It didn’t seem to matter if you knew or not where the island was. You can know exactly the latitude and longitude of an island, but how are you going to locate yourself in the ocean without a compass? You can’t know if you are going east or west.
That’s also why Wapol spent days going around without reaching Drum.
Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!
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@Chams-0 Log poses are a thing for pirates like the Straw Hats who are just journeying without a set plan. We know the marines and organizations (such as Baroque Works, and the Emperor operations) can supply eternal poses for specific destinations, and you can also buy them in the black market (Buggy's crew bought one to Impel Down pre-timeskip).
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@Deicide Travel times have never been the series' strong suit and I fear they're only going to get worse as the conflicts get more global and simultaneous. When it's all in the New World like this I'm willing to suspend my disbelief that we just happen to be in a cluster of nearby islands. My only hope is that it doesn't get to real extremes like a non-Augur or Kuma character going from literally one side of the world to the other overnight.
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@Captain-M I'm one of those fans who nitpick details like that. This arc has been particularly taxing in ignoring the inconsistencies, like Sabo taking 5 days to go from Lulusia to Kamabakka (which are said to be next to each other), same with the Straw Hats taking 5 days from Wano to Egghead, but Blackbeard taking only 7 days or so to reach Amazon Lily after the Reverie (despite it taking 7 days from Amazon Lily to Sabaody, and 3 days to coat a ship to cross the Red Line). And then there's Marco taking 5 days to fly to Sphynx despite being within eye sight of it when Shanks brought him there. It feels like the plot dictates traveling now.
But despite how bothersome these inconsistencies are, I feel Augur being featured in Winner and now Egghead one day later isn't an oversight, but something done in purpose for whatever reason. Oda could easily have Laffite in Winner to leave Augur free to be in Egghead all along now.
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I've had this thought for a while and seeing the Giants brings me back. I've always wanted to see how Oda handles Elbaf. In certain TV shows, the writers make excuses, so they don't have to spend so much on CGI like having a creature be invisible at times or certain people can't see them.
Will Oda go all out and take on the challenge of constantly drawing Giants around regular sized folks or will he come up with reasonable excuses, so he doesn't have to do it every chapter. This is someone who isn't the greatest with scale. Just imagine having to do this for like 50 or more chapters with like 6-12 Giants on average.
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@Deicide I'm the same way about a lot of things, but there definitely comes a point you just have to accept that some ideas don't matter all that much to the author. Sometimes it's still fun to look into them anyway just to get a laugh out of how far off-base they end up being - using the stated width of Alabasta's river to calculate the country's landmass to be comparable to Australia and thinking about what must mean for the full size of the OP globe is one of my favourite examples.
But yeah travel times are not something I'd personally expect to find much value in calculating. They were usually left ambiguous between pre-timeskip arcs and have ended up being super short between post-timeskip ones. And without knowing the intended distance between most islands, or thinking about the ridiculously bulky and non-hydrodynamic designs of the ships with wildcard additions like cola engines and paddle wheels, who's to say what a realistic top speed for any of these things is meant to be.
Just give characters at least a few days' lead time to slip between hemispheres and I'll mostly look the other way.
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@Riccardo said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Razh Sorry, that may have come across a bit too personal than I initially intended. My intention was not to address you directly about this, because I indeed do not know where you come from. I was referring more to the often-mentioned paradox of readers who care about someone's family tree, but at the same time don't want it to influence a character's actions. In my opinion, an explanatory backstory is not something that fits into the spirit of Zoro's character.
Oh no sweat, just saw an opportunity to have fun.
I never needed an explanatory backstory for Zoro, especially not a half assed one Oda concocted, but what I need or want is some basic human interaction between Strawhats and people they meet that isn't tied to current active quest.
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@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Razh said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@King-Cannon That's borderline victim blaming. Aren't Oda and his paid editors the ones who decide what gets in?
You don't just decide to make one of main characters Wanoan, and then go so far to make his family a big deal and then just fail to do anything meaningful for the character with it.
But that's hardly the only thing that got inexplicably skipped over in Wano arc.
Oda has to read every fan letter I believe, so if people kept writing about it, he likely felt forced to clarify it. In the end, he is the one who has to dedicate the little time he has reading dozens of letters and then choosing what gets published.
And again, Zoro is not Wanoan. He merely has some Wanoan ancestry, which by itself is not special since everybody in his village does.
I mean I would have been perfectly fine without Zoro-Wano connection. There wasn't actually any need for it. But since Oda decided to go with it, why not do it right. When you think about it, Zoro not knowing his line originated in Wano makes no sense. It's not really a big secret. He even had a relationship with the guy who made Wado Ichimonji and who actually lived on Wano. And no, the explanation as to why Kozaburo didn't talk about past makes no sense and is akin to author saying "because I said so". Nobody in the whole village knew? Ffs...
Please don't nitpick, you're better than that. Yes, he's not a Wanoan. He's just a direct descendant to a guy whose zombie he fought and who was called "Sword God". You'd think a world and character builder like Oda would do something with that.
Everybody in Zoro's village isn't one of the main characters, nor did they fight the zombie of their great ancestor, fought with his sword which is considered Wano's national treasure, nor were they on Wano risking their lives to save it from oppressive elements.
Dropped. The. Ball. Hard.
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@Razh said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Razh said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@King-Cannon That's borderline victim blaming. Aren't Oda and his paid editors the ones who decide what gets in?
You don't just decide to make one of main characters Wanoan, and then go so far to make his family a big deal and then just fail to do anything meaningful for the character with it.
But that's hardly the only thing that got inexplicably skipped over in Wano arc.
Oda has to read every fan letter I believe, so if people kept writing about it, he likely felt forced to clarify it. In the end, he is the one who has to dedicate the little time he has reading dozens of letters and then choosing what gets published.
And again, Zoro is not Wanoan. He merely has some Wanoan ancestry, which by itself is not special since everybody in his village does.
I mean I would have been perfectly fine without Zoro-Wano connection. There wasn't actually any need for it. But since Oda decided to go with it, why not do it right. When you think about it, Zoro not knowing his line originated in Wano makes no sense. It's not really a big secret. He even had a relationship with the guy who made Wado Ichimonji and who actually lived on Wano. And no, the explanation as to why Kozaburo didn't talk about past makes no sense and is akin to author saying "because I said so". Nobody in the whole village knew? Ffs...
Please don't nitpick, you're better than that. Yes, he's not a Wanoan. He's just a direct descendant to a guy whose zombie he fought and who was called "Sword God". You'd think a world and character builder like Oda would do something with that.
Everybody in Zoro's village isn't one of the main characters, nor did they fight the zombie of their great ancestor, fought with his sword which is considered Wano's national treasure, nor were they on Wano risking their lives to save it from oppressive elements.
Dropped. The. Ball. Hard.
What exactly do you want him to do? Again, Zoro does not have any direct connections to Wano as a place.
His whole lifestory concerns the events that happened in Shimotsuki only. And the one family from Wano he has is his paternal grandma; his actual parents are merely local criminals. In fact, I'm not even sure Zoro is aware or cares about who his relatives are, especially since they're dead.
Like yeah, Zoro is a descendant of Ryuma, but so was Ushimaru and he turned out to be just another victim of Kaidou's forces. And Zoro is not even directly related to Ushimaru, but his elder sister, who I doubt was special in any regard besides family name.
It's perfectly fine for Oda to want to keep this in the background, especially since it doesn't really concern Wano in the end. It's not like Sanji, who does have significant story within the Germa Kingdom.
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@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Razh said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Razh said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@King-Cannon That's borderline victim blaming. Aren't Oda and his paid editors the ones who decide what gets in?
You don't just decide to make one of main characters Wanoan, and then go so far to make his family a big deal and then just fail to do anything meaningful for the character with it.
But that's hardly the only thing that got inexplicably skipped over in Wano arc.
Oda has to read every fan letter I believe, so if people kept writing about it, he likely felt forced to clarify it. In the end, he is the one who has to dedicate the little time he has reading dozens of letters and then choosing what gets published.
And again, Zoro is not Wanoan. He merely has some Wanoan ancestry, which by itself is not special since everybody in his village does.
I mean I would have been perfectly fine without Zoro-Wano connection. There wasn't actually any need for it. But since Oda decided to go with it, why not do it right. When you think about it, Zoro not knowing his line originated in Wano makes no sense. It's not really a big secret. He even had a relationship with the guy who made Wado Ichimonji and who actually lived on Wano. And no, the explanation as to why Kozaburo didn't talk about past makes no sense and is akin to author saying "because I said so". Nobody in the whole village knew? Ffs...
Please don't nitpick, you're better than that. Yes, he's not a Wanoan. He's just a direct descendant to a guy whose zombie he fought and who was called "Sword God". You'd think a world and character builder like Oda would do something with that.
Everybody in Zoro's village isn't one of the main characters, nor did they fight the zombie of their great ancestor, fought with his sword which is considered Wano's national treasure, nor were they on Wano risking their lives to save it from oppressive elements.
Dropped. The. Ball. Hard.
What exactly do you want him to do? Again, Zoro does not have any direct connections to Wano as a place.
His whole lifestory concerns the events that happened in Shimotsuki only. And the one family from Wano he has is his paternal grandma; his actual parents are merely local criminals. In fact, I'm not even sure Zoro is aware or cares about who his relatives are, especially since they're dead.
Like yeah, Zoro is a descendant of Ryuma, but so was Ushimaru and he turned out to be just another victim of Kaidou's forces. And Zoro is not even directly related to Ushimaru, but his elder sister, who I doubt was special in any regard besides family name.
It's perfectly fine for Oda to want to keep this in the background, especially since it doesn't really concern Wano in the end. It's not like Sanji, who does have significant story within the Germa Kingdom.
Have some character growth maybe. Acknowledge his roots and his life path and all the crazy events that put him on course to fight his ancestor, use his katana, go to his homeland, watch his distant cousin die, help save his homeland and inherit the blade made by the guy he knew and who was the one who gave him his first 2 katana... A pretty crazy twist of fate.
The fact Zoro doesn't have any connections to it in itself is one of the issues here. His life story was lacking before, now it's just a mess. Even his interest in swordsmanship, and everyone elses in the village, would make a lot more sense if they were fed legends of Wano and the Sword God from an early age. But that's what happens when you make a half baked retcon, you create inconsistencies.
Zoro's parents weren't local criminals. His pops was Shimotsuki descendant and his mom was a daughter of a local bandit. Does this matter? No. And Zoro is definitely not aware of his family's past, which is, again, an issue in itself.
Again, Ushimaru isn't one of the main characters and it doesn't really matter how he died. And despite the fact Zoro isn't directly related to Ushimaru, he still has a striking resemblance to him, which is something Oda could have avoided completely since it served no purpose at all in the end.
It would have been perfectly fine if there was no connection at all, but he made one, and failed to build on it, leaving it just a loose end. The fact he had to clarify it in an SBS shows how badly he handled it. When you tie things up nicely, people won't be boring you with questions, will they?
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Maybe it's a meta joke, just like Zoro gets constantly lost, so do his plot lines.
Like him coming face to face with the grim reaper and then nevere mentioning it again.
Or him going from "ah, Vegapunk, finally we meet, there's something I want to ask you. Something serious" to "I volunteer to guard the ship while all of you go meet Vegapunk, I'm fine with possibly never meeting him at all" over one chapter. -
@Alfiere said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
Like him coming face to face with the grim reaper and then nevere mentioning it again.
I think that one is extremely important and Oda wants us to forget about it until its time.
Given we know that souls exist in OP thanks to Brook, and one of the main themes of the series being inherited will,,, Zoro being a half inch from the afterlife might be super relevant eventually.
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@Razh said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
Have some character growth maybe. Acknowledge his roots and his life path and all the crazy events that put him on course to fight his ancestor, use his katana, go to his homeland, watch his distant cousin die, help save his homeland and inherit the blade made by the guy he knew and who was the one who gave him his first 2 katana... A pretty crazy twist of fate.
The fact Zoro doesn't have any connections to it in itself is one of the issues here. His life story was lacking before, now it's just a mess. Even his interest in swordsmanship, and everyone elses in the village, would make a lot more sense if they were fed legends of Wano and the Sword God from an early age. But that's what happens when you make a half baked retcon, you create inconsistencies.
Zoro's parents weren't local criminals. His pops was Shimotsuki descendant and his mom was a daughter of a local bandit. Does this matter? No. And Zoro is definitely not aware of his family's past, which is, again, an issue in itself.
Again, Ushimaru isn't one of the main characters and it doesn't really matter how he died. And despite the fact Zoro isn't directly related to Ushimaru, he still has a striking resemblance to him, which is something Oda could have avoided completely since it served no purpose at all in the end.
It would have been perfectly fine if there was no connection at all, but he made one, and failed to build on it, leaving it just a loose end. The fact he had to clarify it in an SBS shows how badly he handled it. When you tie things up nicely, people won't be boring you with questions, will they?
I personally do not see a good story potential that can be taken from Zoro's family tree, at least that concern Wano. His dad died fighting local pirates. His mother was born to a local bandit.
If that's all there is to it, then it's better to keep this in the background than dedicate actual chapters dealing with soft connections. It's perfectly fine to have the story just mention similarities and coincidences and make readers theorize it themselves about how exactly Zoro is tied to Ryuma. Oda did this right by originally just confirming that Kuina was Ryuma's descendant and that Zoro had no direct parentage with Ushimaru, so people could speculate about how Zoro fit into all that.
Not everything needs answers. Sometimes, it's better to just leave things to imagination.
But alas, I guess people wouldn't just shut up about it, so Oda had to give them something. And I feel like this only happened because of the focus Sanji received in Whole Cake instead of any actual interest in Zoro's history.
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Zoro being a descendant from Ryuma is what allows him to go back to Wano and marry Hiyori after the end of the manga, lol
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Do you think we will finally have a team fight with Luffy and Sanji ?
I really hope Oda does not tease us falselly again -
@Robby said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Alfiere said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
Like him coming face to face with the grim reaper and then nevere mentioning it again.
I think that one is extremely important and Oda wants us to forget about it until its time.
Given we know that souls exist in OP thanks to Brook, and one of the main themes of the series being inherited will,,, Zoro being a half inch from the afterlife might be super relevant eventually.
I'm almost certain it's gonna be used as the rationale for another upgrade. Zoro is not really the kind of character an author would use to comment on the philosophy of death or anything similar, he's an extremely simple character once you dig into the core imho, and that's why he's so appealing imo.
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@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Razh said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
Have some character growth maybe. Acknowledge his roots and his life path and all the crazy events that put him on course to fight his ancestor, use his katana, go to his homeland, watch his distant cousin die, help save his homeland and inherit the blade made by the guy he knew and who was the one who gave him his first 2 katana... A pretty crazy twist of fate.
The fact Zoro doesn't have any connections to it in itself is one of the issues here. His life story was lacking before, now it's just a mess. Even his interest in swordsmanship, and everyone elses in the village, would make a lot more sense if they were fed legends of Wano and the Sword God from an early age. But that's what happens when you make a half baked retcon, you create inconsistencies.
Zoro's parents weren't local criminals. His pops was Shimotsuki descendant and his mom was a daughter of a local bandit. Does this matter? No. And Zoro is definitely not aware of his family's past, which is, again, an issue in itself.
Again, Ushimaru isn't one of the main characters and it doesn't really matter how he died. And despite the fact Zoro isn't directly related to Ushimaru, he still has a striking resemblance to him, which is something Oda could have avoided completely since it served no purpose at all in the end.
It would have been perfectly fine if there was no connection at all, but he made one, and failed to build on it, leaving it just a loose end. The fact he had to clarify it in an SBS shows how badly he handled it. When you tie things up nicely, people won't be boring you with questions, will they?
I personally do not see a good story potential that can be taken from Zoro's family tree, at least that concern Wano. His dad died fighting local pirates. His mother was born to a local bandit.
If that's all there is to it, then it's better to keep this in the background than dedicate actual chapters dealing with soft connections. It's perfectly fine to have the story just mention similarities and coincidences and make readers theorize it themselves about how exactly Zoro is tied to Ryuma. Oda did this right by originally just confirming that Kuina was Ryuma's descendant and that Zoro had no direct parentage with Ushimaru, so people could speculate about how Zoro fit into all that.
Not everything needs answers. Sometimes, it's better to just leave things to imagination.
But alas, I guess people wouldn't just shut up about it, so Oda had to give them something. And I feel like this only happened because of the focus Sanji received in Whole Cake instead of any actual interest in Zoro's history.
What chapters? Couple pages of Zoro talking to someone or connecting the dots would have done wonders for the character AND prevented those obnoxious readers pestering Oda about the unresolved plot elements he himself introduced into the story.
It's not like Sanji was handled that much better in his arc, really. Worse if you count in the power up that basically shat on a lot of his hard work up to the point.
Honestly, I preferred when both Zoro and Sanji were nobodies, so to say.
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Finding out about Zoro’s ancestors wouldn’t have done anything for his character. It could maybe be an arc for the citizens of Wano, about changing their relationship with the outside world, seeing how leaving could be a good thing, since Zoro was a mix of Wano culture and world knowledge, helping the land of his ancestors
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@Chams-0 How do you know that?
You don't. Because Oda could have developed Zoro further, like he could have done with any of the Strawhats. Instead, some of them devolved to being less than they were before the time skip.
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@Rean said in [Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!](/post/4115321
I'm almost certain it's gonna be used as the rationale for another upgrade. Zoro is not really the kind of character an author would use to comment on the philosophy of death or anything similar, he's an extremely simple character once you dig into the core imho, and that's why he's so appealing imo.
Not about the philosophy of death, but them butting up against the actual underworld/lifestream. The One Piece letting you talk to your dead loved ones or such.
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well the family backstory being the go to for jump writers when they've run out of character development ideas has been a tradition for years and will continue to do so
one piece just took a little over 10 years to reach there
luffy doesn't care so at least we'll be spared that
probably
maybe
i dont knowi would blame yu yu hakusho and dragon ball but then even they were inspired by stories from older western mythologies which was the same of eastern mythologies what with gods or half humans being son of gods and demons saving the day
hey look its a tale as old as time
its like the specific dna you need to have to be a successful adventure/fantasy/epic author throughout history
god forbid your parents are ordinary -
@Chams-0 said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
Finding out about Zoro’s ancestors wouldn’t have done anything for his character. It could maybe be an arc for the citizens of Wano, about changing their relationship with the outside world, seeing how leaving could be a good thing, since Zoro was a mix of Wano culture and world knowledge, helping the land of his ancestors
Seeing as how Wano was pretty much Momo's arc, it makes sense why Oda didn't go further in talking about Zoro's family. He only talked about people like Ushimaru since he was Oden's friend who died dying to fight for his honor and thus goes back to Momo as more motivation for why he should fight back.
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@Robby said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Alfiere said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
Like him coming face to face with the grim reaper and then nevere mentioning it again.
I think that one is extremely important and Oda wants us to forget about it until its time.
Given we know that souls exist in OP thanks to Brook, and one of the main themes of the series being inherited will,,, Zoro being a half inch from the afterlife might be super relevant eventually.
Normally I'd assume that to be the case, no doubt about it, but the context of end of Wano was so bad that "uh, so he just slept it off I guess?" was a completely conceivable outcome that I just internalised and I'm now waiting, but not really expecting, for something to disprove it.
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I think Zoro seeing death is a Klabauterman situation. When Merry repaired itself in Skypiea it was an unexplained mystery. We could all guess it was Merry’s spirit or will that did it, but the complete explanation only came much much later in W7
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Zoro vs Rob Lucci
Luffy va Saturn
Sanji vs KizaruVegapunk is dying.. will he die? Can chopper save him? Where is robin?
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@King-Cannon I don't really think this logic makes any sense. So Oda raised a question that he never had intention to answer, then answered it because people kept asking? Shouldn't that be expected?
I do agree it was probably not supposed to be a big deal, but that's all the more reason it makes no sense to leave the mystery hanging. If the point is that Zoro wouldn't care then why not show that in the manga so we can see it, like we keep seeing with Luffy disregarding all the Nika stuff? And if it doesn't matter at all why even make it a thing in the first place?
I'm pretty sure if the end of Wano wasn't so blatantly rushed, we would have gotten some kind of scene about Zoro's lineage(Remember how he wanted to visit Ryuma's grave? ) . Not a massive subplot or anything, just an explanation. And you could say might as well leave that for the SBS, but resolving story set-ups in extra material just doesn't feel right.
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@Sengokusgoat pretty much what I wanted to see. A nod of acknowledgment from Oda, and Zoro by extension, that he grasped the significance of his origins and the way his life choices brought him back.
Don't think anybody expected Oda to turn Zoro into Aragorn.
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@Chams-0 said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
Finding out about Zoro’s ancestors wouldn’t have done anything for his character. It could maybe be an arc for the citizens of Wano, about changing their relationship with the outside world, seeing how leaving could be a good thing, since Zoro was a mix of Wano culture and world knowledge, helping the land of his ancestors
Finding out that Sanji is a nazi prince didn't do much for his character either. But Oda went and did that anyhow
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@wolfwood
Yes it did. It was the start of the whole “Sanji is kind” characterization. Sanji always gave food to everyone who needed, but that was seen as him having experienced hunger when young. After Whole Cake Sanji started to be described as kind etc -
Yeah I don't really get all these WCI comparisons. That arc really was Sanji's and everything about his character was explored in it.
I know some people didn't enjoy it, but I think that's more because they wanted Sanji to maybe change in some ways, and instead what Oda did was hang a neon sign saying 'Actually Sanji's fine the way he is and if you don't like him you're a poopyhead like his dad'. Or maybe they just don't like the Vinsmoke angle or something else.
But that's not a matter of lack of focus.
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Personally i felt that the vinsmoke melodrama added nothing of value to who he is or what made him tick, all it did was taint the good groundwork he had laid in the east blue arcs.
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@Robby said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
@Alfiere said in Chapter 1107: I've Been Looking For You!!:
Like him coming face to face with the grim reaper and then nevere mentioning it again.
I think that one is extremely important and Oda wants us to forget about it until its time.
Given we know that souls exist in OP thanks to Brook, and one of the main themes of the series being inherited will,,, Zoro being a half inch from the afterlife might be super relevant eventually.
He also said he would become the King of Hell right before that
And he’s on an island where Pluton is, the ancient weapon literally named after the God of death and the underworld
Maybe those two have something to do with it too?
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