My personal theory Im quite fond of is that Shanks went to talk about Oden not BB.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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@statu:
My personal theory Im quite fond of is that Shanks went to talk about Oden not BB.
Not sure how this would pay off for anything. He's dead.
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@Gia:
…....
The problem is, this is not solidified in the story. There is no indication that Shanks follows the same ideals as Roger. We don't even know what his goals are. He's the only Yonko that seemingly doesn't even care about finding Laugh Tale.
There are things which are implied strongly without stating explicitly.
Let's decipher in straight-forward way.Good about Shank:
He saved Luffy and sacrificed his arm.
#He tried to save Ace.
#He stopped the Marineford war and meaningless death.
Bad about Shank:He met Gorosei and 'snitched' on someone.
So, the more rational way to take it as some good logical intention we don't know about. Just because Marine or the Gorosei trust him doesn't make him a bad man. If anything, it means those guys themselves are not as bad as we make out of them and there are hidden burdens they carry. Existence of Im pretty much confirm this..at least to me.
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There are things which are implied strongly without stating explicitly.
Let's decipher in straight-forward way.Good about Shank:
He saved Luffy and sacrificed his arm.
#He tried to save Ace.
#He stopped the Marineford war and meaningless death.
Bad about Shank:He met Gorosei and 'snitched' on someone.
So, the more rational way to take it as some good logical intention we don't know about. Just because Marine or the Gorosei trust him doesn't make him a bad man. If anything, it means those guys themselves are not as bad as we make out of them and there are hidden burdens they carry. Existence of Im pretty much confirm this..at least to me.
If you read my first post, I specifically mention I don't think Shanks is "evil" or a true "villain". Yes, there are things he's clearly done that have saved lives (Luffy's, countless Pirates/Marines at Marineford) and clearly ideologies about Pirates exhibiting some form of freedom. However, I do think Shanks is a morally grey antagonist. His intentions are good. He saved Luffy not only because he's a kid he grew close to, but because he reminded him of Roger. BUT, we don't know Shanks' actual goals. We don't know what he's using his connections for. We don't know why he has met with the Gorosei. We really don't know why he's elated to meet Luffy with a pretty menacing look.
The way Oda draws this scene with the Gorosei, it is meant for the reader to be shocked or confused, and I don't think its meant to perceive Shanks as this morally amazing character to Luffy anymore. You are supposed to question why Shanks would meet with people like them.
Yes, its clear there is some sort of "peace" motif going on with Imu (the small scene where he/she reaches their hand out to a butterfly), however, there is a clear goal of corruption here, especially when the Empty Throne is built on an entire lie: That there quite literally IS a leader pulling all of the strings. However, contrary to all of this, is the pure fact that the WG lets the Tenyruubito exist as they are, with Slavery and control. Then you have the Revolutionaries trying to take these people out, and are considered people with "good" intentions.
Clearly the World Government is bad, but I do foresee Oda doing something that at least explains why they are like this, similar to how he will likely explain why Shanks is associated with them.
I do think Shanks is very complicated character, and we will learn more about this after Wano. His origins are unknown, his intentions are unknown, outside of "maintaining peace", and he is overall just a very weird character as of late. I think thats the point though. I believe Oda is making Shanks into this morally complicated character so that when Luffy encounters him, its going to be a HUGE moment in the series, like bigger than anything else before.
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It’s rather suspicious that Shanks was able to end the war at Marineford AND recover the bodies of Ace/Whitebeard. Sengoku just let that happen.
Conversely, would Big Mom or Kaido have been able to do the same? Probably not… they’d keep rampaging. The admirals still had it in them.
The only reason why Sengoku would have allowed this is “to maintain order,” I presume. Shanks’ job. He’s not trying to change the balance of the world, he wants to maintain it. Hence going after BB and trying to stop WB.
How will Luffy respond when he realizes his role model wasn’t who he said he was?
Will Luffy eventually become a revolutionary? He mostly liberates countries anyways and Blackbeard is more of a traditional pirate.
“One Peace”
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Maybe they had a common problem that needs adressing. A fat bearded problem. I didn't really find them hearing him out to be that weird tbh. For me it felt like nothing more than what he did with WB and his Blackbeard problem, i.e going over there and giving them a heads up that troubles a brewing for us all
I don;t know man, its like saying there is nothing weird if Osama casually strolled into the White House/Pentagon to discuss matters about Saddam Hussein.
A Pirate, especially an Emperor should not be able to do that unless he has a very deep connection with the WG.
Otherwise, I don't see why someone like Linlin would not do the same.
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I don;t know man, its like saying there is nothing weird if Osama casually strolled into the White House/Pentagon to discuss matters about Saddam Hussein.
A Pirate, especially an Emperor should not be able to do that unless he has a very deep connection with the WG.
Otherwise, I don't see why someone like Linlin would not do the same.
Linlin is a bi-polar engine of destruction who breaks her word twelve times a day. Shanks is a man of his word who does not strike unless you give him reason to. He's someone you can have a civilized meeting with, and trust to not not wreck your shit going in. He's pretty much Ned Stark in earned reputation
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Linlin is a bi-polar enginge of destruction who breaks her word twelve times a day. Shanks is a man of his word who does not strike unless you give him reason to. He's someone you can have a civilized meeting with, and trust to not not wreck your shit going in. He's pretty much Ned Stark in earned reputation
This is more like the "King beyond the Wall" meeting with Robert Baratheon. THAT is weird. Ned Stark was actually friends with the the Lord of the 7 Kingdoms and also 1 of those 7 Kingdoms.
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In Garps case it is more like finding a dog kennel with a sign that says protected by John Wick.
Garp´s name might work better than most, but don´t forget both our and OP world are filled guys like this
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Since you seem to feel there will be no major changes and the same status quo will reign, which path do you see the world of OP going on? Will it just rinse and repeat another great age of piracy based on Luffy? Is the age of piracy just a fact of life that can't be avoided? Cause i sure feel like the age of piracy is a symptom of underlying problems and not something unavoidable.
Considering that a lot of characters became pirates for reasons completely unrelated to socioeconomics, yes. Luffy himself became a pirate not because he was oppressed or anything. He just met this badass pirate guy.
The very existence of Devil Fruits make piracy viable since it's so easy for some random mofo to just abuse his flashy abilities to govern some backwater town.
I just want to say that the world being built specifically for pirates is not a permanent state. The world is what we once known as the age of discovery and sailing is the real means of transport and because of this the difficulty in countries/authorities helping each other allows for pillaging and injustice.
The lack of a mode of flight and aircraft in the story allows for this (just like our history). So basically, what I am trying to say is with Oda's focus on technological advancements and Vegapunk playing such a heavy role, I won't discount airships and planes in the end.
However, if Oda wants to keep it at a permanent state of no-change, whether the writing allows that in a believable way in the future will be another issue.
Like for now, most of the fanbase rarely asks "hey so why aren't there planes" because the OP world doesn't have skyscrapers, bullet trains, industrial age revolution, etc. But we do know it will happen, like in every good fictional world that is based on the real world, a sense of progression for the civilization is a must no matter where the universe intends to go after it ends.We already have trains in the story. And they're nothing more than glorified ships. Factories are also commonplace, so the industrial revolution is already there.
Not sure how practical planes will be due to unpredictable weather, obstacle sky islands and unreliable compasses. We already have some airships here and there, but they're only used locally.
I'm lazy but off my head, the introduction of Kong above Sengoku means the World Government, while heavily invested in navy, does have a powerful military.
It's easy to forget that besides the WG, the world of OP is largely "governed" by the 170 countries which means that piracy is not as defined as we would believe.
In terms of raw power, yes, the pirates and marines can create chaos and destruction but in terms of civilization and societies, the 170 countries and Reverie happening means that this is not just a Marines vs Pirates cat and mouse chase.
I think the problem here is that we were shown how easily Crocodile, Blackbeard and Flamingo overwhelmed an entire country military and resources which weaken the countries governing stand in our minds but this is not the norm and they are the exceptions (3 shichibukai pirates).
Which is to say most countries don't easily fall to pirates.Piracy is a means to wealth/fame/honour/power, just like how in today's world starting your own business is a means to achieve that. You can be the kindest entrepreneur around but you know that if you want to make it into the big leagues, you'll have to amass certain things but most people that successfully climb the corporate ladder at a fast pace is not kind (like Luffy is trying to do in the OP world). But if they are, then perhaps they are insanely talented (Luffy).
That is also why I believe that what Luffy and Roger said about what they want to do is probably to connect the world in some form or another, so that people from luffy's hometown village can easily experience the culture of skypiea or water7.
So you know, the weaker people who are not monsters like them don't have to risk dying in a storm just to experience the world.
The reason for that is because this belief of global human connection opposes the Celestial Dragons and corrupted side of WG, which indulge in misinformation and caste-ing people.
This ties in with that long long ago theory of the redline breaking up(or something like that) and all 4 seas to come together.But that's another story.
The next war will change the one piece world. Even if piracy were not to end (which I agree will not end completely), some big changes will have to happen after Luffy eventually "unite" all the good guys.
Most likely the evil in both WG and the pirates will be greatly reduced and peace will come.
If the next war or ending sparks another "WhiteBeard moment" then there's no point to this build up to Luffy as a messiah-like character or the "one" because it will lead to chaos.Inherited will and dreams is nice but Roger also equally created chaos and increase overall pillage and rape in the world.
Luffy has to significantly reduce that or end it or there is no point to the narrative.
You are right that there will be another "king" but not in the same sense as what Roger and WB did, that's my two cents.I would think that the Pirate King saving the world would increase pirate action since it would be validating piracy as a whole. No doubt he will inspire a whole new generation of pirates much like Roger did, and it won't be his fault since that's just how legends work.
It's a bit strange to think Luffy winning will bring world peace. Unless the whole world falls into a socialistic utopia by the end, you will still have kings and queens (or any ruler really) fighting over resources, meaning socioeconomical issues will still exist, leading to more criminals. And that's ignoring the ones that just want to be pirates for the cool factor since their hero was one.
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The Great Age of Piracy will end with the last war.
Chaos eventually end and lead to temporal albeit long periods of peace.
Our world's great age of piracy ended because of an unrelenting marines and navy, along with the end of the new world fever.
Which is to say, One Piece discovery will end it because there's no longer a romanticised endpoint.
Marines will fix their corruption to a reasonable degree and they are still ultimately the good guys.
This is not something that's really debatable because we have seen more marines embodying justice than corrupted ones, with the most corrupted being the celestial dragons that will finally see their end.
Even Akainu is not exactly corrupted, just corrupted with an ideological view.All the evil pirates we've seen in the manga are either fodder compared to navy powerhouses, have had a change of heart because of Luffy or will get punched to irrelevancy so there's that.
Most likely Bartholomew, Law, Bege, whatevers will still sail around still as pirates but as the romanticed adventurers "good" ones that Oda set them out to be in his first pilot Romance Dawn. Even if they are committing crimes that border on grey areas.Is it supposed to end completely? I doubt it. Piracy and searching for freedom has been completely intertwined in One Piece, and that can certainly take on sinister implications, nevertheless it´s still part of it.
And while the Great Pirate Era has seen a never seen amount of pirates going through the world, it seems like pirates have always been part of the OP world irregardless of One Piece (which technically did not exist before Roger went to Raftel).
Heck, at its peak, the era before seems much more overwhelming with Rox, Roger, Whitebeard, Garp and so on. -
It feel like there are really only two fates that could befall Shanks when this is all said and done…
- He is killed by someone, most likely Blackbeard (or possibly the WG), adding additional fuel for Luffy to avenge him and take out the murdered of his mentor/hero.
- He is actually the final villain. If this happens, (like others have mentioned in the last few pages of this thread) I think it is one of those cases of where Shanks is in a morally gray place. Like he thinks he is doing right by the world to bring peace and balance, but is either oblivious to or does not care about the implications/consequences of how he achieves that peace and balance. Sort of a "gotta crack a few eggs to make a cake" kind of view… which Luffy obviously has a problem with and is betrayed by his hero believing this and behaving that way.
In either case, I do not think he is completely, overtly evil… nor does he just survive and come along for the ride/stand aside while Luffy gets all the glory.
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Linlin is a bi-polar engine of destruction who breaks her word twelve times a day. Shanks is a man of his word who does not strike unless you give him reason to. He's someone you can have a civilized meeting with, and trust to not not wreck your shit going in. He's pretty much Ned Stark in earned reputation
Sure we know Linlin is a mercurial character.
But we also know she has the presence of mind to create strong alliances based on the Prestige of people that attend her Tea Parties and what not.
Yes, I can understand that the WG that created the Warlord system would be willing to negotiate with an Emperor to maintain balance.
But I still find it hard to believe that the People who destroy entire isalnds/Cultures just to maintain their authority, would let one of the biggest factors undermining that authority to walk around free.
The most logical conclusion is that Shanks is a Snitch or Undercover. A known factor that the WG 100% believes it can control. Otherwise, I just don't see another alternative as being believable.
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Sure we know Linlin is a mercurial character.
But we also know she has the presence of mind to create strong alliances based on the Prestige of people that attend her Tea Parties and what not.
Yes, I can understand that the WG that created the Warlord system would be willing to negotiate with an Emperor to maintain balance.
But I still find it hard to believe that the People who destroy entire isalnds/Cultures just to maintain their authority, would let one of the biggest factors undermining that authority to walk around free.
The most logical conclusion is that Shanks is a Snitch or Undercover. A known factor that the WG 100% believes it can control. Otherwise, I just don't see another alternative as being believable.
My personal take is more along the lines of the elder stars engaging in realpolitiks and Shanks being at a standing and reputation where people are willing to hear him out if he goes out of his way to engage with you. But i mean we may have different reads on the elder stars, i never pegged them as fanatics or people who attack before consideration, i have them as pragmatical leaders who try to balance their cards as best they can and would be willing to compromise when it is mutually benefitial.
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Shanks is allowed to be the balance guy because he passed on his will to Luffy. Maybe he still wants to go for One Piece, since Roger had passed on his hat before finding it, but I can't imagine Roger having a casual meeting with the Gorosei and it seems to make some sense?
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Shanks is allowed to be the balance guy because he passed on his will to Luffy. Maybe he still wants to go for One Piece, since Roger had passed on his hat before finding it, but I can't imagine Roger having a casual meeting with the Gorosei and it seems to make some sense?
Passing the hat doesnt signify that though, or at least there is no confirmation. We have no idea what it means. Luffy didn't proclaim he was going to be PK or Find One Piece when Shanks gave him the hat. We dont knkw why Roger left it to Shanks. There's clearly more history/flashback intended for this.
The fact that there is a Giant strawhat with the WG means it may have more importance than a Pirates goal.
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I really love Luffy pointing out that before the time skip it would have taken the whole crew working together with all they had to take down one of the numbers and now he can one shot that creature
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@Gia:
Passing the hat doesnt signify that though, or at least there is no confirmation. We have no idea what it means. Luffy didn't proclaim he was going to be PK or Find One Piece when Shanks gave him the hat. We dont knkw why Roger left it to Shanks. There's clearly more history/flashback intended for this.
The fact that there is a Giant strawhat with the WG means it may have more importance than a Pirates goal.
He literally claimed that he was going to be Pirate King right before Shanks gave him the hat and Shanks says he acts just like he did as a kid. Maybe he (still?) wants to be Pirate King as well, or maybe he doesn't, but he definitely sees himself and Roger in Luffy. This might be some kind of fallacy, but if Shanks saw himself in Luffy and everyone sees Roger in Luffy, I don't think it's at all a stretch to suggest that Roger saw himself in Shanks and passed the hat alone in a similar gesture as Shanks to Luffy. The only thing I can suggest against this notion is Roger's desire for his son to find One Piece in the future instead of for Shanks to do so, though I imagine the reason is related to whatever Shanks was crying about.
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Is Drake the guy Hawkings said had a 1% chance at surviving?
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Hawkins is usually making predictions about Luffy, he seems to have an interest in him.
I think that he's intrigued that Luffy's chances aren't exactly 0%. We may find that his chances go up the longer the arc goes on.
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He literally claimed that he was going to be Pirate King right before Shanks gave him the hat and Shanks says he acts just like he did as a kid. Maybe he (still?) wants to be Pirate King as well, or maybe he doesn't, but he definitely sees himself and Roger in Luffy. This might be some kind of fallacy, but if Shanks saw himself in Luffy and everyone sees Roger in Luffy, I don't think it's at all a stretch to suggest that Roger saw himself in Shanks and passed the hat alone in a similar gesture as Shanks to Luffy. The only thing I can suggest against this notion is Roger's desire for his son to find One Piece in the future instead of for Shanks to do so, though I imagine the reason is related to whatever Shanks was crying about.
Sorry, haven't read chapter 1 in a while lol.
Anyway, im not sure it directly means this, only because Shanks doesn't seem like he's directly trying to become PK. He even says in chapter 1 "even better than us huh" when Luffy claims this.
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@Gia:
Sorry, haven't read chapter 1 in a while lol.
Anyway, im not sure it directly means this, only because Shanks doesn't seem like he's directly trying to become PK. He even says in chapter 1 "even better than us huh" when Luffy claims this.
Yep. Since chapter 1 his motives have been hidden from us, but we do know that he thinks Luffy is just like he was as a kid. My thought is that Roger passed his will onto Shanks, who decided differently at some point, thus Roger hoping for his (not yet conceived) son to find One Piece. Shanks went to the correct island but found someone else to take on Roger's will instead since, for whatever reason, his will changed. We know that after Roger came back from Laugh Tale Shanks cried for some reason. Maybe he gave up on that dream for some reason or another? It's just conjecture, but I do think based on his initial comment about Luffy being just like him as a kid and what we know about Luffy's similarities to Roger, we can infer that the passing of the hat is symbolic of seeing one's self in another.
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I gotta say, "Shanks is working for the WG" is one of the most far out theories in a while that I've seen the OP community to like, seriously ponder.
It would be like, I don't know, Gandalf betraying everyone at the end of the The Hobbit.
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I gotta say, "Shanks is working for the WG" is one of the most far out theories in a while that I've seen the OP community to like, seriously ponder.
It would be like, I don't know, Gandalf betraying everyone at the end of the The Hobbit.
It makes sense, doesn’t it?
We think we know Shanks because he’s been around since the beginning… but he’s only appeared in about 15 chapters total.
Chapter 233. How did the Gorosei know that Shanks sent envoys to Whitebeard? Are they watching him? Why would it be “catastrophic”? When we saw it happen, they didn’t cause too much of a ruckus.
“Shanks could do a lot of damage, but I don’t think his ambitions include world conquest.”
“We should assess the situation before making any hasty moves.”
“The destruction of the three great powers would reverberate throughout the world. They must be protected.”Three great powers... the Shichibukai, the Marines, and the Yonkou. Sounds like the Gorosei wants to maintain hegemony — meaning their goals are aligned with Shanks. Shanks is on a leash.
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Since you seem to feel there will be no major changes and the same status quo will reign, which path do you see the world of OP going on? Will it just rinse and repeat another great age of piracy based on Luffy? Is the age of piracy just a fact of life that can't be avoided? Cause i sure feel like the age of piracy is a symptom of underlying problems and not something unavoidable.
Well, there are the Sea Trains. Obviously, they are still very new technology, but if W7 can mass produce them, that would help long-distance travel through the OP world.
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I gotta say, "Shanks is working for the WG" is one of the most far out theories in a while that I've seen the OP community to like, seriously ponder.
It would be like, I don't know, Gandalf betraying everyone at the end of the The Hobbit.
It's been too long, but I think when Gandalf resurrected(reincarnated) into Gandalf the White and met the first of the fellowship, they were initially scared of him. And and and it touched multiple times on Gandalf being tempted by the ring or joining up w Suaromon. So it wouldn't have been total totaly left field. It might be harder to see now that the story is so old and hindsight is 20/20, but if LOTR ran weekly like OP, there would be discussions to be had at certain points I believe. Interesting thought!
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It's been too long, but I think when Gandalf resurrected(reincarnated) into Gandalf the White and met the first of the fellowship, they were initially scared of him. And and and it touched multiple times on Gandalf being tempted by the ring or joining up w Suaromon. So it wouldn't have been total totaly left field. It might be harder to see now that the story is so old and hindsight is 20/20, but if LOTR ran weekly like OP, there would be discussions to be had at certain points I believe. Interesting thought!
Shanks has been written with such subtlety that it’s easy to miss the hints. Chapter 234. Shanks heads to Whitebeard to stop Ace. Ben Beckmann asks if the government would stop them. Shanks doesn’t seem concerned. Not because he’s strong, but because he’s affiliated.
Chapter 434. Whitebeard calls out Shanks for his notoriety AND his willpower (metaphor manifest in conquerer’s haki). Shanks asks Whitebeard to stop Ace. Whitebeard drunkenly and arrogantly refuses, clinging to his memories of an era long gone. Whitebeard was the catalyst of the chaos of today and Shanks tried to maintain balance.
The question remains. What are Shanks’ ambitions? Why is his willpower so incredible? What is he trying to prevent?
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Shanks has been written with such subtlety that it’s easy to miss the hints. Chapter 234. Shanks heads to Whitebeard to stop Ace. Ben Beckmann asks if the government would stop them. Shanks doesn’t seem concerned. Not because he’s strong, but because he’s affiliated.
I think Shanks didn't care because it was so urgent. It was worth it. Just like how BM didn't care that the WG would listen in on her call to Kaido
I don't see Shanks having this other agenda. I think he rather keep the balance and at times the WG and his interest align enough to cooperate or at least share info.
In the end, I don't even see Im or the WG as the "big bad", if there is one. I always felt Madara wouldn't be the "big bad" for Kishimoto's series as well, so i'll wait to see how this goes.
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I think Shanks didn't care because it was so urgent. It was worth it. Just like how BM didn't care that the WG would listen in on her call to Kaido
I don't see Shanks having this other agenda. I think he rather keep the balance and at times the WG and his interest align enough to cooperate or at least share info.
In the end, I don't even see Im or the WG as the "big bad", if there is one. I always felt Madara wouldn't be the "big bad" for Kishimoto's series as well, so i'll wait to see how this goes.
Ch. 96: The Greatest Evil in the East
I get the feeling that the futures envisioned by all these factions may be “evil,” to some degree. The Marines pursue justice, law, and order — but internally, each individual takes actions according to his own moral
compass (which ends up disastrous under despots like Morgan and Akainu).The World Government and the Military sanction genocide, child experimentation, human trafficking, slavery, drug production, and illicit weapons trade.
Certain pirates are given legal right to depose governments and run amok (Crocodile; Doflamingo). Others are able to hold entire territories due to their power.
And then you have forces of pure chaos and anarchy… Eustass Kid and Blackbeard.
Yet Shanks aims to preserve balance? Why?
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Ch. 96: The Greatest Evil in the East
I get the feeling that the futures envisioned by all these factions may be “evil,” to some degree. The Marines pursue justice, law, and order — but internally, each individual takes actions according to his own moral
compass (which ends up disastrous under despots like Morgan and Akainu).The World Government and the Military sanction genocide, child experimentation, human trafficking, slavery, drug production, and illicit weapons trade.
Certain pirates are given legal right to depose governments and run amok (Crocodile; Doflamingo). Others are able to hold entire territories due to their power.
And then you have forces of pure chaos and anarchy… Eustass Kid and Blackbeard.
Yet Shanks aims to preserve balance? Why?
To avoid another guy like Rocks appears before Luffy becomes the Pirate King, perhaps?
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I mean it would be quite a twist if Luffy's mentor figure turns out as OP's version of evil James Bond, I'll give you guys that.
And I don't mean to sound like a dick, I blame these pauses between chapters, everyone is bored, minds run wild, theories run amok, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.
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Shanks found a way to harvest Haki, so Luffy is the equivalent of feeding your prey to make them fat and juicy.
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Shanks found a way to harvest Haki, so Luffy is the equivalent of feeding your prey to make them fat and juicy.
O_O
Maybe… “inherited will.”
Haki = willpower
Luffy = Joy Boy’s reincarnation
The Straw Hat absorbs willpower? Transfers it? Or is it that Roger had the Gomu Gomu no Mi and Luffy has the flames of the former Pirate King within him?
Maybe we shouldn’t trust Rayleigh so much?
Under what circumstances did this meeting happen?
Intentionally? Well, he is Mihawk’s dad.
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Ch. 96: The Greatest Evil in the East
I get the feeling that the futures envisioned by all these factions may be “evil,” to some degree. The Marines pursue justice, law, and order — but internally, each individual takes actions according to his own moral
compass (which ends up disastrous under despots like Morgan and Akainu).The World Government and the Military sanction genocide, child experimentation, human trafficking, slavery, drug production, and illicit weapons trade.
Certain pirates are given legal right to depose governments and run amok (Crocodile; Doflamingo). Others are able to hold entire territories due to their power.
And then you have forces of pure chaos and anarchy… Eustass Kid and Blackbeard.
Yet Shanks aims to preserve balance? Why?
Shanks possibly sees the chess board better. Meaning, he can see how it can get worse than it is. WB holding his spot is way better than this current era of chaos where Teach has the position. Not that he can predict everyone's moves, but if his main function is to preserve the balance, then a disruptor is who Shanks keeps his eye on.
There's disruption that can lead to the worst case scenario, then there's disruption that leads to "good". Teach and Luffy are disruptors. Roger was a disruptor. I don't think Shanks likes Teach's kind of disruption.
Remember what Doffy said. Without him, many countries that used his services/products are helpless and the "monsters" that he held back in some way no longer have a leash. I'm not convinced we've seen the worst yet. I'm keeping my eye out for whoever Shanks is warning the Gorosei about and I don't think it's Teach. He went to WB to pull back Ace, meaning it was somewhat in WB's power at that moment to change things. I think it's within the Gorosei's power to stop something that is right under their nose as well
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Shanks possibly sees the chess board better. Meaning, he can see how it can get worse than it is. WB holding his spot is way better than this current era of chaos where Teach has the position. Not that he can predict everyone's moves, but if his main function is to preserve the balance, then a disruptor is who Shanks keeps his eye on.
There's disruption that can lead to the worst case scenario, then there's disruption that leads to "good". Teach and Luffy are disruptors. Roger was a disruptor. I don't think Shanks likes Teach's kind of disruption.
Remember what Doffy said. Without him, many countries that used his services/products are helpless and the "monsters" that he held back in some way no longer have a leash. I'm not convinced we've seen the worst yet. I'm keeping my eye out for whoever Shanks is warning the Gorosei about and I don't think it's Teach. He went to WB to pull back Ace, meaning it was somewhat in WB's power at that moment to change things. I think it's within the Gorosei's power to stop something that is right under their nose as well
I agree with you in that Shanks sees the chessboard better than others… but this thread has just convinced me of just how far he’s willing to go in order to preserve balance.
Roger’s flames live on within the Gomu Gomu no Mi.
Of course souls reside in Devil Fruits — that’s the only way a gun could eat the Dog Dog Fruit and live. Same with Funkfreed.
Shanks carried it alongside him because he was planning to revive Roger.
Luffy’s dumb ass ate it. Therefore, Roger’s flame and willpower reside inside of him.
Hence his CoC haki. Strengthened by the strength of his blood and the ambition of his ancestors.
Truly a perfect storm.
Shanks clearly intends to use Luffy for some nefarious means. He told him to become a pirate because he knew Roger’s will would spur Luffy forth — causing the flames of Roger to drive him forward to success.
The hat is Roger’s memento. Of course Luffy has affinity towards it.
So Shanks clearly has wanted to harvest Luffy for some reason. But what does he truly want?
What would drive the pirate king’s apprentice to such lengths? Working with the WG, betraying his mentee…
Perhaps a far greater evil, indeed. The Ancient Weapons? Ancient Giants? The Ancient Kingdom? What about the ancients?
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O_O
Maybe… “inherited will.”
Haki = willpower
Luffy = Joy Boy’s reincarnation
The Straw Hat absorbs willpower? Transfers it? Or is it that Roger had the Gomu Gomu no Mi and Luffy has the flames of the former Pirate King within him?
Maybe we shouldn’t trust Rayleigh so much?
Under what circumstances did this meeting happen?
Intentionally? Well, he is Mihawk’s dad.
No, Roger did not have the Rubber fruit.
Way, way, waay too many people would have commented on it if it was true.
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No, Roger did not have the Rubber fruit.
Way, way, waay too many people would have commented on it if it was true.
Roger’s bounty: 5,564,800,000 berries
5 6
ご む
Go muAlso, I don’t think Luffy’s attacks will resemble rubber for the entire series. Rubber bullets became armored. 流桜 adds the firepower.
Roger was said to be like a demon when angered. Imagine Luffy.
He’ll probably end up with the Mera Mera no Mi too… if Sabo dies. I’m betting he gets the trifecta: Gomu, Mera, Goku.
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Roger’s bounty: 5,564,800,000 berries
5 6
ご む
Go muAlso, I don’t think Luffy’s attacks will resemble rubber for the entire series. Rubber bullets became armored. 流桜 adds the firepower.
Roger was said to be like a demon when angered. Imagine Luffy.
He’ll probably end up with the Mera Mera no Mi too… if Sabo dies. I’m betting he gets the trifecta: Gomu, Mera, Goku.
No, Roger did not have that fruit.
At the very least Rayleigh would have said something about it. Or Edward, Linlin, Sengoku, DD, Crocodile, Smoker, Buggy, basically nearly every character the SH's met would have said something.
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Roger’s bounty: 5,564,800,000 berries
5 6
ご む
Go muAlso, I don’t think Luffy’s attacks will resemble rubber for the entire series. Rubber bullets became armored. 流桜 adds the firepower.
Roger was said to be like a demon when angered. Imagine Luffy.
He’ll probably end up with the Mera Mera no Mi too… if Sabo dies. I’m betting he gets the trifecta: Gomu, Mera, Goku.
The 5648 in his bounty is a reference to his name.
Go = 5, Ro(ku) = 6, Ji(The ten-ten form of Shi) = 4, and Ya = 8Go Ro Ji Ya -> GOru D. ROJ(I)YA -> Gol D. Roger
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Roger’s bounty: 5,564,800,000 berries
5 6
ご む
Go muAlso, I don’t think Luffy’s attacks will resemble rubber for the entire series. Rubber bullets became armored. 流桜 adds the firepower.
Roger was said to be like a demon when angered. Imagine Luffy.
He’ll probably end up with the Mera Mera no Mi too… if Sabo dies. I’m betting he gets the trifecta: Gomu, Mera, Goku.
That's pun of his name. Luffy will have only 5 and 6 in his bounty. A 5.6 billion bounty to just surpass Roger.
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Not to mention that Roger having Gomu Gomu fruit would be the lamest thing ever
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Yet Shanks aims to preserve balance? Why?
Where is all this "Shanks aims to preserve balance" nonsense coming from?
Sorry, but I don't really see it in the manga.It's the same with the Shanks is an evil end boss or whatever theory, that poped up… Where are you people getting that?
Shanks is a pirat - a Yonko, one of the absolute top tiers in the pirate world, not a saint. Just like Luffy or Law or Ace or every other damn pirate in the manga.
Does he has his own agenda? Of course!
But what do we now about Shanks agenda in gerneral?
We know two years ago he was against Ace chasing Teach, because he thought it is too dangerous at the time for this two to fight. So, he tiered to stop it, consequences be damned (as shown in chapter 234). At the end he failed.
We know he intercepted Kaidou as Whitebeard was on the way to Marineford to rescue Ace. And we know he later turned up at Marineford and was able to stop useless killing. Is that seriously a bad thing??? We don't know if there is a specific reason why Sengoku was willing to listen to Shanks. All we know is that he did it and the war ended.
Hell, we don't even know why Shanks thought he should interfere with the whole affair. He could very well have gone "I warned you, you didn't listen, now see how you are able to rescue your crew member, Whitebeard". All we can do is try to read between the lines why Shanks warned Whitebeard and interfered in the war. (And yes, I get that it looks like he is making sure the balance of the three powers stays intact. But where are the evidence, that this was really the reason…)
And after the TS... Is it really surprising that Shanks - I would say he looks like a mixture of pissed and exited - doesn´t throw a party for Luffy 1.5B berry bounty at the end of chapter 903 like he did for Luffys first bounty, because if you remember the cover of the chapters 873 and 875 where - oh... how was this guy called again, that practical deified Luffy... Bartolomeo! - wracked havoc on one of Shanks island. There is already trouble between Shanks and Luffy brewing, but only Shanks knows of it.
And Shanks turning up at Mary Geoise right at the reverie to talk about one specific pirate with the gorosei. Is it suspicious? Yes, but it doesn't make Shanks evil or means that he works with the WG, because we don't know who the pirate is, he wanted to talk about! It could be Luffy or BB or Wevil or some other pirate. Furthermore, isn't it also dangerous for a pirate like Shanks to walk straight into the lion’s den of Mary Geoise while the reverie is underway as practical all the powerhouse of the marines are assembled there at the time. Alone! We don't know the reason why Shanks took the risk, we just know he did it and it was because of a pirate.Shanks is a part of the story right from the beginning, we know of him know for nearly 1000 chapters, but we don't know a lot about him or his agenda. So, we try to fill the blank pages of the enigma called Shanks with assumptions and speculations.
And I don't mean to sound like a dick, I blame these pauses between chapters, everyone is bored, minds run wild, theories run amok, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.
The bold one.
Some of the theories that are voiced now are so far stretched its hard to even warp one's head around it. -
No, Roger did not have that fruit.
At the very least Rayleigh would have said something about it. Or Edward, Linlin, Sengoku, DD, Crocodile, Smoker, Buggy, basically nearly every character the SH's met would have said something.
We don’t know the true nature of the Gomu Gomu no Mi, perhaps. When combined with Haki and Awakening, it may resemble something else. Chopper, Doflamingo, Katakuri, Cracker, and Big Mom all had abilities that looked nothing like their original powers.
Did Roger have a devil fruit? If so, just one? One could make the argument for him having multiple (like Blackbeard) — including the Mera Mera no Mi (though apparently there’s no historical precedent for it).
@All:
The 5648 in his bounty is a reference to his name.
Go = 5, Ro(ku) = 6, Ji(The ten-ten form of Shi) = 4, and Ya = 8Go Ro Ji Ya -> GOru D. ROJ(I)YA -> Gol D. Roger
Quite fair. We haven’t seen any evidence of Roger having it in the past, but I also wonder why Shanks had it in the past. For what reason? What did he plan to do with it? How did Luffy accidentally eat it when it had been locked up?
Where is all this "Shanks aims to preserve balance" nonsense coming from?
Sorry, but I don't really see it in the manga.It's the same with the Shanks is an evil end boss or whatever theory, that poped up… Where are you people getting that?
Shanks is a pirat - a Yonko, one of the absolute top tiers in the pirate world, not a saint. Just like Luffy or Law or Ace or every other damn pirate in the manga.
Some pirates are employed by the state for controlled chaos. The Shichibukai, one of the Triumvirate, is an example of this. The Gorosei allude to the possibility of the Yonkou being the same — leashed dogs with a propensity to bite back.
And now the system aims to dismantle these groups they allowed to flourish, as has been hinted at since the Jaya arc.
Shanks has no ambition to rule the world, find One Piece, etc. But what has he consistently done?
Taken actions to preserve balance in the world. Trying to have Whitebeard call off Ace, since Blackbeard has always been an opportunist. Stopping Kaido from coming to Ace’s execution for his own selfish aims. Ending the Paramount War at Marineford. Burying Whitebeard and Ace. Taking Kid’s arm. And now a private council with the Gorosei.
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No.
What are you talking about. We know already know the nature of the fruit.The nature of the Rubber Rubber fruit is that it make's its user Rubber.
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No.
What are you talking about. We know already know the nature of the fruit.The nature of the Rubber Rubber fruit is that it make's its user Rubber.
Haven’t you wondered why certain fruits give life to the consumer?
Lassoo.
Funkfreed.
Smiley.
Bunbuku.Could it be that a soul was bestowed upon these objects from within the Devil Fruit? Do Devil Fruits carry the souls of previous users?
Vegapunk knows.
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Some pirates are employed by the state for controlled chaos. The Shichibukai, one of the Triumvirate, is an example of this. The Gorosei allude to the possibility of the Yonkou being the same — leashed dogs with a propensity to bite back.
And now the system aims to dismantle these groups they allowed to flourish, as has been hinted at since the Jaya arc.
Yes, the Shichibuaki were leashed dogs to counter together with marines the power of the Yonkos. But where was it hinted that the Yonkos are "leashed dogs" of the WG? Could you please point me to the chapter, because I can't remember ever reading something hinting to it.
And the Shichibukai system now mainly got abolished because of King Cobra and King Riku (with backing from Issho iirc) convinced the other kings at the reverie to do so.Shanks has no ambition to rule the world, find One Piece, etc. But what has he consistently done?
That's what I meant as I wrote that we don't know Shanks agenda. We don't know Shanks ambition or whatever he is up to. All we can say is that he is powerful enough the become a Yonko, his crewmembers apparently are also very strong (don't remember right now if it was Brandnew or Sengoku who said the Redhair Pirates are the most balanced Yonko crew) and he is apparently also very good at reading the chess board to draw his own conclusions from what is happening around the world. And it are probably these conclusions which decide whether he takes action or not. Put this is pure speculations on my part because we know less about Shanks and his overall agenda/motivation/ambition than we think.
Haven’t you wondered why certain fruits give life to the consumer?
Lassoo.
Funkfreed.
Smiley.
Bunbuku.Could it be that a soul was bestowed upon these objects from within the Devil Fruit? Do Devil Fruits carry the souls of previous users?
Vegapunk knows.
With that post it's getting really hard for me to take you seriously, because… just NO! I don't even know how to counter this, because it sounds so wrong to me and I really don't want to insult you but NO!
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Yes, the Shichibuaki were leashed dogs to counter together with marines the power of the Yonkos. But where was it hinted that the Yonkos are "leashed dogs" of the WG? Could you please point me to the chapter, because I can't remember ever reading something hinting to it.
And the Shichibukai system now mainly got abolished because of King Cobra and King Riku (with backing from Issho iirc) convinced the other kings at the reverie to do so.Gorosei, Ch. 233:
“The destruction of the three great powers would reverberate throughout the world. They must be protected.”The Triumvirate:
- Shichibukai
- Marines
- Yonkou
So the Gorosei want to protect the current system, including the Yonkou.
It makes sense, doesn’t it? The government relies on both Big Mom and Kaido as essential parts of its supply chain. Big Mom oversees the manufacture of drugs and Kaido handles weapons. This is no different from the WG/Marine relationships with Doflamingo / Crocodile. Doflamingo is the broker for the underworld and funnels Yonkou dealings across their world.
Red Hair Pirates, Ch. 234:
Lucky Roo: “What now, cap’n?”
Shanks: “I’ll go to Whitebeard. Prepare to set sail!”
Ben Beckmann: “Won’t the government try to stop us?”
Shanks: “Maybe. But we’re going anyway. We’ll deal with them when the time comes!!”Shanks is awfully nonplussed about the World Government interfering. He may have them on his leash.
Ch. 434:
Whitebeard: “Your duel with Hawkeye is still fresh in my memory. Everyone was surprised beyond their imagination when you came back from East Blue missing an arm. What enemy did you give that left arm to?”
Shanks: “This?”
Luffy (flashback): “One day, I’ll have a ship and crew better than yours! I’m gonna be Pirate King!”
Shanks (smirking; eyes hidden): “I gave it up for the sake of the new era.”Shanks clearly knows something here. Does he really care about a new era of Pirate? Or is his observation haki so advanced that he perceived the future, even back during the encounter with Higuma?
Moreover, he’s concerned that “no one will be able to stop this new era from spiraling into chaos,” and warns Whitebeard. He saw it coming.
Gorosei, Ch. 594:
“The balance of the three great powers cannot be depended on any longer. Who can we use to fill the Seven Warlords’ empty seats?”So now, the Gorosei are questioning the legitimacy of the Triumvirate.
“We should wait for further developments in the New World. The balance of power among the pirates will be shifting soon. We must pick the ones who have the greatest influence.”
This is what led to the new appointments in the Shichibukai — notably, Buggy the Clown. He holds influence because of his status as a former chore boy on the Pirate King’s crew._“Blackbeard has already begun his rampage in the New World. He’s already taken out one of the rookies worth over 100 million. He knows Whitebeard’s territories through and through.”
“Of the pirate candidates for the Four Emperors, he is the frontrunner. There is no historical precedent for a man who’s eaten two Devil Fruits. Only the remaining Four Emperors themselves could possibly defeat him… and maybe Marco the Phoenix with Whitebeard’s crew.”_
Doesn’t this give you pause? The Gorosei are talking about appointing a new Yonkou — almost as if it’s an official position conferred rather than a moniker given by Morgans (as was done with Luffy).It’s also worth mentioning that there was talk of abolishing the Shichibukai long before Cobra and Riku spoke of it. I believe there’s several instances in part 1, though I can’t recall which off the top of my head.
That's what I meant as I wrote that we don't know Shanks agenda. We don't know Shanks ambition or whatever he is up to. All we can say is that he is powerful enough the become a Yonko, his crewmembers apparently are also very strong (don't remember right now if it was Brandnew or Sengoku who said the Redhair Pirates are the most balanced Yonko crew) and he is apparently also very good at reading the chess board to draw his own conclusions from what is happening around the world. And it are probably these conclusions which decide whether he takes action or not. Put this is pure speculations on my part because we know less about Shanks and his overall agenda/motivation/ambition than we think.
Something we do know about Shanks: he was very manipulative in his youth. Despite being the same age as Buggy, Shanks clearly dominated the clown and used him as a pawn. It’s like a Luffy and Usopp friendship gone wrong.
With that post it's getting really hard for me to take you seriously, because… just NO! I don't even know how to counter this, because it sounds so wrong to me and I really don't want to insult you but NO!
If you can answer those questions for me, be my guest :) I told you I didn’t have the answers!
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Can you guys guess why do I get hungry when I enter this thread?
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Can you guys guess why do I get hungry when I enter this thread?
chopper is emergency food..
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Haven’t you wondered why certain fruits give life to the consumer?
Lassoo.
Funkfreed.
Smiley.
Bunbuku.Could it be that a soul was bestowed upon these objects from within the Devil Fruit? Do Devil Fruits carry the souls of previous users?
Vegapunk knows.
BRO, we have seen multiple times that the Fruit abilities remain the same, despite its user.
We have Sabo and the fire Fruit.
We have Orochi's guy with the Clone fruit.
These fruit abilities remained consistent regardless of the user.
Therefore, the Rubber fruit would still retain its properties across Luffy and the previous user.
Yes, I will agree that one of the biggest mysteries in OP is how inanimate objects gain fruit abilities.
But the one thing that is 100% is that Roger did not have the Rubber fruit.