Who would win? Moria or Kuma?
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I did like Moria in all aspects but the paw paw fruit can move ANYTHING, if it can move pain and fatique then it can move in all probability shadows too. We have seen Moria to the fullest but only a glimpse of Kuma, but already most people choose Kuma over Moria. It's not that Moria is weak, but both of them know eachothers powers and Morias are easier to exploit. Moria need a bunch of shadows to power up or use most of his tricks, using doppelman in direct sunlight is also questionable. etc etc
With all respect, this won't bring us to anywhere, only Oda can decide the outcome of this fight and we all are entitled to our own opinion so lets leave it.
Kuma mouth cannon was quite wtf, can't see the point why he at all used it, but he could defeat mr.1 with it if you think about it. Well the mouth cannon has nothing to do with it.
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Well the mouth cannon has nothing to do with it.
There honestly isn't anything that stands up to Shoop Da Woop
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Oh yeah, paws. Why I didn't think in that.
Wait, Kuma ate the Pad Pad Fruit. Who the hell are you talkin' about, Crabby?
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I did like Moria in all aspects but the paw paw fruit can move ANYTHING, if it can move pain and fatique then it can move in all probability shadows too.
Where was this stated? The power of remove pain and fatigue can be done with the help of his cyborg counterpart. Shadows? I doubt it.
We have seen Moria to the fullest but only a glimpse of Kuma, but already most people choose Kuma over Moria.
And that's why this hype on Kuma is invalidate. Not to count that he is fighting with pirates that suffered a huge beat of Moria earlier.
Moria need a bunch of shadows to power up or use most of his tricks, using doppelman in direct sunlight is also questionable. etc etc
Moria didn't need of a bunch of shadows to create the Brick Bats. Also, I don't think "Doppelman in the sunlight" can really affect him, since Doppelman is still attached to him somehow.
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Doppelman in sunlight isn't questionable at all.
Also the Paw Paw fruit being able to move ANYTHING is a no limit fallacy.
Oh fuck no I sound like my Battledome split personality.
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Where was this stated? The power of remove pain and fatigue can be done with the help of his cyborg counterpart. Shadows? I doubt it.
So the fact that this "pain and fatique" was shaped as a paw does not mean anything to you ? You doubth it ? Okey I'll give you the benefit of doubt although all this here is theoretical.
And that's why this hype on Kuma is invalidate. Not to count that he is fighting with pirates that suffered a huge beat of Moria earlier.
Can't a hype be true ? What makes you belive that Kuma can't live up to his name ? His only real 'fight' was with Zoro and even as a swordman who can cut metal he could not even scratch him.
Moria didn't need of a bunch of shadows to create the Brick Bats. Also, I don't think "Doppelman in the sunlight" can really affect him, since Doppelman is still attached to him somehow.
Yes he did, he used the shadows that were coming out of his mouth to creat them. And please, if you say you believe in something try to back it up. Suprisingly , attached to him somehow really doesn't make me abeliever.
edit:@Aldrich:
Doppelman in sunlight isn't questionable at all.
Also the Paw Paw fruit being able to move ANYTHING is a no limit fallacy.
Oh fuck no I sound like my Battledome split personality.
Oh I'm having fun today.
Can't understand you first point, too the second one I agree, thirdly yea you do.
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Yes he did, he used the shadows that were coming out of his mouth to creat them.
However, he didn't need any other shadow aside his own when he sent the Brick Bats against Luffy, Sanji and Robin.
Sorry, I don't what to say about the other paragraphs because they are confusing.
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It makes no sense that Moria would suffer the same consequences than the victims of his shadow powers. Or else he'd lose consciousness everytime he separates Doppelman from his body. Besides he used Brick Bat against Luffy when the sun was rising, in his giant Nightmare form so he couldn't avoid sunlight, and wasn't affected.
Yes he did, he used the shadows that were coming out of his mouth to creat them.
No. Once the shadows have left his mouth he loses control over them. Besides the number of Brick Bat created doesn't fit with the number of shadows he vomited. He used his own shadow, as always.
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However, he didn't need any other shadow aside his own when he sent the Brick Bats against Luffy, Sanji and Robin.
Sorry, I don't what to say about the other paragraphs because they are confusing.
Oh yea, my memory failed me on that point. Oh well and I can't say much about the second part .
It makes no sense that Moria would suffer the same consequences than the victims of his shadow powers. Or else he'd lose consciousness everytime he separates Doppelman from his body. Besides he used Brick Bat against Luffy when the sun was rising, in his giant Nightmare form so he couldn't avoid sunlight, and wasn't affected.
No. Once the shadows have left his mouth he loses control over them. Besides the number of Brick Bat created doesn't fit with the number of shadows he vomited. He used his own shadow, as always.
Did NL have a shadow, I can't remember, if he did then NM using doppelman would still have a shadow as he had 1000 stuffed into him. Well we can't be sure I understand you point of view but I'm not a believer.
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Kuma is just stronger than Moria the difference in abilities is clear…....
Luffy was the only one who could survive a blow like that survied because of his gomu gomu fruit, and the final fact is this, If Moria was overconfident that he would crush Luffy with his Shadow Asgard, he was not counting in Luffy's fruit helping him survive his massive attacks, had Moria played it smart with a liittle bit less arrogance, he could've sent his shadow somewhere else in TB and than switch up, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Robin would be pretty dead.
As we all saw from this chapter Zoro took all the fatigue and pain that Luffy took from Moria.
Sanji and Zoro are rivals
!
Rononoa Zoro - A Combatant
! "If you are uncertain as well, then who else can we trust?!!"
! Zoro trusts Luffy and they quickly became companions that can entrust their lives into each others' hands. He can be said to be the pirate crew's vice-captain and a trustworthy companion.
! Absolute trust in the captain!!
Follow the captain's orders without hesitation - this is the attitude that Zoro always has, because he has faith in Luffy from the bottom of his heart! He has an equally high fighting power as Luffy and when the need arises, he will be the first person to charge forth. Even though he has a devil-like fighting capability, he recognizes Luffy's position as the captain. Moreover, even when Luffy makes the wrong decision, he will give his best to rectify the mistake and never complains. This is Zoro's attitude.
! Picture of Zoro with his face smashed:
Caption: Sharing a sense of mutuality with Luffy, Zoro puts up with the enemy's beatings without making noise.
! Picture of Zoro charging with sword:
"Cut the great beanstalk down towards the west side"
Caption: With just a tiny hint, he is able to understand Luffy's intentions correctly and take action immediately.
! Picture at the bottom:
Zoro: Now is the moment that is crucial for all the members. Is this decision merely that fella's whim or is it something else?
Caption: Though this may lead the the destruction of the entire crew, he quietly accepts Luffy's orders.
! <next page="">The man's loyalty that is faithfully maintained!!
! Top picture
Zoro: ….that should be the captain's responsibility, right?!!!
Luffy: .....!!
Caption: Confronting the downcast Luffy and questions Luffy's preparedness for his role as captain seriously.
! Left picture
Zoro: I will not allow anyone who intends to fetch Yusop to go out
Luffy: Eh…? Why?!?
Caption: He took on a strong stance against Yusop, who broke the rules among the crew. When it is time to be incompassionate, he will become incompassionate.
! Picture with Zoro tugging Luffy's cheek
Zoro: I don't care even though you guys are slack normally, however, I will not allow the person I chose to be captain to lose his dignity.
Luffy: I will not recognise the person who go against my will as my companion.
Caption: He takes forceful corrective action when the captain loses his dignity.
! Big Zoro picture: We wait here for Luffy!
! Box at left bottom corner
Complete Trust, Uniform Steps
Zoro understands Luffy and knows his way of thinking, this is the mutual understanding they have developed after being companions for a long time.
! Picture top
"You need to light a fire when you camp outside, isn't that usually the case?"
"Even if your life is in danger, you should always light a fire, that is the humane thing to do."
"You're a bunch of idiots!"
! Picture bottom:
Zoro: This is the wood pieces formation right?
Angry person: Why are you guys so enthusiastic as well?
Caption: His idea of camping is so similar to Sanji's when they work together.</next> -
Why hello Phenomenol.
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If Kuma was vastly stronger you'd think his bounty would be vastly higher than Moria's rather than being slightly lower.
And all the Kuma hype is probably just him being the flavor of the month.
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Kuma is just stronger than Moria the difference in abilities is clear…....
are you one of the Zoro fanboys from NF that downplays Moria because Luffy took him out and Zoro couldn't hope to do the same with Kuma
As we all saw from this chapter Zoro took all the fatigue and pain that Luffy took from Moria.
this has got to be a joke, Luffy took the Island splitter with minimum damage, that same minimum damage is got transfered to Zoro, the most Zoro took was the pain and fatigue that comes from G2/3, and a little of it almost KOed him, having him stand there is part of Oda's way of making him look "badass" for all we know Zoro can't move his body and might even sit the next arc out.
! http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/046-047.jpg
Rononoa Zoro - A Combatant
! "If you are uncertain as well, then who else can we trust?!!"
! Zoro trusts Luffy and they quickly became companions that can entrust their lives into each others' hands. He can be said to be the pirate crew's vice-captain and a trustworthy companion.
! Absolute trust in the captain!!
Follow the captain's orders without hesitation - this is the attitude that Zoro always has, because he has faith in Luffy from the bottom of his heart! He has an equally high fighting power as Luffy and when the need arises, he will be the first person to charge forth. Even though he has a devil-like fighting capability, he recognizes Luffy's position as the captain. Moreover, even when Luffy makes the wrong decision, he will give his best to rectify the mistake and never complains. This is Zoro's attitude.
! Picture of Zoro with his face smashed:
Caption: Sharing a sense of mutuality with Luffy, Zoro puts up with the enemy's beatings without making noise.
! Picture of Zoro charging with sword:
"Cut the great beanstalk down towards the west side"
Caption: With just a tiny hint, he is able to understand Luffy's intentions correctly and take action immediately.
! Picture at the bottom:
Zoro: Now is the moment that is crucial for all the members. Is this decision merely that fella's whim or is it something else?
Caption: Though this may lead the the destruction of the entire crew, he quietly accepts Luffy's orders.
! <next page="">The man's loyalty that is faithfully maintained!!
! Top picture
Zoro: ….that should be the captain's responsibility, right?!!!
Luffy: …..!!
Caption: Confronting the downcast Luffy and questions Luffy's preparedness for his role as captain seriously.
! Left picture
Zoro: I will not allow anyone who intends to fetch Yusop to go out
Luffy: Eh…? Why?!?
Caption: He took on a strong stance against Yusop, who broke the rules among the crew. When it is time to be incompassionate, he will become incompassionate.
! Picture with Zoro tugging Luffy's cheek
Zoro: I don't care even though you guys are slack normally, however, I will not allow the person I chose to be captain to lose his dignity.
Luffy: I will not recognise the person who go against my will as my companion.
Caption: He takes forceful corrective action when the captain loses his dignity.
! Big Zoro picture: We wait here for Luffy!
! Box at left bottom corner
Complete Trust, Uniform Steps
Zoro understands Luffy and knows his way of thinking, this is the mutual understanding they have developed after being companions for a long time.
! Picture top
"You need to light a fire when you camp outside, isn't that usually the case?"
"Even if your life is in danger, you should always light a fire, that is the humane thing to do."
"You're a bunch of idiots!"
! Picture bottom:
Zoro: This is the wood pieces formation right?
Angry person: Why are you guys so enthusiastic as well?
Caption: His idea of camping is so similar to Sanji's when they work together.</next>
Zoro cannot equal G2/3, sorry but that's the way it is -
@AD-HD:
Why hello Phenomenol.
No, how many times are you going to be wrong alias? I already know your Zephos/Gaiyea so stop trolling me please.
@CP9Lucci:
are you one of the Zoro fanboys from NF that downplays Moria because Luffy took him out and Zoro couldn't hope to do the same with Kuma
What? No it is obvious in the abilities displayed that Kuma is stronger.
this has got to be a joke, Luffy took the Island splitter with minimum damage, that same minimum damage is got transfered to Zoro, the most Zoro took was the pain and fatigue that comes from G2/3, and a little of it almost KOed him, having him stand there is part of Oda's way of making him look "badass" for all we know Zoro can't move his body and might even sit the next arc out.
No joke…...
Kuma: Right now, I have ejected from his body "pain" and "fatigue."
Kuma: This is all the damage he has sustained from the battle with Moria.
Zoro cannot equal G2/3, sorry but that's the way it is
Now this is a joke.
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No, how many times are you going to be wrong alias? I already know your Zephos/Gaiyea so stop trolling me please.
It's actually quite amusing that you think that I'm the one with alias here.
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I already know your Zephos/Gaiyea so stop trolling me please.
the hell ? Those two arent even remotely similar.
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@AD-HD:
It's actually quite amusing that you think that I'm the one with alias here.
Yeah cause all three of you keep coming at me with this dupe crap. Your all the same.
the hell ? Those two arent even remotely similar.
Oh yes they are, they all say the same things.
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This thread is still going?
You'd think after the bore fest that was CP9 people would be happy to see him.
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Come on! Moria knew about Kumas abilities, and he still said "Do you wanna fight?" That means that Moria isnt afraid of his powers. Most people wouldn't wanna fight him just because of his size and stature. Kuma just looks invincible because he's fighting the SH when their an inch away from death. DO NOT call Moria a pussy. A pussy doesnt get a bounty over 300 million. A guy doesnt get a bounty over 300 million because of his SUBORDINATE'S strength. Gecko Moria, all the way.
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! http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/046-047.jpg
Rononoa Zoro - A Combatant
! "If you are uncertain as well, then who else can we trust?!!"
! Zoro trusts Luffy and they quickly became companions that can entrust their lives into each others' hands. He can be said to be the pirate crew's vice-captain and a trustworthy companion.
! Absolute trust in the captain!!
Follow the captain's orders without hesitation - this is the attitude that Zoro always has, because he has faith in Luffy from the bottom of his heart! He has an equally high fighting power as Luffy and when the need arises, he will be the first person to charge forth. Even though he has a devil-like fighting capability, he recognizes Luffy's position as the captain. Moreover, even when Luffy makes the wrong decision, he will give his best to rectify the mistake and never complains. This is Zoro's attitude.
! Picture of Zoro with his face smashed:
Caption: Sharing a sense of mutuality with Luffy, Zoro puts up with the enemy's beatings without making noise.
! Picture of Zoro charging with sword:
"Cut the great beanstalk down towards the west side"
Caption: With just a tiny hint, he is able to understand Luffy's intentions correctly and take action immediately.
! Picture at the bottom:
Zoro: Now is the moment that is crucial for all the members. Is this decision merely that fella's whim or is it something else?
Caption: Though this may lead the the destruction of the entire crew, he quietly accepts Luffy's orders.
! <next page="">The man's loyalty that is faithfully maintained!!
! Top picture
Zoro: ….that should be the captain's responsibility, right?!!!
Luffy: …..!!
Caption: Confronting the downcast Luffy and questions Luffy's preparedness for his role as captain seriously.
! Left picture
Zoro: I will not allow anyone who intends to fetch Yusop to go out
Luffy: Eh…? Why?!?
Caption: He took on a strong stance against Yusop, who broke the rules among the crew. When it is time to be incompassionate, he will become incompassionate.
! Picture with Zoro tugging Luffy's cheek
Zoro: I don't care even though you guys are slack normally, however, I will not allow the person I chose to be captain to lose his dignity.
Luffy: I will not recognise the person who go against my will as my companion.
Caption: He takes forceful corrective action when the captain loses his dignity.
! Big Zoro picture: We wait here for Luffy!
! Box at left bottom corner
Complete Trust, Uniform Steps
Zoro understands Luffy and knows his way of thinking, this is the mutual understanding they have developed after being companions for a long time.
! Picture top
"You need to light a fire when you camp outside, isn't that usually the case?"
"Even if your life is in danger, you should always light a fire, that is the humane thing to do."
"You're a bunch of idiots!"
! Picture bottom:
Zoro: This is the wood pieces formation right?
Angry person: Why are you guys so enthusiastic as well?
Caption: His idea of camping is so similar to Sanji's when they work together.</next>Thank you, this info will be very useful. I have been saying this sense day 1 that Zoro and Luffy are in the same league.:)
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Its so hard to say… Both have such unique abilities. (of course Kuma is still mostly 90% mystery)
To me Kuma seems more of a one man army, capable of taking down a multitude of oponents but even more deadly when its mano to mano.
Moria on the other hand seems to be more of a strategist and uses his wits + power to win.
That being said, mano to mano, if they were pitted against each other without warning, I think Kuma would win.
However if they both knew they were fighting each other and had time to plan, I think Moria would win.
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@Kma:
Its so hard to say… Both have such unique abilities. (of course Kuma is still mostly 90% mystery)
To me Kuma seems more of a one man army, capable of taking down a multitude of oponents but even more deadly when its mano to mano.
Moria on the other hand seems to be more of a strategist and uses his wits + power to win.
That being said, mano to mano, if they were pitted against each other without warning, I think Kuma would win.
However if they both knew they were fighting each other and had time to plan, I think Moria would win.
So Moria is Batman. This is what you're saying.
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I dont know the full extent of Morias "Shadow Revolution", but if he can have his shadow invade Kuma's, he could have Kuma beat himself up like a "stop hitting yourself" situation. No matter how strong his metal body is, metal breaks the same type of metal. Diamond breaks diamond, you get the idea. The main problem about Kuma is his strong, metal body. Without that, you get past his hands and bam! He's hit! Sanji showed us that.
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As to the Kuma vs Moria bounty issue…
As many will state, bounties are next to meaningless. And I agree with this statement. However, here the bounties are even less meaningful due to Kuma having gotten cybernetic enhancements AFTER his bounty was frozen. (I am suspecting this is true)
Forget growing more powerful as an SBK, he was built stronger.
Still I gotta go with Moria taken Kuma down EASY
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As we all saw from this chapter Zoro took all the fatigue and pain that Luffy took from Moria.
You didn't get the point at all. Zoro could take it because luffy's elastic body sustains less damage from punches and the like. Any normal human's bones would have been pulverized and so would have been Zoro's if that pain would have been transfered.
You don't need to quote the manga over and over again. We've all read it. This is a matter of interpretation.
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You didn't get the point at all. Zoro could take it because luffy's elastic body sustains less damage from punches and the like. Any normal human's bones would have been pulverized and so would have been Zoro's if that pain would have been transfered.
You don't need to quote the manga over and over again. We've all read it. This is a matter of interpretation.
But, what if Zoro took all the damage that Luffy took, without the benefits of a rubber body? That's possible too, and an interesting concept at least.
Back to the vs, Moria's whole "I know how your powers work" still haunts me. Moria knew that Kuma was a paw using cyborg and he still offered to fight him. Weird, but I guess we still don't fully know how Moria or Kuma's powers work, even now. I kind of feel cheated that we didn't get to see Moria fight with anything other then "shadow asguard."
It seems to me that Moria could get an instant kill by either stealing a shadow, or using his "shadow revolution" to tear someone apart. I mean, it's not like he had to ask Odz permission to use that move on him–he probably just needs to get his shadow in the other guys. After the latest chapter, Kuma looks strong but I think that both fighters are just too damn vague to call.
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Moria's power is superior to Kuma's because using said power he can singlehandedly create and perform his very own Thriller video.
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No, how many times are you going to be wrong alias? I already know your Zephos/Gaiyea so stop trolling me please.
Uhm, LOL?
What's the use for me making multiple acounts? I aint got banned like you and Jinbei..
Why are you so obsessed with proving they are equels anyway?
And for the record - I seriously don't give a damn about powerlevels. You guys seem to only care about who is the strongest..
Usopp is my favorite anime character, and i don't care if he's weak - IMO he is way more interesting then Zoro.Anyways.. On topic.
The way i see it - Nightmare Moria has more strenght but is unstable.
Kuma is faster and has a large defence. So i'm going with Kuma here.I sure hope, that if any of the SH will fight him in the future, it's going to be franky.
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Moria's power is superior to Kuma's because using said power he can singlehandedly create and perform his very own Thriller video.
oda (or at least the people who do the anime) need to do some serious fanservice and make that a reality. scene for scene remake of the thriller video with moria as MJ and dancing TB zombies. ill write an SBS letter to oda.
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@lil:
oda (or at least the people who do the anime) need to do some serious fanservice and make that a reality. scene for scene remake of the thriller video with moria as MJ and dancing TB zombies. ill write an SBS letter to oda.
No need. The amv community is probably already on the job. I know I am…
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The Narutofan One Piece section is in vast majority backing up Kuma.
Do you want to be like the Narutofan One Piece section Carter? I know you don't.
you make a very good point hmmmmm
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No need. The amv community is probably already on the job. I know I am…
cant wait 16 characrtes
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Kuma would tear moria a new asshole. I guess that settles it then. Kuma wins.
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Quick
Somebody lock the poll
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Yep Kuma's the flavor of the month all right.
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Lazy answer: Kuma wins in one move.
Moria: "Shadow Asgard! Kishishishishi!"
Kuma: 'ports Moria into the ocean
Winner: Kuma!Non-cheap answer: Kuma wins in one or perhaps a few more moves, such as smacking Moria around with his own zombies, or light-speeding rocks at him, or shockwaves, or he just Ursa Shock's the whole place to Kingdom Come (I believe Kuma would appreciate the idiom)
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My god, people are making me seriously pissed off.
Teleports them into the ocean? You are refering to forces you cannot comprehend.It's fucking 2 in the morning right now, but when I get back I'm posting a list of knowns and unkowns about these two to shut up the stupids >< God! ><
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vote count is 187
kuma is homicidal on moria. 19 votes ahead
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@Kitsune::
My god, people are making me seriously pissed off.
Teleports them into the ocean? You are refering to forces you cannot comprehend.It's fucking 2 in the morning right now, but when I get back I'm posting a list of knowns and unkowns about these two to shut up the stupids >< God! ><
lol wut?
I think you do need some sleep. Not that what you said was wrong… but, It just seems a bit nuts for some reason :s
Maybe Kuma didn't use his devil fruit at all to teleport Perona. Maybe he just used some cyborg "teleportation device" thing.
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Wow, that poll used to be equal for both of them till last chapter <3
I bet this settles it. -
@Lobster:
lol wut?
I think you do need some sleep. Not that what you said was wrong… but, It just seems a bit nuts for some reason :s
Lol the art of irony (despite you post crap on purpose)
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@Lobster:
lol wut?
I think you do need some sleep. Not that what you said was wrong… but, It just seems a bit nuts for some reason :s
Maybe Kuma didn't use his devil fruit at all to teleport Perona. Maybe he just used some cyborg "teleportation device" thing.
The point is, we just don't fucking know! Actually, I'm betting he deflected her like he did to the rock in front of Luffy.
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@Kitsune::
The point is, we just don't fucking know! Actually, I'm betting he deflected her like he did to the rock in front of Luffy.
I think that is what those panels were trying to show
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There you go everyone.
In beg letters for blind dumbasses…...
KUMA CAN NOT TELEPORT! HIMSELF, OR ANYONE ELSE!
That 'teleporting' was probably just fast speed. -
I think it's pretty hilarious how apparently last chapter changed everything for a bunch of people while it basically told us nothing about Kuma's abilities that could give him the edge over Moria.
I HATE YOU PEOPLE
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@Kitsune::
There you go everyone.
In beg letters for blind dumbasses…...
KUMA CAN NOT TELEPORT! HIMSELF, OR ANYONE ELSE!
That 'teleporting' was probably just fast speed.i agree with the point that he can´t teleport somebody, i think everybody saw the last chapter where the stone flying away by just touching it. i think that the same happend to perona.
but how he can move so fast with that weight, i don´t now. hmm…
and for the reason that kuma take the clear lead is just a hype about his person.
i think when moria would tell the strawhats whats kumas weakness is, then he is vincible...
and not so superior we know him.. -
@Kitsune::
There you go everyone.
In beg letters for blind dumbasses…...
KUMA CAN NOT TELEPORT! HIMSELF, OR ANYONE ELSE!
That 'teleporting' was probably just fast speed.OK. Sorry. I should have worded it differently.
He (for lack of a better word) "moves" Moria into the ocean. Or, you know, does those other things I mentioned.
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LOL, we saw some of Kuma's powers but he wasn't even serious! There was no enemy for him who was fighting in a league near Moria's. The question is, why are so many people impressed by him? I don't get it.
Bashing a half dead Zoro > Splitting an Island with godlike powers that even allow him to manipulate the shape of everything that has a shadow + true teleportation +…
I just don't see the basis to say: Kuma > Moria, everything we saw from Kuma is nothing against a Moria who actually wants to fight.
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If he can't teleport, then what on Earth did he do to poor Perona-chan?
Eat her like a cup cake?