IF that were true might as well pack it in start the new thread and crown Yamato. All of her narrative beats scream Straw hat.
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)
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Don't go sleeping on Tama. When all the Strawhats are fighting their Blackbeard counterparts, she's going to continue her Momotaro theme and summon all the animals to defeat Sanjuan Wolf.
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Oda's showing us the reality of that scenario right now: Nami and Usopp aren't capable of protecting themselves and a kid from the dangers still to come. Tama is now and always has been at the mercy of serendipity and the kindness of others.
It does strike me as similar to Luffy, who also gets by with a little help from his friends. But he generates his own luck through his strength and calmness under pressure, and no one has to hold his hand, whereas everyone needs to hold Tama's. Part of that capability of his is probably thanks to getting that wake up call as a kid. This may be Tama's own wake up call where she'll realize for herself she needs more time before sailing. So yeah, while Oda could have a little kid join for the final leg of the journey, I think he's making it clear now why he won't.
Yeah that's all well and good but like I said that excuse about not facing their fears and it not being fair to the other members doesn't really matter. A kid won't join cuz Oda doesn't want a kid to join. Plain and simple.
As you just said Oda shows us how it would be for an average character being a strawhat with Nami and Usopp with how much they're scared shitless and a lot of times they survive off of luck. They always encounter the enemy they'll just be strong enough to beat or if they face someone they can't beat Sanji or Zoro will show up to switch partners or its a real powerhouse like Big Mom pure luck will fall on their side based on a previous brief relationship that will bail them out.
Luffy had Usopp join just based on stories from Yasopp and Usopp was an okay guy when they met who was a big liar. Luffy even describes Usopp as a crew mate when he talks about his crew as we have a great navigator, great cook, and a guy who lies.
Just playing with the idea if a kid joining, the crew could basically come across somebody that's the opposite of Usopp in some ways. Honest to a fault and freakishly strong (a good deal of prominent characters in the present were super strong children). Then you got a kid who can hold his weight and isn't even fully aware of it and none of those made up concerns.
Also I really don't think Oda is going out of his way to add in reasons and examples for why a child wont join the crew. The fans have made characters like Tama and Momo candidates to be nakama when really they're just plot devices. I dont think Oda ever considered them for that for him to add in his storytelling this why this kid won't join. Its more obvious than a specific message. Plus outside of flashbacks where Tama asked Ace, Pedro asked Roger (even though Shanks and Buggy were already a part of the crew) that situation has never happened with Luffy once. You'd think if Oda wanted to send that message he'd have a few panels of Luffy saying the same thing Roger or Ace said to children who wanted to join.
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People: Oden sucks !
Also people: Yamato -who wants to be Oden- rocks !Do you think they're the same people?
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IF that were true might as well pack it in start the new thread and crown Yamato. All of her narrative beats scream Straw hat.
An uncertainty I have is if her shared dream with Oden of opening Wano’s borders will be fulfilled by the end of the arc. If so, then perhaps I should expect her to have another dream, because it seems far too late in the game to suddenly have new Straw Hats have no dreams.
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Why are people even entertaining the idea that Tama will join when one of the main reasons Luffy wants to defeat Kaido is because he wants to make Wano a place she could eat well every day?
You just said it, Luffy is taking up a part of Ace's promise to Tama, and there's more than entails to their promise than feeding the country.
@Dorobō:
Story narrative beats are lost a lot in this fandom one way or the other all the time.
I don't mean this as a dig, just an observation from many years of enjoying this series but usually staying away from the fandom.
Tbh, that's what I think too, I still find it crazy that Tama gets overlooked.
An uncertainty I have is if her shared dream with Oden of opening Wano’s borders will be fulfilled by the end of the arc. If so, then perhaps I should expect her to have another dream, because it seems far too late in the game to suddenly have new Straw Hats have no dreams.
another dream, getting rid of his nickname, stop trying to be oden, oh and suddenly he will keep quiet about what he read in the logbook in order to not spoil Luffy of the secrets and adventures… no, none of these would change will change, and they wouldnt exist as hinders in the first place if he was meant to join imo.
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I think Tama needs some training first before she could join. Learn some actual Ninjutsu from Raizo or Shinobu. I could see that happen while the Straw Hats are away and then in the final arc she shows up alongside other allies with her ship full of gifters and Ninjutsu techniques.
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Unrelated to New Nakamas but not quite, are we making anything of Brook's trousers in the 1011 color spread ? He wears a hat imprinted with 09 (that's his order of joining assuming Luffy is 01, right ?), and then his legs appear to have numbers 1 through 11 from top to bottom. Purely random ? Confirmation that there will be an 11th Straw Hat ? I mean, if you're discussing in this thread you're very likely convinced anyway that yes, there will be more Straw Hats, but isn't this the closest to a hint we've had from Oda in years ?
Speaking of New Nakamas, I'm still rooting for Yamato. Tama is sweet, but now we're nearing endgame which of these would you rather have the Marines be in awe at after Wano :
- Straw Hat Luffy took sea with a completely unknown little girl whose power lets her tame animals who aren't a threat to anyone who's anyone in the New World and also a very specific portion of Kaido's defeated crew.
- Straw Hat Luffy recruited the very daughter / son / offspring of freaking Kaido, who incidentally has powers we don't yet know about and can give daddy a run for his money with a spiked club.
So ? As for me, I can already picture Sangoku or Garp's face when they hear the news. Akainu's as well
I could definitely see Tama join the Grand Fleet, possibly with her own crew of Gifters who won't be welcome to stay in Wano anyway, and make a comeback a couple months/years from now in the final war, but she needs training first. Right now her dream should be to grow up in a Wano where she can eat her content and enjoy what's left of her childhood, not to sail the most dangerous of seas.
Not to mention, Sani's performance so far in this arc suggests that there will soon be an open spot in the Monster Trio. Go Yama ! -
suddenly he will keep quiet about what he read in the logbook in order to not spoil Luffy of the secrets and adventures…
There weren’t many opportunities where it could’ve come up, Yamato doesn’t know about Luffy’s disapproval of spoilers and most importantly, I’m still arguing that Oden never mentioned any specifics about what they learned on Laugh Tale in his journal.
The narrator boxes go back and forth between being told from Oden’s perspective and the all-knowing narrator, but Oden’s parts are supposed to be direct excerpts from his journal.
! Chapter 962, before Oden travels around Wano
!After that it goes back to a third-person narrator, telling about the remnants of the Rocks pirates, but when Roger reaches Laugh Tale, it’s clear that it’s from Oden’s perspective again, referring to Buggyjiro and Redtaro, and saying “we learned the entire truth” etc.
! Chapter 967
!It might just be my interpretation, but I still think that phrasing it “We learned what this is… and what that is...” instead of “We learned that this is... and that is...” implies that there are no more details that were left out, at the very least in this specific section. Oden might have mentioned more in other sections of his journal but we have no evidence of that (and neither of the opposite). But seeing how no other Roger pirate has gone around spreading this information, I’d argue that the last stonemason of the clan who was responsible for the creation of the Poneglyphs knows better than to leave highly sensitive information in a plain journal for anyone to find, regardless of how irresponsible he might be in other aspects of life.
Even from a narrative perspective it wouldn’t make sense to me that any information about Laugh Tale, the Void Century, the Will of D. etc. can just be found in Oden’s journal. No matter if Yamato joins or not, if he truly knows about all that stuff it would diminish the accomplishment of reaching Laugh Tale. It’s a feat that in the last 800 years only a handful of people were able to do, to me it feels like you have to be able to make your way there in order to rightfully learn about everything.
Also, now that the journal is in Momonosuke’s hands, he would also learn about everything and nothing is stopping him from sharing that information as well. Just imagine, the Straw Hats make it to Laugh Tale, find out about the conflict 800 years ago, decide to do something about it and go back to Wano which is definitely going to play an important part. They explain the whole situation and Momo, Yamato and whoever else they shared the information with just goes “Oh, yeah, we already read about that”?I don’t think Oda would allow even the possiblity.
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long post
I agree with that, regarding laugh tale and one piece itself, it's just the thought of having Yamato constantly referring to things he read in Oden's logbook as they're happening in real time is jarring, assuming, rightly so, that the trip to find laugh tale is a spectacle itself.
Yamato also knows that Momo is a key to the dawn, how would he know? most likely from oden logbook again, so it definitely has some more secrets in it. -
I agree with that, regarding laugh tale and one piece itself, it's just the thought of having Yamato constantly referring to things he read in Oden's logbook as they're happening in real time is jarring, assuming, rightly so, that the trip to find laugh tale is a spectacle itself.
That assumes that Yamato would constantly go “I’ve read about that in Oden’s journal” which is doubtful to me. He also didn’t go “I’ve read about Franky in the newspaper” but rather “I’ve never seen anyone like him in my life” so his focus seems more on the actual thing in front of him rather than if he has read about it before. Never mind that Robin also is a walking info repository which hasn’t stopped her from joining.
Yamato also knows that Momo is a key to the dawn, how would he know? most likely from oden logbook again, so it definitely has some more secrets in it.
I would guess that it pertains to opening Wano’s borders in order to be able to bring the Dawn. Momonosuke as the rightful heir to Wano seems like an obvious key player for that.
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Do you think they're the same people?
Well, I didn't fully investigate. But when you look at the threads about Oden's flashback and the ones in which Yamato appears. You can notice a trend, people loathe Oden and love Yamato.
Now, is it contradictory ? when you think about it, not really. People probably have their reasons. Like, chara-design and all, I don't know tbh.
Anyway, I thought it was interesting to bring this up though -
Well, I didn't fully investigate. But when you look at the threads about Oden's flashback and the ones in which Yamato appears. You can notice a trend, people loathe Oden and love Yamato.
Now, is it contradictory ? when you think about it, not really. People probably have their reasons. Like, chara-design and all, I don't know tbh.
Anyway, I thought it was interesting to bring this up thoughOden is pretty much the textbook definition of a Mary Sue. People in-story just love everything he does for some reason and whatever flaws he has are portrayed as nothing important or worth looking into.
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All SHs have already met and encountered BM. It's as if they're meant to meet to have some build up. I believe the continuation of the next arc will heavily related to BM.
So imo the next SH should encounter BM too. Tama already has some relationship with olin. Will yamato or carrot have direct encounter with BM too? What you guys think?
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All SHs have already met and encountered BM. It's as if they're meant to meet to have some build up. I believe the continuation of the next arc will heavily related to BM.
So imo the next SH should encounter BM too. Tama already has some relationship with olin. Will yamato or carrot have direct encounter with BM too? What you guys think?
I would say another example of fans looking at shit way to deeply, Big Mom will be done here as there not much point to having her here unless it happens.
Next is Elba and will finish up Big Moms story with it but you don’t need her there.
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I would say another example of fans looking at shit way to deeply, Big Mom will be done here as there not much point to having her here unless it happens.
Next is Elba and will finish up Big Moms story with it but you don’t need her there.
Nah. BM is different than kaido. SHs did not face kaido directly.
BM is the yonko that SHs will save. I also believe next arc will be elbaf but with linlin as a companion not BM ._.
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Nah. BM is different than kaido. SHs did not face kaido directly.
BM is the yonko that SHs will save. I also believe next arc will be elbaf but with linlin as a companion not BM ._.
The Yonkos are going down there is no saving them or one.
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The Yonkos are going down there is no saving them or one.
Sorry I think i did not make myself clear. I agree that BM is beaten this arc. But later she will be redeemed. We may get tama defending her tho
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Sorry I think i did not make myself clear. I agree that BM is beaten this arc. But later she will be redeemed. We may get tama defending her tho
Big Mom is not being redeemed go back and read WCI
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You just said it, Luffy is taking up a part of Ace's promise to Tama, and there's more than entails to their promise than feeding the country.
Tbh, that's what I think too, I still find it crazy that Tama gets overlooked.
Ace told Tama she had to grow up. That was 2 years ago. Why would Luffy think she's old enough now?
Luffy even asked Carrot if she could fend for herself when she snuck aboard.
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I agree with that, regarding laugh tale and one piece itself, it's just the thought of having Yamato constantly referring to things he read in Oden's logbook as they're happening in real time is jarring, assuming, rightly so, that the trip to find laugh tale is a spectacle itself.
Yamato also knows that Momo is a key to the dawn, how would he know? most likely from oden logbook again, so it definitely has some more secrets in it.Even then, while Oden could read and write the language, he simply wasn’t scholarly enough like the people at Ohara to fully understand the Government’s dirty laundry and other secrets at Laugh Tale, so anything he wrote down may possibly be considerably incorrect due to that lack of scholarly understanding.
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How long do you think til we get to see Yamato’s devil fruit?
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How long do you think til we get to see Yamato’s devil fruit?
Yeah, about that…
Yesterday they found new dinosaur species from Japan. Too bad it's a herbivore tho :ninja:
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How long do you think til we get to see Yamato’s devil fruit?
Not till he is up there with Luffy
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You just said it, Luffy is taking up a part of Ace's promise to Tama, and there's more than entails to their promise than feeding the country.
But if you're going by then wouldn't it further support that she isn't joining? Ace refused to let her join because she was too young. He only agreed that she could join his crew once she is older and becomes a Kunoichi, which hasn't happened yet.
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I suppose Chapter 983 could be set up for Yamato to become another combatant for Luffy, after he was struggling a bit in trying to defeat Page and Ulti and him risking using up too much energy too quickly just to defeat them, and that Zoro and the others couldn’t be there to back him up.
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Not till he is up there with Luffy
What’s he gonna do up there though? Luffy said he wants to fight Kaido mano a mano
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What’s he gonna do up there though? Luffy said he wants to fight Kaido mano a mano
Luffy can say a lot of things but you are gonna have son confront Father, Luffy could use help Oda can create whatever scenario for it to happen we already know Yamato wants to head up.
Yamato unshackled and full Zoan powers will be shown.
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Jinbei will be the last to join.
I think we could have some Vivi or carrot or momo situations where they ride with the crew for a few arcs.
But I don't see anyone else joining the crew, Luffy always said he wanted a crew of 10 people.
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Jinbei will be the last to join.
I think we could have some Vivi or carrot or momo situations where they ride with the crew for a few arcs.
But I don't see anyone else joining the crew, Luffy always said he wanted a crew of 10 people.
Jinbe makes it 9 Luffy doesn’t count himself
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Jinbei will be the last to join.
I think we could have some Vivi or carrot or momo situations where they ride with the crew for a few arcs.
But I don't see anyone else joining the crew, Luffy always said he wanted a crew of 10 people.
He’s actually a little vague, because he says “about 10 men” (some translations saying “at least 10 people”), so it could potentially be 12 or 13 as a loose number to go on. Not that he can’t change his mind on this though, because it’s not like he signed a contract stating that he can’t have more than 10.
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He’s actually a little vague, because he says “about 10 men” (some translations saying “at least 10 people”), so it could potentially be 12 or 13 as a loose number to go on. Not that he can’t change his mind on this though, because it’s not like he signed a contract stating that he can’t have more than 10.
[qimg]https://i.ibb.co/VvGLXC1/90-C2-BA0-E-2-FBF-4-B3-E-94-CA-D2-F5-EA8-B8568.jpg[/qimg]
One Piece Magazine recently stated he did mean 10 people.
Only one to go.
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He’s actually a little vague, because he says “about 10 men” (some translations saying “at least 10 people”), so it could potentially be 12 or 13 as a loose number to go on. Not that he can’t change his mind on this though, because it’s not like he signed a contract stating that he can’t have more than 10.
https://i.ibb.co/VvGLXC1/90-C2-BA0-E-2-FBF-4-B3-E-94-CA-D2-F5-EA8-B8568.jpg
You can blame this one on the translation. He clearly states 10人はほしいなァ! in Japanese which translates to "I want ten people!". If he wanted to say "about 10 people" he'd have said something along the lines of 10人くれい/ぐらいほしい! There's other words to express it should be approximately 10 but I'm not sure if they be used when talking about people.
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I think Oda probably imagined 10 when he wrote chapter 1; But I also think he might be willing to add to that number. The biggest one to me is, I don't think Vivi was planned at that point, yet she's a Straw Hat. I also don't get the sense that either Carrot or Yamato was planned at the start of the series.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I think Oda probably imagined 10 when he wrote chapter 1; But I also think he might be willing to add to that number. The biggest one to me is, I don't think Vivi was planned at that point, yet she's a Straw Hat. I also don't get the sense that either Carrot or Yamato was planned at the start of the series.
I don't think Vivi counts as a real crewmate, thought. Yes, she's officially nakama, but I feel she's a special case, and more special cases are possible. But they are not permanent additions to the main cast.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I think Oda probably imagined 10 when he wrote chapter 1; But I also think he might be willing to add to that number. The biggest one to me is, I don't think Vivi was planned at that point, yet she's a Straw Hat. I also don't get the sense that either Carrot or Yamato was planned at the start of the series.
Of course, Oda is allowed to change his mind at any time, regardless of what magazines or otherwise have said.
That being said, I had to presume he had the idea for at least 10 crew mates back in 1995, when he was drawing up concept sketches like this one, which appears to have some erased marks like in between Sanji and Chopper.
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Of course, Oda is allowed to change his mind at any time, regardless of what magazines or otherwise have said.
That being said, I had to presume he had the idea for at least 10 crew mates back in 1995, when he was drawing up concept sketches like this one, which appears to have some erased marks like in between Sanji and Chopper.
https://i.ibb.co/HnzFKQv/8227-BEFF-9984-4960-936-C-E664-B978389-C.webp
There's nothing there though, otherwise they would get blocked by Sanji's smoke.
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Of course, Oda is allowed to change his mind at any time, regardless of what magazines or otherwise have said.
That being said, I had to presume he had the idea for at least 10 crew mates back in 1995, when he was drawing up concept sketches like this one, which appears to have some erased marks like in between Sanji and Chopper.
[qimg]https://i.ibb.co/HnzFKQv/8227-BEFF-9984-4960-936-C-E664-B978389-C.webp[/qimg]
I don't think there's meant to be anyone else in that picture.
But the other one that Oda made just as the series was beginning (can someone post it?) does have enough space for Jinbe and one more character in it, and the uneven way the characters are posing is a big sign that someone was erased from it. Also, it wasn't updated in the magazine like the one you linked, which may be because it would reveal too much.
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which appears to have some erased marks like in between Sanji and Chopper.
What your seeing is the scan being cleaned badly. The one I posted below its clear that the databooks are printed on thinner paper and the art from one side bleeds to the other if you aren't careful. While the Jibe erasure marks are pretty obvious in the original image.
Notably the inset pic from later in production also clearly has Jinbe edited out, but even then its weird positioning unless Jinbe is just suuuuper wide. But even as wide as Jinbe is it's not a super organic layout, so there's maybe room for one more? (Also, given that there's six character's on Luffy's right, and only three on his left after you add Jinbe, its possible that sketch was extra cropped and there's more space to the side of Sanji.
Which as Shift is quick to note, the reason for leaving out an extra character even at that detail level is if they have a super distinguishing feature like rabbit ears or horns, and would be a dead give away even like that.
Of note, that second image was definitely from later in development since it had Robin, Franky closer to what we know, and Chopper was short by then.
Greg has reported that Oda has said that one Wano spread was indeed the full crew as he imagined it at the start though. So it begs the question of how far in was that second iamge? Six months before? A year in? When is the threshold for whenever that picture was done, and "the crew as he envisioned it at the start"? And how much does it really matter given he's had 23 years to sit on it and keep a slot open for future ideas?
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Proto-Chopper was tall with horns.
I guess that settles it, Yamato it is.
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@Dorobō:
Proto-Chopper was tall with horns.
I guess that settles it, Yamato it is.
In one of his earliest designs, Chopper actually resembled Chouchou, appearing to be a grumpier, smoker sort of character.
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when it comes to the old sketches, again, Tama is the one that makes the most sense, with pirate apprentice position being mentioned in vol 2, and Ace's strawhat flashback in marineford would be a future reference to Tama.
Not only that though… in the second pic there is a height chart, so just for balance's sake it would fit in with another shorter member. -
Of note, that second image was definitely from later in development since it had Robin, Franky closer to what we know, and Chopper was short by then.
Early on, he also had the idea of Brook joining before Franky, but presumably couldn’t figure out as to how to get this scenario to convincingly work for the longest time after having said thought, as much as he probably wanted Brook to be present for the Going Merry’s funeral.
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Oh, that's the image I was talking about!
The proto-Franky clealy has a part of his right arm erased, and there's this weird blank space behind Sanji/Zoro/Luffy where there could be at least two characters behind them. One of those would be proto-Jinbe, of course, but there was probably a second tall character there as well.
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Interestingly, Zoro isn’t categorized as “swordsman,” but “fighter,” which makes me wonder if he’ll be the only crew mate to have such a label.
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Interestingly, Zoro isn’t categorized as “swordsman,” but “fighter,” which makes me wonder if he’ll be the only crew mate to have such a label.
https://i.ibb.co/cyz0c8T/2-FC92886-89-F9-46-FD-BE35-4-EB968-AD5-D43.jpg
That's just an alternate name for combatant.
That profession has been there since Gin, I think.
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That's just an alternate name for combatant.
That profession has been there since Gin, I think.
And as much Luffy tends to focus on non-fighting roles like musician, I presume even he still recognizes the value of having as much firepower as possible in also having strong fighters on a Pirate King’s crew, because of what he said back in Chapter 6:
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Yeah. People tend to assign vice-captain to Zoro, but I don't think that's ever been mentioned in official materials that just label his position as more of just a fighter.
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I always think of Zoro as the first mate but I guess he’s never been called that