How will the Marines coming effect the giant party Luffy wanted to have?
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)
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@Dorobō:
And part of joining the WG is…. giving up pirates. Clearly Momo won't give Luffy up, he will give him and all the helpful pirates time to escape.
In like a month in-universe everyhthing is going to be shaken up anyway. It'll take time for official negotiations to enter the WG, by the time they do the great war will have happened.
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Remember, the World Government is not inherently an evil thing. It promotes trade and offers marine protection, and most of the world is under it.
Now, some of the people at the top are awful and need to be taken down, and a handful of marines are terrible and corrupt, but the thing, as a whole, is not bad. Drum is part of the world government! So is Alabasta! And every character's hometown! Fishman Island's entire ambition is to fairly and completely join it, as equals, after all.
Heck, when was the last time we had the marines as actual villains doing wrongs? Chasing down pirates and thus being against our heroes specifically doesn't count. So no, Aikanu killing Ace is not evil. Nuking Ohara with a buster call? Well that's definitely not a good thing.
The last outright corrupt evil marine that was terrorizing innocent people purely for the sake of it we had was… Axe hand Morgan?
ALSO keep in mind that, whatever issues the world government has... Luffy is going to find One Peice and start the great war within a few weeks or months. Whatever problems there are with bad people in charge? Will be taken care of inside of year.
Joining the world government is not inherently bad. Aside from whatever messed up thing the 19 kings did 800 years ago that Alabasta refused to join in on.
The World Government in One Piece are the central antagonists. What's happening in the One Piece world began centuries earlier. The treasure has been protected by Joyboy's allies for centuries because they failed to prevent whatever happened in the Voice Century from happening.
The World Gov. is the apparatus created by these dark forces. Of course there are plenty of people within the ranks of the Marines and member nations of the WG who are not evil.
But the World Government are the bad guys of One Piece.
By the way, this same argument applies to Yamato sailing with the Straw Hats. Luffy's going to start a war in a short time. I'm not saying Yamato will remain on Wano - but if she does, it won't be for long. People act like her remaining on Wano means she'll never be free like Oden when we're talking about her staying there for a relatively short time in-universe until the endgame events begin. I'm not saying that it will happen this way, but Wano only needs protecting as long as there's something to protect it from (The World Government).
The World Government are an active force for evil in the world, not a passive one. Which is why it is important Wano remains independent and is also the key reason Teach is not the person Roger is waiting for and isn't the final antagonist of One Piece.
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We as readers know the world is going to shake in a month. The characters don't know that. We as readers knwo the government is fucked up at the top and needs toppling. The characters don't know that.
For all intents and purposes to the world at large, joining the group is a GOOD thing. And in the not too distant future, the public image of the GOOD thing will be actual truth what the tenryuubiito are taken down.
And Yamato's dream, stated aloud, is explicitly to travel with Luffy. Not just "to sail" but to sail… with Luffy. That's not getting put on hold. We're not getting a Jinbe repeat.
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I've come to find out that apparently some people are hesitating of wanting characters like Yamato to join the crew because they're worried, if not, scared Zoro and Sanji won't be getting the second and third most important fights, as if characters' worth are only gauged by what fights they're apart of and will be devastating to the entire series. They even smack down Jinbe as underserving of being closer-knit in the crew for that same reason, despite having helped save Luffy at Marineford, as if there's fear that Jinbe and Yamato will be the "superior" two front wings on a dragonfly while Zoro and Sanji end up as the "inferior" two back wings.
It's astounding really. Just can't even believe some people will resort to bringing other characters down, and even disrespect them with mudslinging regardless how much they've helped out, so as to bring other characters up out of favoritism. At that point, it's just looking like Zoro and Sanji are built on top of mountains of disrespect, slander, and just all around nasty mudslinging and that really obscures how characters are viewed for what they're doing on the whole. It makes me wonder how fragile the monster trio dynamic really is if one has to resort to down talk on characters like Jinbe and Yamato so as to keep Zoro and Sanji up high on silvery shiny pedestals in the sky.
What do you guys think?
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I do not believe anyone stronger than Zoro and Sanji will join the crew. Oda seems intent on preserving the 'monster trio' dynamic.
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Zoro and Sanji could easily get a major power boost before the end of an arc, even if the new character(s) are technically stronger than them when they first show up.
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I have no problem with a character stronger than Zoro and Sanji, or at their same level, joining the crew. And that might be the case with Yamato, just like Oden was arguably as strong as Rayleigh and Scopper (or even stronger), so there's the precedent. And Yamato will be there at the top of the crew because he is already a powerhouse. So even if Yamato doesn't grow stronger anymore, we're already talking about someone who can hold a Yonkou, someone who's possibly equal to an Admiral, which is more or less the highest tier.
By the end of the series, Zoro and Sanji might be stronger than Yamato, but only slightly. It's not the same as Robin and Jimbe, who were strong, but there was a lot of room to surpass them since the ceiling was much above them. That said, the importance of Sanji and Zoro goes beyond Yamato, since they're pillars of the crew since the start of the manga, for the readers and for the crewmates, and now they're the Wings.
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I have no problem with a character stronger than Zoro and Sanji, or at their same level, joining the crew. And that might be the case with Yamato, just like Oden was arguably as strong as Rayleigh and Scopper (or even stronger), so there's the precedent. And Yamato will be there at the top of the crew because he is already a powerhouse. So even if Yamato doesn't grow stronger anymore, we're already talking about someone who can hold a Yonkou, someone who's possibly equal to an Admiral, which is more or less the highest tier.
I suppose so. I mean, for someone like Yamato for example who spent multiple years fighting and training against an Emperor, I don't think it would ruin the series if Yamato had more experience than Zoro and Sanji. I'd still keep reading, though I suppose others would stop reading altogether.
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Oda directly stated that Momonosuke has the mind of a child. I don't think there's any chance he'll wed Momonosuke to anyone in the present.
Momonosuke was physically aged to his rightful age. The wedding doesn't have to be immediate. They can be engaged until Momo matures mentally.
@Zik:Just like I said about the Oden parallel to Yamato, he wasn't foreshadowed. Oda didn't have a plethora of foreshadowing for that. Before Oden, you all thought Roger could read the poneglyph cuz he could hear the voice of all things.
So yeah same way Oden just popped and got his story delved in to, same can happen with Yamato as he joins.
Oden became more than just a translator to the Roger pirates.
Why does this matter? We're talking about Yamato.
Nobody has ever said if a character knew Ace that means they're joining the crew.
You pretending like Yamato's connection to Ace is an afterthought given what Ace has meant to Yamato and Luffy is ridiculous though.
Then maybe you're not paying attention to the hints?
I mean its not like a ton of ppl knew what Robin's importance to the story would be at all. She was an archeologist and assassin. Those are not ship positions.
Then there's Jimbe but I'm sure you saw all the hints of a helmsman back during Impel Down and Marineford as they sailed in one direction.
Its pretty simple if you look at the parallels and their stories. Both were trapped in a place they wanted to leave. Both wanted to explore the world and go on adventures. Oden eventually got to do that. Then came back to his homeland and chose a new path in opening the countries borders. Yamato admires all of that to an extreme extent given his loneliness to the point that after seeing how Oden died he wanted to be him. So like Oden, Yamato wanted to be free, go on adventures, etc. but he also wanted to complete/achieve what Oden couldn't in opening Wano's borders. His initial plan was to leave, go on adventures, and like he swore to the samurai return to Wano in 20 years like Oden said and help drive Kaido out of Wano. Instead he was trapped there for all that time but he still plans to free Wano and then do what he couldn't before, go on adventures and explore the world like Oden did.
Momo isn't like his father. He's barely right now got the confidence to stand up to Kaido and do things on his own. He needs to be chastised in to it by Luffy and Yamato.
Luffy obviously is a bit more like Oden in that he does what he wants, is free, and has pretty much been doing all the things Oden did as WB and Roger pirate.
This honestly probably shouldnt have to be explained if you're paying attention to that rather large part of the story.
Yeah, its just a gag at this point.
Just cuz Yamato said Luffy is mire Oden than him doesn't mean Luffy is Oden.
Its really not making sense why you would actually think that.
Why would it? Yamato isn't a swordsman. He isn't a collector of all things Oden. What does Oden's sword being in Zoro's possession have to do with his diversity?
It doesn't really make sense to me.
I don't think this matters at all.
It only matters if Oda wants to keep doing it. If he does then the character will. Plenty of the audience are not entertained by Sanji perving out on women or Brook asking to see women's panties or Sanji's reaction to okama but Oda keeps doing it and those seem to be 3 things he'll never stop using as jokes. Just like Zoro's poor direction.
Sure.
Just like all the other times Luffy denied ppl from sailing with him
Its okay if you think this.
You're leaving out parts of the story. Yamato was interested in Luffy once Ace started telling stories about him to Yamato.
Momo isn't going to die and he doesn't need Yamato's protection.
At least 10 years where he would then mentally be 18.
I'm sure he'll try to act older than he is but he's still a kid.
And I do not see Yamato falling in love with a child. That's pretty much pedophilia.
Yeah, no.
Yamato doesnt need to have sex with a child in a man's body and have his children ti be like Oden.
That's really not what Oda was going for by having Yamato say he wants to be Oden.
Lest we not forget Yamato assumed the gender role of a man to be more like Oden. Oden never got pregnant and had children so Yamato won't.
Never said they did.
They'll lose.
Who said thats going to happen?
It's not.
Why not the ppl of Wano? The samurai? The ninja?
Plenty allies around to fight if that's what the WG want to do.
Its Kaido. Even if he loses he's still the leader.
This would be a terrible guess.
Yamato does not become the de facto leader of a pirate crew he isn't even a part of. Especially after beating them all up all night.
Also you forget about the Big Mom pirates. Those WG ships will be lucky to make it to Wano.
Separating is bothersome so I'll lump my response together.
I believe Oda will foreshadow who joins the crew especially this late in the series. That has been the trend if you go back. I expect more foreshadowing not less.
What do you infer will be Yamato's ship role? Even if someone didn't know Robin's or Jinbe's roles hints were there.
Many of the Beast Pirates will not be following Kaido after this battle. These leftovers may be welcomed to join under Shogun Momo as refugees. Rather Wano soldiers than WG prisoners.
Diversity as in uniqueness. Yamato shtick is all things Oden but yet doesn't even believe they are the most Oden person. Plus another SH crewmate possesses one of Oden's swords. It makes me question who is Yamato without Oden.
Momo was an 8 year old boy who timetraveled 20 years into the future. Now Momo has been physically aged to match the timeline. The laws of reality cannot be taken so seriously in One Piece. This includes relationships between a child in man's body and an oni woman. If they did actually ended up together it wouldn't be as terrible as you're making it out to be. Momo has already done questionable things to Nami and Robin as a perverted 8 year old. Yamato being attracted to a grown Momo that resembles Oden is a possibility.
All of Wano's ninjas, samurai, and people AFTER WAR aren't enough to scare off the WG. Adding remnants of the Beast Pirates and Yamato helps in protecting Wano.
Yamato joining the Kozuki Clan seems fitting for a character who idolizes Kozuki Oden. Yamato may have the choice be to leave Wano with Luffy or stay in Wano to bond with Momonosuke about Oden. Would Oden leave Momonosuke again when Wano needs him most?
I noticed you have not voted. Are you unsure?
@Robby:What was the foreshadowing for Usopp? Or Robin? Heck, Vivi is an unnofficial strawhat and we know as a matter of record Oda made her up on the spot. (also all the Supernovas, including Law)
Cook, doctor, shipwright, musician are jobs they picked out in advance and actively hunted for. They never hunted for an archeologist or a helmsman (or a navigator for that matter.) Everyone else they've just met as they've gone. Even Jinbe's weird decade long case they didn't specify a need for a helmsman until after he already joined.
Foreshadowing means it will have some significance later in the story. It doesn't mean the crew has to actively look for it.
Koby mentioned Zoro. Luffy was piqued with interest.
Koby and Zoro mentioned at different times to Luffy about needing a navigator. Zoro indirectly complimented Nami's navigation skills.
Usopp's dad being Yasopp who is in Luffy's favorite crew.
The cook allusions refer to Sanji.
Luffy stated he likes snow and built a snowman. Chopper was referenced as an Abominable Snowman who happens to the alluded doctor.Vivi is a clear anomaly that was not planned and is still being handled as a such. She is a princess that is a part time crew member hence the 5.5. She should only be used for comparison if you expect the same for Yamato as 10.5
Robin was introduced as the mysterious enemy that was actually helpful. Her ability to read Ponegliffs alluded to the mystery of how to get to One Piece.
Franky is a needed carpenter that "resembles" Luffy's drawing.
Brook had features and connections we the reader realized Luffy wanted since the beginning.
Jinbe was name-dropped way before his appearance. Jesus Burgess is the helmsman for the BB Pirates. Jinbe displayed helming in ID/MF so the evidence was there to interpret.What can be interpreted about Yamato? Never mentioned before Wano. No clear ship role. A dream almost as vague as Carrot's. Yamato has not displayed any feats nor features that Luffy has shown interest in the past like Chopper or Brook.
I believe Oda has planned who the next crewmate is well in advance.
@Dorobō:Yes.
Then he will be a crew member. Also they do not have the same connection. You do get how not all connections are the same right?
So you do get there are more meaningful connections. And Yamato drank with Ace. The deepest connection Luffy had with Ace was their Peach Garden Promise. The blood oath matters a ton for Luffy and Jinbe. But Yamato being this close to Ace? There has to be a point. Either brother or crew member. And it's most likely crew member.
Kind of does after saying he will.
The WG will treat them better but you better believe they will be part of the WG after this arc. Open boarders means they will join the WG in some form.
Luffy's and Yamato's bond is not special. Yamato and Ace are not "brothers" just because they drank together. As you mentioned, Ace, Sabo, and Luffy made a brothers oath and spent months/years with each other. It hasn't even been a day between Luffy and Yamato.
The Kozuki Clan closed the borders se time ago from some threat. Probably the WG. Just because Wano opens its borders does not mean it will join the WG.
Bounty: 382M Quirks: High Places | Garchu
Roles: Ship Guard | Ship's Cat | Lookout
Clues: Ch 175 | Statue | Foxy Flag | Paw DF
Dreams: Travel w/ PK | The Dawn
Survival: Moon Resurrection | Will of P
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I don't give a shit about power levels. WHo cares?
Luffy got beat up by Apoo at the start of the arc. It doesn't matter, Oda will make the enemies exactly as strong and tricky as they need to be.. There being more powerhouses doesn't matter especially since we're heading into endgame anyway.
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I'm not using strength as an argument against anyone joining. But if any character joins, I do not believe they will be stronger than Zoro and Sanji.
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Foreshadowing means it will have some significance later in the story. It doesn't mean the crew has to actively look for it.
Koby mentioned Zoro. Luffy was piqued with interest.
Koby and Zoro mentioned at different times to Luffy about needing a navigator. Zoro indirectly complimented Nami's navigation skills.
Usopp's dad being Yasopp who is in Luffy's favorite crew.
The cook allusions refer to Sanji.
Luffy stated he likes snow and built a snowman. Chopper was referenced as an Abominable Snowman who happens to the alluded doctor.If THAT is your standard of foreshadowing, then Ace showed Luffy a vivre card 20 years ago without mentioning where he got it, and foreshadowed having been to Wano during the War when found out about Oars' hat..
Or, how about how Yamato was in Oden's flashback? Or how Kaidou mentioned his disobedient some like ten chapters before Yamato actually showed up, the pages immediately after they talked about delaying Jinbe's toast.
There's a lot of argument to be made for the idea that we COULDN'T know about Yamato prior to knowing Oden, because none of it works without that grounding.
If you're willing to go with "this character was mentioned five pages before they appeared, in the third chapter" as foreshadowing for Zoro, or Nami who was literally in the first color spread of the first chapter, then Yamato was teased much further in advance of his actual appearance.
If your foreshadowing standard really is as simple as "mentioned at least five pages in advance before appearing" then Yamato certainly qualifies.
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If THAT is your standard of foreshadowing, then Ace showed Luffy a vivre card 20 years ago, and foreshadowed having been to Wano during the War.
Or, how about Kaidou mentioned his disobedient some like ten chapters before Yamato actually showed up, the pages immediately after they talked about delaying Jinbe's toast.
If you're willing to go with "this character was mentioned two pages before they appeared" as foreshadowing for Zoro, or Nami who was in the first color spread, then Yamato was teased plenty in advance.
The Vivre Card being made by Yamato is 100% a retcon. Lola told the Straw Hats Vivre Cards were made in a specific location. Oda clearly changed his mind about that by the time Sabo made Luffy's Vivre Card on Dressrosa.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
The Vivre Card being made by Yamato is 100% a retcon.
Sure. Won't argue that.
So's Sabo. He's still officially Luffy's second brother all the same who was never hinted at until right before Ace died.
It's still part of the story as we now have it. Retcon or not, its retroactively tying this current thing to an older thing.
"Oh, there was a third brother named Sabo, and THAT'S why Ace's tatoo has a crossed out S! That's way better than it being a funny thing where a drunk sailor just misspelled it. It's not a cute charming quirk, it's deep dramatic backstory!"
See also Sanji's second backstory, the X marks when the crew said farewell to Vivi, Hiriluk's dream being to turn mountains into cherry blossoms, most applications of haki, and any number of other things including Warlords and Supernovas. .
Oda retrofits stuff all the time, it's not always planned decades in advance. Sometimes it is! But its not a requisite.. Its still part of the story, and he chooses to fit current developments to older ones, even if he didn't intend them as such at the time.
If you start pulling apart at that thread, the entire story collapses.
In this particular case, barring an interview telling us, we'll never know how much detail Oda had in mind for Ace's Wano journey or who he met, but he DID have Ace visiting Wano in mind a decade ago.
And making the vivre card probably wasn't intended to be a hint, but it was turned into one. Anyone doing a re-read of the series will now get to that scene all the way back when, and think "Hey, Yamato gave him that card" 80 volumes in advance. It wasn't a thing then, but it is now.
The same way now if you reread Marineford, you know in the back of your head that Sabo exists, and having lost that one brother already is part of what is driving Luffy SO hard, or that Ace's defending him is instinctive. It's a layer that has been added that's just there now, regardless of when Oda thought of it.
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Premise: "power levels scales" is bullcrap made up by fans, and these kind of debates have no reason to exist. Having said that, I don't think it's gonna happen, mainly because both Zoro and Sanji will certainly get stronger as well. Regardless, it won't be devastating at all.
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I mean I dunno about devasting. I just believe Oda loves Zoro and will always have him be the ultimate badass of the crew. So I dont seem ever notbe portrayed has #2
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Wano joining the WG at the end of the arc is almost a given now.
First of all, its kinda the only way to get the whole "open the borders" thing done.
Also I don't think "let's now try a different pirate overlord" would fly well with the average wanoese.Second, marine warships are going there.
Right after teasing the new superweapon that made them instantly confident about dismantling the Warlord fleet.
Knowing full wel there are currently 3 emperors with their crew there.
This was announced by very bad guy Lucci, in an ominous tone.
It's pretty clear it's going to be "Wano joins or else". And new Shogun Momo knows all too well that Wano can't handle a war against the world in its current state, if ever.
He's going to help the SH escape in any possible way, but he's going to compromise with the WG, demostrating his leadership qualities.
BM pirates are there just to be worfed, Yonko era is over anyway.Any other outcome i can think of based on what we know would require quite the huge amount of bullshit to float.
So yeah, Yams got no place on wano after his father's fall. Not that he'd stay even if he had one anyway.
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The last outright corrupt evil marine that was terrorizing innocent people purely for the sake of it we had was… Axe hand Morgan?
Nezumi? But still a while ago
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Wano annexed by WG will be very sad tho, I'd reckon the fleet will be annihilated by something before they can make a landfall. Hey, maybe drop Onigashima on them?
Luffy and co expelling WG invasion army AFTER defeating Kaido (and maybe Big Mom)? They will be very afraid going in again
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Sure. Won't argue that.
So's Sabo. He's still officially Luffy's second brother all the same who was never hinted at until right before Ace died.
It's still part of the story as we now have it. Retcon or not, its retroactively tying this current thing to an older thing.
"Oh, there was a third brother named Sabo, and THAT'S why Ace's tatoo has a crossed out S! That's way better than it being a funny thing where a drunk sailor just misspelled it. It's not a cute charming quirk, it's deep dramatic backstory!"
See also Sanji's second backstory, the X marks when the crew said farewell to Vivi, Hiriluk's dream being to turn mountains into cherry blossoms, most applications of haki, and any number of other things including Warlords and Supernovas. .
Oda retrofits stuff all the time, it's not always planned decades in advance. Sometimes it is! But its not a requisite.. Its still part of the story, and he chooses to fit current developments to older ones, even if he didn't intend them as such at the time.
If you start pulling apart at that thread, the entire story collapses.
In this particular case, barring an interview telling us, we'll never know how much detail Oda had in mind for Ace's Wano journey or who he met, but he DID have Ace visiting Wano in mind a decade ago.
And making the vivre card probably wasn't intended to be a hint, but it was turned into one. Anyone doing a re-read of the series will now get to that scene all the way back when, and think "Hey, Yamato gave him that card" 80 volumes in advance. It wasn't a thing then, but it is now.
The same way now if you reread Marineford, you know in the back of your head that Sabo exists, and having lost that one brother already is part of what is driving Luffy SO hard, or that Ace's defending him is instinctive. It's a layer that has been added that's just there now, regardless of when Oda thought of it.
I mean, Oda thinks some things ahead of time, probably because of working backwards from the ending like having a long lost friend of Brook appear at Reverse Mountain, while other times you really just get the feeling he's just thinking up of a lot of ideas and taking a while to choose the best ones, like how he debuted Doflamingo in 2002, the guy responsible for killing Law's love one Rocinante, even though Law apparently wasn't created until 2008. Law being also the one who rescued Luffy from Marineford makes you wonder what the alternative Oda must have been thinking when he drew Ace getting captured by Blackbeard during Post-Enies Lobby.
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Usopp's dad being Yasopp who is in Luffy's favorite crew.
There was an Oden in Luffy's favorite crew too:ninja:
Robin was introduced as the mysterious enemy that was actually helpful. Her ability to read Ponegliffs alluded to the mystery of how to get to One Piece.
You're not even mentioning what was the foreshadowing for Robin here, you jumped straight to "she was introduced".
I been actually thinking that a lot of people have got their minds set on 'next crewmate should be subtly and slowly worked on', that Yamato coming in and making it crystal clear from the very beggining just feels like a disturbance in the force. We now know that there was 10 people total in Oda's earliest sketch of the crew, which is kinda contradictory to Luffy's statement about wishing to recruit 10 people(which was recently addressed by the Magazine and clarified Luffy isn't counting himself on that one), but my point is, can't the author just be allowed to surprise us all readers by just doing what he's doing right now? I would say, heck yeah can!
Also, I really liked the Yamato/Trunks analogy, really strong guy shows up to be the last Z warrior, seems to be very close in strenght to Goku at first, but Vegeta and Gohan surpass him eventualy, cover volume art immediately displays him as if he was part of the crew, great hairstyle, everyone notices how he looks like Bulma from the begginin, great genes from his dad too, apparently knows the whole story but things develop differently, and oh heeey, big bad villain related to inhuman experimentations.
Oda does a lot of DB references here and there, it would seem to me, this is just him paying huge respect to Toriyama(yet again).
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Kinda disagree with that because that outcome will kind of kill the promise of the party for which they delayed the Jinbe toast.
That said on paper it seems like a feasible thing that could happen and a promise delayed is a kind of subversion that I find somewhat easier to swallow than some of the stuff other people suggested like Oden actually having survived months back. So while I disagree with it I do think it's within the realm of realistic possibilities.
But for now I just very strongly believe in that Oda is going to follow through in usual fashion and we're going to get that party in the end.
The way the festival has been introduced, all the little nods of the old guard changing for the new, what this victory for Luffy will mean to the world, etc it just would strike me as a very untypical Oda to end this big arc he's build up for so many years in a capitulation of Wano to the government and not a huge victory for Luffy and a celebratory closer on their victory. -
Nope, I'm pretty sure Zoro and Sanji will always be at least as strong as anyone else on the crew (except maybe Luffy).
My main concern would be as the "strong" half of the crew gets stronger the other half gets increasingly side-lined, Oda has always struggled with giving some of the crew their moments to shine and I would hate for that to get worse.
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Having gained the right to vote, I voted "No"… I don't find any argument against Yamato joining the crew to be very convincing, but I still have difficulty seeing it happening. I hope I'm wrong, though!
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Honestly, I think it's a non-issue.
I view Zoro as more or less on par with Yamato already - he acquitted himself pretty well in the group fight against Kaidou and Big Mom, and even if he's a bit behind Yams at the moment, we all know he's on an upward trajectory. And while I don't pretend to know how whatever's going on with Sanji is going to play out, it's clear it is intended to serve as a significant power-up for him.
Operating on the assumption that Yamato is joining the crew, while he is clearly extremely strong and will obviously get stronger going forward, the benefit of Yams being introduced late is that he hasn't had the opportunity to show everything he is capable of yet. He can still "get by" for another arc or so on the strength and skills he currently has before needing to ramp up to the same kind of "growth rate" that the other Strawhat heavy-hitters (Zoro and Sanji, in particular) operate at, and that gives them plenty of time to surpass him.
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I wanted to vote “yes”, as I believe 100% Yamato is going to be the next nakama, and probably won’t be the last. But to think of it, I also want to vote “no” just for fun purpose
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Monster trio is a thing of the past. Now Zoro and Sanji are the Wings of the Pirate King, which essentially mean they will still get the big fights and be shown as the two major crewmembers. Strenght and power scale are not relevant to that configuration anymore.
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As strength and power are part of Zoro's dream, personality and character, I couldn't easily accept him to not be the strongest after Luffy. On the other side Sanji's role is cook and strategy and I always saw him as the third strongest just cause there's not any stronger yet. I never saw their rivalry as a strength driven one, but more about personalities.
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With the WG threat now being revealed, I feel that plot point could very well be resolved by the people of Wano not wanting Luffy to get involved, but to defend their country themselves. Cue Yamato chosing to side Wano in this and the scene of the two guardian deities, the dragon and the wolf, coming to teach the invaders a lesson.
You're naive if you think the Straw Hats won't stay and fight. The WG is not a looming threat, but literally at the doorstep.
It wasn't a problem before because the previous islands the Straw Hats went through were already WG-alligned. The Straw Hats just do what they want to, and they won't leave until the matter is solved.
It's also very possible that something impedes the WG-fleet from arriving. Shanks, the SH fleet, Big Mom Pirates, etc.
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Kinda disagree with that because that outcome will kind of kill the promise of the party for which they delayed the Jinbe toast.
That said on paper it seems like a feasible thing that could happen and a promise delayed is a kind of subversion that I find somewhat easier to swallow than some of the stuff other people suggested like Oden actually having survived months back. So while I disagree with it I do think it's within the realm of realistic possibilities.
But for now I just very strongly believe in that Oda is going to follow through in usual fashion and we're going to get that party in the end.
The way the festival has been introduced, all the little nods of the old guard changing for the new, what this victory for Luffy will mean to the world, etc it just would strike me as a very untypical Oda to end this big arc he's build up for so many years in a capitulation of Wano to the government and not a huge victory for Luffy and a celebratory closer on their victory.This can also be a good opportunity for having Luffy lose big, second defeat since the split. The party will still happen.
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Momonosuke was physically aged to his rightful age. The wedding doesn't have to be immediate. They can be engaged until Momo matures mentally.
So 10 years at the earliest in the story.
Yeah, that's not happening.
Not to mention Oda doesn't bother to do romance. He didn't create Yamato just so he could have Kozuki children. That's some weird fanfic and shipping.
Nothing in the story points to that happening right now.
I believe Oda will foreshadow who joins the crew especially this late in the series. That has been the trend if you go back. I expect more foreshadowing not less.
No reason to argue with your beliefs especially when its already been pointed out what you're saying about foreshadowing isn't even correct.
What do you infer will be Yamato's ship role? Even if someone didn't know Robin's or Jinbe's roles hints were there.
Logkeeper/scribe like Oden was, pirate apprentice, cabin boy. I'm open to anything. See ppl suggest stuff like ship guard or stonemason.
It's w/e to me cuz I know Oda will just make the position after the fact. Like he did with helmsman or like how he revealed poneglyphs were important after the fact.
I don't agree about there being hints for a helmsman or archeologist/poneglyph translator. The strawhats didn't need one despite the erratic grandline weather. They had Nami and that was enough. Knock up streams, Florian triangle, ship coating to go underwater, all didn't nedd the best helmsman. Even after entering the New World we don't even get anything like Franky saying the Sunny is going to need someone better to steer the ship in dangerous situations. Jimbe's role is presented as a total bonus to the crew.
When poneglyphs were first introduced the only importance we knew they had is they held a country's history and they gave the location of the ancient weapons. One Piece isn't about finding that so there were no hints that the crew would need someone like Robin. She showed her importance and relevance to the main plot after she joined in the next arc.
Many of the Beast Pirates will not be following Kaido after this battle.
Doesn't mean they'll follow Yamato or join Momo.
These leftovers may be welcomed to join under Shogun Momo as refugees. Rather Wano soldiers than WG prisoners.
The Beast pirates without Kaido are not refugees. Do you know what a refugee is? Refugees don't invade and take over countries, ruin them, and then when beaten ask to serve the new rulers as soldiers. They're pirates. Most of them not brainwashed by Tama will leave, some may quit being pirates, other may join Big Mom, some may try to disguise themselves and stay in Wano.
Only Beast pirates that night get to stay are the ones that have already switched sides after Queen was about to kill all of them.
Diversity as in uniqueness. Yamato shtick is all things Oden but yet doesn't even believe they are the most Oden person.
So what?Why does he have to believe he's the most Oden for the shtick to work?
Plus another SH crewmate possesses one of Oden's swords.
This doesn't matter.
It makes me question who is Yamato without Oden.
Son of Kaido
Oni
Potential honorary samurai
Potential explorer and adventurer
Mythical zoan devil fruit user
Really strong fighter
And a bunch of other character traitsMomo was an 8 year old boy who timetraveled 20 years into the future. Now Momo has been physically aged to match the timeline. The laws of reality cannot be taken so seriously in One Piece. This includes relationships between a child in man's body and an oni woman.
You are the only one suggesting this weird pedophile adjacent pairing though.
Its not so much the laws of reality I'm going by just my natural reaction to the scenario you are suggesting.
I don't think Oda is going to do that at all or anything like it.
If they did actually ended up together it wouldn't be as terrible as you're making it out to be. Momo has already done questionable things to Nami and Robin as a perverted 8 year old.
This is not the same thing and you should know this.
Yamato being attracted to a grown Momo that resembles Oden is a possibility.
No its not.
Just sounds like dumb weird fan fix shipping.
All of Wano's ninjas, samurai, and people AFTER WAR aren't enough to scare off the WG. Adding remnants of the Beast Pirates and Yamato helps in protecting Wano.
You're talking like the minks and pirates will all be gone.
The minks already have a strong connection to the samurai so they're not gonna ditch them.
Yamato on top of that is not going to make a difference.
The
Yamato joining the Kozuki Clan seems fitting for a character who idolizes Kozuki Oden.
Except what Yamato wants to do and has clearly stated is that he wants to explore and go on adventures like Oden did.
Its not fitting at all for him to just have a family and ignore his dreams.
Yamato may have the choice be to leave Wano with Luffy or stay in Wano to bond with Momonosuke about Oden. Would Oden leave Momonosuke again when Wano needs him most?
There is no choice.
Yamato already said he wants to leave with Luffy after learning Momo was alive.
If Oden had never gone adventures and saw the world like Yamato he would definitely leave Momo behind like he did with Roger.
I noticed you have not voted. Are you unsure?
I don't care that much about the poll. Pretty sure I didn't vote in the last one either.
My posts speak for themselves.
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I don't get why people are still talking about the Monster Trio now that Jimbei's officially on board. I even have to re-evaluate my assessment of the crew's dynamic with this new display of everyone's talents. It used to be, Powerhouses (Luffy, Sanji, Jimbei, Zoro), the weaklings who made up for it with special skills (Usopp, Nami, Brook, Robin), and the hybrids who were able to boost their strength with a versatile skill set (Chopper's transformations, especially Monster Point, and Franky with the Shogun). Because of how those numbers worked out, I was thinking the next one should logically be one of the Hybrids but since Robin showed us that Devil thing, plus the Manos Gigantes type attacks, I think it's safe to move her over there and leave the non-Powerhouses at 3 and 3. So there isn't really any place more appropriate than another at this point for anyone to join without throwing the balance off. Though if I had to guess, and Yamato is my current #1 candidate for new nakama, I'd say Yamato actually falls into the Hybrid category since even with her obvious strength, her transformation capability probably has more applications than just brute strength. I can't say as yet whether she will end up displaying a greater degree of strength than any of the Powerhouses but even if that's the case, I don't think it's problematic. I can't imagine what her role in the crew would be so it's not like being stronger than the First Mate is going to correspond to a particular job.
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@K.:
This can also be a good opportunity for having Luffy lose big, second defeat since the split. The party will still happen.
I don't quite follow on that because this is literally a built up event over 10 years and people expect it to culminate in a defeat? I'm just so very doubtful. In no shape or form does Wano follow any of the signs that Sabaody and Marineford fell into. With EL and Thriller Bark pushing Luffy beyond his limits and Sabaody and Marineford being the big red flags of you're not ready.
When you look at the leadup to Wano it's consistently Luffy mastering skills to get ready, he is consistently proclaiming to be ready to challenge everyone in his way to pirate king(no hesistation to go for Kaido since Punk Hazard, no fear challenging Fujitora, etc).
Beyond that Luffy this arc has already gone through 2 major power ups. Advanced COA and COC infusion.
I don't know for me everything points towards this leading to a triumph that will shake the world. Luffy having to run and the WG taking over Wano goes so against that I'm like 80% sure that won't happen.As for the party will still happen? In what way if they have to run away. That's not a mood to have a party in. We're talking about the author that specifically didn't kill characters in the past to make the parties at the end have the gloom hanging over them.
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I don't see how Wano joining the WG would be a defeat for Luffy. He didn't go there to conquer it, his goal was always defeating Kaido. Pirates are fighting on Onigashima to makke a name for themselves at the expenses of the old glories, the quite literal dinosaurs of this era. Samurais are fighting to put an end to 20 years of oppresion at the hands of Kaido and Orochi and to avenge Oden. What happens next is non-factor for the former (except maybe i could see Kid wanting to replace Kaido) and a secondary matter to the latter, except for the purpose of "opening the borders"… which basically coincides with joining the WG.
Keep in mind that Wano is not just another island, we know that it's crucial for very important reasons that have been repeatedly teased till now. It's highly unlikely that the WG would let it go easily just after one initial setback, they'd just keep coming with greater and greater force against one small country coming from two decades of famine and enslavement, it would be suicidial for any Shogun to defy them.
Luffy already got everything he had to gain from this: the soon to be Shogun of wano and the entire elite are his personal friends and owe him everything, and will undoubtly take his side at the final showdown, he gained advanceed combat expertise, huge insights on the final phase of his journey, peerless glory and renown.And once again, remember the Marines now have a super-duper weapon that turned the seven warlords from an asset to a liability basically overnight, and there-s no way it-s not what they-re going to use against emperors. If it was defeated immediately at its first showing, that would be unbelievably anticlimatic, and would make a complete joke of a wolrd government military as an anatagonist to our rebellious heroes.
to keep all this somehow in-topic: it's the same reasoning i follow for Yamato joining: it's been setup, it makes narrative sense, therefore it's going to happen. Unless i'm missing something.
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I don't quite follow on that because this is literally a built up event over 10 years and people expect it to culminate in a defeat? I'm just so very doubtful. In no shape or form does Wano follow any of the signs that Sabaody and Marineford fell into.
Oh, there are several, alright. What's funny is that Oda has laid them all bare even as he's lulling readers into a false sense of security. Winter's gonna be fun.
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It's a defeat because would the island be really celebrating going from yonko tyranny into wg occupation? The type of party I strongly expect is the whole of Wano having a true fire festival with people being happy with no asterisk hanging over them.
The more I write it out the more I feel it would be immensely non Oda to go in that direction. In Luffy's own words, the party he is looking forward to have after his victory is the "biggest and best party" yet. That's just not going to work with an actual WG occupation. I don't also think that's a very coherent narrative conclusion to "opening Wano's borders". To me that phrase very much speaks to the idea of opening yourself up to the freedoms/experience the wider world can offer vs staying isolated and limited. It's in line with what Oden's original feelings were about wanting to leave Wano in the first place.
To think that the end of that is "become a puppet to the WG and help Luffy escape" …. nah I really think that's a big no go. We'll see soon. -
So wait now people are suggesting that Yamato’s role in the story is to have babies with Momo? Who has the mind of a child? And no one’s talking about this?
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So wait now people are suggesting that Yamato’s role in the story is to have babies with Momo? Who has the mind of a child? And no one’s talking about this?
I'm just generally trying to ignore stuff that has 0 merit and not comment on it even if I fail along the way here and there. Cause realistically what is there to discuss with that cause that's just such a fundamentally different read on the story that it's unlikely there is much to agree on and time will prove it as a misread.
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I don't quite follow on that because this is literally a built up event over 10 years and people expect it to culminate in a defeat? I'm just so very doubtful. In no shape or form does Wano follow any of the signs that Sabaody and Marineford fell into. With EL and Thriller Bark pushing Luffy beyond his limits and Sabaody and Marineford being the big red flags of you're not ready.
When you look at the leadup to Wano it's consistently Luffy mastering skills to get ready, he is consistently proclaiming to be ready to challenge everyone in his way to pirate king(no hesistation to go for Kaido since Punk Hazard, no fear challenging Fujitora, etc).
Beyond that Luffy this arc has already gone through 2 major power ups. Advanced COA and COC infusion.
I don't know for me everything points towards this leading to a triumph that will shake the world. Luffy having to run and the WG taking over Wano goes so against that I'm like 80% sure that won't happen.As for the party will still happen? In what way if they have to run away. That's not a mood to have a party in. We're talking about the author that specifically didn't kill characters in the past to make the parties at the end have the gloom hanging over them.
I will elaborate further after the chapter drops, but Luffy can defeat Kaido and have that culmination, but fail to liberate Wano. I do not think it will be the WG. As there is someone ready to pay them back from their interference in Baltigo.
I'll be elaborating on this post from 2016:
@QUOTE=K.:
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@K.:
I will elaborate further after the chapter drops, but Luffy can defeat Kaido and have that culmination, but fail to liberate Wano. I do not think it will be the WG. As there is someone ready to pay them back from their interference in Baltigo.
I'll be elaborating on this post from 2016:
I glanced over and I've seen the Blackbeard angle before and at earlier times in this arc I would have thought yeah plausible but I think we're way past that right now. Structurally the trajectory of this arc is heading towards the celebration there will be some atypical melancholy for the few main story relevant lives lost like Yasue but in general anything that would dilute the party scene with a huge asterisk I don't see it happening. Like if that really was going to be the case to me Oda wouldn't have given the promise of that party in that way and more importantly he wouldn't have centered so many character storylines around Wano restoring its freedom and loyalty to the Kozuki line. Also I feel like the fire festival was introduced to contrast later with a proper festival/party.
Blackbeard crashing the party would be a very abrupt end to things and would massively clash with any party mood. The other way of it extending the fight would be even worse cause that would mean Wano length would extend even more which seems so structurally unhealthy right now.To add I def feel like I have generally very basic and boring takes on Oda very much based on what I perceive to be his preferences over the last 1000 chapters.
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I glanced over and I've seen the Blackbeard angle before and at earlier times in this arc I would have thought yeah plausible but I think we're way past that right now. Structurally the trajectory of this arc is heading towards the celebration there will be some atypical melancholy for the few main story relevant lives lost like Yasue but in general anything that would dilute the party scene with a huge asterisk I don't see it happening. Like if that really was going to be the case to me Oda wouldn't have given the promise of that party in that way and more importantly he wouldn't have centered so many character storylines around Wano restoring its freedom and loyalty to the Kozuki line.
Blackbeard crashing the party would be a very abrupt end to things and would massively clash with any party mood. The other way of it extending the fight would be even worse cause that would mean Wano length would extend even more which seems so structurally unhealthy right now.To add I def feel like I have generally very basic and boring takes on Oda very much based on what I perceive to be his preferences over the last 1000 chapters.
I'll be adding manga images to update the original post.
But two things to highlight:
Blackbeard said they should get "it" before the WG.
The WG not the marines (contrast because the marines are generally more ignorant about the secrets of the world/ Wano's importance to the Void Century.) are heading to Wano.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Not to mention that Oda also highlighted that Momo is important moving forward, and losing Wano would be a huge bummer. But Oda can angle it as: the people of Wano is what makes Wano.
Of course, no one will be in the mood to party, until the party man himself shows up to remind Luffy that beating Kaido is a huge step towards his dream. That would be Shanks.
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It’s not time for a party yet. Several characters, as well as Wano as a whole, have yet to reconcile their history and other issues; it’ll be a while yet before harmony is established in the Country Of..
Strawhats have yet to traverse the Tower of Wano, from the bottom up.
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It's a defeat because would the island be really celebrating going from yonko tyranny into wg occupation? The type of party I strongly expect is the whole of Wano having a true fire festival with people being happy with no asterisk hanging over them.
The more I write it out the more I feel it would be immensely non Oda to go in that direction. In Luffy's own words, the party he is looking forward to have after his victory is the "biggest and best party" yet. That's just not going to work with an actual WG occupation. I don't also think that's a very coherent narrative conclusion to "opening Wano's borders". To me that phrase very much speaks to the idea of opening yourself up to the freedoms/experience the wider world can offer vs staying isolated and limited. It's in line with what Oden's original feelings were about wanting to leave Wano in the first place.
To think that the end of that is "become a puppet to the WG and help Luffy escape" …. nah I really think that's a big no go. We'll see soon.Except WG doesn't normally occupy the kingdoms that it includes. It's officially and formally a federation of peers. As long as you don't have to put up with World Noble arrogance, you're kinda fine, on paper at least. The caveat here it's Wano has to join wether it likes it or no, and surely CPs are flocking there since day 1 for shady purposes, but the fact is Momo will have to agree on annexation to actually avoid militar occupation.
If the problem is the party… it just can happen right before the arrival of the warships, or be cut short by it (while still lasting like 3 days instead of an intended 10 for example). It being extremely anticipated gives in fact a great opportunity at shock value for its interruption, and whoever the responsible is going to leave an impact lasting in the upcoming events.
New world's is supposed to be ruthless and unforgiving, time to show it. -
As far as the ending of the Wano arc, I feel its going to be similar to Enies Lobby/Water 7.
Wano will be liberated, the announcement of Kozuki Momonosuke becoming shogun will spread across the land, they'll all party, Luffy will toast to his new crew mates.
Then CP0 will try to kidnap Robin (maybe again if they try during the raid) and they will fail. The bulk of the WG ships will meet resistance with the Big Mom pirates and her departure. A WG rep will make it Wano and enter ij discussions/negotiations with Momo for Wano to enter the the WG. They'll pretend like they weren't aligned with pirates for appearances same way a bunch of Water 7 shipwright pretended like they didn't just raid Enies Lobby or helped a bunch of pirates. In order to open Wano's borders, Momo will accept Wano being a part of the WG. Luffy's not gonna even give a fuck and simply respect that Momo is acting like a man and leader doing what's right for his ppl. Momo will stretch out the negotiations a couple dats in order for the strawhats and allies to leave Wano with not much problem other than whoever is waiting for them when they begin to leave.
Won't be another round of fighting, nobody is going to try and kill Momo or control him, just a negotiation and acceptance. When the WG sends their ships it doesn't always mean they're getting ready for battle or to subjugate an entire nation.
Only loose thread for me is Kaido. Not sure he'll die. Hard to picture him running away. Imprisoning him again is a waste of time. Doubt he'll have a change of heart. If only Oda provided a cop out excuse like an Oni island and Kaido just went back there like Enel headed to the moon.
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I like the character Yamato, but I haven't really been inspired by the idea of Yamato, the crewmate. The stuff I don't like is more a critique of the storytelling than "evidence" that Yamato isn't joining and I've been convinced for some months now that Yamato will indeed join.
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I like the character Yamato, but I haven't really been inspired by the idea of Yamato, the crewmate. The stuff I don't like is more a critique of the storytelling than "evidence" that Yamato isn't joining and I've been convinced for some months now that Yamato will indeed join.
I think what's missing for quite a number of people to help motivate them into being more willing to believe Yamato could join is interacting with the other Straw Hats and having clear purpose beyond Wano that's crucial to being alongside Luffy and the others in the story. Seeing as how events have gone on recently, I think we'll be getting a huge development soon enough.
