@Zar:
I'm wondering why.
With most terrorist attempts it feels like you get some idea of the motive early on, terrible as it is. Here I just can't understand what motive could be behind it. It makes no sense.
My wishes go to the victims and their relatives.
ISIS has claimed responsibility. The police say that there's no evidence to support their claim as of yet, but it does seem similar to their MO.
I'm feeling numb on this. I feel sorry for the victims, but don't feel I can do anything to help or change the situation. I decided to look up Nevada gun laws though, just out of curiosity. I'm just wondering if this will change anything. Supposedly after Sandy Hook, while the federal government didn't do anything, Connecticut's government did pass an assault weapon ban that was upheld by the courts. At this point, I'm fearing that was need a massacre in every city and state to change this situation.
According to the BBC, Nevada has some of the most lax gun laws of any state in the country. Open carry is allowed, even for assault rifles — the perpetrator allegedly had several of them at his room in the Mandalay Bay Hotel. There is no limit to the amount of ammunition that a person can buy at a time, which may have helped the shooter harm more people during the attack. Gun owners also don't have to be licensed with the government, meaning there was no way to potentially track the shooter's movements before the attack and prevent his actions. Ultimately, though, while looser than many states, Nevada isn't that far off from the nation's median state gun laws.
Edit: Also, I'm pretty sure ISIS is full of it. They claim credit these things to seem more powerful than they actually are.
Edit: Also, I'm pretty sure ISIS is full of it. They claim credit these things to seem more powerful than they actually are.
Yeah, but they're one of the few major possibilities. Based on the targets, it feels like another crazed Bernie Bro, but the level of planning and sheer financial investment are indicative of a larger terrorist group.
The guy had to have spent a big chunk of his life savings on this if he didn't have help.
Yeah, but they're one of the few major possibilities. Based on the targets, it feels like another crazed Bernie Bro, but the level of planning and sheer financial investment are indicative of a larger terrorist group.
The guy had to have spent his life savings on this, if he didn't get help.
Fair enough, though unless he is in a group, I hardly care about motive. I'm more than willing to accept that this guy is crazy, though I'm not saying we shouldn't research the reason as well.
Also, Alex Jones is saying something stupid on this, which I won't repeat and defenselessly say I heard secondhand. While I'm sure explaining this is explaining how we need air to breath, I just want to point out that Alex Jones is still the same jackass he was yesterday. On that note, I'm wondering who else will screw up the response to this. There's a long list of possibilities here.
Fair enough, though unless he is in a group, I hardly care about motive. I'm more than willing to accept that this guy is crazy, though I'm not saying we shouldn't research the reason as well.
Also, Alex Jones is saying something stupid on this, which I won't repeat and defenselessly say I heard secondhand. While I'm sure explaining this is explaining how we need air to breath, I just want to point out that Alex Jones is still the same jackass he was yesterday. On that note, I'm wondering who else will screw up the response to this. There's a long list of possibilities here.
Everything is a "false flag" to him. I don't think his audience (the few who take him seriously) even know what that means (is he claiming that Trump is behind this?).
Yeah, but they're one of the few major possibilities. Based on the targets, it feels like another crazed Bernie Bro, but the level of planning and sheer financial investment are indicative of a larger terrorist group.
The guy had to have spent a big chunk of his life savings on this if he didn't have help.
I don't know. Seeing how the suspect is over 60 years old and has no criminal record at all, it doesn't feel like it. The link mentions that he lived close to some standoff between ultra-conservative cowboys and the government, which would possibly make him some ultra-conservative or right wing nut. But if that's the case, why'd he fire at a country festival? But that's all based on stereotypes so you never know.
But I agree that he probably got help with all those weapons and the planning. It doesn't feel like the act of a lone wolf.
@Monkey:
No it doesn't .
Admittedly it's sheer speculation based on the whole "country music fans are generally right-wing" stereotype.
@Zar:
I don't know. Seeing how the suspect is over 60 years old and has no criminal record at all, it doesn't feel like it. The link mentions that he lived close to some standoff between ultra-conservative cowboys and the government, which would possibly make him some ultra-conservative or right wing nut. But if that's the case, why'd he fire at a country festival? But that's all based on stereotypes so you never know.
But I agree that he probably got help with all those weapons and the planning. It doesn't feel like the act of a lone wolf.
He could be a left-winger who was enraged by that standoff, but I don't really believe that. It's hard to imagine him pulling this all off on his own, and Antifa have never even used guns to my knowledge.
What other possibilities are there besides ISIS?
Well you've cracked the case, guess it has to be ISIS.
CNN put together a list of what we know about the shooter. It's not much, but he has a history of gun ownership and wasn't in the military.
@Monkey:
Well you've cracked the case, guess it has to be ISIS.
It was a serious question.
Can we not do this? We'll probably find out something about his motive within the next day so picking fights over random speculation is just unnecessary. This isn't a spoilers thread.
If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-attack-stephen-paddock-trnd/index.html
They've gotten interviews with the family now, in this case his brother. I feel sorry for him, this must be devastating in a way that few of us will every know.
Can we not do this? We'll probably find out something about his motive within the next day so picking fights over random speculation is just unnecessary. This isn't a spoilers thread.
I agree, random groundless overconfident conclusions are unnecessary.
Such a devastating tragedy. The death toll continues to climb, too.
ISIS is like that one kid in class that does nothing in the group project but takes all the credit anyway.
Can we not do this? We'll probably find out something about his motive within the next day so picking fights over random speculation is just unnecessary. This isn't a spoilers thread.
Sorry, I'll try to tone it down.
With Trump in office I'm pretty antsy about what this means for current and future politics, and also scared about possible future attacks. My parents stayed at the Luxor hotel next door not that long ago, so they could have been victims too. :/
If the government didn't do anything after Sandy Hook they're probably not going to do anything again. Didn't they also say they were going to loosen gun laws a few months ago? They don't give a shit.
They're going to vote on making it easier to get silencers this week.
This is unusual. Terrorists are usually wayyyyy younger
Also the guy has committed suicide, which is something the ISIS guys never do (except in prison, or with a bomb).
This is unusual. Terrorists are usually wayyyyy younger
Also the guy has committed suicide, which is something the ISIS guys never do (except in prison, or with a bomb).
He isn't an Isis member. He's an old, white dude who shot up a country concert. It's quite a perplexing scenario.
Edit: also reading through comment sections and social media right now is akin to getting braincancer. Like godfucking damnit, is there nobody anywhere who isn't crying "FAALLSEFFLLAAAGTOOTTTAAKEUUURRGUNZZ", "WHITE PRIVELEGE CAUSE IF HE WAS MUSLIM THEY WOULD CALL HIM TURRIRIST" or "LEFTIST LIBCUCK TURRIRIST TO KILL TRUMP SUPPORTERS"? Like where are the levelheaded people on the net? I know I've seen them before.
He isn't an Isis member. He's an old, white dude who shot up a country concert. It's quite a perplexing scenario.
ISIS said it was one of their own, and they never lied before (about this kind of thing).
ISIS said it was one of their own, and they never lied before (about this kind of thing).
They take responsibility for literally everything, where have you been at dude?
They take responsibility for literally everything, where have you been at dude?
T.h.e.y. n.e.v.e.r. l.i.e.d. b.e.f.o.r.e.
Whatever, just show me this one time when they lied about one of their attacks.
ISIS said it was one of their own, and they never lied before (about this kind of thing).
Oppositeofreality.txt
It's annoying that the media does it's usual thing. The asian woman who was a person of interest had her picture plastered everywhere and she wasn't even in the country. But I knew the guy was white cause they waited some time to post his picture.
White guys are never ever painted as being part of a group. It's always a lone wolf shooter narrative. Because even though 99% of mass shooting are caused by white men they rarely get properly labeled as a terrorist.
Isis is not trustworthy. They just want to stay relevant and or create confusion.
They're going to vote on making it easier to get silencers this week.
"They're not silencers, they're suppressors and they don't reduce the noise level of a fired gun by much #pleasedoresearch/#ilovesemantics"
God people are so full of shit. Oh in case anyone wants to smash their heads against the wall at the comments too
White guys are never ever painted as being part of a group. It's always a lone wolf shooter narrative. Because even though 99% of mass shooting are caused by white men they rarely get properly labeled as a terrorist.
Because they rarely ever are politically motivated. Columbine didn't happen because they were upset about school reforms. It may be thrown around a lot in a confusing way, but unless your motive is political you're not a terrorist even if you kill 10.000 people with nerve gas.
Jesus christ, The Onion, too soon. This is too real to be funny.
http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-prevent-says-only-nation-where-regularly-ha-57086
!
ISIS takes credit when my check engine light turns on.
T.h.e.y. n.e.v.e.r. l.i.e.d. b.e.f.o.r.e.
Whatever, just show me this one time when they lied about one of their attacks.
[Isis claims an attack on a casino in Philippines, but it's more likely it was debt related
C](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/02/manila-casino-attack-philippines)laims evacuation from Paris Airport was due to them smuggling in explosions, was really a 50-year old woman making threats because her ticket wasn't valid.
When ISIS is involved it's usually more up front, with the terrorist diving straight into a crowd and start shooting/stabbing/etc until they're killed or bombs going off. Of course it's still possible they're behind this one too, but most likely they just want to claim the deadliest shooting in US history as their work.
It's annoying that the media does it's usual thing. The asian woman who was a person of interest had her picture plastered everywhere and she wasn't even in the country. But I knew the guy was white cause they waited some time to post his picture.
White guys are never ever painted as being part of a group. It's always a lone wolf shooter narrative. Because even though 99% of mass shooting are caused by white men they rarely get properly labeled as a terrorist.
Isis is not trustworthy. They just want to stay relevant and or create confusion.
What about all the people speculating that he could've been with ISIS or Antifa or the Nazis?
Nobody's really sure that this one is a lone wolf.
Orlando shooter.
You basically just have to say "I pledge allegiance to ISIS" (or something like that) to be part of ISIS.
You don't have to do the whole trip to Syria to get in the group.
But whatever, let's put it like this : every single time ISIS said they were behind an attack, it turned out that the motives (of the guy who did the attack ) were Islamic terrorism.
This all happened less than 10 miles from where I live. It's so heartbreaking to think of people I go to work or church with, kids I teach, that may have lost someone last night…
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Jesus christ, The Onion, too soon. This is too real to be funny.
http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-prevent-says-only-nation-where-regularly-ha-57086
! [qimg]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/onemoment1985/Capture_zpsx9mfdbu8.png[/qimg]
It doesn't seem like it's suppose to be funny. It's dark and bitter and satirizes this ridiculous situation we're in where nothing ever changes about gun control.
What about all the people speculating that he could've been with ISIS or Antifa or the Nazis?
Nobody's really sure that this one is a lone wolf.
Basically what Zar posted. They aren't trustworthy. And for the most part when they make these claims it seems to be more about trying to make it look like they have a bigger reach than thgey actually do.
I haven't seen anyone say Antifa other than you. Also that's not what they do? So it seems even more like people trying to create a false narrative
I haven't seen the Nazi spin either cause why target a country show? Where there's far less likely to be minorities? And other people they stand against.
@Zar:
Isis claims an attack on a casino in Philippines, but it's more likely it was debt related
yeah okay, I hadn't heard about this one.
But I guess it's just "likely" that it is debt related. And it could be about money and terrorism at the same time you know. But whatever, it seems it happened 4months ago, I merely remember this attack to be honest.
Claims evacuation from Paris Airport was due to them smuggling in explosions, was really a 50-year old woman making threats because her ticket wasn't valid.
ISIS is not even mentioned in this article.
So we have absolutely no motive so far. No allegiance to Nazis, to Gun groups, to ISIS (other than their baseless claim), no criminal record, just a guy who rents a hotel near a music festival and shoots the whole place up, from what I've read. Only link to understanding what happened is his girlfriend, who might shed some light on just wtf the man was thinking.
From the looks of it, he just went completely insane. I mean, perhaps they'll uncover some sort of cult or obsession related reason for his actions, but it's really puzzling. As much as I despise ISIS, there's a logic behind their actions. When you see that a gay club got shot, it's easy to link that to homophobia and religious obsession. Even the guy in Norway who shot up the school was a convinced Nazi.
This guy? Nothing obvious that would make him do such a thing. Nothing at all.
yeah okay, I hadn't heard about this one.
But I guess it's just "likely" that it is debt related. And it could be about money and terrorism at the same time you know. But whatever, it seems it happened 4months ago, I merely remember this attack to be honest.ISIS is not even mentioned in this article.
Couldn't find an article where they mentioned both ISIS and the woman, but there's plenty of separate articles.
Isis claims it:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-claim-charles-de-gaulle-11221466
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-claim-they-planted-bombs-charles-de-gaulle-airport-leading-evacuation-uk-bound-jet-1640509
https://www.infowars.com/isis-claim-they-planted-bombs-in-charles-de-gaulle-airport-leading-to-evacuation-of-uk-bound-jet/
Who it actually was:
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/police-attend-security-incident-involving-british-airways-flight-in-paris/news-story/1d1cb519bbd714a3df7b002a013d4074
http://www.cetusnews.com/news/BA–terror-threat--at-Charles-de-Gaulle-Airport-in-Paris.ByPsx83sqb.html
But whatever, let's put it like this : every single time ISIS said they were behind an attack, it turned out that the motives (of the guy who did the attack ) were Islamic terrorism.
You obviously didn't read every post replying to you before you said this:
@Zar:
[Isis claims an attack on a casino in Philippines, but it's more likely it was debt related
C](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/02/manila-casino-attack-philippines)laims evacuation from Paris Airport was due to them smuggling in explosions, was really a 50-year old woman making threats because her ticket wasn't valid.
When ISIS is involved it's usually more up front, with the terrorist diving straight into a crowd and start shooting/stabbing/etc until they're killed or bombs going off. Of course it's still possible they're behind this one too, but most likely they just want to claim the deadliest shooting in US history as their work.
But sure, let's totes trust the mass murdering terrorist organization whose goal is to "terrorize" people (It's what a "terrorist" does) to be totally honest with us and to NEVER lie about committing a deadly act in order to further that whole "Terrorist" thing when literally nothing revealed yet about this guy says anything related to ISIS.
If they search his apartment and find ISIS Sympathetic writings or something, then we have something to go off of. Until then. Why don't we just disregard the word of the Terrorists.
What about all the people speculating that he could've been with ISIS or Antifa or the Nazis?
Nobody's really sure that this one is a lone wolf.
Really, everybody just wants to put their own political twist on this. Anybody blaming any one group without literally any information is just trying to vilify that group for political reasons.
The point Cyclone was making however is that whenever it's a person of color, it's always blamed on some supposed systemic problem in that community. If it's a Black Person? It's because of Gang culture. If it's a Muslim? It's automatically some form of terrorism regardless of any evidence. If it's a Mexican person? It's cartel or immigrant related.
When the dust settles here watch, he'll be considered a lone nut.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
So we have absolutely no motive so far. No allegiance to Nazis, to Gun groups, to ISIS, no criminal record, just a guy who rents a hotel near a music festival and shoots the whole place up, from what I've read. Only link to understanding what happened is his girlfriend, who might shed some light on just wtf the man was thinking.
From the looks of it, he just went completely insane. I mean, perhaps they'll uncover some sort of cult or obsession related reason for his actions, but it's really puzzling. As much as I despise ISIS, there's a logic behind their actions. When you see that a gay club got shot, it's easy to link that to homophobia and religious obsession. Even the guy in Sweden (or was it Iceland?) who shot up the school was a convinced Nazi.
This guy? Nothing obvious that would make him do such a thing. Nothing at all.
And it can't have been some random attack done out of sudden anger either. There was clearly preparation for this.
I've been seeing some news that he might've had some debt and that his father was some big-shot criminal, but I'll wait until bigger (slightly) more trustworthy news sites report on that.
There hasn't been any school shootings in Sweden as far as I remember (there has been a stabbing though, racially motivated). Maybe you're thinking of the 2011 attack in Norway, where the perpetrator was a right-wing extremist with ties to nazis.
@Zar:
I've been seeing some news that he might've had some debt and that his father was some big-shot criminal, but I'll wait until bigger (slightly) more trustworthy news sites report on that.
There hasn't been any school shootings in Sweden as far as I remember (there has been a stabbing though, racially motivated). Maybe you're thinking of the 2011 attack in Norway, where the perpetrator was a right-wing extremist with ties to nazis.
That's the one. I'll edit my post to not have others get confused by my inability to differentiate scandinavian countries :ninja:.
That's the one. I'll edit my post to not have others get confused by my inability to differentiate scandinavian countries :ninja:.
We're pretty similar so it's understandable. Besides, you try to ask me about important events in Iraq and Iran and I'll have to hide in embarrassment.
Tom Petty has been taken off life support after suffering cardiac arrest.
You obviously didn't read every post replying to you before you said this:
lol, you didn't read e.v.e.r.y. posts before replying too
Why don't we just disregard the word of the Terrorists.
Why should we ? When they say they did something, it usually turns out to be true. It's not like anyone here was saying the guy is a member of ISIS though. We're doubting–-- see, doubts. Because it's unusual.
But on the other hand, I guess that since it has happened in the US, we should wait a day or a week.
The point Cyclone was making however is that whenever it's a person of color, it's always blamed on some supposed systemic problem in that community. If it's a Black Person? It's because of Gang culture.
Like Chris Dorner, The DC Sniper and the Dallas Sniper were just chalked up to being gangmembers? Or are you just talking about violence commited by individuals in general, and not specifically this type of rampage tragedy? Because black people rarely ever do stuff like the latter and it is even more rarely viewed as just gang culture.
If it's a Muslim? It's automatically some form of terrorism regardless of any evidence.
out of all the mass shootings, stabbings, people being run over by trucks, how many of those individuals who happened to be muslims weren't in some way radicalised or affiliated with terrorgroups? I can think of one in Germany where an iranian who was a nationalist, stabbed a bunch of people. And it wasn't commonly referred to as a Muslim terror attack.
When the dust settles here watch, he'll be considered a lone nut.
Or a neo-nazi, or an antifa member, or whatever comes out.
I really am not trying to come of as snide here. Schoolshooters, people who shoot up cinemas, malls etc just are a different type of murderers than gangbangers and terrorists. And that goes for amongst white people too. Nobody think Russian mobsters, British football hooligans, bikers, the IRA, chavs or any other variety of white person expressing anti social behaviour are even remotely similar to the insane lone wolf characters who shoot up civilians they've never met.
Are Antifas being taken seriously now ?
Basically what Zar posted. They aren't trustworthy. And for the most part when they make these claims it seems to be more about trying to make it look like they have a bigger reach than thgey actually do.
I haven't seen anyone say Antifa other than you. Also that's not what they do? So it seems even more like people trying to create a false narrative
I haven't seen the Nazi spin either cause why target a country show? Where there's far less likely to be minorities? And other people they stand against.
It's definitely not trustworthy since everything is speculation right now, but my post was in response to this:
White guys are never ever painted as being part of a group. It's always a lone wolf shooter narrative. Because even though 99% of mass shooting are caused by white men they rarely get properly labeled as a terrorist.
I've heard several media outlets today claim that he was with ISIS, factual or not.
The point Cyclone was making however is that whenever it's a person of color, it's always blamed on some supposed systemic problem in that community. If it's a Black Person? It's because of Gang culture. If it's a Muslim? It's automatically some form of terrorism regardless of any evidence. If it's a Mexican person? It's cartel or immigrant related.
When the dust settles here watch, he'll be considered a lone nut.
I get the point, but it's strange to make a generalized complaint in response to media coverage that doesn't follow your claim.
Edit: also, I feel the need to point out that every time something like this in New York happens, it's "terrorism" regardless of race.
Hispanic guy gets high and runs people over? Terrorism.
White guy jumps in front of a train and kills himself? Terrorism.
Black guy robs a Toys R Us? Terrorism.
Other areas almost certainly don't do that, so I suspect each state has its own patchwork of bigotry and assumptions sewn with local thread.
Literally just heard the news.
That's fucking terrifying and heartbreaking. And the worst part is nothing will probably change.
It's definitely not trustworthy since everything is speculation right now, but my post was in response to this:
I've heard several media outlets today claim that he was with ISIS, factual or not.
I get the point, but it's strange to make a generalized complaint in response to media coverage that doesn't follow your claim.
Edit: also, I feel the need to point out that every time something like this in New York happens, it's "terrorism" regardless of race.
Hispanic guy gets high and runs people over? Terrorism.
White guy jumps in front of a train and kills himself? Terrorism.
Black guy robs a Toys R Us? Terrorism.Other areas almost certainly don't do that, so I suspect each state has its own patchwork of bigotry and assumptions sewn with local thread.
Your examples seem to be outside the norm. Look at how the No DAPL water protectors was handled versus that group of white guys who were armed and hold up on federal land.
I can't even recall the last time the press or authorities called a white guy shooter that made national news an actual terrorist. While brown people are typically somehow part of a while group so more of us are looked at as suspect. While in the case of a white guy it's an isolated incident and they get paired with headlines that talk about what a good person they were or some other bs. And they are never treated as a part of a larger problem. Even though most of us know that's not the case.
Worse was they splashed misleading headlines about the female roommate to make it seem she was a person of interest and she wasn't even in the states.
I'm just so tired of these crappy double standards. And trust me Robo. It's very common. Even looking at victimless crimes there's a disgusting trend.
