@Kma:
Its so hard to say… Both have such unique abilities. (of course Kuma is still mostly 90% mystery)
To me Kuma seems more of a one man army, capable of taking down a multitude of oponents but even more deadly when its mano to mano.
Moria on the other hand seems to be more of a strategist and uses his wits + power to win.
That being said, mano to mano, if they were pitted against each other without warning, I think Kuma would win.
However if they both knew they were fighting each other and had time to plan, I think Moria would win.
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=16209&page=14
wrong thread k bye
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@Impel:
Are you trying to say that if Zoro lives, he will have like triple strength or something? Because that's just silly. If I stab you in the leg and you recover, you will not be faster.
And Crossword, I agree, I can't see TB lasting many more chapters. There's really nothing left to do except to heal Zoro, say bye to the Rolling Pirates, and get Brook to join.
no more along the lines of getting into an intense fight and losing, healing and resting and getting stronger
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My apologies if this has already been stated before, but after reading the Franky House scanlation, Kuma's pain thing makes a lot more sense. I think it's actually related to his Paw/Pad power.
He has the power to repel/reflect anything with it, and him repeling pain and fatigue with it is really just a weird use of the power that reminds me of how Kalifa could "cleanse" strength away with her soap power.
Doesn't matter, his name is "Tyrant" Kuma. He is supposed to be a savage with no morales, damn it. He didn't even kill Zoro. He is a rip-off artist, I say.
In the past, when he was a pirate… everything we've heard about how brutal Kuma was used terms like that. It's possible for people to change their ways, and I don't think we ever heard anybody say he was like that anymore.
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And I disagree, Greg. Zoro's statement sounds more ambiguous, but leaning toward the prospect that he IS dying.
Scenario:
Zoro is hit by a ball of pain and fatigue the size of a shack that a melon-sized sphere of left him writhing on the ground. After taking the hit he can't really move much but he's standing with his arms crossed. He just risked his life and his dream to help his captain accomplish his goal. Upon everyone's awaking he has a chance to reveal the terrific ordeal he went through to protect his captain.
Sanji: What happened here?!
Zoro: nuhthing…...ad all...
Mother-fuckin' badass.
Gonna predict it now.
This is the first in a LOOOOOOOONG series of chapters that will see the crew put their loyalty to Luffy to the test. Each will have a similar title with their bounty name.
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I was just thinking the same thing, looking at the title. They might not be subsequent, but maybe chapters popping up here and there in the future.
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Enough about Zoro, how awesome does Brooke look in that chapter!!!!
also, am I the only one thinking that because he had the pain taken away luffy wont have a chance to heal and get stronger here? thats upsetting
You only see Brooke once. :s
But about Luffy, he's already strong enough, he beat Moria by himself taking only one hit from Moria. His crew are the ones that need to get stronger at the moment.
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I think that Zoro's "I will make Luffy the Pirate King!" statement was a lot like Ace's, if you even look at the panels.
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Yeah, it's exactly what I thought of a well. Interesting difference:
Ace says he'll 'make' him the 'king'.
Zoro says Luffy 'will be' the 'pirate king'.
I think Oda was saving the latter line for a time he could use it with the SH crew. That way it doesn't sound like ground we've tread before nor does it detract from the weight of Ace's statement.
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Scenario:
Zoro is hit by a ball of pain and fatigue the size of a shack that a melon-sized sphere of left him writhing on the ground. After taking the hit he can't really move much but he's standing with his arms crossed. He just risked his life and his dream to help his captain accomplish his goal. Upon everyone's awaking he has a chance to reveal the terrific ordeal he went through to protect his captain.
Sanji: What happened here?!
Zoro: nuhthing…...ad all...
Mother-fuckin' badass.
Gonna predict it now.
This is the first in a LOOOOOOOONG series of chapters that will see the crew put their loyalty to Luffy to the test. Each will have a similar title with their bounty name.
I agree with this.
kinda like the "1st, 2nd, 3rd….." titled chapters.
I still didn't like the chapter though. Not because of Zoro, but because of Kuma
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What didn't you like about Kuma tony-kun? Seemed like a nice revelation that's he's a cyborg. (or was there something else you disliked?)
Still don't quite understand how his powers work tho
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It's on the past 2 pages.
Not trying to revive an old discussion
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Just one small chunk of that pain was enough to send Zoro to his knees, and yet Luffy had experienced so much more.
Luffy had been taking all this pain while maintaining that cheery disposition and his never-give-up attitude in front of his crewmates.
I think thats what Zoro realised.
EDIT: Its amusing that people can forgive how Garp who initially spared his grandson, later went back to try and kill him, but not how Kuma was trying to kill the crew, but later spares them.
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Zoro telling Kuma that Luffy "will be" the Pirate King was the shit. I think that's the first time Zoro's said that. Usopp's said it but I don't recall Zoro saying it.
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This chapter ended in a dilemma for me…If Zoro doesn't die next chapter, then Kuma will of left for nothing and it would be a 'cop-out' as the people here put it. But if he does, then, really, One Piece will never seem the same again.
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Zoro's not going to die in the next chapter.
I'm sure Kuma THOUGHT Zoro died or was going to die as a result in short order, and I'm sure Zoro IS pretty close to death if someone doesn't intervene. -
Does Zoro have blood reserves? I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure he should have run out of blood to bleed by now.
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Though it wasn't directly said, I'm pretty sure that it was implied that Kuma's attack was the sacrifice itself, since it was a sure kill move in Kuma's mind.
That's why Kuma left, he never intended to use an attack outside of that, so he was stuck when Zoro lived it. Or, maybe he just left as Zoro was stuck in the Pain transfer paw, and assumed that he died.
Really, I see too many good explanations for this to be a cop-out.
Here we go, stephan's translation of Kuma's words:
What I have just expelled from his body
is his "pain" and "fatigue."
It is all of the damage he accumulated during his fight with Moria and his people.
If you wish to take his place, that means you must accept his suffering.
You are close enough to death already that you cannot survive this added damage.
You will die.So, in Kuma's mind, accepting Zoro by taking that suffering is an equal act to him killing Luffy. Zoro just lucked out thanks to his great ability to live.
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Just one small chunk of that pain was enough to send Zoro to his knees, and yet Luffy had experienced so much more.
I think alot of it has to do with luffy being made of rubber as well. I think his body is able to withstand things alot easier than a normal person, s o Zoro being able to take all of that is pretty bitchin
one of the best chapters ever, i feel myself being drawn back to the series
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Now that I've read the translation, I honestly feel Dr. Vegapunk is one of the biggest people in the government. Someone so much more than just their top scientist.
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Heres a quote from Kuma:
"The Project Founder is Dr. Vegapunk, the genius scientist from the world government. He is the man who possesses the greatest brain in the world. His knowledge of science is what others could only discover 500 years fro now."From the sound and wording of that, it almost sounds like Vegapunk ate a fruit that made him smart, Kuma noted NO ONE COULD COMPARE TO HIM, meaning he posesses an inhuman ability, I wouldn't be surprised if he was that way. Regarding the Zoro and Luffy argument. Here's something everyone should understand, Zoro's body is much tougher than Luffy's it can take a lot more pain. But, Luffy's body is rubber, therefore it absorbs and constricts the pain, if Luffy's body was normal, Zoro would probably have a stronger body.
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Heres a quote from Kuma:
"The Project Founder is Dr. Vegapunk, the genius scientist from the world government. He is the man who possesses the greatest brain in the world. His knowledge of science is what others could only discover 500 years fro now."From the sound and wording of that, it almost sounds like Vegapunk ate a fruit that made him smart, Kuma noted NO ONE COULD COMPARE TO HIM, meaning he posesses an inhuman ability, I wouldn't be surprised if he was that way.
BOO this idea!
People are smart without fruits. Seriously, I am annoyed that there are not more badass people WITHOUT the aid of DFs
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Actually, I'm wondering if he's going to have an enormous head or brain.
Kuma says he has the 'greatest mind' but if the kanji is taken literally (which it isn't even in Japanese) it means 'biggest brain'. Note how the image of him avoided his head and Oda's usually pretty good about giving mysterious facial profiles. It would be along the lines of 'kaminari' in retrospect; something that could make sense two very different ways.
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Being the GREATEST GENIUS IN THE WORLD is kind of a anime cliche. It'd be lame if Vegapunk needed a fruit to do it. Thousands of anime boys have geniuses as next door neighbors, so they aren't that hard to find.
BOO this idea!
People are smart without fruits. Seriously, I am annoyed that there are not more badass people WITHOUT the aid of DFs
I also dislike the whole "doing stuff on your own and inner strength" cliche. It's good sometimes, but when you get right down to it, people couldn't even wipe their ass without the help of their parents.
DFs for instance are really more like weapons then cheap power-ups, most of the time. Guys like Luffy and Kuma could have easier been pussies even with that DF power, they clearly have other strengths.
Let's not forget the lameness of Ms. Valentinesday.
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Does Zoro have blood reserves? I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure he should have run out of blood to bleed by now.
thats what i thought. way too much blood… i guess oda just wants to show what a badass zoro is
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Note how the image of him avoided his head and Oda's usually pretty good about giving mysterious facial profiles. It would be along the lines of 'kaminari' in retrospect; something that could make sense two very different ways.
I'm hoping Oda switches it up with Vegapunk. Perhaps, making him look like a total half wit, with his brain detached in a glass jar. So while he's saying all these profoundly deep & complex things, his face is completely devoid of any serious thought.
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Vegapunk might have eaten the Brain brain devil fruit !
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'cause we all know you can't be exceptional in the One Piece universe without a Devil's Fruit.
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@Battle:
'cause we all know you can't be exceptional in the One Piece universe without a Devil's Fruit.
I think Zoro's eaten a survive several instances of massive blood loss fruit and we just don't know about it yet
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@Geg:
I think Zoro's eaten a survive several instances of massive blood loss fruit and we just don't know about it yet
Yet he can swim? Yeah…
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didnt oda say if a human ate the humanhuman fruit it would make you really smart? vegapunk must have eaten it… obviosly...
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I really enjoyed this chapter. There was a lot of character development going on and we get to catch a glimpse of Kuma's powers and his ideals. I like how this chapter moved from centering around either Luffy or all of the Straw Hats combined to Zoro. No offense to other Straw Hats and anyone who is a fan of the other Straw Hats, but I believe that Zoro's dream is a far tougher and strenuous challenge than being the best navigator in the world, or finding All Blue, or becoming a "brave warrior of the sea", etc. I believe that Zoro's goal is comparable to Luffy's of being the Pirate King. In my opinion, Zoro definitely needed this chapter solely dedicated to him and his ambitions in order for him to reach his goal and for him to be able to become the strongest swordsman.
In many ways, this chapter was also about Sanji as well. Even if Zoro and Sanji don't appear to get along, we can see they genuinely care for one another and that Sanji is still trying to match up to Zoro due to their rivalry. I always thought that Zoro was with Luffy to complete his own ambitions without sacrificing his pride however, in this chapter he clearly swallows his pride and literally begs Kuma to take his own life instead. That definitely shows that Zoro has a new perspective about the crew.
One thing I noticed on page 7 is that there seems to be a pressure gauge on Kuma's left arm, so maybe Kuma's devil fruit isn't all that powerful as it seems to be and that his cybernetics simply enhances it. Also, I find it interesting how the laser beam from Kuma's mouth almost looks like a cross in the middle panel on page 8, and how Zoro's hands are engulfed by the huge ball of Luffy's pain and fatigue up to his wrists, or maybe I'm just over analysing the possible religious connections with Kuma's attack (as we already know he seems to be religious). There seems to also be some sort of behind-the-scenes discussion between Zoro and Kuma missing before page 14. Maybe Oda will elaborate on it further in the next chapter on what exactly they discussed.
Also, we're shown a panel where Zoro is given a "taste" of the huge bubble of Luffy's pain and fatigue and he immediately hits the floor, more or less. Not only is Zoro not at 100%, but he took all of Luffy's pain and fatigue while Luffy was at nearly full strength. Also, he doesn't die or drop to the floor when the huge paw of Luffy's pain and fatigue hits him. This can either mean that Kuma was bluffing, that Zoro is just about to feel its affects and die (unlikely), or, as the captions read in the last panel: Zoro has undergone the "realization of a man" and through some technique blocked out the pain.
Overall, I really loved this chapter. It's probably my favourite chapter in One Piece. I was sweating because I didn't want Zoro, and I don't want any of the Straw Hats, to die.
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@lil:
didnt oda say if a human ate the humanhuman fruit it would make you really smart? vegapunk must have eaten it… obviosly...
Chopper ate that fruit already.
If Vegapunk's genius is a consequence of a devilfruit, it would be lame.. -
I agree that maybe Zoro's hands are possibly crippled now, but it doesn't appear that way on page 19, where you can at least see his right hand in the frame where he's crossing his arms…
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Also, we're shown a panel where Zoro is given a "taste" of the huge bubble of Luffy's pain and fatigue and he immediately hits the floor, more or less. Not only is Zoro not at 100%, but he took all of Luffy's pain and fatigue while Luffy was at nearly full strength. Also, he doesn't die or drop to the floor when the huge paw of Luffy's pain and fatigue hits him. This can either mean that Kuma was bluffing, that Zoro is just about to feel its affects and die (unlikely), or, as the captions read in the last panel: Zoro has undergone the "realization of a man" and through some technique blocked out the pain.
Eh don't Zoro have the 'suffering is good' speach,i remember that he said that to Kaku before using Asura.
In my opinion the best members to take the "pain-Paw" was either Ussop or Zoro.Well Ussop ,as he seems to have "High HP"(if you know what i mean), and Zoro,since he has serious injuries in most "boss" fights, and have pulled it through. -
Me wonders if Vegapunk might be connected to Machine Island.
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Is there a confirmed info that there will be a Machine Island at all?
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I thought there was a filler island named close to that,too.
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Is there a confirmed info that there will be a Machine Island at all?
Yep, the Machine Island exists in manga continuity. It appeared in Enel´s side story. It´s the birthplace of the Spacey´s built by Prof. Tsukimi. This is not the island though that appeared in movie 7. The manga island is called "karakuri-jima" (Machine Island) while the movie island was "mecha-jima" (Mecha Island). There was a Karakuri Castle on Mecha Island however but that´s another story.
So to get back to your question, yes, the Machine Island does exist. Didn´t appear in the main plot so far though.