I really hope America can become what it was always presented as. I think we're shit now, but we have the potential to be great. Maybe in the next presidential election we can start moving forward, but I just don't have any faith in this country or it's people anymore.
American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed
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We've had some great moments in our history, we're just so very not that America right now.
As we've said many a time in the last few years, our Founding Fathers are spinning at 500rpm in their graves right now. Fuck, every dead president is spinning in his grave right now.
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America certainly has its high points but its also got a history loaded with wars (including the civil one) and going around messing up lots of other countries. Lots of religious zealotry and racism in there too.
All the while having terrible education, health care, and other public programs that other first world countries nailed ages ago.
Yeah we're okay but we also put monsters in charge every 8 years instead of actually consistently moving forward.
During the Boomer generation, I think it was fair to say we were the greatest. Endless prosperity and expansion and technological improvement and civil rights, but now not a single minimum wage job in the country covers rent on a 1 room apartment, let alone groceries.
The American dream of "everyone can be rich, capitalism is great" screwed us along the way when we let the REALLY rich people start being dragons that horded all the wealth and killed the middle class.
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@The:
. I think we're shit now, but we have the potential to be great.
Isn't that basically what Trump has been saying that got him elected?
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Isn't that basically what Trump has been saying that got him elected?
No, Trump has been saying "weren't the days when we could be openly racist better?" His idea of making America great "again" is sending it backwards, not forward.
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Well the pendulum always swings back eventually. Guess alot of us just forgot about that and here we are in autocrat land. In other related news Chinas amabassador essentially used a mafia threat on our culture minister. He essentially said it would be a shame if something bad were to happen due to this prize ceremony being held by like the press association and that we should perhaps consider how safe we can afford to be feeling. And when the reporter asked what consequences he was alluding to he said - oh i think you are clever enough to understand what i mean. I'l take Trumps rambling senility and narccism over the communist partys thugs any day of the week.
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I think pretty much any praise you give to the United States prior to the Civil Rights Movement should be marked with a big asterisk that says, "Yeah, but a large portion of the population was still treating black people like animals, and the government openly condoned it."
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Well the pendulum always swings back eventually. Guess alot of us just forgot about that and here we are in autocrat land. In other related news Chinas amabassador essentially used a mafia threat on our culture minister. He essentially said it would be a shame if something bad were to happen due to this prize ceremony being held by like the press association and that we should perhaps consider how safe we can afford to be feeling. And when the reporter asked what consequences he was alluding to he said - oh i think you are clever enough to understand what i mean. I'l take Trumps rambling senility and narccism over the communist partys thugs any day of the week.
I read an article somewhere stating that Sweden doesn't intend to back down. At least some countries have a backbone.
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Also, every single Republican and Democrat president before then needs an asterik too. "These parties switched on basically everything when civil rights happened. Lincoln would be a democrat."
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I was going to give world war two as the prime example of when we were the good guys, but then I remembered we had concentration camps of our own…and also we nuked two cities full of civilians...
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I read an article somewhere stating that Sweden doesn't intend to back down. At least some countries have a backbone.
Oh yeah no if his intent wasn't to solidify anti-chinese sentiments he has failed miserably. The whole public mind just went fuck that guy and now what was essentially a no-name who cares event is now a household name and rallying point. The foot shooting is strong in that one.
@The:
I was going to give world war two as the prime example of when we were the good guys, but then I remembered we had concentration camps of our own…and also we nuked two cities full of civilians...
No nation has ever been the good guy, it has always been a mixed bag, but at certain points the scale tips more on the better side and other times at the worse. Most of the time it is just sort of middling with certain issues sticking out
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America certainly has its high points but its also got a history loaded with wars (including the civil one) and going around messing up lots of other countries. Lots of religious zealotry and racism in there too.
All the while having terrible education, health care, and other public programs that other first world countries nailed ages ago.
Yeah we're okay but we also put monsters in charge every 8 years instead of actually consistently moving forward.
During the Boomer generation, I think it was fair to say we were the greatest. Endless prosperity and expansion and technological improvement and civil rights, but now not a single minimum wage job in the country covers rent on a 1 room apartment, let alone groceries.
The American dream of "everyone can be rich, capitalism is great" screwed us along the way when we let the REALLY rich people start being dragons that horded all the wealth and killed the middle class.
Even during the boomer years, while things at home my have been cozy, its still worth noting that America was still actively participating and screwing over other countries and causing an untold amount of suffering outside its borders(like, in the 50's, the CIA helped a coup in Iran).
Speaking of screwing over other countries, how many people are familiar with the coup that just went on in Bolivia? Thus far, the interim government has called the arrest of elected legislators, pretty unambiguously revealed a hit list of journalists who are going to be targeted, and estimates suggests that over 30 protesters have been killed by the military, with the interim government pretty much allowing soldiers to kill protesters indiscriminately without fear of prosecution. All the while, the US has supported the coup government as a "win for democracy", just like Pinochet was for Chile.
And worse yet, I have seen fairly minimal media coverage of any of this…
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Even Ken Starr is saying that Sondland's testimony is so damaging that the GOP needs to consider throwing Trump under the bus. On Fox News no less.
@Cyan:
The turkey Trump will pardon this year will be a notorious war criminal.
It'll be a bird named Donald J. Trump so he can claim that people publicly accepted the validity of Donald pardoning himself.
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I think pretty much any praise you give to the United States prior to the Civil Rights Movement should be marked with a big asterisk that says, "Yeah, but a large portion of the population was still treating black people like animals, and the government openly condoned it."
I mean segregation existed even in the U.S. military so they didn't just condone it they engaged in it.
And then there's the whole thing with japanese-american or japanese immigrants being thrown into interment camps (many of whom had their property given away or outright destroyed).
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@Cyan:
The turkey Trump will pardon this year will be a notorious war criminal.
Well he did have Turkey's President at the White House recently.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/11/20/day-1035/
Day 1035: "At the express direction of the president of the United States."
1/ The U.S. ambassador to the European Union testified that he and senior administration officials "followed the president's orders" to work with Rudy Giuliani to pressure Ukraine into announcing investigations into Joe Biden and the discredited conspiracy theory that the country helped Democrats in the 2016 election. Gordon Sondland testified that he, Energy Secretary Rick Perry, and special envoy Kurt Volker coordinated with Giuliani at the "at the express direction of the president of the United States" to pressure Ukraine into launching the investigations. Sondland also said he directly communicated the "quid pro quo" arrangement to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Additionally, Sondland provided House impeachment investigators with emails and texts showing that acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Perry, and others were all aware that Trump conditioned a White House meeting for Zelensky on his willingness to launch the investigations. "They knew what we were doing and why," Sondland said. "Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret." (New York Times / Washington Post / Politico / Wall Street Journal / NBC News / Bloomberg / CNN
[emoji187] Quotables: Gordon Sondland.
"Again, everyone was in the loop."
"Was there a quid pro quo? … YES."
"… we knew these investigations were important to the president."
"… we followed the president's orders."
"I followed the directions of the president."
ANALYSIS: 4 things we learned from Gordon Sondland
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/us/politics/sondland-statement.html
ANALYSIS: 5 takeaways from Gordon Sondland's testimony
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/20/politics/gordon-sondland-hearing-takeaways/index.html
READ: Gordon Sondland's opening statement
Live blogs: New York Times / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / Bloomberg / NBC News / CNN
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/us/politics/impeachment-hearings.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/impeachment-hearings-live-updates/2019/11/20/66ec806a-0b20-11ea-8397-a955cd542d00_story.html
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/gordon-sondland-testifies-impeachment
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-20/sondland-to-be-questioned-on-call-with-trump-impeachment-update
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/live-blog/nov-20-impeachment-hearings-live-updates-n1086301
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/impeachment-hearing-11-20-19/index.html2/ Sondland testified that he told Pence before his Sept. 1 meeting with Zelensky that he "had concerns that the delay in aid had become tied to the issue of investigations." Sondland said Pence "nodded" in response, but didn't ask what investigations he was referring to. When Zelensky raised the issue of security aid, Pence said he would speak to Trump about it. Pence's chief of staff, Marc Short, later claimed Pence "never had a conversation with Gordon Sondland about investigating the Bidens, Burisma, or the conditional release of financial aid to Ukraine based upon potential investigations." (CNN / Bloomberg / Wall Street Journal)
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/20/politics/public-impeachment-hearing-day-4/index.html
3/ Sondland testified that he kept Secretary of State Michael Pompeo informed of the key developments in the campaign to pressure Zelensky into appeasing Trump and announcing investigations. Sondland and Pompeo discussed drafting a statement in mid-August regarding Zelensky's public commitment to investigate Biden, which they hoped would persuade Trump to grant Zelensky an Oval Office meeting and "break the logjam" on providing the security funds. Pompeo expressed approval of the plan. Trump, however, canceled his trip to Poland. (New York Times / Bloomberg)
4/ The FBI asked to interview the CIA whistleblower over concerns with the Justice Department declining to investigate the complaint after a criminal referral was sent from the inspector general of the Intelligence Community. In late September, the Justice Department confirmed that the assistant attorney general – a Trump appointee – had reviewed the whistleblower's complaint and determined there was no violation of campaign finance laws by Trump when he asked Zelensky to open an investigation into the gas company that once paid Hunter Biden to serve on its board. FBI counterintelligence officials were particularly concerned about the claims that Rudy Giuliani, Igor Fruman, and Lev Parnas may have been manipulated by Russian interests. The whistleblower has not yet agreed to an interview. (Yahoo News / NBC News / CNN)
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fbi-seeks-interview-whistleblower-n1086691
5/ Trump described Sondland's testimony as "fantastic" and said it proves he "did absolutely nothing wrong." Trump also attempted to distance his relationship with Sondland, saying "I don't know him very well. I have not spoken to him much." Last month, Trump called Sondland – who contributed $1 million to Trump's inaugural committee – "a really good man and great American." Two weeks ago, Trump claimed to "hardly know the gentleman." (Washington Post / Politico / NBC News)
What's happening now: Laura Cooper, a deputy assistant defense secretary, and David Hale, the under secretary of state for political affairs, are testifying to the House Intelligence Committee. Information about their testimony will be included in tomorrow's edition.
Notables.
The Trump administration distributed talking points to discredit Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, who testified that he had registered complaints about Trump's call with the Ukraine president. White House aide Julia Hahn sent two emails to Trump surrogates questioning Vindman's credibility and claiming Trump did "nothing wrong." The Army, meanwhile, has increased their protection around Vindman and his family following the threats. (Daily Beast / ABC News / Reuters)In 2017, Nikki Haley lost her password for a classified communication system, so she used a system meant for unclassified material to send "confidential" information. (Daily Beast)
The DemDebate starts tonight at 9 p.m. ET and will stream on MSNBC and the Washington Post. The Democrats who qualified based on polling and fundraising are: Joe Biden, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Tulsi Gabbard, Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar, Bernie Sanders, Tom Steyer, Elizabeth Warren, and Andrew Yang. Rachel Maddow, Andrea Mitchell, Ashley Parker, and Kristen Welker will become the third ever all-female moderator lineup.
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@The:
We shouldn't be leading anything anyway. I used to think the U.S was the greatest country on earth…and then I grew up. We're actually pretty shit compared to the rest of the first world countries.
It’s just as naive to think that the US is particularly bad as a country compared to any other country as it is to think that it’s the best. The truth is that people aren’t perfect, and no country can claim to be perfect either. Wherever you look in society, you will find flaws. It’s childish to get petulant about it, much more mature to simply decide to be the better part of your nature and do your best to have a beneficial impact on the world.
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It’s just as naive to think that the US is particularly bad as a country compared to any other country as it is to think that it’s the best. The truth is that people aren’t perfect, and no country can claim to be perfect either. Wherever you look in society, you will find flaws. It’s childish to get petulant about it, much more mature to simply decide to be the better part of your nature and do your best to have a beneficial impact on the world.
Yes, the U.S with it's crumbling infrastructure, mass shooting epidemic, ass backward political system, rapacious healthcare, illegal wars of aggression, and a wealth hoarding upper upper class is such a swell place. Well at least I can shit talk my country without fear of being silenced. So there's that at least, lol.
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I think, Sondland was the best witness FOR Trump. The others were too but Sondland made it very clear. So it is kinda obvious that i laugh at MSM and Schiff whom spin, lie and exaggerate all day long…well for 3 years now. But i am glad that people are smart and know that.
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I think, Sondland was the best witness FOR Trump. The others were too but Sondland made it very clear. So it is kinda obvious that i laugh at MSM and Schiff whom spin, lie and exaggerate all day long…well for 3 years now. But i am glad that people are smart and know that.
Hey man, haven't seen you around here in a while. How've you been?
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@The:
Yes, the U.S with it's crumbling infrastructure, mass shooting epidemic, ass backward political system, rapacious healthcare, illegal wars of aggression, and a wealth hoarding upper upper class is such a swell place. Well at least I can shit talk my country without fear of being silenced. So there's that at least, lol.
Hurts so good:ninja:
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@The:
Huh? I don't understand what you're getting at?
The feeling that so much is screwed up in our country yet we can say whatever we want about the government and the President without fear, but at the same time realizing our country is not in a great place but at least we aren't North Korean citizens or something.
I think.
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Actually it's the the stuff he said about the U.S. being true. Painfully cripplingly true.
But its good snark too.
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And then there's the whole thing with japanese-american or japanese immigrants being thrown into interment camps (many of whom had their property given away or outright destroyed).
We at least drew the line when it came to we didn't starve, gas, torture, or experiment on them. Not many things can beat Nazis.
The fact that we have Neo-Nazis IN this country right now is the scary part.
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I thought you were just shitting on me for being an American or something.
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We at least drew the line when it came to we didn't starve, gas, torture, or experiment on them. Not many things can beat Nazis.
Don't need to beat them when you can be just as shitty as them which is what Russia, Japan, Italy during that period were all about.
@The:
I thought you were just shitting on me for being an American or something.
I only shit on other Americans who're willingly ignorant to the problems and negative history we're known for. And think that if minorities, women,muslims, & the mean gays stop rightfully complaining about specific things everything will magically be better.
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Why don't minorities and women just pick themselves up by their bootstraps and get a better life? I mean gosh, it worked for all the billionaires didn't it? Such lazy assholes. I mean I, as a heterosexual white male have never personally experienced bigotry and discrimination therefore they don't exist, right?
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@The:
I mean I, as a heterosexual white male have never personally experienced bigotry and discrimination therefore they don't exist, right?
You're calling me a racist for agreeing with or making racist comments? How dare you, you're the true racist.
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You're calling me a racist for agreeing with or making racist comments? How dare you, you're the true racist.
There were very fine people on both sides. KKK? Never heard of 'em.
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We at least drew the line when it came to we didn't starve, gas, torture, or experiment on them. Not many things can beat Nazis.
No, but the Japanese who were interned in those camps had to deal with less than sanitary conditions which can be a hell in of itself.
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The most effective piece of media I've consumed about the Japanese internments is "Kenji" by Fort Minor.
Mike Shinoda (of Linkin Park fame) wrote lyrics about the internment of his grandfather,
and also included periodic soundbytes from interviews with Japanese people.!
It always chokes me up a little by the end.
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Trump signs his ONE good law:
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/25/782842651/trump-signs-law-making-cruelty-to-animals-a-federal-crime?utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1ZMnYlLzahegOnZzbF0XrV-bo_j-HSmPuLvUW0RDjF0FuVklglwH_K9f4Because any law that punishes animal abuse is a good law. Although now my (usually smart) co-worker will support him more because of it. sigh
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Weird he's okay with soldiers that commit war crimes, assholes who engage in racial profiling and commit perjury involving said racial profiling, deluded morons who trespass on government owned land.
But people who abuse animals? That's too much.
Made all the more ironic by the fact that his administration has rolled back on protections for certain animals.
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He didn't come up with the law or push it or endorse it, he just signed it after it actually got through a bipartisan committee.
He'll sign anything you put in front of him, he won't even read it because his eyesight is clearly incredibly bad but he refuses to do glasses.
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He didn't come up with the law or push it or endorse it, he just signed it after it actually got through a bipartisan committee.
He'll sign anything you put in front of him, he won't even read it because his eyesight is clearly incredibly bad but he refuses to do glasses.
Every time they put a bill in front of him, they just tell him its for free hamburgers in the White House.
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I'm sure you could put a resignation letter in front of him, tell him it was something else, and he'd sign it.
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I wonder what horrifying crimes those two turkeys that Trump pardoned have commited? :wassat:
Speaking of Trump, more information has some out that Trump knew about a whistle blower complaint, confirming he knew what he was doing was wrong for the umpteenth time.
I'm aware the Senate is still the issue, but the case being made is staggering and more seems like it'll come out between Giuliani and his relations.
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Trump is at one of his hate rallies in Florida and is claiming the media widely reported that he'd had a massive heart attack. Second heart he's randomly brought up heart attacks since his "physical".
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^Can we trust that's an indirect confession? He may be protesting too much, again.
I also caught he claimed he pardoned those three war criminals to "save them from the deep state." It's egregious, and I hope someone attacks Trump on this in particular. He's spreading conspiracy and defending one man who shot civilians.
I might check the talking points on this later. After the impeachment inquiry, the rally seems badly timed but I doubt Trump can help it.
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Pretty much, I think a few foreign news services initially reported Trump having chest pains but the local media pretty much immediately accepted the fairly nonsensical physical excuse.
He's also apparently planning on using Gallagher as a campaign prop so that pardon was pretty much because he saw somebody touting it on Fox News and knew he'd have a willing stooge to cooperate with him. Likely the whole reason Trump got mad at the idea of Gallagher losing his SEAL status would be because Donnie wanted to trot him out on stage while talking up that status.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Utah is about to become the nineteenth state to ban conversion "therapy".
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Texas Republicans are idiots and emailed their 2020 electoral strategy to the Democrats:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-gop-accidentally-emails-democrats-211312545.html?.tsrc=fauxdalEither Trump's idiocy is spreading or there's an awesome spy going around.
He didn't come up with the law or push it or endorse it, he just signed it after it actually got through a bipartisan committee.
He'll sign anything you put in front of him, he won't even read it because his eyesight is clearly incredibly bad but he refuses to do glasses.
Which makes it good that we got at least one good law out of it. (I don't see why he won't wear contacts though)
Utah is about to become the nineteenth state to ban conversion "therapy".
Good for you, Utah.
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Which makes it good that we got at least one good law out of it. (I don't see why he won't wear contacts though)
Vanity. That would mean admitting he doesn't have perfect eyes, even to himself.
Course between the wig he had stitched into his skull and the spray on tan…
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Good job, Utah. I'm so proud of you, sweety.
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They are probably the coolest of the red mid-western states.
Relatively speaking, of course.
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Don't know what the hell I was supposed to be saying here.
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Must've been really bad if you had to acknowledge it twice.
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Some stuff from today's developing What the Fuck Just Happened Today feed:
Trump knew about the existence of the whistleblower complaint when he decided to unfreeze military aid to Ukraine in September. Attorneys from the White House counsel's office told Trump about the complaint and said they were in the process of determining whether they were legally obligated to report the complaint to Congress. It is unclear how what level of detail about the complaint was given to Trump by the attorneys. Whistleblower complaints like the one in question are usually submitted to lawmakers with oversight of U.S. intelligence agencies, and the inspector general for the intelligence community suggested that the Trump administration hand it over. But White House counsel Pat Cipollone and his deputy John Eisenberg disagreed and said the Trump administration could withhold the complaint from Congress because they were protected by executive privilege. The Office of Legal Counsel ultimately agreed with Cipollone. (New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/26/us/politics/trump-whistle-blower-complaint-ukraine.html
Two officials at the White House Office of Management and Budget resigned earlier this year in part due to their concerns about Trump's decision to withhold military aid to Ukraine. Career OMB employee Mark Sandy told House investigators during a closed-door interview this month that one of the former OMB officials "expressed some frustrations about not understanding the reason for the hold" before stepping down in September. A second official working in the legal division of OMB offered a "dissenting opinion" over the legality of the hold before resigning shortly thereafter. Neither official has been identified, and it is unclear how closely their resignations were tied to the hold on U.S. military aid. (New York Times / Washington Post)
Trump denied telling Rudy Giuliani to go to Ukraine to dig up dirt on Trump's political rivals. When asked if he directed Giuliani to go to Ukraine, Trump denied giving the order. "No, I didn’t direct him," Trump said, "but he is a warrior, he is a warrior." Giuliani, however, has publicly admitted that he went to Ukraine on Trump's behalf to conduct an investigation "concerning 2016 Ukrainian collusion and corruption." Giuliani also said the investigation was carried out "solely as a defense attorney to defend my client against false charges." When asked what Giuliani was doing in Ukraine, Trump deferred to Giuliani and said, "Rudy has other clients, other than me." He added: "He's done a lot of work in Ukraine over the years." (Bloomberg)
poll/ 47% of U.S. adults say Trump should be impeached, while 40% say he shouldn't be. (Reuters)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-poll-idUSKBN1Y02MO
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Trump said, "but he is a warrior, he is a warrior."
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Didn't the booty warrior get paroled or something?
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Didn't the booty warrior get paroled or something?
I remember reading that he intentionally got arrested again just after he got out because according to him finding booty was easier in prison.
I'm not sure if this is true because I don't remember where I read it.