well, hope Sanji will defeat his brothers and daddy alone. I don't want to see "mwogh save me Luffy !!! " from Sanji…
Chapter 840: "Iron Mask"
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well, hope Sanji will defeat his brothers and daddy alone. I don't want to see "mwogh save me Luffy !!! " from Sanji…
If Law couldn't get Doflamingo for himself, then I doubt Sanji's going to get that type of privilege either. For four whole people, especially.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
If Law couldn't get Doflamingo for himself, then I doubt Sanji's going to get that type of privilege either. For four whole people, especially.
if he does beat all of them(except maybe reiju,cos even is she is evil,i doubt sanji would beat her),i hope that at least it's not a 1on 4,but separate fights.
though IMO sanji will beat Ichiji and Niji,and maybe Brook or someone else will take Judge,as he may have some history with him.though thinking like that,luffy and the others will have to fight some of Big-Mom's people unless they are just spectators for the whole arc. -
If only Vegapunk had designed a battle smasher-esque limb replacement for Zeff.
Iron leg Zeff lol. Try threatening that dude.
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if he does beat all of them(except maybe reiju,cos even is she is evil,i doubt sanji would beat her),i hope that at least it's not a 1on 4,but separate fights.
though IMO sanji will beat Ichiji and Niji,and maybe Brook or someone else will take Judge,as he may have some history with him.though thinking like that,luffy and the others will have to fight some of Big-Mom's people unless they are just spectators for the whole arc.I can't imagine Luffy sitting out on fighting at least one of the people responsible for ruining one of his crewmate's lives. Since he does that, well, almost every single arc when he makes a friend. And I really can't see anybody else taking on Judge besides Sanji or Luffy, both thematic and power-wise. If anything, Nami, Brook, Chopper, and the Minks can fight Big Mom people (not that this answers how Big Mom's two remaining Sweet Commanders will be dealt with, but I don't think Big Mom will even get defeated this arc, so it probably won't have to come to that).
If only Vegapunk had designed a battle smasher-esque limb replacement for Zeff.
Iron leg Zeff lol. Try threatening that dude.
That's still not cooler than Shiki's sword legs. Now THOSE were the bee's knees.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
That's still not cooler than Shiki's sword legs. Now THOSE were the bee's knees.
Too unhygenic for kitchen work. A sturdy steampunk leg however, that's clean.
And you can't discipline people with kicks to the head when you got cutlery on your feet
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Too unhygenic for kitchen work. A sturdy steampunk leg however, that's clean.
This is indeed true.
And you can't discipline people with kicks to the head when you got cutlery on your feet.
But I think you're forgetting one of the key morals that the Baratie arc illustrated for us.
Many of the Baratie cooks utilize sharp weapons such as knives. Thus, they must be swordsman. They do not deserve the shame of being kicked, especially towards their backside.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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I imagine Luffy will fight Judge, by proxy of his victory being another eye-catcher in the news of "Straw Hat Luffy defeats the leader of the mythical evil army, Germa 66!", and what not.
Sanji will likely fight Ichiji, if not him and Niji at once, due to the theme of him always being weaker then his siblings, so kicking at least the big brother's ass should suffice there.
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@Count:
But I think you're forgetting one of the key morals that the Baratie arc illustrated for us.
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/WphyVtN.jpg[/qimg]
Many of the Baratie cooks utilize sharp weapons such as knives. Thus, they must be swordsman. They do not deserve the shame of being kicked, especially towards their backside.
Ah but you in turn forget that the main thing to take away from baratie was that men show love through insults and physical abuse. Abuse that goes from loving to deadly when it's delivered through a 12 inch blade.
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Ah but you in turn forget that the main thing to take away from baratie was that men show love through insults and physical abuse. Abuse that goes from loving to deadly when it's delivered through a 12 inch blade.
But isn't a blade a deeper and more abusive path to the heart? After all, many would agree that the quickest way to get to a man's heart is through his stomach with food. And knives are used to make food. Surely they cannot have a parallel made in such superficial beatings as kicks.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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I'm curious to know why Sanji didn't tell about his family to his crewmates. Hope there is a genuine reason and not that the plot required it or some bullshit like that.
Also, it's odd that he didn't have the chance to use his "diable jambe" yet, for some mysterious reason he kicked his daddy and his big brother with his weakest technique…. maybe it's because he would have one-shot 'em.
Well for the most part the Straw Hats are always looking forward and not thinking about the past. Luffy and Robin are the best examples before Sanji. They aren't concerned with dishing out the details of their previous lives but when the past catches up to them of course questions are going to be asked and answered all around.
We do know that they exchange some info from their adventures off panel but even Brook had no idea who or what Arlong meant to Nami.
Thats just how they roll, always looking forward.
And dude aint no body ganging up on you. You asked a question and people started discussing it. It's all good.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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@Count:
But isn't a blade a deeper and more abusive path to the heart? After all, many would agree that the quickest way to get to a man's heart is through his stomach with food. And knives are used to make food. Surely they cannot have a parallel made in such superficial beatings as kicks.
Many would also agree that using a knife, without any realtion to food, is the quickest way to a man's heart and other inside organs.
And you need to beat meat to prepare several dishes.
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If only Vegapunk had designed a battle smasher-esque limb replacement for Zeff.
Iron leg Zeff lol. Try threatening that dude.
Rarely do i ever actually laugh out load when reading things but this and the entire conversation following has made me do so. I thank you for the laughs!
As for contribution to the actual topic at hand… I don't want Luffy to get involved either but I wouldn't be surprised if he did fight Judge. That being said I think that the Germa are small fish compared to the SH and I think that this would be a good time to let the weaker members get some fighting in. I mean the only weak person not there is Usopp and I think that it would be interesting to see them fight Sanji's brothers while he fights his Dad.
I think that Luffy is gonna get tied up with Big Mom somehow but will not fight her. Maybe Nami will help with that and then Chopper, Carrot, Sanji and maybe Brook and Pedro will round out fighting the Vinsmokes. I know that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense but to me, even though I have no evidence to prove this, Luffy would wreck the Vinsmokes. I don't even think that he would need Gear 4th so it could come as an interesting arc where Luffy doesn't actually fight the main antagonist but him and Nami somehow deal with the Big Mom problem while Sanji and co take out the actual main antagonist of the arc. As it is right now Luffy seems to be having trouble with Cracker so i don't think he is gonna get another big fight after this but just my opinion
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Sanji not telling the crew about his past only shows how severe his childhood trauma really is. He was shaking when his brothers showed up, so his past is obviously not something he wants to think about, let alone talk about casually with his friends.
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This is clearly the high point of this thread.
Not since the great foreskin discussion of 2014 have we had such good conversational flow
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Well for the most part the Straw Hats are always looking forward and not thinking about the past. Luffy and Robin are the best examples before Sanji. They aren't concerned with dishing out the details of their previous lives but when the past catches up to them of course questions are going to be asked and answered all around.
We do know that they exchange some info from their adventures off panel but even Brook had no idea who or what Arlong meant to Nami.
Thats just how they roll, always looking forward.
And dude aint no body ganging up on you. You asked a question and people started discussing it. It's all good.
And Chopper didn't know about Laboon. It is funny that the Strawhats are privy to a lot of other character's tragic pasts. But pretty much all of their own backgrounds are never explained outside of a nonverbal flashback. They weren't really revealing info to anyone in particular. They know about Robin vaguely. Chopper to a point. And Usopp and Nami probably the most.
Funnily enough I think it wouldn't have made too much of a difference to other crewmates. Except maybe Sanji having a slightly better opinion of maybe Zoro. He's carrying on a dead girl's dream. That would probably be pretty surpising to anyone in the crew lol. Since he's such a grouch.
The crew seems fine with just sailing the seas and technically not really knowing the much about each other. Which in a way really only bothered me when they reunited. They didn't have a little meeting or anything. Just quick blurbs. Granted they've been going from plave to place pretty rapidly. And they've spent more time apart than together. Still just a minor pet peeve of mine lol.
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And Chopper didn't know about Laboon. It is funny that the Strawhats are privy to a lot of other character's tragic pasts. But pretty much all of their own backgrounds are never explained outside of a nonverbal flashback. They weren't really revealing info to anyone in particular. They know about Robin vaguely. Chopper to a point. And Usopp and Nami probably the most.
Funnily enough I think it wouldn't have made too much of a difference to other crewmates. Except maybe Sanji having a slightly better opinion of maybe Zoro. He's carrying on a dead girl's dream. That would probably be pretty surpising to anyone in the crew lol. Since he's such a grouch.
The crew seems fine with just sailing the seas and technically not really knowing the much about each other. Which in a way really only bothered me when they reunited. They didn't have a little meeting or anything. Just quick blurbs. Granted they've been going from plave to place pretty rapidly. And they've spent more time apart than together. Still just a minor pet peeve of mine lol.
I wonder if they will ever know all of it…. Like you said I doubt it would make a difference especially considering that Luffy has shown in the past that he couldn't give a crap what you did in your past. It would be interesting if they did know that kinda stuff. I actually had to think about it before I realized no one in the crew, to our knowledge, knows why Zoro wants to be the greatest swordsman. They just think that one day he decided it..... Do any of them know what Robin's dream is?
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They just think that one day he decided it….. Do any of them know what Robin's dream is?
I think that each Strawhat knows each others dreams.
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If only Vegapunk had designed a battle smasher-esque limb replacement for Zeff.
Iron leg Zeff lol. Try threatening that dude.
Zeff could have eaten the mera mera no mi. He could have been Red Foot Zeff whenever he wanted.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Count:
If Law couldn't get Doflamingo for himself, then I doubt Sanji's going to get that type of privilege either. For four whole people, especially.
Depends on when luffy's fight with big mom is paused or stops, I think they'll clash but if we have reasons to believe luffy easily outclasses judge then why would it make sense to give him the fight vs judge than sanji's dad. Maybe if sanji beats up his brother but is too tired afterward to fight his father, or vice versa but I think this sanji thematic of winning vs his father fits better than law's was especially with him being a crewmember.
Also that law's single minded revenge focused goal was something oda didnt paint as that valiant or anything while sanji being repeatedly called useless, a failure, disgrace cant end with him getting his ass kicked the whole arc without much of a win at the end would agree with judge's words.
As long as sanji beats up one of the family members older than him I'll be fine. But I would rather it be judge, although I dont know maybe Oda wouldnt want Sanji kicking his biological dad for " cultural reasons " similiar to the more delicate women fights thing. Ichiji is prbably the best bet, I cant see a 2 vs 1 and once he beats one of them the second brother would be redundant. But just waiting on the sanji as kicking in IDK a year. ( Im starting to think this might last 70 chapters with all the storylines here though i think they'll be easier to tie together than dressrosa ) It's gonna be a long wait.
Anyone else BTW think we'll continue the sanji flashback in the next chapter and finish it in one go or split it up again. 3 seems like it might be a little much, but it also seems early to finish sanji's flashback now. Thought?
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
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And Chopper didn't know about Laboon. It is funny that the Strawhats are privy to a lot of other character's tragic pasts. But pretty much all of their own backgrounds are never explained outside of a nonverbal flashback. They weren't really revealing info to anyone in particular. They know about Robin vaguely. Chopper to a point. And Usopp and Nami probably the most.
Funnily enough I think it wouldn't have made too much of a difference to other crewmates. Except maybe Sanji having a slightly better opinion of maybe Zoro. He's carrying on a dead girl's dream. That would probably be pretty surpising to anyone in the crew lol. Since he's such a grouch.
The crew seems fine with just sailing the seas and technically not really knowing the much about each other. Which in a way really only bothered me when they reunited. They didn't have a little meeting or anything. Just quick blurbs. Granted they've been going from plave to place pretty rapidly. And they've spent more time apart than together. Still just a minor pet peeve of mine lol.
Didn't Kureha told them Chopper's story?
At least to the bed ridden Nami. That's how we got the flashback.I wonder if they will ever know all of it…. Like you said I doubt it would make a difference especially considering that Luffy has shown in the past that he couldn't give a crap what you did in your past. It would be interesting if they did know that kinda stuff. I actually had to think about it before I realized no one in the crew, to our knowledge, knows why Zoro wants to be the greatest swordsman. They just think that one day he decided it..... Do any of them know what Robin's dream is?
They know eachother's dreams, not the specific reasons that may have lead them to have that dream.
What's important to them is to keep moving forward, to keep going and get what they want.That's why Luffy trashed Nami's room at Arlong Park. He kinda knew that place was holding her back somehow so he got rid of it.
Or why he made Robin shout she wanted to live, so that she could let go of the feelings of unwantedness.Even the chefs on the Baratie did it to Sanji. Talking crap about his food so that he would leave/live instead of just hanging around in the East Blue.
That's always the point in One Piece.
Go see the world. Share your dreams. Let every step of your jorney be a step closer to achieving your dreams, unless you need to go and help a friend/family (half of the time fulfilling their drams).
Then you do that and then you can go back to your dream. -
@Long:
Zeff could have eaten the mera mera no mi. He could have been Red Foot Zeff whenever he wanted.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Depends on when luffy's fight with big mom is paused or stops, I think they'll clash but if we have reasons to believe luffy easily outclasses judge then why would it make sense to give him the fight vs judge than sanji's dad. Maybe if sanji beats up his brother but is too tired afterward to fight his father, or vice versa but I think this sanji thematic of winning fits better than law's was especially with him being a crewmember and how law's single minded revenge focused goal was something oda didnt paint as that valiant or anything while sanji being repeatedly called useless, a failure, disgrace cant end with him getting his ass kicked the whole arc with little resolution like law did.
Ichiji is always an option to perhaps be even stronger than Judge though. I agree about Luffy having a brief skirmish with Big Mom and Sanji having a stronger thematic in terms of payback, although I wouldn't say that Oda painted Law's revenge scheme as wrong either (it was moreso how he tried to take on the burden all by himself that was the issue, if anything).
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
Ichiji is always an option to perhaps be even stronger than Judge though. I agree about Luffy having a brief skirmish with Big Mom and Sanji having a stronger thematic in terms of payback, although I wouldn't say that Oda painted Law's revenge scheme as wrong either (it was moreso how he tried to take on the burden all by himself that was the issue, if anything).
Yeh I edited my post there, it just seems that compared to others, Law didnt really follow corazon's will much after he died, or rather his actions afterward seemed to contradict what corazon wanted for him. Not that all flashback characters are perfect but they all kind of have 1 or 2 themes or lessons for the main character of the flashback, at least the ones with mentors.
Compared to the strawhats
! Shanks: Told luffy to become a great pirate and return the hat, luffy follows his goal because of shanks, he wanted to a pirate thanks to him after all.
! Zoro: Didnt really have a mentor or if it's koshiro we dont know a lot about him.
! Usopp: His mother was also brief, her main mention was that she didnt regret her husband following his dream, didnt really give him a lot to go by on.
! Sanji: Zeff, wanted him to go and pursue his dream though it took a bit of luffy showing his resolve and determination and a nudge from the baratie crew he modeled himself after zeff in a lot of ways and is following what zeff wanted for him, which par of which was for sanji to follow his dreams.
! Nami: Her mother died after exposing the fact she had two children as to let nojiko and nami know that she loved them and they were a real part of her family. Nami takes the same attitude to her village and tries to buy them back from arlong at a great risk to herself.
! Chopper: Hiriluk raises him and teaches him about what being a doctor is, besides the medicine and his determination to fly his flag to declare war on diseases like pirates and tls him about what pirates are. He goes out to sea with this determination, compassion and spirit.
! Robin: Robin has Olvia, Saul and Clover, Im focusing on. Olvia tells robin the importance of living on. Clover knowledge and the wonders of archaeology and saul most importantly tells her to find true friends and never let them go. Robin goes against saul's wishes but out of self sacrifice to protect her friends. Once she decides to let her save them, her trust is rewarded and her true friends save her.
! Franky: Franky was told essentially that one has to claim responsibility in what they make and that he should take pride in all the ships he makes. In a later flashback we learned he told tom about a dream to build a dream ship and sail as the shipwright. Franky, who after trying to get revenge causes him to be mangled, lives as water 7's defender yet still harbours some semblance of his dream when ennies lobby occurs, after talking with iceburg and the panty raid, he decides to join because its what he wanted deep down but was unable to frogive himself for.Sorry if I didnt make the point as well as I wanted in these little snippets but Law's situation is pretty different than most of the strawhats because corazon's wish was from his freedom yet law was willing to die and waste the life corazon gave him for revenge.
Also I think oda had the sengoku scene for that reasn. It was to give law some closure and relieve him from this burden that sengoku probably felt law had put on himself, and he also knew that cora wouldnt have wanted law to feel that way.
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@Count:
Ichiji is always an option to perhaps be even stronger than Judge though. I agree about Luffy having a brief skirmish with Big Mom and Sanji having a stronger thematic in terms of payback, although I wouldn't say that Oda painted Law's revenge scheme as wrong either (it was moreso how he tried to take on the burden all by himself that was the issue, if anything).
You think that its an option for Luffy to beat Bege considering that he is trying to take down Big Mom? This would allow for Sanji to fight Judge/Ichiji and maybe even Chopper and Carrot (Brook?) to fight the other Vinsmokes. I think this would be an interesting turn of events and could put the SH on Big Mom's good side. Based on her info gathering it would be surprising to me for her to not know about Bege's plan so maybe she will send Luffy to take him out in exchange for Jinbei/safe passage away from the island.
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Didn't Kureha told them Chopper's story?
At least to the bed ridden Nami. That's how we got the flashback.That was why I said "to a point." She wasn't there for everything. Part of the big flashback and details was from Chopper's pov. But I couldn't remember how much she told them specifically. Chopper's is the most fleshed out other than Luffy and Robin's now. But 90% of their info isn't actually known by the crew. As much as Chopper's background was explained most of the crew don't actually knoe it do they? Due to timing of joining the crew or actually being present and hearing the details. So maybe Brooke has the most people that know about his backstory because he had a larger audience and actually explained some things regarding Laboon and why he was adrift.
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You think that its an option for Luffy to beat Bege considering that he is trying to take down Big Mom? This would allow for Sanji to fight Judge/Ichiji and maybe even Chopper and Carrot (Brook?) to fight the other Vinsmokes. I think this would be an interesting turn of events and could put the SH on Big Mom's good side. Based on her info gathering it would be surprising to me for her to not know about Bege's plan so maybe she will send Luffy to take him out in exchange for Jinbei/safe passage away from the island.
IMO this depends on if luffy beats cracker, which the jump to morning and big mom questioning the news about him makes it likely either he escaped or beat him. If we know that Cracker beat capone once before, or at least one of the other commanders, I think it would be hard preed for him vs luffy to feel that big.
Good point though bringing up capone. I kind of forgot about him and dont really know who he will fight in this arc. Maybe either pekoms or if he's still out Pedro, because IIRC they are "brothers" in a luffy/ace kind of way. Dont think Tamago will intervene much as he mentioned beggin big mom for forgiveness for his actions but seemed to believe pekoms was justifiably taken out.
Sanji isnt the wild card here, it's the human battleship. Who's gonna sink him.
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well, hope Sanji will defeat his brothers and daddy alone. I don't want to see "mwogh save me Luffy !!! " from Sanji…
It won't be a direct petition but yeah, Luffy's gonna help him, against Niji it would be so easy.
About the matter; only Zoro, Franky and Chopper hadn't ask for Luffy's help.
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And dude aint no body ganging up on you. You asked a question and people started discussing it. It's all good.
hey, I didn't say it in that tone.
I wasn't that serious….
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Even though I think you all have just ganged up against me for no reason, I agree.
Grow up. No one is ganging up on you. You made a post about how you thought something was weird in the manga, when it in fact lines up with the character and is consistent with how character's pasts are revealed over time. Don't make posts on this forum if you need to actually make a point because a bunch of people disagreed with your nonsensical statement about a character giving exposition about his backstory.
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@Count:
If Law couldn't get Doflamingo for himself, then I doubt Sanji's going to get that type of privilege either. For four whole people, especially.
Law is not one of the main cast like sanji, there was no way for him to defeat the main arc boss and luffy get stuck with something lower. Unlike dressrosa, judge is not the main boss in cake island, big mom and her 3 sweet commanders could be more dangerous then judge. Heck, there is also capone in there.
Reiju can defeat niji or ichiji and sanji doesn't have to solo everyone.
Also, doflamingo owned law, he looked dead like 2 times in their battle lol. Sanji had no real wound after their battle, and the only reason his attack didn't work is because judge used other people as walls and sanji didn't want to hurt him.
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This post is deleted!
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Judge not killing Sanji is hardly a star on a belt. You could even argue that the fact he kept Sanji alive to live out the rest of his days in a dungeon with an iron mask that will make him eventually starve to death is worse.
And I extremely doubt that Big Mom's son is dead (he'll probably be brought back from all of those "seconds" they collected). Also, there's a decent chance that she might not even remember what happens during her mental illness phases. Not to mention the fact that it's due to an illness rather than her own free will. Don't get me wrong, she is certainly one intimidating and morally grey woman. But that's kind of the key thing here. She's pretty grey, and Oda always makes it obvious that the main antagonist is someone we're supposed to absolutely detest. Which is what he's been doing with Judge ever since his introduction. And the Straw Hats have teamed up with some pretty shady fellows in the past. I'm not saying they have to view somebody as homicidal as Big Mom as a friend, but it's likely they'll meet some sort of alliance or deal.
And Doflamingo did own Law lol. But he still put up a decent fight. And I'm talking about why Oda decided that Law should be inferior to Doflamingo and have to rely on Luffy.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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There is also pudding as ally, reiju, sanji has help for niji, ichiji, judge, yonji. Without even going in '' nami, chopper, Pedro, sun pirates, brook, tamago, pekoms, jimbei group.
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That is nowhere near enough to beat a Yonko. Who has her own commanders (that are all on the level of Luffy, presumably). And her own crew. And all of her children. And all of the Homies on Totland. And allied crews like Germa 66 and the Firetank Pirates. Not to mention her information network.
Oda's been trying to push the idea that you need a substantial amount of allies to defeat a Yonko since the end of Dressrosa, or even Marineford. Big Mom's not going down, at least by Luffy's hand.
There's also the fact that Nami has a Vivre Card from Lola. Which could play a role in swaying Big Mom. Not to mention Chopper could help cure her illness.
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@Count:
And when it comes to Big Mom, there's plenty of evidence suggesting that she is in fact not the main antagonist of the arc despite being the top dog in Whole Cake. Especially the fact of how Judge and most of his sons are portrayed to be irredeemable jerks with constant reminders of how terrible they are, while Big Mom has hints of moral ambiguity and even light points to her character like how innocent her dream is, not to mention that she respects Luffy and can be negotiated with.
I don't know about that. She only looks mildly ok at the moment thanks to the contrast with the Vinsmokes, but that doesn't make her any less of a selfish jerk. Let's see…
- Her dream is to make her whole family giants regardless of what they may have to say - why not have Caesar work on her own size instead?
- She forces her children to wed for the sake of building her own empire
- She fuels her country-sized Disneyland with the life expectancy of her citizens
- Pirating and general razing of places in order to acquire food and/or as arbitrary punishment
- She plans to use Luffy as a "sacrifice"
- "Killed" her own son in a fit of hunger-induced rage
- Treats former husbands as disposable trash
- ...
Truly a wonderful person to negociate with indeed. :ninja:
She might not feel as terrible as the Vinsmokes, but I don't really see Luffy agreeing with her on anything, and neither do I portray her idly watching while her whole wedding party comes crashing down. One way or the other she will get involved - especially when the Tamabako chest (is that its name ?) from Fishman Island will blow up in the face of whoever opened it (one of the Vinsmokes, I'm guessing). I'm not saying she will immediately become the main antagonist, but I think there will be more to this arc than just beating Papa Vinsmoke to a pulp and giving Mama a high five.
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I definitely agree there's more to it. And I'm not saying that Luffy and Big Mom will suddenly get off without a hitch, they'll probably even fight for a bit and make the wedding a mess (among other things like Germa 66' antics and whatever Capone is planning).
Also, she was willing to negotiate with Jimbei when he asked to leave. The price for that may be something as terrible as losing a limb, yes, but it's a far cry from somebody as belligerent as Kaido. She's been quite entertained by Luffy thus far and has even been persuaded by him to let Fishman Island be unpunished and have Luffy take the blame. And she was a bit disappointed to see that Luffy didn't seem to beat Cracker by the morning. There's definitely a peculiar dynamic growing there between them.
Like I said before, I'm not saying that her and Luffy have to become friends in even a remote sense. But I'm just talking about some sort of deal or alliance similar to when Luffy teamed up with Crocodile in Impel Down (which Luffy had a ton of issues with before Ivankov calmed him down). Especially if they meet to some sort of agreement regarding how Kaido needs to be brought down and probably wants Caesar for his SMILEs.
I just can't see Luffy beating Big Mom at this point in a million years like every other arc antagonist. And you're also forgetting that Chopper can heal her illness and Nami has the Vivre Card from Lola (not that I expect Big Mom to be that grateful or anything, especially with how she advocates political marriages. But it will play some sort of role).
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Even if big mom doesn't fall this arc, I still see one of her sweet commanders as luffy's final match rather then judge.
If judge will join BM with this wedding, he will be her subordinate and should be under the sweet commanders.
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Grow up. No one is ganging up on you. You made a post about how you thought something was weird in the manga, when it in fact lines up with the character and is consistent with how character's pasts are revealed over time. Don't make posts on this forum if you need to actually make a point because a bunch of people disagreed with your nonsensical statement about a character giving exposition about his backstory.
oh, for FUCK'S SAKE.
**@Jack:
hey, I didn't say it in that tone.
I wasn't that serious….
See ????**
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@uniaka:
Law is not one of the main cast like sanji, there was no way for him to defeat the main arc boss and luffy get stuck with something lower. Unlike dressrosa, judge is not the main boss in cake island, big mom and her 3 sweet commanders could be more dangerous then judge. Heck, there is also capone in there.
Reiju can defeat niji or ichiji and sanji doesn't have to solo everyone.
Also, doflamingo owned law, he looked dead like 2 times in their battle lol. Sanji had no real wound after their battle, and the only reason his attack didn't work is because judge used other people as walls and sanji didn't want to hurt him.
First, I doubt Reiju is going to defect to Sanji's side and fight her brothers. Why would she? She clearly likes her royal lifestyle.
Second, Doffy was trying to brutalize and kill Law. Sanji's family just wants to keep him put down, for now.
Third, who do the Straw Hats have on their side that could take on the other two sweet commanders? Jinbe? And Big Mom is pretty much out of the question.
Spoiler:
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hey, I didn't say it in that tone.
I wasn't that serious….
Unless you are posting in the Dumb Predictions thread or clearly making a joke, your predictions/observations can and will be taken at face value and critiqued. That's how it works.
Spoiler:
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@Kaido:
Unless you are posting in the Dumb Predictions thread or clearly making a joke, your predictions/observations can and will be taken at face value and critiqued. That's how it works.
I'm talking' about the "uhhh, please, don't have friends, don't hurt me :sad: " thing and not the "why did Sanji never say anything about his family" which was a genuine question since he's in the crew for more than 2 years now ( so, can't compare it with Robin or Nami or anyone else who've had their own flashbacks and all in the following weeks after joining the crew ).
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Well, why would Sanji talk about his family? He was treated horribly, and by all intents and purposes, the Baratie cooks were his real family. I don't talk to my friends about the bad things that happened to me unless they're currently affecting how I'm feeling/acting, and Sanji's past hasn't affected him like that. He only mentioned that he was born in the North Blue when it became the focus of a discussion, after all.
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Actually, you're too late boss, the conversation is already over.
@Jack:I agree. Just read the said chapter again and it actually makes sense
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/813/12He just really don't wanna talk about his family. Since he isn't considering himself part of it, which I can perfectly understand.
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@uniaka:
There is also pudding as ally, reiju, sanji has help for niji, ichiji, judge, yonji. Without even going in '' nami, chopper, Pedro, sun pirates, brook, tamago, pekoms, jimbei group.
We can add Caesar to that list, all the minks in there, and whatever the splinter group Bege belongs to.
@Count:
That is nowhere near enough to beat a Yonko. Who has her own commanders (that are all on the level of Luffy, presumably). And her own crew. And all of her children. And all of the Homies on Totland. And allied crews like Germa 66 and the Firetank Pirates. Not to mention her information network.
Firetank Pirates seems to gonna do a coup… with Big Mom's own daughter's blessing. Still not certain though. Still, we knew from Charlote Praline convos that she will side with her husband against Big Mom, and Lola even left. Seems not 100% of her children approve of her. I suspect the throwing-away-husband-after-2-kids thing was a factor on it.
Oda's been trying to push the idea that you need a substantial amount of allies to defeat a Yonko since the end of Dressrosa, or even Marineford. Big Mom's not going down, at least by Luffy's hand.
That remains to be seen really. I think the mink and fishmen pirates are pretty substantial force. And with luck, Sanji can turn Germa for him. And Homies currently works for Nami, with smart navigation (see what I did there), she can keep that long-enough before Big Mom notices.
There's also the fact that Nami has a Vivre Card from Lola. Which could play a role in swaying Big Mom. Not to mention Chopper could help cure her illness.
It's playing it's part already by usurping power over the homies (temporarily). And mental disorder needs shrinks and may not have a cure. Though Chopper can diagnose her, she already knows her medication, which is whatever she craves.
@Count:
Also, she was willing to negotiate with Jimbei when he asked to leave. The price for that may be something as terrible as losing a limb, yes, but it's a far cry from somebody as belligerent as Kaido. She's been quite entertained by Luffy thus far and has even been persuaded by him to let Fishman Island be unpunished and have Luffy take the blame. And she was a bit disappointed to see that Luffy didn't seem to beat Cracker by the morning. There's definitely a peculiar dynamic growing there between them.
Doflamingo was quite entertained with Luffy too. Remember when he suggested to let Luffy and Ace go in the war for it is more fun that way. And they still fight because Doffy is beating on his friend (Law). Big Mom already has a beef on Luffy because of that exchange in FI. And if there's even gonna be a negotiation, in exchange for Jimbei and Sanji I bet she'll demand something outrageous, for example, Robin to read her poneglyphs. That's not gonna end well.
Like I said before, I'm not saying that her and Luffy have to become friends in even a remote sense. But I'm just talking about some sort of deal or alliance similar to when Luffy teamed up with Crocodile in Impel Down (which Luffy had a ton of issues with before Ivankov calmed him down). Especially if they meet to some sort of agreement regarding how Kaido needs to be brought down and probably wants Caesar for his SMILEs.
Though I wonder what Big Mom stand to gain if Kaido is beaten. If she thinks, like you think, that Luffy can't touch her, then why would she even trust him to beat Kaido?
I just can't see Luffy beating Big Mom at this point in a million years like every other arc antagonist. And you're also forgetting that Chopper can heal her illness and Nami has the Vivre Card from Lola (not that I expect Big Mom to be that grateful or anything, especially with how she advocates political marriages. But it will play some sort of role).
Well, ain't that the bottomline? You just can't see Luffy beating Big Mom. And feeling like that happens often in the series, yet Luffy beat them anyway after a struggle. I mean, there's nothing wrong with doubting but maybe we should begin trusting on the guy. I also can't see him winning based on information at hand. But awaiting him after this are baddies more sinister. And there won't be a timeskip anytime soon.
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What do the minks have to do anything with Big Mom?aside from pedro and carrot,minks are not gonna be involved in the Totland arc because they are both recuperating and also preparing for the fight against Kaido.they have been very clearly told to only come into play against kaido.And yeah,Sanji's family is definitely gonna get their asses kicked and there will be no alliance with them at all.
And the main point is that there is no build-up yet to beat an emperor.for starters,even the crew is not there completely.to beat Big-Mom in this sort of situation with no clear allies and not even the whole crew would really be underwhelming,and also make Big-Mom seemingly not on par with the other yonkous.
this ain't dressrosa where third-parties are readily available,here there are not going to be many traitors among Big-Mom's crew(i'm talking about her crew,not jilted ex-lovers),and if there are any like maybe Bege they are not gonna easily side with Luffy too.there is also no conspiracy here which would cause people to rebel against Big-Mom,we have clearly been shown all the people are here by their own will,she is not forcing people to live here. -
@Kaido:
First, I doubt Reiju is going to defect to Sanji's side and fight her brothers. Why would she? She clearly likes her royal lifestyle.
Second, Doffy was trying to brutalize and kill Law. Sanji's family just wants to keep him put down, for now.
Third, who do the Straw Hats have on their side that could take on the other two sweet commanders? Jinbe? And Big Mom is pretty much out of the question.
considering reiju had to fake her laugh just so she doesn't get beat up like sanji, when it loooked like genuine laugh the first time, there is no such thing as ''clearly'' about her yet.
Luffy already has more then his normal crew with jimbei, pekoms, Pedro, carrot, nami, sun pirates, lola, lola's pops, sanji, reiju, pudding.
and more will show up at tea party.
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@uniaka:
Luffy already has more then his normal crew with jimbei, pekoms, Pedro, carrot, nami, sun pirates, lola, lola's pops, sanji, reiju, pudding.
None of them except maybe Jinbe are on the level of a Sweet Commander though. And Lola is currently in Water 7…
and more will show up at tea party.
Nothing has been indicated that anyone outside of Totland is coming to the tea party
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What do the minks have to do anything with Big Mom?aside from pedro and carrot,minks are not gonna be involved in the Totland arc because they are both recuperating and also preparing for the fight against Kaido.they have been very clearly told to only come into play against kaido.
I thought it was obvious that I'm refering to the Mink Pirates, which Pedro captained, residing in Totland.
And yeah,Sanji's family is definitely gonna get their asses kicked and there will be no alliance with them at all.
When Sanji's family is beat, who will the clone pawns follow?
And the main point is that there is no build-up yet to beat an emperor.for starters,even the crew is not there completely.to beat Big-Mom in this sort of situation with no clear allies and not even the whole crew would really be underwhelming,and also make Big-Mom seemingly not on par with the other yonkous.
Irrelevant, Luffy will get close to Big Mom. If situation calls for it, they will fight and none may interrupt. The only allies that matter are the allies that are close. With luck that will be taken care of. And what if it does make Big-Mom look weaker than the others? The bounty of Cracker is less than of Jack, both of equal rank relatively. Looking at that perspective, she does look weaker. But again, it can be argued .
we have clearly been shown all the people are here by their own will,she is not forcing people to live here.
Doesn't mean that they can't hope for better. Can they even leave peacefully? What awaits out there if they leave? Yeah, they are stuck here. Maybe compared to other islands, they are better of. But a government that prey on its people's lives literally?…
Some long-term predictions: Vegapunk with Paw-Paw fruit for Nakama!!! Kaidou is gonna be killed by Blackbeard and get his strongest Zoan DF!!!
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I thought it was obvious that I'm refering to the Mink Pirates, which Pedro captained, residing in Totland.
there are some people that know pedro,but i'm not so sure, is it ever stated that pedro was their captain,or even that they are pirates?
regardless,considering that they decided to start living in totland,i don't see any reason why would suddenly start fighting against Big Mom.also,i doubt there are any considerable number of themWhen Sanji's family is beat, who will the clone pawns follow?
ok,let's say we have them.but in the end they are just pawns.the only thing they can do is fight Big Mom's pawns.i don't know the difference between the fodder strengths of big mom and Germa,but even assuming they are equal,that still leaves most of her crew and subordinates
Irrelevant, Luffy will get close to Big Mom. If situation calls for it, they will fight and none may interrupt. The only allies that matter are the allies that are close. With luck that will be taken care of. And what if it does make Big-Mom look weaker than the others? The bounty of Cracker is less than of Jack, both of equal rank relatively. Looking at that perspective, she does look weaker. But again, it can be argued .
Jack's bounty is that high because he is a monster and ass-hole,and leaves behind many fatalities.much like why kidd's bounty was more than luffy. and we have not even seen all the top subordinates bounty,there is no way to compare them now for now.
now about the underlined,it really does not seem good storytelling to me to build up the seemingly strongest pirates that are in a stalemate,and then have one of them taken down so easily without any proper story-setup,without even all the main cast,without even any preparation.Doesn't mean that they can't hope for better. Can they even leave peacefully? What awaits out there if they leave? Yeah, they are stuck here. Maybe compared to other islands, they are better of. But a government that prey on its people's lives literally?…
yeah they can.not to mention that it is told to us,without any seeming relation to anything else in the chapter(the very next page we go back to the seducing woods) because it is important info.people are willingly giving their life-span as a sort of tax.it may seem barbaric,but hey everyone is clearly shown to happily give this tax.and what awaits out there is the rest of the world.they can go anywhere.not to mention in the first place totland is a nation that was created by Big-Mom,not one that existed naturally and people came from different places out of their own will to live in this "utopia".i mean,yeah it is no utopia but for them at least it is
Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it. Even if something can be known about it,
