I kinda see why now.
Chapter 988: Sorry for the Wait
-
I kinda see why now.
-
@Joy:
Big Mom could just bitch slap Brook. She isn’t just a devil fruit user. Heck she’s been far more impressive with her raw physical might than with her devil fruit
I mean she probably could. But it doesn't really make Zeus any less easy to cut. I get the feeling like you are looking at it like a simple math equation, like 2+2=4 or something, where the actual events are more contingent on circumstances. Like for instance if Brook gets the first blow all her homies are probably going to be sliced to ribbons because that is how his power works, it in itself doesn't mean that Brook > BM but in those specific circumstances she is vulnerable to attacks and has no real way of counteracting Brooks soul slicing. No character in OP is invulnerable in every circumstance, like take Jozu, at one point Mihawk can't cut him, at another he loses his arm, the difference being the circumstances. And i think the main point seperating you and most people is that they see circumstances as perfectly valid while you see circumstances as excuses, and that gap is probably hard to bridge.
-
One Piece has a lot of slapstick comedy in it, so you shouldn't take individual attacks too seriously from a power-scaling perspective.
If Franky had actually beaten BM that would be totally different.
I expect her to be up and smashing things within a few pages next chapter. -
I take major offense to Franky and Brook being called scrubs, seriously. The disrespect. Franky in particular is certainly no push-over, while Brook is basically to Big Mom what Luffy was to Enel, i.e. her natural enemy. He still very clearly wouldn't beat her in a fight (he did lose to her before), but that doesn't mean he can't have the occasional triumphant moment against her.
I honestly don't know where all this butthurt is coming from. It's absolutely clear to me that Big Mom is an absolute monster - I can't picture any known character actually defeating her. But that doesn't make her completely untouchable or infallible, and thank God for that, because that would be incredibly boring and one-note. Even freaking Crocodile was made to look like a fool by Chopper and Sanji back in Rainbase.
I really didn't expect Franky and Brook to get such an amazing entrance, I actually kinda thought Oda had totally forgotten the two of them because they weren't important enough or something. But nope, he had them re-enter the story in the most badass fashion possibly, by running over a freaking Yonko! It was immensely satisfying for me.
-
I take major offense to Franky and Brook being called scrubs, seriously. The disrespect. Franky in particular is certainly no push-over, while Brook is basically to Big Mom what Luffy was to Enel, i.e. her natural enemy. He still very clearly wouldn't beat her in a fight (he did lose to her before), but that doesn't mean he can't have the occasional triumphant moment against her.
I honestly don't know where all this butthurt is coming from. It's absolutely clear to me that Big Mom is an absolute monster - I can't picture any known character actually defeating her. But that doesn't make her completely untouchable or infallible, and thank God for that, because that would be incredibly boring and one-note. Even freaking Crocodile was made to look like a fool by Chopper and Sanji back in Rainbase.
I really didn't expect Franky and Brook to get such an amazing entrance, I actually kinda thought Oda had totally forgotten the two of them because they weren't important enough or something. But nope, he had them re-enter the story in the most badass fashion possibly, by running over a freaking Yonko! It was immensely satisfying for me.
My man. This guy gets it.
-
I now wonder if Zoro and Robin will face Big Mom in any capacity since at this point they're the only Straw Hats that didn't have an interaction with her.
-
@Joy:
Big Mom could just bitch slap Brook. She isn’t just a devil fruit user. Heck she’s been far more impressive with her raw physical might than with her devil fruit
Her raw physical have zero effect on Brook. She punched him and the bones shattered, they just reassemble back. But Brook can’t do enough damage to BM to defeat her, he will just be a nuisance nothing more.
-
One thing I do absolutely adore is Sad Boy's constast references to Doflamingo with that avatar - signature set up.
"You know, Doflamingo wouldn't have done that and that etc etc"
It's pretty adorable/funny.
-
One Piece has a lot of slapstick comedy in it, so you shouldn't take individual attacks too seriously from a power-scaling perspective.
If Franky had actually beaten BM that would be totally different.
I expect her to be up and smashing things within a few pages next chapter.That’s the same thing you guys said about Kaido and the scabbards. It didn’t happen
Oda can have them have their moment of glory without having Big Mom look bad. Katakuri is the perfect example. He looked vulnerable because of his own weakness not because the others got the better of him
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
One thing I do absolutely adore is Sad Boy's constast references to Doflamingo with that avatar - signature set up.
"You know, Doflamingo wouldn't have done that and that etc etc"
It's pretty adorable/funny.
You better reread Chapter 723. That’s how you portray your big bad
-
Btw you think kaidou's fire breath will defeat a bunch of sulong minks or will all scabbards go cutting fire technique to cancel his fire breaths???
-
@Joy:
That’s the same thing you guys said about Kaido and the scabbards. It didn’t happen
Oda can have them have their moment of glory without having Big Mom look bad. Katakuri is the perfect example. He looked vulnerable because of his own weakness not because the others got the better of him
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You better reread Chapter 723. That’s how you portray your big bad
I mean, I do give you points for having the tenacity to post same boring talking points chapter after chapter. You'd think it would get a bit dull.
And no thanks, I don't need to that chapter. I love Doflamingo and I think Oda did a great job with him. I also happen to think Oda also did as good of a job with Kaidou and Big Mom. Wild, huh?
-
@Joy:
That’s the same thing you guys said about Kaido and the scabbards. It didn’t happen
I've read this read this sort of comment quite a few times and it's pretty silly, honestly. Their fight hasn't even continued yet lol. Kaido literally got up after their attack like it was nothing and since then neither side has attscked the other. Yes, people expected (and still expect) Kaido to easily defeat the Scabbards after a Brief scuffle where they maybe get a few more hits in first. The fact that this hasn't occured yet doesn't prove anything since it doesn't mean it won't Happen once Oda actually starts focusing on the battlle. You act like people's predictions were wrong because they didnt come true in the e exact chapter that was expected, which is rather ridiculous. Oda happened to focus on other stuff first. It doesn't prove anybody wrong, stop acting like it does.
Edit: And honestly, what's so bad about giving the scabbards some triumphant, badass moments in this battle against Kaido? After all this build-up, it would have been majorly bad writing to have them immediately be OHKO'd by Kaido. The biggest Problems with your complaints is that you ONLY focus on the Yonko's powerlevel without taking any of the other character's story into account at all, instead regarding the scabbards or even our main characters as fodder or scrubs.
-
I've read this read this sort of comment quite a few times and it's pretty silly, honestly. Their fight hasn't even continued yet lol. Kaido literally got up after their attack like it was nothing and since then neither side has attscked the other. Yes, people expected (and still expect) Kaido to easily defeat the Scabbards after a Brief scuffle where they maybe get a few more hits in first. The fact that this hasn't occured yet doesn't prove anything since it doesn't mean it won't Happen once Oda actually starts focusing on the battlle. You act like people's predictions were wrong because they didnt come true in the e exact chapter that was expected, which is rather ridiculous. Oda happened to focus on other stuff first. It doesn't prove anybody wrong, stop acting like it does.
Edit: And honestly, what's so bad about giving the scabbards some triumphant, badass moments in this battle against Kaido? After all this build-up, it would have been majorly bad writing to have them immediately be OHKO'd by Kaido. The biggest Problems with your complaints is that you ONLY focus on the Yonko's powerlevel without taking any of the other character's story into account at all, instead regarding the scabbards or even our main characters as fodder or scrubs.
Also, there's nine of them.
2 of those being Minks that could fight with a yonkou commander evenly and now have a major upgrade because of Sulong which greatly adds to their power and speed.
Ashura Doji was invited by Kaidou to join his crew because Kaidou acknowledges his strength.
Denjiro didn't break a sweat against Zoro and Zoro hasn't broken a sweat against anyone yet in the New World.
Kinemom has stated that not only Denjiro and Ashura Doji but also Kawamatsu equal 100 men in battle. By the way, Kinemon has yet to see their current skill level after being absent for 20 years. They might be much stronger than what he remembers if they spent a good amount of these 20 years training to get ready for this day.I'd say that's quite a formidable group of people. Add to this that they all seamable know how to use Ryou and thanks to this can actually hurt Kaidou and I think it is not so clear that Kaidou should have OHKO'd them or that Oda has made Kaidou look weak at all.
Same for Big Mom. She has been shown to have so many flaws (The hunger pangs, the amnesia, Olin, killing her own family members, having the character of a 3 year old toddler) but in the end she always ends up being an unstoppable force. She is a menace and no bike in the face is going to change the menacing feel she omits. The fact that these things happen to her but she still feels like an unstoppable monster should tell you enough. Her being hit by the bike is also easily explainable. Big Mom doesn't really have much reason to be vigilant seeing she is basically indestructable so she probably has never had much reason to be vigilant and with trying to kill Nami she was also otherwise occupied. She was also angry about Zeus and she doesn't seem like a person that can focus very well when being angry. I do agree that it would suck if we are suddenly back to Olin because she was hit in the head again. Seems like a cheap way to leave her out of the fight. I'd rather have her incapacitated or preoccupied by something else (maybe Perospero related).
-
The memory loss being just a cheap plot instead of leading somewhere regarding her repressed memories still feels like one of the biggest missed opportunities. Like it didn't even have to be anything with caramel and the soul fruit, but literally anything but a simple on off switch to keep her out of action
-
I feel like we will come back to her memories issues and they will play out and have significant impact on the plot eventually. To me the whole O-Lin subplot till now was a way to make the reader familiar with this concept beforehand.
-
I mean she probably could. But it doesn't really make Zeus any less easy to cut. I get the feeling like you are looking at it like a simple math equation, like 2+2=4 or something, where the actual events are more contingent on circumstances. Like for instance if Brook gets the first blow all her homies are probably going to be sliced to ribbons because that is how his power works, it in itself doesn't mean that Brook > BM but in those specific circumstances she is vulnerable to attacks and has no real way of counteracting Brooks soul slicing. No character in OP is invulnerable in every circumstance, like take Jozu, at one point Mihawk can't cut him, at another he loses his arm, the difference being the circumstances. And i think the main point seperating you and most people is that they see circumstances as perfectly valid while you see circumstances as excuses, and that gap is probably hard to bridge.
16 char of slow clapping
-
I've read this read this sort of comment quite a few times and it's pretty silly, honestly. Their fight hasn't even continued yet lol. Kaido literally got up after their attack like it was nothing and since then neither side has attscked the other. Yes, people expected (and still expect) Kaido to easily defeat the Scabbards after a Brief scuffle where they maybe get a few more hits in first. The fact that this hasn't occured yet doesn't prove anything since it doesn't mean it won't Happen once Oda actually starts focusing on the battlle. You act like people's predictions were wrong because they didnt come true in the e exact chapter that was expected, which is rather ridiculous. Oda happened to focus on other stuff first. It doesn't prove anybody wrong, stop acting like it does.
Edit: And honestly, what's so bad about giving the scabbards some triumphant, badass moments in this battle against Kaido? After all this build-up, it would have been majorly bad writing to have them immediately be OHKO'd by Kaido. The biggest Problems with your complaints is that you ONLY focus on the Yonko's powerlevel without taking any of the other character's story into account at all, instead regarding the scabbards or even our main characters as fodder or scrubs.
What's bad ? It doesn't make sense, I've repeteadly explained that. Kaido obliterated someone stronger than them. Kaido didn't simply beat Luffy. Also again do I really have to do it again ?
Kaido is the WSC, unbeatable in one on one, can;t die, has challenged other Yonko and marines by himself and suicide is his hobby. Those guys putting up a fight is simply RIDICULOUS.
Also yes they got their moment you guys speak of and yet they are going to give Kaido hell still because Oda just simply doesn't care. Jack was clear here. They have to drag out until Sulong rans out. It won't be Kaido beating them at full strength. it will be Kaido surviving because of they ran out of time.
And yes they are scrubs. Doflamingo proved it again and again. Perospero treated Brook like a nobody. Big Mom instead gets her main homies beaten constantly and also now gets hit in the face by a freaking bike.
If that's great writing then we have a pretty big gap to cover on this argument.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, there's nine of them.
2 of those being Minks that could fight with a yonkou commander evenly and now have a major upgrade because of Sulong which greatly adds to their power and speed.
Ashura Doji was invited by Kaidou to join his crew because Kaidou acknowledges his strength.
Denjiro didn't break a sweat against Zoro and Zoro hasn't broken a sweat against anyone yet in the New World.
Kinemom has stated that not only Denjiro and Ashura Doji but also Kawamatsu equal 100 men in battle. By the way, Kinemon has yet to see their current skill level after being absent for 20 years. They might be much stronger than what he remembers if they spent a good amount of these 20 years training to get ready for this day.I'd say that's quite a formidable group of people. Add to this that they all seamable know how to use Ryou and thanks to this can actually hurt Kaidou and I think it is not so clear that Kaidou should have OHKO'd them or that Oda has made Kaidou look weak at all.
Same for Big Mom. She has been shown to have so many flaws (The hunger pangs, the amnesia, Olin, killing her own family members, having the character of a 3 year old toddler) but in the end she always ends up being an unstoppable force. She is a menace and no bike in the face is going to change the menacing feel she omits. The fact that these things happen to her but she still feels like an unstoppable monster should tell you enough. Her being hit by the bike is also easily explainable. Big Mom doesn't really have much reason to be vigilant seeing she is basically indestructable so she probably has never had much reason to be vigilant and with trying to kill Nami she was also otherwise occupied. She was also angry about Zeus and she doesn't seem like a person that can focus very well when being angry. I do agree that it would suck if we are suddenly back to Olin because she was hit in the head again. Seems like a cheap way to leave her out of the fight. I'd rather have her incapacitated or preoccupied by something else (maybe Perospero related).
Fighting Kaido's third top guy while taking turns is impressive ? Kaido would absolutely destroy Jack like he did with Luffy.
Hawkins was invited to Kaido's crew too. Is Hawkins capable of hurting Kaido ?
Zoro was having problems with Killer. Not a good comparison.
Kinemon, Kiku and Raizo, I don't even won't to make a comment because I won't to take out of my mind the image of them hurting Kaido.
Also this Ryuo comment is ridiculous. Marines can use advanced Haki, probably tons of others and Kaido is still at the top.
So no, Oda actually just doesn't care moving forward with the kind of build up he created and instead he just draws with what he thinks is "COOL" instead of drawing what makes sense.
-
@Joy:
What's bad ? It doesn't make sense, I've repeteadly explained that. Kaido obliterated someone stronger than them. Kaido didn't simply beat Luffy. Also again do I really have to do it again ?
Kaido is the WSC, unbeatable in one on one, can;t die, has challenged other Yonko and marines by himself and suicide is his hobby. Those guys putting up a fight is simply RIDICULOUS.
Also yes they got their moment you guys speak of and yet they are going to give Kaido hell still because Oda just simply doesn't care. Jack was clear here. They have to drag out until Sulong rans out. It won't be Kaido beating them at full strength. it will be Kaido surviving because of they ran out of time.
And yes they are scrubs. Doflamingo proved it again and again. Perospero treated Brook like a nobody. Big Mom instead gets her main homies beaten constantly and also now gets hit in the face by a freaking bike.
If that's great writing then we have a pretty big gap to cover on this argument.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Fighting Kaido's third top guy while taking turns is impressive ? Kaido would absolutely destroy Jack like he did with Luffy.
Hawkins was invited to Kaido's crew too. Is Hawkins capable of hurting Kaido ?
Zoro was having problems with Killer. Not a good comparison.
Kinemon, Kiku and Raizo, I don't even won't to make a comment because I won't to take out of my mind the image of them hurting Kaido.
Also this Ryuo comment is ridiculous. Marines can use advanced Haki, probably tons of others and Kaido is still at the top.
So no, Oda actually just doesn't care moving forward with the kind of build up he created and instead he just draws with what he thinks is "COOL" instead of drawing what makes sense.
I agree Kaido is far superior. But that's the point. The guy saw tons of strong haki, like Whitbeard's, Rocks', Garp's, Roger's… he fought Shanks... he faced many people that might have had advanced haki, and yet he is worried about the Scabbards - Oden Ryuo. What is different about this kinda ryuo that makes Kaido so surprised?
-
@Kaido:
Why would Sanji fight the runt of the Flying Six whom he trounced earlier in the arc?
lol. Sanji didn't do shit.
Page 1 got back up and was perfectly fine.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Joy:
What's bad ? It doesn't make sense, I've repeteadly explained that. Kaido obliterated someone stronger than them. Kaido didn't simply beat Luffy. Also again do I really have to do it again ?
Kaido is the WSC, unbeatable in one on one, can;t die, has challenged other Yonko and marines by himself and suicide is his hobby. Those guys putting up a fight is simply RIDICULOUS.
Also yes they got their moment you guys speak of and yet they are going to give Kaido hell still because Oda just simply doesn't care. Jack was clear here. They have to drag out until Sulong rans out. It won't be Kaido beating them at full strength. it will be Kaido surviving because of they ran out of time.
And yes they are scrubs. Doflamingo proved it again and again. Perospero treated Brook like a nobody. Big Mom instead gets her main homies beaten constantly and also now gets hit in the face by a freaking bike.
If that's great writing then we have a pretty big gap to cover on this argument.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Fighting Kaido's third top guy while taking turns is impressive ? Kaido would absolutely destroy Jack like he did with Luffy.
Hawkins was invited to Kaido's crew too. Is Hawkins capable of hurting Kaido ?
Zoro was having problems with Killer. Not a good comparison.
Kinemon, Kiku and Raizo, I don't even won't to make a comment because I won't to take out of my mind the image of them hurting Kaido.
Also this Ryuo comment is ridiculous. Marines can use advanced Haki, probably tons of others and Kaido is still at the top.
So no, Oda actually just doesn't care moving forward with the kind of build up he created and instead he just draws with what he thinks is "COOL" instead of drawing what makes sense.
Zoro was not having trouble with Killer.
He was fighting with 2 swords, and he had what's his name behind him attacking him, whilst trying to protect Hyori/Toko. -
I agree Kaido is far superior. But that's the point. The guy saw tons of strong haki, like Whitbeard's, Rocks', Garp's, Roger's… he fought Shanks... he faced many people that might have had advanced haki, and yet he is worried about the Scabbards - Oden Ryuo. What is different about this kinda ryuo that makes Kaido so surprised?
Nothing it's just Oda screwing up. As we saw, Oden was utterly shocked at WB's and Roger's Haki. Kaido has fought both and somehow the Scabbards can help him.
Sorry but I'm not the kind of reader who just turns his brain off and tries to enjoy just everything Oda puts on paper. Wano no matter how great it has been it has ruined Kaido with him cheating to win against Oden and getting hurt by the scabbards and now Big Mom getting hit in the face by a bike is something just as stupid and ridiculous.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
lol. Sanji didn't do shit.
Page 1 got back up and was perfectly fine.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Zoro was not having trouble with Killer.
He was fighting with 2 swords, and he had what's his name behind him attacking him, whilst trying to protect Hyori/Toko.Ok ? Killer also wasn;t using his main weapons and was out of his mind. Zoro also wasn't superior to Hawkins.
And before the usual argument of "OP isn't about fights" comes, for the last time OP is also a battle manga, everything gets resolved by fighting. They don't play cards, they fight.
-
@Joy:
What's bad ? It doesn't make sense, I've repeteadly explained that. Kaido obliterated someone stronger than them. Kaido didn't simply beat Luffy. Also again do I really have to do it again ?
Kaido is the WSC, unbeatable in one on one, can;t die, has challenged other Yonko and marines by himself and suicide is his hobby. Those guys putting up a fight is simply RIDICULOUS.
Oda never said either of these things.
-
Some latest volumes of Wano arc has reached me and when re-reading Wano arc is quite awesome but now I am certain that There will be 5 Acts in Wano.
Also one thing regarding Sanji catched my attention- when at start of Wano Sanji got to know plan of Raid he said to Kiku(as he didnt know shes physically a man) that when Kiku will see his heroic dids during Onigashima raid she might fall in love with him.
One heroic did was done, more to go.. I hope that after this arc more people will start to love Sanjis character as it would be sort of poetic that during Whole Cake he said that he is a monster/ unworthy of anyones love. Sad but it reflected how many readers seen and still see him.
-
@Joy:
So no, Oda actually just doesn't care moving forward with the kind of build up he created and instead he just draws with what he thinks is "COOL" instead of drawing what makes sense.
Couple of things:
Thank God he does that. Makes the comic that much better.
Secondly, doesn't make sense to you.Also, bro, dude, broseph, Joy Bro, Dude Boy. Boy, your weirdly whiny aggressive tone isn't helping your argument, you know?
And before the usual argument of "OP isn't about fights" comes, for the last time OP is also a battle manga, everything gets resolved by fighting. They don't play cards, they fight.
Everything isn't about the fights lol. best moments in this comic book for children miraculously haven't been fights.
-
@Joy:
What's bad ? It doesn't make sense, I've repeteadly explained that. Kaido obliterated someone stronger than them. Kaido didn't simply beat Luffy. Also again do I really have to do it again ?
Kaido is the WSC, unbeatable in one on one, can;t die, has challenged other Yonko and marines by himself and suicide is his hobby. Those guys putting up a fight is simply RIDICULOUS.
Also yes they got their moment you guys speak of and yet they are going to give Kaido hell still because Oda just simply doesn't care. Jack was clear here. They have to drag out until Sulong rans out. It won't be Kaido beating them at full strength. it will be Kaido surviving because of they ran out of time.
And yes they are scrubs. Doflamingo proved it again and again. Perospero treated Brook like a nobody. Big Mom instead gets her main homies beaten constantly and also now gets hit in the face by a freaking bike.
If that's great writing then we have a pretty big gap to cover on this argument.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Fighting Kaido's third top guy while taking turns is impressive ? Kaido would absolutely destroy Jack like he did with Luffy.
Hawkins was invited to Kaido's crew too. Is Hawkins capable of hurting Kaido ?
Zoro was having problems with Killer. Not a good comparison.
Kinemon, Kiku and Raizo, I don't even won't to make a comment because I won't to take out of my mind the image of them hurting Kaido.
Also this Ryuo comment is ridiculous. Marines can use advanced Haki, probably tons of others and Kaido is still at the top.
So no, Oda actually just doesn't care moving forward with the kind of build up he created and instead he just draws with what he thinks is "COOL" instead of drawing what makes sense.
The point that I made and you apparantly can't grasp is that at least 5 of them are formidable fighters and there's nine fighters in total against one Kaidou. Kaidou can naturally defeat them and he will but he won't simply decimate them as if they don't exist.
Dogstorm and catviper were on par with Jack. Regardless of what you think, this is impressive seeing they weren't in their Sulong form and they are now. This adds a big amount of power to their ranks but I also already said this even though you ignore it. Ashura Doji, Denjiro and Kawamatsu have all been setup to be highly skilled and powerful fighters.
The others I'll ignore since they don't seem all that powerfull biut at least they add to their numbers. They do however also possess ryou, which can hurt Kaidou, which not a lot of people can do. As you say it is advanced haki which not many actually master and all 9 of them have.
Again I'm not saying Kaidou is going to loose, hell, he won't have a hard time either, far from it actually, but the nine people he faces are not ordinary people. -
Another two weeks where the chapter discussion thread will become "Justify the Chapter to Joy Boy thread", huh!?
People, just let him think whatever he thinks. You don't need to make a point of showing how much you disagree with his views every week to the point the thread becomes nothing but that.
Although with two weeks to dissect a chapter, I suppose after a while is either that or nothing.
-
@.access:
Another two weeks where the chapter discussion thread will become "Justify the Chapter to Joy Boy thread", huh!?
People, just let him think whatever he thinks. You don't need to make a point of showing how much you disagree with his views every week to the point the thread becomes nothing but that.
Although with two weeks to dissect a chapter, I suppose after a while is either that or nothing.
The thing is that he replies. We can't just not react, otherwise he might think he has some sort of point.
-
@Joy:
[…] Kaido is the WSC, unbeatable in one on one, can;t die, has challenged other Yonko and marines by himself and suicide is his hobby. Those guys putting up a fight is simply RIDICULOUS. […]
unbeatable 1vs1 but 1vs9? ;D
maybe not so ridiculous after allno for real, maybe he actually gets beaten. but to rise and free himself again.
now would not that be RIDICULOUS?
p.s.: yes i am using sarcasm somewhere in this post
-
The thing is that he replies. We can't just not react, otherwise he might think he has some sort of point.
He wouldn't be here if he didn't think he had some sort of point and you probably aren't going to change his mind.
-
He wouldn't be here if he didn't think he had some sort of point and you probably aren't going to change his mind.
If that is the way he thinks there is no point for him to be here seeing a forum is a place to discuss things. It's not a discussion if you can't even admit you're wrong. Anyway, only time will tell.
Seeing how much he is always complaining about One Piece I don't understand why he still reads it. -
The cover story continue to go in a big circle. I guess Oda is really desprate to not do random image or request.
Jack made it to the top. He might constantly fail but he does take his job seriously. Now the question is can he at least deliver against of a bunch of c tier characters. If he does I wonder who takes revenge against him. The kings are about to get crushed by Kaido. Maybe Sanji?
Sanji had a nice rescue of Momo. I like that panel of him blocking the leg. Now he better escape King quick before he used to hype a villain again.
Franky kicking Big Mom face with a motocycle was a nice entrance.
-
Now the question is can he at least deliver against of a bunch of c tier characters.
Come on you know full well he is not going to.
-
Let's change the discussion how hilariously messed up Yamato is.
She like really thinks Momo as her son. It's pretty funny.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Like, will she go full Annie Wilkes in Misery crazy? Would be pretty cool.
-
Sanji had a nice rescue of Momo. I like that panel of him blocking the leg. Now he better escape King quick before he used to hype a villain again.
So even when oda made him throw away his pride so he can use his daddy's power up, he is still used as hype tool in combat?
-
Let's change the discussion how hilariously messed up Yamato is.
She like really thinks Momo as her son. It's pretty funny.
.That make me think his delusion may raise a succession issue. Who will be the next shogun? The son of Oden or Oden himself ? :-)
Otherwise, I'm not that much into the joke yet. I find it will be rather annoying than interesting
-
That make me think his delusion may raise a succession issue. Who will be the next shogun? The son of Oden or Oden himself ? :-)
My guess is that if she doesn't completely snap, she'll come to terms with her, for a lack of a better word, not trying to piss of anyone, real identity as Kaido's daughter.
-
Come on you know full well he is not going to.
He is fighting the secondary characters to secondary character with help. It's possible he wont fail.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@uniaka:
So even when oda made him throw away his pride so he can use his daddy's power up, he is still used as hype tool in combat?
Hopefully not. Which is why he should find Queen or go help with Jack.
-
Let's change the discussion how hilariously messed up Yamato is.
She like really thinks Momo as her son. It's pretty funny.
I thought it was more like oh yeah i guess since i am Oden i better go to it. It didn't really seem like he was convinced of it all beyond that he kind of has to if he is who he wants to be. Now maybe next week he'll fully commit to it, but as of yet it feels more like him going along with things and trying to rationalize it in his own weird way
-
I'm not looking forward to Momonosuke being a little pervert towards Yamato. :ninja:
-
That make me think his delusion may raise a succession issue. Who will be the next shogun? The son of Oden or Oden himself ? :-)
Otherwise, I'm not that much into the joke yet. I find it will be rather annoying than interesting
It's not an issue because he already said he wants to leave on Luffy's ship, and got mad at Kaido forcing the Shogun position on him to begin with. To him, Oden represents freedom, not being cooped up in Wano.
-
I thought it was more like oh yeah i guess since i am Oden i better go to it. It didn't really seem like he was convinced of it all beyond that he kind of has to if he is who he wants to be. Now maybe next week he'll fully commit to it, but as of yet it feels more like him going along with things and trying to rationalize it in his own weird way
Yeah, Yamato's deal with Oden is not so much delusion as it is roleplay. ''Oden was a man so I became one''. ''Oden sailed with the pirate king so I wanted to sail with his son''. ''I'm Oden so naturally Momo would be my son''. Everything follows the same pattern of ''I'm Oden and this is true for Oden, therefore it's also true for me.' Doesn't really seem like it comes naturally.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'm not looking forward to Momonosuke being a little pervert towards Yamato. :ninja:
Yamato: I am your father
Momo: What the hell? No you're not
Yamamto: Come here, my son hugs him and unwittingly shoves into boobs
Momo (drooling and nosebleeding): Yes, Daddy! -
Does Yamato's delusion concerning Momo change how anyone feels about how to deal with their identity? I feel like this is closer to Rachel Dolezal than Trans identity. Yamato absolutely isn't Oden and isn't Momo's father and buying into that level of delusion can only do more harm than good.
-
The point that I made and you apparantly can't grasp is that at least 5 of them are formidable fighters and there's nine fighters in total against one Kaidou. Kaidou can naturally defeat them and he will but he won't simply decimate them as if they don't exist.
Dogstorm and catviper were on par with Jack. Regardless of what you think, this is impressive seeing they weren't in their Sulong form and they are now. This adds a big amount of power to their ranks but I also already said this even though you ignore it. Ashura Doji, Denjiro and Kawamatsu have all been setup to be highly skilled and powerful fighters.
The others I'll ignore since they don't seem all that powerfull biut at least they add to their numbers. They do however also possess ryou, which can hurt Kaidou, which not a lot of people can do. As you say it is advanced haki which not many actually master and all 9 of them have.
Again I'm not saying Kaidou is going to loose, hell, he won't have a hard time either, far from it actually, but the nine people he faces are not ordinary people.As I said comapred to Kaido, Jack is a nobody. Kaido beat someone stronger than Jack in one shot. Jack is terrified of drunk Kaido. Also Neko and Inu were taking turns and resting while Jack was fighting non stop and the minks admitted they couldn't do a thing to him.
Ashura,Denjiro and Kawa again have not shown anything to justify what they did. Also my point about Haki still stands. Kaido fought guys with far superior mastery and he still survived and moved on to become the strongest creature. The scabbards hurting him isn't justified at all.
Also if Kaido was supposed to have an easy time then Oda wouldn't do what he did in this chapter. Clearly it's not meant to be easy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oda never said either of these things.
-
@Joy:
As I said comapred to Kaido, Jack is a nobody. Kaido beat someone stronger than Jack in one shot. Jack is terrified of drunk Kaido. Also Neko and Inu were taking turns and resting while Jack was fighting non stop and the minks admitted they couldn't do a thing to him.
Ashura,Denjiro and Kawa again have not shown anything to justify what they did. Also my point about Haki still stands. Kaido fought guys with far superior mastery and he still survived and moved on to become the strongest creature. The scabbards hurting him isn't justified at all.
Also if Kaido was supposed to have an easy time then Oda wouldn't do what he did in this chapter. Clearly it's not meant to be easy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Do you understand that saying, "Always bet on Kaido" is not the same as saying that Kaido is unbeatable. Of course a careful reader would know that Oda wouldn't say something like that seeing as he had already mentioned Kaido's 7 defeats. Did you know he also didn't say that Kaido couldn't die. He demonstrated how much Kaido could survive through his suicide attempt and talked about the other things he had survived and the types of people he had survived fighting, but he never said he couldn't die. The structure of Kaido's introduction specifically invites us to imagine what could potentially stop him and what monsters were able to defeat him thus far.
-
@.access:
Another two weeks where the chapter discussion thread will become "Justify the Chapter to Joy Boy thread", huh!?
People, just let him think whatever he thinks. You don't need to make a point of showing how much you disagree with his views every week to the point the thread becomes nothing but that.
Although with two weeks to dissect a chapter, I suppose after a while is either that or nothing.
Justify what exactly ? The only reason you guys bring up to justify the Kaido stuff is "well you couldn't have the scabbards not land a big blow to Kaido".. Which isn't a good enough reason at all. Why ? Because Oda didn't set up anything well. You guys try to pass this as a Wiper - Enel thing when it's not at all. Wiper used a special weapon that nearly got him killed to pull what he did. Enel comes back stronger than ever and wrecks him.
Kaido instead gets hurt by guys who are not supposed to even scratch him and instead of beating them right away Oda is trying to pass it off as a big fight because according to you "lol Ryo, they have great Haki" that is your argument ? Really ? This is how you guys justify this ?
And again with Big Mom. She looks like a clown, she constantly fails, the straw hats have gotten the better of her nearly every time and you guys yet again try to pass it off as great.
Yeah I have every right to criticize the manga. Same with you having every right to wank it as you do.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Do you understand that saying, "Always bet on Kaido" is not the same as saying that Kaido is unbeatable. Of course a careful reader would know that Oda wouldn't say something like that seeing as he had already mentioned Kaido's 7 defeats. Did you know he also didn't say that Kaido couldn't die. He demonstrated how much Kaido could survive through his suicide attempt and talked about the other things he had survived and the types of people he had survived fighting, but he never said he couldn't die. The structure of Kaido's introduction specifically invites us to imagine what could potentially stop him and what monsters were able to defeat him thus far.
Kaido's defeats are irrelevant in this case. Kaido lost in the past. Kaido lost to multiple opponents but not some measly retainers. He lost to Yonko and the marines.
Also I'm pretty sure nobody can survive the fall Kaido did. Big Mom would die by falling from the top of her castle.
Also Oda said that nobody could kill this man (including Yonko and marines) and that includes himself hence the suicide attempts. So yes Kaido is pretty much unkillable at the moment.
If we put down chapter 795 and everything else we've seen of him then Kaido getting hurt by guys who are not even approaching his level of power is plain a simple bad writing.
-
@Joy:
Justify what exactly ? The only reason you guys bring up to justify the Kaido stuff is "well you couldn't have the scabbards not land a big blow to Kaido".. Which isn't a good enough reason at all. Why ? Because Oda didn't set up anything well. You guys try to pass this as a Wiper - Enel thing when it's not at all. Wiper used a special weapon that nearly got him killed to pull what he did. Enel comes back stronger than ever and wrecks him.
You don't listen to the arguments. People have repeatedly said that half of the Scabbards are treated as strong as Kaido's right hand men. Neko and Inu, Denjiro, and Ashura Doji are all treated as on the level of Jack at least.
Kaido instead gets hurt by guys who are not supposed to even scratch him and instead of beating them right away Oda is trying to pass it off as a big fight because according to you "lol Ryo, they have great Haki" that is your argument ? Really ? This is how you guys justify this ?
You've decided that Kaido can't be scratched; it's not in the text. We've anticipated him being vulnerable to Ryou since Luffy was in prison and know that it's a technique known in Wano. The little bit of damage they did isn't a stretch.
And again with Big Mom. She looks like a clown, she constantly fails, the straw hats have gotten the better of her nearly every time and you guys yet again try to pass it off as great.
I would argue that the motorcycle hitting Big Mom is the most effective the Straw Hats have done on a full-power version of her, which isn't saying much. Otherwise, Oda certainly let them do things, but protected her by having her in a weakened state. As for her looking like a clown, that's a matter of opinion.
Yeah I have every right to criticize the manga. Same with you having every right to wank it as you do.
You do have the right to criticize it.
-
You don't listen to the arguments. People have repeatedly said that half of the Scabbards are treated as strong as Kaido's right hand men. Neko and Inu, Denjiro, and Ashura Doji are all treated as on the level of Jack at least.
And you guys ignore what I said. Inu and Neko took turns. Oda never presented them as true equals to Jack. Jack was fighting non stop, Inu and Neko were resting. Jack also didn't use his hybrid form or anything. Minks also said they couldn't contain him. Kaido has 2 guys stronger than Jack, Big Mom beat one like nothing.
You've decided that Kaido can't be scratched; it's not in the text. We've anticipated him being vulnerable to Ryou since Luffy was in prison and know that it's a technique known in Wano. The little bit of damage they did isn't a stretch.
When someone dives in from 10KM and gets up without a scratch and then you have Oda present him as unkillable then yeah he isn't not supposed to be scratched by those guys. And the point is also that Kaido didn't instantly beat them which makes them look even worse. He just started worororing instead of fighting. Where is the guy that Doflamingo was terrified off ? Where is the guy that mentally wrecked Moriah ? Where is that guy that just breaks the wills of others ? I neither see the WSC nor do I see this monster of a man as he was supposed to be.
I would argue that the motorcycle hitting Big Mom is the most effective the Straw Hats have done on a full-power version of her, which isn't saying much. Otherwise, Oda certainly let them do things, but protected her by having her in a weakened state. As for her looking like a clown, that's a matter of opinion.
How did she not look like a clown ? I really want to hear your opinion.
You do have the right to criticize it.
thank you.
-
@Joy:
Kaido's defeats are irrelevant in this case. Kaido lost in the past. Kaido lost to multiple opponents but not some measly retainers. He lost to Yonko and the marines.
We don't know who Kaido lost to (besides Oden). You're making assumptions. You're also assuming things about his relative strength and vulnerability within any given time frame that the text hasn't told us yet.
Also I'm pretty sure nobody can survive the fall Kaido did.
Luffy would literally survive it, probably without the headache that Kaido got.
Big Mom would die by falling from the top of her castle.
Says Bege sort of, but I see no reason to think she wouldn't survive it.
Also Oda said that nobody could kill this man (including Yonko and marines) and that includes himself hence the suicide attempts. So yes Kaido is pretty much unkillable at the moment.
"This is a man who challenged the navy and four emperors and was caught 18 times– and endured over a thousand tortures. He was sentenced to death forty times. When he was hanged, the rope snapped. When put under the guillotine, the blade cracked... When skewered, the spear broke, ultimately he sank nine different prison vessels. Meaning... None of these people were able to kill him! And that included he himself."
It means he's extremely resilient, not that he's unkillable. Like you said earlier, this is referring to things that happened in the past. None of these things put an end to him, including his own tries. That doesn't mean it's not possible. For instance, I would wager that Magellan would be able to kill him through poison (considering he's capable of getting drunk) unless he's immune.If we put down chapter 795 and everything else we've seen of him then Kaido getting hurt by guys who are not even approaching his level of power is plain a simple bad writing.
Nah. Oda greatly limited the damage they've done thus far, shown many of them to be at an extremely high level of strength right among pirates (right after the Yonkou) and set them up in a perfect situation both as to make it pragmatically possible that they would be able to muster the willpower (haki) to damage him just a bit, but also so that it would be satisfying to most readers.
-
Why are the scabbards "not supposed" to be able to moderately inconvenience Kaido? Is this a decree that was past somewhere in the manga?
-
@Joy:
As I said comapred to Kaido, Jack is a nobody. Kaido beat someone stronger than Jack in one shot. Jack is terrified of drunk Kaido. Also Neko and Inu were taking turns and resting while Jack was fighting non stop and the minks admitted they couldn't do a thing to him.
Ashura,Denjiro and Kawa again have not shown anything to justify what they did. Also my point about Haki still stands. Kaido fought guys with far superior mastery and he still survived and moved on to become the strongest creature. The scabbards hurting him isn't justified at all.
Also if Kaido was supposed to have an easy time then Oda wouldn't do what he did in this chapter. Clearly it's not meant to be easy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
"People say in a One on One fight Always bet on Kaido"
That does not mean he is unbeatable in a 1 on 1 fight, also that is not "Oda" saying that..that is "People in the setting"
How many people in the setting are aware of Haki?
How many people in the setting are aware of Ryudo?Didn't you notice Kaido explicitly calling out that the Scabbards were using Ryudo when they harmed him? Like Oden used when he gave Kaido those scars? Do you think Maybe "fleas" harming him with the technique that Oden used to put those scars on Kaido's chest, the one Luffy now knows might be an important detail?
-
@Joy:
And you guys ignore what I said. Inu and Neko took turns. Oda never presented them as true equals to Jack. Jack was fighting non stop, Inu and Neko were resting. Jack also didn't use his hybrid form or anything. Minks also said they couldn't contain him. Kaido has 2 guys stronger than Jack, Big Mom beat one like nothing.
Zoan users have high resistance and he wasn't able to stomp them, which to me, says they're close enough to equal strength. As for them taking turns, that wasn't because they were worn out but because of the set up of Zou, with one ruling the night and the other the day.
When someone dives in from 10KM and gets up without a scratch and then you have Oda present him as unkillable then yeah he isn't not supposed to be scratched by those guys. And the point is also that Kaido didn't instantly beat them which makes them look even worse. He just started worororing instead of fighting. Where is the guy that Doflamingo was terrified off ? Where is the guy that mentally wrecked Moriah ? Where is that guy that just breaks the wills of others ? I neither see the WSC nor do I see this monster of a man as he was supposed to be.
I said it already, but Oda didn't present him as unkillable, just extremely hard to kill + the fact that his death had been attempted a lot. If he wanted to imply he was immortal or unkillable, he would have said so. As for the guy Doffy was afraid of, a weaker Luffy who was able to beat Doffy (and could conceivably beat Moria) went down in one hit from Kaido. I think their fear is warranted. We've seen how he breaks wills through Killer and grandpa Hyo.
How did she not look like a clown ? I really want to hear your opinion.
I don't have much to say about it until we see what happens next chapter. It's a cool moment for Brook and Franky at her expense and she definitely looks silly, but I don't think that's character assassinating. It certainly appears to be like Slapstick, though, which I understand how anyone might not like, but it just doesn't bother me unless the attack really damages her. If she's legitimately hurt from it, then that's a consistency issue.