American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

onemoment

Wtf is this?!

U.K. joins U.S. ban on laptops on flights from Muslim-majority nations

The electronics ban affects flights from international airports to the U.S. from in Amman, Jordan; Kuwait City, Kuwait; Cairo; Istanbul; Jeddah and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia; Casablanca, Morocco; Doha, Qatar; and Dubai and Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates.

This feels like an assault on specific airlines which are transit hubs in the Middle East.

Worrisome. This seems like something that could backfire, at least in terms of public relations. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the end of it.

Meanwhile, in lighter news: Supreme Court limits president’s appointment powers. I feel this could have come sooner, but President Trump has another check on him thanks to the supreme court. Good luck filling those seats!

Robby

Man, when Trump is out, the next Democrat pres and the supreme court are going to pass so many laws to check the president's power that no one ever dreamed would be called for.

Rogues' Gallery

@Robby:

Man, when Trump is out, the next Democrat pres and the supreme court are going to pass so many laws to check the president's power that no one ever dreamed would be called for.

When cannot come soon enough.

Green_vs_Red

@Cyan:

It's not the environmental legislation that's killing coal jobs, it's the facts that mining companies are rapidly switching to automated mining and the coal industry isn't really profitable (arguably, it never was.)

I'd understand it not being profitable given I can't imagine many people in this day and age having need or use of coal but for that to be a problem back it's heyday?

@Robby:

Man, when Trump is out, the next Democrat pres and the supreme court are going to pass so many laws to check the president's power that no one ever dreamed would be called for.

Don't we need a democratic majority in the senate to ensure the Supreme Court is pack with less right leaning Justices to ensure that happens?

onemoment

Well, I just stumbled a scary story and I feel compelled to share it. U.S officials expect another missile launch soon. It's like they don't respect Trump or something.

Also, some good news! Proof these guys aren't completely tone deaf. Rex Tillerson decides not to do the stupid thing and reschedules NATO talks.

sgamer82

@onemoment:

Also, some good news! Proof these guys aren't completely tone deaf. Rex Tillerson decides not to do the stupid thing and reschedules NATO talks.

Keyword: Completely.

Ubiq

Josh Marshall sums up Trump's business dealings with Russians.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/donald-trump-goodfellas-edition

RoboBlue

@Robby:

Man, when Trump is out, the next Democrat pres and the supreme court are going to pass so many laws to check the president's power that no one ever dreamed would be called for.

Let's be sure to hold them to that.
When the ball's in their court, they keep forgetting to take the shot.

Satsuki

@Robby:

Man, when Trump is out, the next Democrat pres and the supreme court are going to pass so many laws to check the president's power that no one ever dreamed would be called for.

That's what we always end up doing. Republicans win, do their shit, then Democrats win and have to clean up all their shit. I shudder to think of how fast Trump is going to un-do all of Obama's hard work.

benjamminbrown

It's astonishing just how differently people can see things. First two posts on this page alone are hard to read in succession without a jarring sensation of cognitive dissonance.

sgamer82

Am I the only one who finds out disturbing that the Presidency seems to be more about undoing the last guy's stuff now? Trump is gunning for Obama's legacy while whoever succeeds Trump is going to need to undo as much of his damage as possible.

Ubiq

@sgamer82:

Am I the only one who finds out disturbing that the Presidency seems to be more about undoing the last guy's stuff now? Trump is gunning for Obama's legacy while whoever succeeds Trump is going to need to undo as much of his damage as possible.

Been that way for about half a century now; Democrats spend most of their time trying to fix Republican mistakes and incrementally improving things for the country as a whole and the GOP tries to tear it all back down the next time they get into power.

Reagan's entire domestic policy was basically "Destroy the Great Society".

Cyan D. Funk

@Ubiq:

Been that way for about half a century now; Democrats spend most of their time trying to fix Republican mistakes and incrementally improving things for the country as a whole and the GOP tries to tear it all back down the next time they get into power.

Reagan's entire domestic policy was basically "Destroy the Great Society".

Literally the single exception being Eisenhower not obliterating the New Deal like the Republicans wanted him to (thus allowing it to entrench itself into American everyday life during the Kennedy and Johnson years so Nixon couldn't axe it like he wished.)

Imagine if MacArthur accepted that nomination.

Monkey King

In the depths of my post-election despair I imagined the rising conservative dominance as slick operator evil geniuses calmly ascending the stairs of power, complete with intelligent smirks. With even the buffoonish Trump operating with a sort of sharp destructive madness like King Joffery.

Instead the modern Republicans/Trump in near absolute power has been

.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

The fact that Putin IS that sort of cold evil genius just makes this funnier. This was part of his plan too, except his American allies in crime turned out to be farting clowns endlessly slipping on banana peels and bonking each-other over the head with rubber fish.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

It's like someone cast a buddy movie with Mads Mikkelsen opposite Pauly Shore.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

Putin carefully sneaks up around the corner from the democracy gang's compound, his pistol raised, loaded, in his hand
a single bead of sweat rolls down his face as the moonlight glares down on his prey
Putin: On the count of three Trump, I want you to be ready, we will pounce when they change the guard. Are you prepared?

he turns around, whispering
Putin: Trump? Trump are you there?

there's a huge crash, and Trump comes careening out of nowhere on a golf cart, running over Putin and smashing into a wall, causing every alarm in the facility to go off
Trump: UH OH SPAGHETTIOS!!

Satsuki

I would think more like, "LEEEEERRROOOY JENKINS!!!"

Ubiq

The biggest obstacle to Republicans getting things done isn't the Democratic Party; that's because they'll just change the rules to get what they want if Democrats try anything.

No, the biggest obstacle to them is that the overwhelming majority of Republicans legit have no idea how to govern so they waste a ton of time on things that just plain imbecilic like "PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CARRY GUNS INTO BARS IF THEY WANT!", carving their initials into desks, airwalking dogs by holding them out of car windows, and crafting legislation that can't actually pass because not everybody in the legislature is a complete dumbass.

The real damage comes less from the bills they pass and more from things like cutting taxes and letting vital services wither away to nothing. Well, from the legislature anyway. The amount of damage that Trump (barring him starting a war) and a Republican Congress could do is a mote of dust compared to what the Judiciary can do.

sgamer82

@Ubiq:

The amount of damage that Trump (barring him starting a war) and a Republican Congress could do is a mote of dust compared to what the Judiciary can do.

How so? The Judicial Branch has been the one major bastion of sanity since this all began, striking down stuff like the Travel Ban(s), ruling against Gerrymandering, and dealing with at least 2/3 of the laws the NC tried to enact against the Executive the moment a Democrat won the governor's seat.

RoboBlue

@benjamminbrown:

It's astonishing just how differently people can see things. First two posts on this page alone are hard to read in succession without a jarring sensation of cognitive dissonance.

I agree with both of them (one being mine after all :P), but I should probably explain:

Robby's hoping that the Democrats will rush through everything they want/need to accomplish, and I subscribe to the more depressing view that they'll accomplish some great things but leave us a bit disappointed, feeling that way more could have happened.

Satsuki's view doesn't seem to be too far off from mine, since the Democrats tend to spend more time cleaning up Republican shit than they do accomplishing liberal goals.

@sgamer82:

Am I the only one who finds out disturbing that the Presidency seems to be more about undoing the last guy's stuff now? Trump is gunning for Obama's legacy while whoever succeeds Trump is going to need to undo as much of his damage as possible.

…beat me to it. Obama spent most of his time cleaning up after Bush, Bush reversing Clinton's accomplishments (the economy and reduced national debt), Clinton cleaning up after Reagan (Reaganomics), and that's as far back as I can remember.

Green_vs_Red

@sgamer82:

How so? The Judicial Branch has been the one major bastion of sanity since this all began, striking down stuff like the Travel Ban(s), ruling against Gerrymandering, and dealing with at least 2/3 of the laws the NC tried to enact against the Executive the moment a Democrat won the governor's seat.

The Supreme Court is about to have a 5-4 majority in favor of conservatives a majority that might turn to 6-3 if Ginsburg steps down. To say nothing of any federal judges Trump can appoint with a Senate Confirmation.

sgamer82

@Green_vs_Red:

The Supreme Court is about to have a 5-4 majority in favor of conservatives a majority that might turn to 6-3 if Ginsburg steps down. To say nothing of any federal judges Trump can appoint with a Senate Confirmation.

That same conservative majority voted 6-2 to limit the President's ability to put people into a major position as in "acting" role as a way around Senate confirmation (if I'm reading that right), while (iirc) one of the prominent judges in stopping the first Travel Ban was a Bush Sr appointee. I'm not as sure party lines are as set in stone with the judicial branch as they are elsewhere.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-limits-presidents-appointment-powers/2017/03/21/9c62cb82-0e48-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html

Green_vs_Red

Stopped Clock, they can still wind up making rulings that swing in the favor of Republicans.

sgamer82

@Green_vs_Red:

Stopped Clock, they can still wind up making rulings that swing in the favor of Republicans.

True, I'm not saying the party lines aren't there. Just that so far conservative judges haven't gone 100% "DEMOCRATS BAD!!" yet.

Green_vs_Red

@sgamer82:

True, I'm not saying the party lines aren't there. Just that so far conservative judges haven't gone 100% "DEMOCRATS BAD!!" yet.

Once Trump gets the gate they'll have plenty enough time to do that.

Kaiolino

Republicans regret Mattis' appointment because he's actually taking his job seriously.

Long John Silvers Rayleigh

@wolfwood:

I think whatever brand of nationalism that Jontron subscribes to is more of the sort that doesn't really go all clan member on individual interactions, like he could probably have a best friends that's Asian or whatever, but when it's a larger group of Asians that's when it becomes spooky scary and threatens his way of life.

There's a lot more racists like that than racists that hate everyone.

I couldnt count on one hand the amount of white people who have said some derivation of " there are black people and there are ******s" most of these people have black friends or get along with the black people they know at work but they'd never say that to their friends for obvious reasons but they dont like certain groups when they are too big. The vitriolically racist to any minority type they see has become the minority of most racists.

Jabberwok

@Kaiolino:

Republicans regret Mattis' appointment because he's actually taking his job seriously.

So Mattis was embraced as a moderating force, and is now pissing people off by actually being moderate.

sgamer82

https://secure.politico.com/story/2017/03/obamacare-repeal-mark-meadows-freedom-caucus-236314

Trump, GOP leaders lack votes to pass Obamacare repeal

With less than 48 hours to go before a vote, the president and senior House Republicans are scrambling to corral wayward members.

It's… weird to me that the success or failure of the American Health Care Act is dependent on Republicans in either a state of self preservation or so ideological that the ACHA doesn't undo enough for their tastes

Monkey King

@sgamer82:

https://secure.politico.com/story/2017/03/obamacare-repeal-mark-meadows-freedom-caucus-236314

Trump, GOP leaders lack votes to pass Obamacare repeal

With less than 48 hours to go before a vote, the president and senior House Republicans are scrambling to corral wayward members.

It's… weird to me that the success or failure of the American Health Care Act is dependent on Republicans in either a state of self preservation or so ideological that the ACHA doesn't undo enough for their tastes

This is going to be a huge disaster for Ryan or Trump, or both. Or all of the GOP.
I mean it already is, but when the SS Disastercare finally actually hits the iceberg, well…there's gonna be quite a show.

As per usual, Trump didn't even have to tie himself to this, he could have pivoted to "Well Congress has some ideas, so lets see how this works out.". But he had to stamp himself onto it and now lol. He is objectively an incredibly stupid person.

Ubiq

@sgamer82:

How so? The Judicial Branch has been the one major bastion of sanity since this all began, striking down stuff like the Travel Ban(s), ruling against Gerrymandering, and dealing with at least 2/3 of the laws the NC tried to enact against the Executive the moment a Democrat won the governor's seat.

The current makeup of the Supreme Court won't last forever and terrible SCOTUS members tend to be more conservative the more of them there are. Legislation can be struck down, terrible executives can be replaced, but terrible SCOTUS decisions can take decades to get rid of.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/nunes-trump-transition-team-incidental-intelligence-collection

To be picked up incidentally means that Trump's people contacted somebody already under surveillance.

Demon Rin

Well, Trump finally did it. The worst possible consequence of his presidency has come to pass.

After 32 years as an educator of children, Elmo has been fired.

RoboBlue

I called Peter King about Trumpcare today; he's considering voting against it as a result of all the complaints he's gotten.

CALL YOUR LOCAL CONGRESSMAN! WE CAN STOP THE OBAMACARE REPEAL!

Ubiq

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/schiff-statement-nunes-trump-surveillance-allegations

Whatever it was must have been really bad for Nunes to panic like this.

Really, when I think about it, it seems quite likely that Nunes himself was implicated in this and that's why he was tipped off in the first place.

Femme

Still pretty pissed about the electronics ban.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/electronics-banned-us-flights-middle-east-1.4033591

This is such a massive inconvenience you have no idea. What about parents who keep their toddlers entertained with an iPad? What about passengers who want to get work done during the flight? What about people with expensive DSLR cameras who want to keep them close? What about the risk of damage, theft, or loss of your checked luggage?

This is directly impacting me because I am planning to visit several of those cities this year which will have at least one connection to the US or the UK, and I won't want to put my laptop in checked luggage and neither will my husband.

Satsuki

@RoboBlue:

I called Peter King about Trumpcare today; he's considering voting against it as a result of all the complaints he's gotten.

CALL YOUR LOCAL CONGRESSMAN! WE CAN STOP THE OBAMACARE REPEAL!

I would, but my congresswoman is already against the repeal.

sgamer82

@Satsuki:

I would, but my congresswoman is already against the repeal.

You could call anyway. Tell them they're doing the right thing

Jabberwok

@Femme:

Still pretty pissed about the electronics ban.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/electronics-banned-us-flights-middle-east-1.4033591

This is such a massive inconvenience you have no idea. What about parents who keep their toddlers entertained with an iPad? What about passengers who want to get work done during the flight? What about people with expensive DSLR cameras who want to keep them close? What about the risk of damage, theft, or loss of your checked luggage?

This is directly impacting me because I am planning to visit several of those cities this year which will have at least one connection to the US or the UK, and I won't want to put my laptop in checked luggage and neither will my husband.

I would imagine that this electronics ban, given how weirdly specific it is in targeting specific airports, will be a fairly short term thing until either better countermeasures are adopted or the estimated threat subsides. Probably won't last more than a few months, especially given how annoyed people are by this.

Kaiolino

Democrats are still the dumbest fucking people alive exhibit 294.

They're willing to back Gorsuch on THE PROMISE FROM REPUBLICANS that they won't go nuclear for the next justice.

Ubiq

The GOP has a good shot at getting the Obamacare bill through the House by having the Senate remove coverage requirements for plans. So this means that insurers will be able to offer garbage plans that don't actually pay for any necessities but will let Republicans count those people as "insured".

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/ehb-obamacare-repeal-vote

sgamer82

@Ubiq:

The GOP has a good shot at getting the Obamacare bill through the House by having the Senate remove coverage requirements for plans. So this means that insurers will be able to offer garbage plans that don't actually pay for any necessities but will let Republicans count those people as "insured".

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/ehb-obamacare-repeal-vote

On the flip side, if the ACHA does fail to pass, there's apparently no Plan B

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-projects-confidence-ahead-of-health-care-vote-there-is-no-plan-b-200551565.html

On what could be the eve of a crucial health care vote and with the reported numbers still seemingly unfavorable, the White House remained confident that theAmerican Health Care Actwould pass the House on Thursday.

“Piece by piece, member by member, we’re getting there, and we’re getting much closer,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Wednesday of gathering the votes necessary to repeal Obamacare. “The last couple days, we’ve continued to do that, but today alone, a couple of the other members — slowly but surely we’re getting there. I feel confident when the votes come up, we’ll have the votes.”

He added: “There is no Plan B. There’s Plan A and Plan A. We’re going to get this done. That’s it, plain and simple.”

Jabberwok

The nuclear option is a double-edged sword and the Republicans would be stupid to use it. It's probably a bluff anyway, but there's pretty much nothing stopping the Republicans from blowing the whole process up if they wanted to, and bargaining now or later won't make a difference. Stupid thing to even contemplate.

In addition there news, there's apparently buzz about specific information of Trump campaign staff directly coordinating with Russia. Not sure of the details yet, but at minimum there's the threat of a cover-up that carries criminal charges.

sgamer82

@Jabberwok:

The nuclear option is a double-edged sword and the Republicans would be stupid to use it.

I am in no way confident that would stop them from trying.

Monkey King

You know Putin wants to phone in and give them tips on bullshitting effectively, but doing so right now is high risk in of itself. So he's just sitting in the Kremlin staring at the ceiling and making a deep sigh every once in awhile.

Robby

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/paul-manafort-putin-russian-work-secret-plan

Oh hey, Paul Manafort secretly worked to "greatly benefit" Vladimir Putin 10 years ago.

I'm shocked, no really, shocked I say.

Jabberwok

@Monkey:

You know Putin wants to phone in and give them tips on bullshitting effectively, but doing so right now is high risk in of itself. So he's just sitting in the Kremlin staring at the ceiling and making a deep sigh every once in awhile.

Putin grinds his teeth, steeples his fingers, and looks longingly at the blue pantsuit he has mounted on the wall next to a 12-point buck, wishing everyone were so predictable.

Femme

@Jabberwok:

I would imagine that this electronics ban, given how weirdly specific it is in targeting specific airports, will be a fairly short term thing until either better countermeasures are adopted or the estimated threat subsides. Probably won't last more than a few months, especially given how annoyed people are by this.

Keyword is "probably".

Strooger

This whole thing about Trump and Putin makes me wonder what's worse to have at your steering wheel: a hotblooded, incompetent moron, or a coldly, calculating evil genius.

onemoment

@Ubiq:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/schiff-statement-nunes-trump-surveillance-allegations

Whatever it was must have been really bad for Nunes to panic like this.

Really, when I think about it, it seems quite likely that Nunes himself was implicated in this and that's why he was tipped off in the first place.

I'm having trouble wrapping my head about this story, cause it sounds like Nunes did something really dumb, illegal, or both. What is the end game here?

Meanwhile, has a shoe dropped? I'm ready stories related to this and it sounds like Trump's team has been implicated in some more illegal activity. I didn't expect something like this so soon, but I'm looking forward to where this goes.

Kaiolino

@Strooger:

This whole thing about Trump and Putin makes me wonder what's worse to have at your steering wheel: a hotblooded, incompetent moron, or a coldly, calculating evil genius.

He's not that much of a genius considering the point was to have a delegitimized President Clinton instead of a totally unpredictable President Trump.

Monkey King

On the other hand Putin has given America our own Yeltsin, so maybe he gets off on that thought a bit. Like maybe he raises an eyebrow a bit and emits a sound sort of like "heh" from the sides of his mannequin face.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Kaiolino:

He's not that much of a genius considering the point was to have a delegitimized President Clinton instead of a totally unpredictable President Trump.

Also because this long game of weakening and balkanizing the west would just lead to a world where Russian and China became open rivals and competitors. Which would quickly make Vlad pretty nostalgic for the old days.

Ubiq

@onemoment:

I'm having trouble wrapping my head about this story, cause it sounds like Nunes did something really dumb, illegal, or both. What is the end game here?

It's definitely stupid and possibly illegal.

Far as the endgame, presumably Nunes went to the White House first to give them time to prepare a response when the larger news breaks. Well, that and also to let them warn some people. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if some of the people the FBI is doing surveillance on suddenly made themselves scarce or fled the country altogether.