Lol so:
I usually don't criticize Oda's work as he always came to make me enjoy the thing, but heck this is hardly hard to like
Lol so:
- King has the very same skin colour of Zoro even if he should be dark thoned
- Kaidou is really useless in there as he's totally covered by the title and even his eyes aren't visible
- Why the heck the pink square goes up to Momo's body on the left side
I usually don't criticize Oda's work as he always came to make me enjoy the thing, but heck this is hardly hard to like
Oh no, I'm gonna have a hard time unseeing the weirdness with the background square. Too far up the top right, but not far enough in the middle on that side.
- Why the heck the pink square goes up to Momo's body on the left side
Oh god I won't be able to unsee that, will I?
But yeah, I'm not a fan of the color composition nor the layout
Shouldn't King's skin be brown, thought?
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
Overall, it's a pretty awkward cover.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Shouldn't King's skin be brown, thought?
It is, at least if you compare to Queen's human torso beside him.
This cover feels like two ideas mashed into one. Like it started out as a twin dragon thing but then King and Queen had to be fit in there. Maybe Oda was rushed.
Oda's ability to create technicolour populations but being unable to draw a man slightly darker is a curious one. I wonder how the anime will tackle this.
I'm a big enough man to eat my words when it comes to that. Guess I got too caught up in frame-by-framing the process vid and overthought what I was seeing. The final version looks good!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
All the covers together!
Admitting you're wrong on the internet? No! I don't want that! I want us to pointlessly argue! For ten years at least.
#Vergoshotfirst #Doflaisapunk
Wow. Can't say I care about the pink square, but kings coloring is a huge disappointment.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Volume 102 Cover !
[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNzIdpsXwAEPYvy?format=jpg&name=large[/qimg]
The contrast looks much better here.
Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.
Beyond the coloring, the posing of King and Queen just feels kinda off, both composition-wise (maybe it'd have helped if they were pointing into the lower corners, or at least more clearly to each side?), but also in that I'm not sure whats going on with Kings weird slghtly hunched posture
It is, at least if you compare to Queen's human torso beside him.
Err, no it's not. Even if we would say that beastman mode Queen's slightly brighter skin tone on the chest area matters, it still doesn't make King's color brown. How you would even say that is, is beyond me. It definitely is the same skin tone as Zoro.
Wow. Can't say I care about the pink square, but kings coloring is a huge disappointment.
"Huge disappointment" is putting in mildly in my book. It's downright idiotic. Oda himself said that one of the defining visual features of King is the darker skin tone. From a simple artistic perspective this coloring is just wrong.
ufffff, rough cover. It's a bummer cuz I love me some mint and it's a color that looks great with the other covers (just look at Captain M's coverspread)…
But, yeah, not a good looking one. The center-square color is really similar to Momonosuke's scales; his antlers, his flames and Luffy's shorts are blending into eachother; King's skin tone and hair (isn't it supposed to be silver?) aren't what I was expecting, and since his fire is described as "as hot as magma" I though his technique would have some red tones on it; Zoro jumping out of the cover and being a little to MUCH to the right, thus breaking any chance of symmetry is quite odd. Not a fan of the greenish tone used in Zoro's swords, it reminds me of Brook's soul color and I think it's much an anime-y choice to my liking. Loved Ifrit Jamble's colors, though.
and now we wait for the SBS
Also, like pointed out, the incorrect boxing is bothering me more than it should.
Also, like pointed out, the incorrect boxing is bothering me more than it should.
that's the one thing that betrays the cover to me.
96
Monkey D. Luffy
33
Roronoa Zoro
29
Usopp (3 as Sogeking), Sanji (1 inside Nami’s body)
28
Nami (1 inside Franky’s body), Tony Tony Chopper (1 inside Sanji’s body)
18
Nico Robin
16
Franky (1 inside Chopper’s body) +1 inside General Franky
14
Brook
9
Trafalgar Law
7
Nefertari Vivi, Jinbe
6
Portgas D. Ace
5
Buggy, Smoker (1 inside Tashigi’s body), Shanks, Marshall D. Teach, Rob Lucci, Momonosuke, Rebecca, Kyros (3 as Toy Soldier, 1 as a statue), Leo, Big Mom, Kaido
4
Carue, Edward Newgate, Eustass Kid, Sabo, Caesar Clown, Donquixote Doflamingo, Cavendish, Bartolomeo, Carrot, Napoleon
3
Nefertari Cobra, Crocodile, Kaku, Kalifa, Monkey D. Garp, Capone Bege, Silvers Rayleigh, Shirahoshi, Tashigi (1 inside Smoker’s body), Pekoms, Sai, Kabu, Pica, Fujitora, Mansherry, Kinemon, Pedro, Chiffon
2
Going Merry, Mr. 3, Wapol, Matsuge, Kohza, Mr. 1, Mr. 2, Bellamy, Nola, Montblanc Noland (1 as a statue), Iceburg, Blueno, Hattori, Gecko Moria, Lola, Bartholomew Kuma, X Drake, Jewelry Bonney, Basil Hawkins, Scratchman Apoo, Marco, Jozu, Izo, Akainu, Sengoku, General Franky, Baron Tamago, Baby 5, Buffalo, Chinjao, Elizabello II, Wicca, Bomba, Sugar, Trebol, Señor Pink, Koala, Ideo, Orlumbus, Hajrudin, Nekmomamushi, Inuarashi, Brûlée, Perospero, Mont-d’Or, Reiju, Zeus, Prometheus, Pudding, Katakuri, Tama, Toko, Hiyori, Queen, Hyogoro, Kawamatsu, O-Kiku, Raizo, Yamato
1
Mohji, Cabaji, Kuro, Jango, Sham, Buchi, Kaya, Piiman, Ninjin, Tamanegi, Don Krieg, Gin, Pearl, Arlong, Kuroobi, Hatchan, Chew, Momoo, Igaram, Mr. 5, Miss Valentine, Miss Monday, Mr. 9, Mr. 13, Miss Friday, Miss Valentine, Dorry, Brogy, Hiluluk, Kuromarimo, Chess, Pell, Chaka, Miss Doublefinger, Mr. 4, Miss Merry Christmas, Lassoo, Masira, Shoujou, Sengoku’s Goat, the mine foreman Buggy met, Ohm, Gedatsu, Shura, Satori, Wiper, Raky, Braham, Kamakiri, Genbo, Conis, Aisa, Gan Fall, Pierre, Su, Enel, Kalgara, Southbird, Foxy, Porche, Hamburg, Pickles, Big Pan, Capote, Monda, Itomimizu, Chuchun, Paulie, Yagara Bull, Tyrannosaurus, Mozu, Kiwi, Kokoro, Chimney, Gonbe, Sodom, Gomorrah, T-Bone, Wanze, Nero, Oimo, Kashii, Baskerville, Nico Olvia, Jaguar D. Saul, Spandam, Jabra, Kumadori, Fukurou, Funkfreed, Koby, Helmeppo, Hogback, Cindry, Perona, Absalom, Kumashi, Oars, Killer, Urouge, Boa Hancock, Boa Sandersonia, Boa Marigold, Salome, Bacura, Marigold’s Hawk, Snake Weapons, Magellan, Hannyabal, Sadi, Saldeath, Minotaurus, Blugori, Minokoala, Minorhinoceros, Minozebra, Emporio Ivankov, Inazuma, Vista, Blamenco, Rakuyo, Namur, Curiel, Kingdew, Haruta, Atmos, Speed Jiru, Fossa, Kizaru, Aokiji, Monkey D. Dragon, Makino, Curly Dadan, Thousand Sunny, Camie, Pappag, Surume, Neptune, Ichika, Nika, Sanka, Yonka, Yonka Two, Mero, Ishilly, Hiramera, Megalo, Otohime, Fisher Tiger, Fukaboshi, Hody Jones, Dosun, Zeo, Daruma, Ikaros, Hyouzou, Vander Decken IX, Wadatsumi, Mocha, Doran, Sind, Uzu, Boo, Jesus Burgess, Suleiman, Dagama, Flapper, Riku Doldo III, 2 of Señor Pink’s groupies, Violet, Farul, Kanjuro, Diamante, Giolla, Dellinger, Lao G, Gladius, Machvise, Bian, Inhel, Chao, Rampo, Gatz, Tsuru, Weevil, Miss Bakkin, Wanda, Shishilian, Giovanni, Yomo, Blackback, Roddy, Praline, Cracker, Opera, various Homies, Judge, Ichiji, Yonji, Niji, Vito, Gotti, Capone Pez, Daifuku, Oven, Compote, Smoothie, Galette, Streusen, Shimotsuki Yasuie, Kozuki Oden, Gol D. Roger, Sasaki, Black Maria, Who’s Who, Page One, Ulti, Denjiro, Ashura Doji, Yokai Homies, King
Wow, Sanji's Ifrit Jambe looks amazing in the final version of the cover ! So much attention to details on that part of the cover with the colors and light effects. I can't wait to see the final combo of that fight in the anime.
this is without doubt one of the worst covers Oda has created. not a single thing seems in the right place and the overall effect is meh
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
Following the initial 'oh yes, final colours!' surprise after waiting a week from the sketch, I'm definitely souring on this one. The overall palette is pretty nice, Sanji's leg looks great, and the core of the piece with the monster trio and Momo is a great illustration, but there's so many little niggling things. The square's been discussed already. The way the logo covers Kaido is a tad awkward, could maybe have worked if it was a transparent one like they used for volume 79 (and others). King and Queen don't have much synergy with each other - King overlaps Queen kinda weirdly. Maybe put them side by side, have only King's wing going behind Queen. And there's the skin tone, which is more of a character design issue than a this cover one, but still kinda rough. Not the worst thing ever, but we know Oda can do so much better than this.
Admitting you're wrong on the internet? No! I don't want that! I want us to pointlessly argue! For ten years at least.
To the deeeeeeeeath!
I do think this cover is a sign that Oda is stretching things over. There's not much that can be shown there that other Wano covers haven't yet.
Onçly if Zoro is also brown.
For what it's worth, https://imagecolorpicker.com/en says to me that one identifier of King's skin color scheme is #c3936f, which is a Camel color (or light yellowish brown).
Here's 20 - 30 minutes in photoshop. The square is fixed, the logo is transparent, King is darker, and Queen is on more of an equal footing with him.
Not exactly a night and day difference, but I think it smooths down a couple of the rough edges.
Here's 20 - 30 minutes in photoshop. The square is fixed, the logo is transparent, King is darker, and Queen is on more of an equal footing with him.
https://i.imgur.com/oTBSu1G.jpg
Not exactly a night and day difference, but I think it smooths down a couple of the rough edges.
Still looks brown to me, so not really a complete difference, yeah.
That one time Oda said another beautiful character would show up in Wano, I choose to believe he was referring to King(dam xoxo).
Hiyori doesnt even compare.
You made a great job @Captian M, that's the cannon cover to me.
@Zar:
Oda's ability to create technicolour populations but being unable to draw a man slightly darker is a curious one. I wonder how the anime will tackle this.
The only time prior to now that he's colored dark skinned characters was the cover for volume 13… and there it was likely because it was a kind of bland cover with no background and he needed something to make it more visually interesting. Black people as it turned out.
Even there Mr. 5 is shaded with the same colors as everyone else, just with more of the shading. And darker lips. (This is event more promiennt in the digitally colored version of the manga.)
Same thing when Daz Bones is on the volume 21 cover. He's got the exact same skintones as everyone else, just a little more shade and darker lips.
Even Miss Monday on that same volume 13 cover is using the same colors, just with very minimal highlights.
Oda colors dark skinned characters so rarely he probably doesn't have a marker set he really likes for those skintones, so he just uses what he uses for everyone.
Here's 20 - 30 minutes in photoshop. The square is fixed, the logo is transparent, King is darker, and Queen is on more of an equal footing with him.
[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/oTBSu1G.jpg[/qimg]
Not exactly a night and day difference, but I think it smooths down a couple of the rough edges.
Now that's proper brown skin!
I seriously think Sanji’s next upgrade (probably against his BB opponent) will give him black flames, perfect for someone with the nick name Black Leg
@Zar:
Oda's ability to create technicolour populations but being unable to draw a man slightly darker is a curious one. I wonder how the anime will tackle this.
It's not that he's unable too, but that Oda pretty much draws what he feels is interesting, and that things like Miss Monday are probably based specifically on real life people he finds interesting, which can be of any background.
As many have already said, it really is weird that Oda homogenized King so much after expressly noting his darker complexion. I don't know far to take my frustration, but it's like that interview where someone asked Tim Burton why there are no people of color in his movies, and he responded with "They just don't fit my aesthetic." Gotta love blatant racism with a poor excuse, though in his case it was definitely taken more out of context than he meant.
Praise our king, First fist of the Sea, DonMarimo DoBuggino exploring Bonesbeard.
If someone seriously claimed that Whitebeard was running a vibrator business as his second job you'd ignore him as a troll.
@krule274:
As many have already said, it really is weird that Oda homogenized King so much after expressly noting his darker complexion. I don't know far to take my frustration, but it's like that interview where someone asked Tim Burton why there are no people of color in his movies, and he responded with "They just don't fit my aesthetic." Gotta love blatant racism with a poor excuse, though in his case it was definitely taken more out of context than he meant.
I’m not sure why people aren’t seeing King as having a dark complexion already, and all of the sudden have to up the shadows on the brown coloring as if to accuse Oda of making mistakes and being bad. If the cover very much turns out to have a greater risk of hurting people somehow, I’ll admit to that, but until then, I see no need to worryingly frustrate over it in one’s sleep at night.
I’m not sure why people aren’t seeing King as having a dark complexion already, and all of the sudden have to up the shadows on the brown coloring as if to accuse Oda of making mistakes and being bad. If the cover very much turns out to have a greater risk of hurting people somehow, I’ll admit to that, but until then, I see no need to worryingly frustrate over it in one’s sleep at night.
I feel like you're not quite picking up why people have an issue with King's skin tone. Like yeah, you can go in with a colour picker and find that the colour used here is technically a shade of brown, but when both the dialogue and the black and white art's screentones so strongly suggest a big, noticeable difference in complexion it's pretty jarring for the final version to go no darker than the shadows on Zoro's chest. I'm not saying I'm losing sleep over it or anything, but I'll point out a weird choice when I see one.
Especially considering he could've just made the skin a non-factor to begin with if he didn't have enough different markers or thought it wouldn't look good. White hair and wings are pretty distinctive racial features anyway, not to mention the fire. Or instead of a tattoo have the face thing be a marking that naturally appears on Lunarians. But nah, he set up darker skin and chose not to deliver on it.
I think King's coloring can still change to darker tones in different pictures (Vivre Card, etc) or in the anime.
Or maybe in Oda's mind King was always this light brown amidst a sea of white white people.
I seriously think Sanji’s next upgrade (probably against his BB opponent) will give him black flames, perfect for someone with the nick name Black Leg
Or maybe it will just be him coating his legs in haki finally being visible. :ninja:
Oda is trying to make people drop the racism charges against Zoro. Too bad it won't stick.
Or maybe in Oda's mind King was always this light brown amidst a sea of white white people.
Gonna try to be really specific how I talk about this, even if being casual in the first place, since at some point the discussion could easily diverge from how King should "objectively" be portrayed, to outside of the manga and onto strong, in-depth commentary on Oda himself as a person, which may prob get to a point that that would be best discussed in another thread entirely, regardless fo who's right and who's wrong, so I'll just try to talk specifically with the manga in mind at this point.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I feel like you're not quite picking up why people have an issue with King's skin tone. Like yeah, you can go in with a colour picker and find that the colour used here is technically a shade of brown, but when both the dialogue and the black and white art's screentones so strongly suggest a big, noticeable difference in complexion it's pretty jarring for the final version to go no darker than the shadows on Zoro's chest. I'm not saying I'm losing sleep over it or anything, but I'll point out a weird choice when I see one.
Especially considering he could've just made the skin a non-factor to begin with if he didn't have enough different markers or thought it wouldn't look good. White hair and wings are pretty distinctive racial features anyway, not to mention the fire. Or instead of a tattoo have the face thing be a marking that naturally appears on Lunarians. But nah, he set up darker skin and chose not to deliver on it.
Not sure what's going on with Zoro or his lighting, but the main point, at least how I understood it, in just talking about King himself, was that he was described as brown in the manga and I feel confident enough that that point has been gotten through even now, and even with the comparisons to everyone around him. I feel like in my opinion Oda did well to deliver on that, not as an attempt to demean other opinions, but just as a simple statement of my own. If I'm really not picking up anything there, then I guess I'm not meant to at this point and that we'll have to agree to disagree, and if there's anything about that I'm truly doing wrong in my observations, then I'm sure I'll find that out in my own time, but for now, that's just what I think in regards to this manga.
I’m not sure why people aren’t seeing King as having a dark complexion already, and all of the sudden have to up the shadows on the brown coloring as if to accuse Oda of making mistakes and being bad. If the cover very much turns out to have a greater risk of hurting people somehow, I’ll admit to that, but until then, I see no need to worryingly frustrate over it in one’s sleep at night.
Not sure what's going on with Zoro or his lighting, but the main point, at least how I understood it, in just talking about King himself, was that he was described as brown in the manga and I feel confident enough that that point has been gotten through even now, and even with the comparisons to everyone around him. I feel like in my opinion Oda did well to deliver on that, not as an attempt to demean other opinions, but just as a simple statement of my own. If I'm really not picking up anything there, then I guess I'm not meant to at this point and that we'll have to agree to disagree, and if there's anything about that I'm truly doing wrong in my observations, then I'm sure I'll find that out in my own time, but for now, that's just what I think in regards to this manga.
Captain M said it pretty well, but for me, it really is more of a set up of expectation crumbling. Oda boasts diversity in his cast of characters through different physical features–wings, gills, etc--more than the color of their skin. But to make specific note of King's complexion in the story and shade him in with a darker screen tone unlike we've seen with really any other character I can think of, only to end up coloring him with the same markers as most everyone else is quite a disappointment to me. This is a fictional world, and these are fictional characters who hail from fictional races, but why make specific note of it only to not deliver in that way? Heck, we have Fishmen with an endless range of skin colors but we can't have King with the darker complexion that he's specifically stated to have?
I can understand your differing opinion, and I don't think you're wrong--as you noted you might be--in your observations, but for myself and others it goes deeper than just the markers Oda chose to use. I won't get into it here, and we'll just agree to disagree like you said, but it's indicative of much greater problems, and to see stuff like this coming from my favorite thing is frustrating--similar to the way Oda portrays and uses trans characters, but again, that's a whole other can of worms.
I mean Oda mention King was dark. He looks pretty much the same as anyone else. And thats a mistake wathever the reason is. If someone comment on Jimbei being blue than on the cover I need special lighting to distinguish to see the blue than Oda did a bad. I dont care about King not being brown enough because representation. I care because Oda decided it was a distinctive feature and couldnt be bothered to make it distinctive in its cover.
I mean Oda mention King was dark. He looks pretty much the same as anyone else. And thats a mistake wathever the reason is. If someone comment on Jimbei being blue than on the cover I need special lighting to distinguish to see the blue than Oda did a bad. I dont care about King not being brown enough because representation. I care because Oda decided it was a distinctive feature and couldnt be bothered to make it distinctive in its cover.
I will mention that I’d agree that this cover is the better cover. Even though I still think King looks fine and lives up to what was described, I also think that the lighting for the others was messed up, because looking at it again, I’d say Luffy and the others look better here than on the final cover, so I’d say that the mistake is on the lighting more than anything else.
I mean Oda mention King was dark. He looks pretty much the same as anyone else. And thats a mistake wathever the reason is. If someone comment on Jimbei being blue than on the cover I need special lighting to distinguish to see the blue than Oda did a bad. I dont care about King not being brown enough because representation. I care because Oda decided it was a distinctive feature and couldnt be bothered to make it distinctive in its cover.
Maybe Oda is just racist? :ninja:
@Johnny:
Maybe Oda is just racist? :ninja:
Does that mean Zoro is his self insert? :ninja:
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if that’s it, just him coating his fire leg with conquerors haki
I was talking about armament haki. You know, cause it's black. I thought it would be cool for his epithet to reference that. Maybe it will but Oda seems to have taken a different direction with Sanji.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Mugiwara_23
King and Queen on the spine is a surprise. I would have guessed Zoro and Sanji.
King and Queen on the spine is a surprise. I would have guessed Zoro and Sanji.
Giving them a proper goodbye.
Shueisha's website has revealed another "final" version of the cover with different colour grading to what we've seen so far.
(Also the back cover and spine)
Talking about King's skin tone, the entire cover feels pale in general, from the reveal to the official.
Shueisha's website has revealed another "final" version of the cover with different colour grading to what we've seen so far.
[qimg]https://dosbg3xlm0x1t.cloudfront.net/images/items/9784088831206/1200/9784088831206.jpg[/qimg]
(Also the back cover and spine)
[qimg]https://dosbg3xlm0x1t.cloudfront.net/images/items/9784088831206/1200/9784088831206_150.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]https://dosbg3xlm0x1t.cloudfront.net/images/items/9784088831206/1200/9784088831206_130.jpg[/qimg]
Damn, King is even whiter here.
