Japan doesn't really have strong anti-pedo laws. They're a very recent thing.
Conversely, their anti-drug laws are hyper-draconic.
Japan doesn't really have strong anti-pedo laws. They're a very recent thing.
Conversely, their anti-drug laws are hyper-draconic.
Japan doesn't really have strong anti-pedo laws. They're a very recent thing.
yeah seems the maximum sentence for possession is just a year in prison.
Didn't toriko mangaka do something similar years ago and oda supported him too?
The known knowns are:
Trigger warning of the know pedo or pedo adjacent enough not to matter
! Watsuki had underage porn, multiple dvds of them, I was under the impression that it was way younger than 18, but to preserve my temper I didn’t research beyond this. This was around five years ago, or else I’d have let my kenshin volumes to rot or burn back home. Light sentence, working again.
! Shimabukuro, Toriko’s author hired underaged prostitutes, more than once, knowingly and didn’t deny it once caught. Reports vary about his sentence, happened around the 2000, his series back then was canceled, got back to business with Toriko. Sentence was very light.
! Recently I don’t know his name, but canceled series Act Age writer in the start of the pandemic was gropping underage girls on the streets, making use of the masks and his bike to get away with it. Caught and confessed. His co author the artist of Act age either decided or supported shueisha in the cancellation of the series. Sentence unknown.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I don’t know how factual it is, but I remember reading something about Japan not making apologies over their WWII crimes with a flimsy argument like they already did it, or that they won’t disturb the remains of their war criminals over that, and game studios or anime studios being criticized over choosing to go to the temples where these war criminals remains still are, even if these are the closest and where the remains of many other peoples are as well.
This is about old things that I’ve read, I’d recommend not trusting me and searching for yourself.
The known knowns are:
Trigger warning of the know pedo or pedo adjacent enough not to matter
! Watsuki had underage porn, multiple dvds of them, I was under the impression that it was way younger than 18, but to preserve my temper I didn’t research beyond this. This was around five years ago, or else I’d have let my kenshin volumes to rot or burn back home. Light sentence, working again.
! Shimabukuro, Toriko’s author hired underaged prostitutes, more than once, knowingly and didn’t deny it once caught. Reports vary about his sentence, happened around the 2000, his series back then was canceled, got back to business with Toriko. Sentence was very light.
! Recently I don’t know his name, but canceled series Act Age writer in the start of the pandemic was gropping underage girls on the streets, making use of the masks and his bike to get away with it. Caught and confessed. His co author the artist of Act age either decided or supported shueisha in the cancellation of the series. Sentence unknown.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I don’t know how factual it is, but I remember reading something about Japan not making apologies over their WWII crimes with a flimsy argument like they already did it, or that they won’t disturb the remains of their war criminals over that, and game studios or anime studios being criticized over choosing to go to the temples where these war criminals remains still are, even if these are the closest and where the remains of many other peoples are as well.
This is about old things that I’ve read, I’d recommend not trusting me and searching for yourself.
Congress passed a resolution in regards to comfort women that asks the Japanese government to apologize for using girls and women as such, as far as i know they never did.
japan was ruled by literal class A war criminals during the 50s and 60s, nationalism in japan isn't rising it's probably at an all time low. this video is very misleading notice how they're just showing fringe weirdos, and don't bring up any concrete data to back up their claims.
japan was literally ruled by class A war criminals during the 50s and 60s, nationalism in japan isn't rising it's probably at an all time low. this video is very misleading notice how they're just showing fringe weirdos, and don't bring up any concrete data to back up their claims.
Shinzo Abe is that war criminal´s grandson.
It always starts with fringe weirdos, as it did in Germany twice now, the fringe weirdos are now not so fringe anymore and now hold more than 12% of Parliament and are 3rd biggest party.
Shinzo Abe is that war criminal´s grandson.
It always starts with fringe weirdos, as it did in Germany twice now, the fringe weirdos are now not so fringe anymore and now hold more than 12% of Parliament and are 3rd biggest party.
i know japan is still a fairly chauvinistic society(like most societies tbh), my point is that it's not currently undergoing a change from a previous state of lower nationalism to a state of higher nationalism, and actually looking at polls and the policies of the government concerning things like immigration shows us the opposite.
and the "rise" of the afd in germany is highly exaggerated they're not remotely close to actually governing.
Wonder what the closest cultural translation for this would be?
Subway rehiring Jared? A Harvey Weinstein/Bill Cosby memorial wall?
The Roast of Harvey Winstein hosted by Bill Cosby, since there are more people congratulating Watsuki's career.
Join us now as we take a look back at the illustrious career of noted pedophile Watsuki. No but in all seriousness this is probably one of the harder cases of culture shock i have experienced, out of all things in the world i had honestly thought that there was a global common ground on the subject of child molestation. But you learn something new every day i suppose
You'd be surprised what homophobia passes for humor in mainstream latam, or how much the average spaniard curses like a sailor on stream, but that is comparing pears to child pornography.
Join us now as we take a look back at the illustrious career of noted pedophile Watsuki. No but in all seriousness this is probably one of the harder cases of culture shock i have experienced, out of all things in the world i had honestly thought that there was a global common ground on the subject of child molestation. But you learn something new every day i suppose
Well, it is crazy that, as a girl, you can marry with 16 (at least with parental consent) but can´t drink a beer or smoke until 20.
On the topic of drinking, have you watched the Danish movie "Another Round"?
That was another culture shock, the Danish drinking culture.
Why is oda surrounded by these kind of people. From his editor Naito, to his friend mangakas Watsuki and Mitsutoshi.
@uniaka:
Why is oda surrounded by these kind of people. From his editor Naito, to his friend mangakas Watsuki and Mitsutoshi.
Because people(ALL OF EM) are weird and strange. Thats how people operate. You look hard enough into anyone's life and you are going to find something you really don't like. Not me however. I look in the mirror and I think wow, what a wonderfully normal, honest, hard working, funny and handsome man. And the most modest individual you could ever lay your eyes on.
@uniaka:
Why is oda surrounded by these kind of people. From his editor Naito, to his friend mangakas Watsuki and Mitsutoshi.
Because they happen to work at the same place?
Join us now as we take a look back at the illustrious career of noted pedophile Watsuki. No but in all seriousness this is probably one of the harder cases of culture shock i have experienced, out of all things in the world i had honestly thought that there was a global common ground on the subject of child molestation. But you learn something new every day i suppose
I think it is less of a cultural shock to the Japanese.For instance if you look at the amount of sexual teasing that goes on in shounen mangas, specially in high school stories, you can guess some sorts of acceptance among populace about 'underage' sexual desires. It is by no means a excuse, but if I have to rationalise the situation, I would say many people there consider teenagers as sexually independent. So perhaps if it doesn't involve outright children, people don't think about it much.
I hope our Japanese members or someone living in Japan for a long time can shed light on it.
The other thing, how this is received over there? These slap in the wrist sentences feel like enough justice?
If there wasn’t the other three I’d be inclined to believe that the editor one was a honest mistake, as who doesn’t clean their history or uses incognito mode for their smut, but with the other 3?
I was always surprised by Japan leniency on CP, "amazing personality"…
I think in some cases it's kinda like having the world's sweetest grandma who takes care of kittens,
donates to charities, spoils her grandkids, bakes cookies, sings to birds, etc
But then there was that one time you heard her say she thinks gay people are wicked and wrong,
and you heard one or two racist remarks come out of her mouth.
But 99% of the vibe you get from her is still "my awesome sweet Grandma", and you tend to look past the black marks out of goodwill.
Maybe it's the same for their respected co-worker and senpai?
Maybe despite the terrible crime he was convicted of, they would still rather not forget all of the things they considered good about him?
Kind of the opposite stance of cancelling someone, where the terrible thing automatically invalidates everything else.
This is one of those things where they decided that nothing is invalidated, and that the things they praise him for stand on their own.
Down that avenue, it's a land of preference and opinion I guess.
When a lot of Shueisha mangakas make this homage to Watsuki, it's because they're being told to do so by Shueisha, and some of them just don't care.
Oda in particular has a relationship with Watsuki, so it's a different story. If he's right or wrong, it's your call.
That in itself would be an amazing case of culture shock. A major corporation putting their hand behind a registered child sex offender and having all their other brand names join in promoting him would have been business suicide in the west.
I wonder if Tatsuya Matsuki (Act-Age manga writer) will come back to Jump,
who got busted last year due to touching the breasts of middle school girl and running away by bicycle.
Oda once said he will change OP story if it coincides with fan theories. But according to TV show today,
Oda will never change his plan about "final chapter" even if a fan theory hits the nail on the head.
Oda said in 1999 that he had already decided the final panel and chapter.
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Just to be clear since I'm not all the way up to date, Watsuki was arrested over having child porn on his computer right? Like videos and images not rape of a minor or child molestation?
Cuz some of the posts I'm reading are giving off the impression dude is a full blown rapist and pedophile especially with the comparisons to known American rapists.
I don't keep up with this particular news (comic book writers being sick rapists and/or pedophiles) so I wasn't clear if Watsuki was arrested again or convicted.
As for Oda, shit is different over there. No brainer for me to cut off somebody that gets arrested for that especially if they're not family.
Only pornographic materials.
@Zik:
Just to be clear since I'm not all the way up to date, Watsuki was arrested over having child porn on his computer right? Like videos and images not rape of a minor or child molestation?
Cuz some of the posts I'm reading are giving off the impression dude is a full blown rapist and pedophile especially with the comparisons to known American rapists.
I don't keep up with this particular news (comic book writers being sick rapists and/or pedophiles) so I wasn't clear if Watsuki was arrested again or convicted.
As for Oda, shit is different over there. No brainer for me to cut off somebody that gets arrested for that especially if they're not family.
At the time, he was taken in because the authorities had found a big pile (that's how it was decribed in the media) of dvd containing child pornography as result of an ongoing investigation.
I got the impression the police was also investigating wether Watasuki had commited any other related crime, other than supporting such "industry", but since he just got a slap on the wrist I'd guess they found nothing.
Btw, the slap on the wrist was a fine of about 2000 dollars, iirc.
Using some math based on the rates mentioned in Bakuman, which deals with Shonen Jump in particular, that should be about what he earned from SJ each week a chapter of Rurouni Kenshin was published. Douzens of volumes spanning years of chapters, an anime, live action films, all the fucking merchandise, and the fine he gets amounts to one week of work in the 90's.
Ffs, that doesn't even cover the help for a single child presented on those dvds. I'd say that the japanese system for these situations is broken but honestly it feels like they never even put such system in place, they just wrote some vague rules because the other countries were doing it too.
At the time, he was taken in because the authorities had found a big pile (that's how it was decribed in the media) of dvd containing child pornography as result of an ongoing investigation.
I got the impression the police was also investigating wether Watasuki had commited any other related crime, other than supporting such "industry", but since he just got a slap on the wrist I'd guess they found nothing.Btw, the slap on the wrist was a fine of about 2000 dollars, iirc.
Using some math based on the rates mentioned in Bakuman, which deals with Shonen Jump in particular, that should be about what he earned from SJ each week a chapter of Rurouni Kenshin was published. Douzens of volumes spanning years of chapters, an anime, live action films, all the fucking merchandise, and the fine he gets amounts to one week of work in the 90's.
Ffs, that doesn't even cover the help for a single child presented on those dvds. I'd say that the japanese system for these situations is broken but honestly it feels like they never even put such system in place, they just wrote some vague rules because the other countries were doing it too.
Wow. I heard about the fine, but it was never put in perspective for me exactly how much of a slap on the wrist it was. Feels pretty disgusting, but I would be curious to know if any reasoning was ever made public about why it was such a lenient ruling. I think I know the answer, but it's nice to hope there's some kind of extenuating circumstance that those of us watching in horror from a distance aren't privy to.
It's definitely the biggest strike I can think of against Oda that he hasn't cut off contact and support to this kind of creep yet. To an extent, I can understand separating art from the artist. Who among us doesn't have a formative work made by someone we can no longer respect? But Oda hasn't even done that much. Do Japanese fans talk about this kind of thing the same way western fans do?
Wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons for the sales going down was Oda supporting that creep.
At the time, he was taken in because the authorities had found a big pile (that's how it was decribed in the media) of dvd containing child pornography as result of an ongoing investigation.
I got the impression the police was also investigating wether Watasuki had commited any other related crime, other than supporting such "industry", but since he just got a slap on the wrist I'd guess they found nothing.Btw, the slap on the wrist was a fine of about 2000 dollars, iirc.
Using some math based on the rates mentioned in Bakuman, which deals with Shonen Jump in particular, that should be about what he earned from SJ each week a chapter of Rurouni Kenshin was published. Douzens of volumes spanning years of chapters, an anime, live action films, all the fucking merchandise, and the fine he gets amounts to one week of work in the 90's.
Ffs, that doesn't even cover the help for a single child presented on those dvds. I'd say that the japanese system for these situations is broken but honestly it feels like they never even put such system in place, they just wrote some vague rules because the other countries were doing it too.
Ok just wanted to be clear on the crime he committed.
As for the punishment/penalty that's on Japan. Some countries have extremely lax and lenient punishments on certain crimes some have insanely harsh and draconian punishments for certain crimes. I'm not about to make up what I think is an appropriate punishment for owning/watching child pornography.
Wow. I heard about the fine, but it was never put in perspective for me exactly how much of a slap on the wrist it was. Feels pretty disgusting, but I would be curious to know if any reasoning was ever made public about why it was such a lenient ruling. I think I know the answer, but it's nice to hope there's some kind of extenuating circumstance that those of us watching in horror from a distance aren't privy to.
It's definitely the biggest strike I can think of against Oda that he hasn't cut off contact and support to this kind of creep yet. To an extent, I can understand separating art from the artist. Who among us doesn't have a formative work made by someone we can no longer respect? But Oda hasn't even done that much. Do Japanese fans talk about this kind of thing the same way western fans do?
Not defending Watsuki's actions. I think it's gross. What I think is important to remember is the 'material' Watsuki owned only even became illegal in Japan two years prior to his arrest. Which doesn't make it okay morally, but does communicate just how lax the laws were and how lenient the attitudes were in Japan toward nude pictures of underage girls.
I'm not saying this excuses Watsuki's actions at all, but undoubtedly a culture where that isn't even seriously frowned upon helps to shape a person who doesn't have moral qualms about owning such material.
The sentencing from what I read is more or less standard for Watsuki's crime. If the legal system in Japan doesn't take the crime seriously, it's hard to say Oda should have responded according to western cultural norms. And as I say because I want to be clear, I'm not at all trying to excuse Watsuki morally. I think it's objectionably terrible. But it's more than an individual person here - it's the whole culture in which Watsuki and Oda grew up. People shape culture as much as they are shaped by it - and while I don't think this stuff at all falls under moral relativism, I think it's very clear why Oda wouldn't cut ties with Watsuki. It's simply not expected of him and aside from a few western fans who even remember Watsuki's crime, I doubt he has heard any backlash.
Oda probably feels like he owes a lot to Watsuki as he was actually an assistant on Rurouni Kenshin. There's even a Straw Hat Pirates Jolly Roger in one of the later volumes of RuroKen.
I think the biggest issue is the failure of the criminal justice system here. It's not about appropriately punishing Watsuki - it's about trying to reform and correct the behavior, stopping it from happening again. A slap on the wrist fine isn't going to make Watsuki seriously think about the harmful impact of the material in his possession and to change. But all of this is downstream from cultural attitudes.
Personally, I was a fan of Rurouni Kenshin from when it first aired on Toonami, before I even knew about Watsuki. I don't know if I should feel differently, but my enjoyment for the series hasn't diminished. I know not everyone can separate art from artist and it's not something I was intentionally trying to do. I'm not really trying to justify or rationalize - I just don't think about Watsuki when I think about Kenshin. I'm not really sure.
Makes you wonder where their line for when to care is? If he had done this toward any of their daughters or sons would that have crossed a line? Or is that still oh you rascal you territory. I mean stockpiling an illegal blockbuster equvilent at home is apparently to Japan like getting a speeding ticket.
Makes you wonder where their line for when to care is? If he had done this toward any of their daughters or sons would that have crossed a line? Or is that still oh you rascal you territory. I mean stockpiling an illegal blockbuster equvilent at home is apparently to Japan like getting a speeding ticket.
Inter-racial porn? :ninja:
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Not defending Watsuki's actions. I think it's gross. What I think is important to remember is the 'material' Watsuki owned only even became illegal in Japan two years prior to his arrest. Which doesn't make it okay morally, but does communicate just how lax the laws were and how lenient the attitudes were in Japan toward nude pictures of underage girls.
I'm not saying this excuses Watsuki's actions at all, but undoubtedly a culture where that isn't even seriously frowned upon helps to shape a person who doesn't have moral qualms about owning such material.
The sentencing from what I read is more or less standard for Watsuki's crime. If the legal system in Japan doesn't take the crime seriously, it's hard to say Oda should have responded according to western cultural norms. And as I say because I want to be clear, I'm not at all trying to excuse Watsuki morally. I think it's objectionably terrible. But it's more than an individual person here - it's the whole culture in which Watsuki and Oda grew up. People shape culture as much as they are shaped by it - and while I don't think this stuff at all falls under moral relativism, I think it's very clear why Oda wouldn't cut ties with Watsuki. It's simply not expected of him and aside from a few western fans who even remember Watsuki's crime, I doubt he has heard any backlash.
Oda probably feels like he owes a lot to Watsuki as he was actually an assistant on Rurouni Kenshin. There's even a Straw Hat Pirates Jolly Roger in one of the later volumes of RuroKen.
I think the biggest issue is the failure of the criminal justice system here. It's not about appropriately punishing Watsuki - it's about trying to reform and correct the behavior, stopping it from happening again. A slap on the wrist fine isn't going to make Watsuki seriously think about the harmful impact of the material in his possession and to change. But all of this is downstream from cultural attitudes.
Personally, I was a fan of Rurouni Kenshin from when it first aired on Toonami, before I even knew about Watsuki. I don't know if I should feel differently, but my enjoyment for the series hasn't diminished. I know not everyone can separate art from artist and it's not something I was intentionally trying to do. I'm not really trying to justify or rationalize - I just don't think about Watsuki when I think about Kenshin. I'm not really sure.
Jesus, only two years before before the arrest? That would be what, 2015? I actually had no idea Japan was so far behind on the issue. Maybe I shouldn't be shocked considering some of the things I know get produced and some of the stuff I actually saw when I visited the country, but that really is a surprise. I've never read or watched Rurouni Kenshin, so I didn't have much reason to pay attention to the arrest and any discourse around it when it first happened, so a lot of this is news to me.
I agree with everything you said about the cultural divide and cultural influences at play (and that the justice system should have taken more leadership in inflicting an appropriate punishment). It's disappointing that Oda hasn't been able to rise above the dominant voices of his culture, but at the same time, if going against things people have told you your whole life are okay was easy, a lot of cultures around the world would have changed a long time ago. I still want to see better things happening, but I understand why they might be a long time coming. While there are definitely unforgivable objective moral wrongs out there, context and opportunities to learn better and make changes are still important factors in making moral judgements of a person.
Art/artist separation can be tough. I've never had to try and mentally impose it for anything as bad as pedophilia, but I feel for anyone struggling with their feelings toward Watsuki and his works. Just what we've seen here with Oda feels like enough of a slap in the face.
@Johnny:
Inter-racial porn? :ninja:
16 characters of mild drug use.
Any Asian celebrity that gets caught with drugs instantly gets their career ruined. It all stems from the Opium Wars.
In the west, we've longed accepted that's how they make good art to begin with.
Any Asian celebrity that gets caught with drugs instantly gets their career ruined. It all stems from the Opium Wars.
In the west, we've longed accepted that's how they make good art to begin with.
How is Japan related to the Opium Wars?
How is Japan related to the Opium Wars?
Japan and China are intrinsically related in terms of culture, kinda like the US and the UK (US kids have to learn UK history after all, since it's directly relevant to the founding of the US). Or do you think it's a coincidence that both China and Japan use both symbol-based writing, or have similar tastes of food or architecture? China has always been influential amongst Asian countries throughout its history. No doubt Japanese students have to learn about those major Asian events.
Opium was also very popular in Southeast Asia, so it would be naive to think Japan was distanced from the stuff that was spreading all throughout Asia.
(Incidentally, lots of Southeast Asian countries have capital punishments for drug smuggling, such as Indonesia).
Japan and China are intrinsically related in terms of culture, kinda like the US and the UK (US kids have to learn UK history after all, since it's directly relevant to the founding of the US). Or do you think it's a coincidence that both China and Japan use both symbol-based writing, or have similar tastes of food or architecture? China has always been influential amongst Asian countries throughout its history. No doubt Japanese students have to learn about those major Asian events.
Opium was also very popular in Southeast Asia, so it would be naive to think Japan was distanced from the stuff that was spreading all throughout Asia.
(Incidentally, lots of Southeast Asian countries have capital punishments for drug smuggling, such as Indonesia).
Yeah, up to a certain point, then the two cultures deviated. Just comes from Japan adopting a lot of cultural aspects from China (if you wanna call it that) but it developed in a different direction.
Opium Wars are relatively recent (First one 1840s or so, Second one shortly after Japan was forcefully opened by the Americans).
The only major relation Japan has to Opium is them trading with it in Taiwan after annexing it for example, it did not come over to the island.
And obviously they held a negative opinion considering what it did to the Chinese people, nevertheless it does not have much to do with the current negative light of any drug, basically putting them all in the same category.
From what i read, the most relevant root of their treatment of drugs is a law and propaganda done by the US in 1948 during the occupation.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/japan-place-with-strangest-drug-debate-in-world/
On the topic of drinking, have you watched the Danish movie "Another Round"?
That was another culture shock, the Danish drinking culture.
Man i forgot about this. Haven't seen it, but i wouldn't have thought the Danes drank that much more than the Germans? Is it the amount or the lack of care about people being drunk thats the big shocker?
Man i forgot about this. Haven't seen it, but i wouldn't have thought the Danes drank that much more than the Germans? Is it the amount or the lack of care about people being drunk thats the big shocker?
Its not so much the amount but the acceptance, especially for teens. Here that has always been treated like a problem.
Yeah they are pretty casual about it. Swedes drink alot too, but mostly on the weekends and there is something of a stigma for drinking on a weekday. We're a bit too repressed to be drinking like the Danes. Might be a bit closer to the Germans on that one.
You guys should meet the koreans
You guys should meet the koreans
I sure hope you mean they drink alot and not that they are a nation of Watsukis
I sure hope you mean they drink alot and not that they are a nation of Watsukis
The biggest drinkers in the world!
If they're also a nations of Watsukis, I don't know.
Yeah they are pretty casual about it. Swedes drink alot too, but mostly on the weekends and there is something of a stigma for drinking on a weekday. We're a bit too repressed to be drinking like the Danes. Might be a bit closer to the Germans on that one.
Don´t wanna spoil the movie but it features a particularly game that is pretty fucked up, yet was treated as common.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You guys should meet the koreans
Yeah i know, but they still are behind the Russian countries, but we just expect it for Russians, so i guess not shocking, and the Russian countries are followed by the German countries (Austria, Switzerland, Germany).
The drinking culture in Korea, especially in regards to your professional life, is pretty disgusting though, gotta say.
Plus i guess the alcohol content of the preferred drinks really plays into it as well. Here in Germany, and i think Scandinavian countries also, beer is the primary drink, you hardly go to heavy stuff unless it´s a party or something (putting alcoholics aside). Similarly, in Korea, the primary drinks are beer and Soju (i think around 13% content), so even if they drink a lot relatively, the absolute alcohol content is still below the Russians. But who knows how accurate the data is, like you implied i suppose, i also read somehwere SK is number one.
Russians are big competitions, but I'm pretty sure I read that koreans have them beat. Vomit and people passed out on the street is a common sight.
According to wiki Second best Korea is in 13th place in the who can drink themselves to death first rankings. Roughly equal to Finland and France, but about four liters of pure alchol per person short of the title. Belarus had a commanding lead of more than 17 liters per capita
I'm sure that there is a big * there of "in countries were we have the statistics, and actually admit that drinking is a problem"
Got my copy of official artbook of Rurouni Kenshin Exhibition that started last week.
An interview between Oda and Watsuki (Oda’s mentor) is included. Watsuki revealed, shortly after OP started (1997-2000) Oda had already decided Zoro would lose his eye. I’ll post my summary later.
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It's odd how no one has ever commented, in-story, about Zoro losing his eye.