Hanyabal, Kinemon, Zoro once against Ryuma, Lucci at a filler, one of the Boa sisters (though I'm not sure, seem to recall that she used some fluid)…
You'll have to provide a link for Hanyabal and the amazon's since I don't recall those encounters. And I specifically said without a device or devil fruit and clearly filler does not count. So Zoro Kinemon and Lucci don't count.
It's still odd…He just created fire and it doesn't cause harm to himself or his shoes and pants but it still catches enemies on fire?Your sentence is a bit confusing. Are you asking about how other series explain elemental powers? I don't care how other series do the element thing. I'm talking just this series.
And why a genetic enhancement should protect his pants and shows? And yeah he created fire and explained it… which is the same explanation you mentioned for LuffyAnd to other mangas... forget them. But look at OP itself and the strange abilities we have seen by non DF users.But people are still confused by fire?
You'll have to provide a link for Hanyabal and the amazon's since I don't recall those encounters. And I specifically said without a device or devil fruit and clearly filler does not count. So Zoro Kinemon and Lucci don't count.
I understand what you mean Zoro's one wasn't a filler though but I believe that was also through friction he moved his sword really fast and the cut managed to get ignited. In Kinemon respect I think he's using a fire sword since he mentions some sort of Fox style Swordsman skill. But yeah no other people can generate fire without using some magical powers
You'll have to provide a link for Hanyabal and the amazon's since I don't recall those encounters. And I specifically said without a device or devil fruit and clearly filler does not count. So Zoro Kinemon and Lucci don't count.
Why is it OK for a sword user creating fire ouf of their ass?And again… What do you think about Ashura? Explosive punches, flying air slashes, Shape changing, color traps and so on.
Why is it OK for a sword user creating fire ouf of their ass?And again… What do you think about Ashura? Explosive punches, flying air slashes, Shape changing, color traps and so on.
I think what Cyclone_Baroness would like is some physics logic to it..I know its Manga but I kind of understand what he's saying.
Interestingly enough what I've read is that the cursed swords is what causes Ashura and Hakuba. Cavendish is also using a cursed sword like Zoro and Law even though we haven't seen Law use anything sprite based or possession
Where was stated that Durandal is a cursed sword?
I think what Cyclone_Baroness would like is some physics logic to it..I know its Manga but I kind of understand what he's saying.
Again Sanji himself used manga logic in his explanation with friction.Cyclone finds it OK for Luffy but Sanji not cuz he isn't burning his pants? I doubt the pants has some super enhancements in them.Not hurting his leg is another matter and I don't even deny the possibility. But I doubt the theme currently is going about Sanji teaching them the power of "human".But we will see
I believe Oda once responded in a SBS that the fire doesn't burn Sanji because of his passion.
I believe Oda once responded in a SBS that the fire doesn't burn Sanji because of his passion.
Basically accept sanjis fire as cool manga logic, until proven to be something else.^^
Also, Sanji got the recessive genes?
Solid Snake confirmed, and we know Snake is the baddest mofo ever. :D
You'll have to provide a link for Hanyabal and the amazon's since I don't recall those encounters. And I specifically said without a device or devil fruit and clearly filler does not count. So Zoro Kinemon and Lucci don't count.
I see, well Hanyabal was using a double-bladed staff so it also wouldn't count to you. Just checked and Boa Marigold ignited herself :(. I guess it's tough to find someone that fits your criteria. Would you consider Doflamingo's Overheat though? It's flaming in the anime and games.
Where was stated that Durandal is a cursed sword?
Ahhhhhh it wasn't I've been readying too many theories on OP messing with my head.
A question. Wasn't this "lineage factor" thing brought up in Punk Hazard regarding the artificial Devil Fruits?
i think Sanji is stronger than all of them because imo I would get more satisfaction from sanji beating them up instead of Luffy. But that is what Luffy is though.
And what also wouldn't be satisfying is three (four if you count judge) straight fights of Sanji vs relative.
@S.C.:
A question. Wasn't this "lineage factor" thing brought up in Punk Hazard regarding the artificial Devil Fruits?
I think it's safe to assume that every single act of mad science in the OP world leads back to Vegapunk eventually.
Sure some other dude might crudely dabble in it after he's established it. But only he makes flawless shit
I think it's safe to assume that every single act of mad science in the OP world leads back to Vegapunk eventually.
Sure some other dude might crudely dabble in it after he's established it. But only he makes flawless shit
To think years ago. Every mysterious ability =haki and every mysterious character =Sabo:p.
Who would thought lots of science stuff= Vegapunk.
Hopefuly Sanji is just actually normal, and won't get a cyborg-like power up. SH's don't need a 2nd cyborg imo.
Although it would be cliched to see the normal human triumphant over superhumans or w/e.
Too many to try and requote on my phone.
Basically I just find it weird the Sanji gets "it's friction" as a reason. It should also cause himself some harm if that's all it was is a suped up Indian Burn that he could weaponize.
With Luffy it was kind of a stretch but not too much since he was already generating steam.
Kinemon is using a specific technique with a weapon. It's not just coming from his body.
Oda can just leave it at "it's friction or his passion" but now that this super soldier thing came up it seems like a better way to wrap it up more neatly.
Then we'd still have Zoro's weird stuff to theorize for years lol.
Seeing Sanji being badass under water - his Blue Walk - and being as fast as Fishman while as kid he was failing miserably at swimming is really cool.
Seeing him running so fast he can run in air - Sky Walk - in air after he was lagging behind his siblings as kid is really cool.
Seeing Sanji being beaten up again and getting insanely abused mentally and physically in flashback as kid was not cool at all…
I do like how Sanji was able to injure both Yonji and Niji after his brothers were previously impervious to him
But for now, all this talk about Sanji being stronger than his brothers is BS.
Spoiler:
You said he didn't show any signs of visible damage right?
Only if you extend the definition of "signs of visible damage" to making a gesture of pain then is that statement wrong.
Notice I didn't say pain, I said damage. Something like Oda constantly draws, blood or bruising.
as i've pointed out he had to crack his jaw back in place.
stop dodging the point
I'm not dodging the point of a thing you and Dr Faust made up, that Niji's jaw was put of place. Hearing a crack doesn't mean something as serious as that lol. Something that would at LEAST also be accompanied with the usual bruising crosshatching lol, but nothing at all and he had his jaw dislocated? Sure thing!
But above all else I'm super curious how his jaw was put of place when Sanji didn't kick him in the jaw. Very strange!
OK…though wasn't Sanji bullied by the family for being so weak? So since he beat Yonji in a fight so easily
I too love assuming things I didn't see went a way that just happens to help silly points I want to believe.
why wouldn't sanji be able to break out of the grasp of Niji?
I never said he couldn't. But it's every bit as possible that he might not as he might given what we know. Which is next to nothing.
unless Yonji is just WAY below his two older bros.
From what just happened alone, we can tell Niji is superior to Yonji. But given that Yonji was kicked in the face, and not beaten in a straight up fight in a fight as you're inventing, this doesn't make Yonji nothing either.
So I don't buy the fact that Sanji was able to beat Yonji so easily but cant even break out of the grasp of his older brothers.
Probably because he didn't "beat" Yonji. He had some sort of altercation where Yonji got kicked in the face. Unless you're suggesting during their entire fight Sanji only kicked him in that one exact spot on his face every time lol. And that being directly unquestionably defeated in single combat by Sanji didn't bother Yonji whatsoever aside from being slightly annoyed, which totally makes lots of sense yeah.
He probably is better than Yonji, but not by as much as you're again, inventing. And we can quite easily assume Yonji is weaker than the other two.If yonji was that far beneath ichiji and Niji then I think he would have been bullied as well.
Yonji being weaker doesn't make him remotely the same thing as what Sanji was. You'd have to not have read this very chapter to not know the scope of difference.
> Your statement is PROVEN false thanks to the fact thanks to the fact that Sanji already beat Yonji easily Oh he did? Show me the fight they had, and the dialogue that says they had a fight (yes, a fight). And also show me the necessary major reaction Yonji had when defeated in combat by his brother.
Oh wait you can't? Imagine that. Almost like a bunch of Foot Fetishists together just assumed the coolest thing possible rather than actually paying attention, and have since forgotten they made an assumption in the first place.
I also like that on top of inventing a fight that didn't happened, you also invented that it was an easy fight for Sanji. Next how about we make up where it took place, and what move Sanji used.not only that but both Sanji and Yonji even CONFIRMED this in chapter 832 when judge first speaks with sanji and in chapter 833 when yonjis face is getting restructured back.http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/832/20 http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/833/7
Judge says Sanji "did something" to Yonji. Like say, a kick in the face in an argument. Rather than a mythical offscreen fight, which would not be something done to someone.
Than Yonji's scene is the most powerful evidence against a fight happening of all, which shows him mildly miffed about what happened and ready to get back at Sanji.
Which suggests beyond any doubt that a fight didn't happened. So thanks for the link.No, because that makes no sense. The fight between Niji and Sanji over Cosette had nothing to do with Sanji going through with the wedding.
Sanji bucking the family system and constantly getting out of line with arguments, is exactly in line with him being tamed and made demure for the sake of the family plan.
Not that it would surprise me coming from a Foot Fetishist, but did you stop reading the chapter when the flashback began? Because I'm kind of amazed that a person could read the chapter and come away thinking that Sanji surpassing all his brothers significantly enough that they use blackmail to avoid getting beaten by him…is just a natural fact sitting in the air and all the characters are aware of this. Because like, the flashback part made it even more obvious than it already was that Sanji has an underdog background that is going to be finally pitted against his strong-by-birth brothers.
But Foot Fetishits don't want their darling boy to be an underdog, because they hate the characterization, and love the character more as an empty vessel for kicking.and now youre just putting words in my mouth…
Oh you've been saying that in so many words.
Never did I say that they are afraid of Sanji.
It might actually be even stupider and stranger for them to not even care at all about being beaten by their brother possibly, and just functionally unemotionally using blackmail to avoid the possibility because whatever.
Almost like this sort of view could only exist in a world where chapters are read for (literal) kicks and not characters.
@Kaido:
I do like how Sanji was able to injure both Yonji and Niji after his brothers were previously impervious to him
But for now, all this talk about Sanji being stronger than his brothers is BS.
not really if he's been held back by a bomb and the threat of losing his family in east blue. We don't know how their power stack up but each time he's faced his blood family, he's been handicapped.
@S.C.:
A question. Wasn't this "lineage factor" thing brought up in Punk Hazard regarding the artificial Devil Fruits?
Seems like "lineage" factor = DNA. Seems devil fruits have it too.
@Kaido:
I do like how Sanji was able to injure both Yonji and Niji after his brothers were previously impervious to him
I imagine he will have final fight of this arc with Ichiji. Possibly strength of those exoskeletons whatever those are depends on talent, strength and training so Ichiji could be final challenge for Sanji during this arc.
During this chapter Ichiji distracted Sanji and Niji used that chance to get behind Sanji while next dick move was to use Zeff to land a hit on Sanjis back.. Such shitty assholes will certainly get a dose of kicks to the face. Impression I got was that Sanji would almost certainly beat Niji up if not for threats.. One kick was enough to break neck and that was not even imbued with Diable Jambe - I wonder why..
Perhaps Sanji is holding back against his family as shitty as they are. He was not holding back against some fodder on Punk Hazard when he Diable Jambed one of them to hell and now he is not using it to fight such shitty bastard(perhaps it needed a moment to activate and Sanji went straight on to attack).
All in all Oda is building up Sanjis trump card reveal.
Read a interesting–though unlikely, probably--theory about how Judge and his children may even be clones/genetically engineered, created by Vegapunk, and they have no idea that they are; like Yonji stated, clones have implanted memories and don't know they are clones, or that they practically come out of nowhere full-grown adults.
It was Vegapunk, right, the guy mainly behind the discovery of DNA and cloning?
not really if he's been held back by a bomb and the threat of losing his family in east blue. We don't know how their power stack up but each time he's faced his blood family, he's been handicapped.
I mostly meant about people making assumptions like they're fact despite close to zero evidence of their parity.
Remember, Law hit Doflamingo with an Injection Shot, and Doffy still kicked his ass
Didn't Sanji once said something like "fire can't hurt a good cook" ?
Didn't Sanji once said something like "fire can't hurt a good cook" ?
It was more something like how could I cook as a chef, if I was afraid of fire.
Anyone knows if Oda had a terrible childhood? anyone? Because he really loves his characters to have the crappiest lives back in their early years. I always considered Robin to have the worst childhood but now I think Sanji's even worse. I mean, at least Robin had people who loved her, Sanji's dad wanted him dead.
Apart from that, the chapter was great, I am loving the story and the kick in Niiji's face was really satisfactory and the flashback is great, I am aching to see the next chapter
One Piece Treasure Cruise ID 944,345,372
@Monkey:
And what also wouldn't be satisfying is three (four if you count judge) straight fights of Sanji vs relative.
I was more thinking a 1 vs 3 but Sanji would have to be a significant amount stronger but like i said I have no evidence to say that he is but I think it would be just that more satisfying to see Sanji KO his family instead of someone else.
off topic I think it would be kinda interesting if one of the main arc antagonists were actually twins or something and Luffy would have to 2 v 1 them. But that is just my opinion.
Anyone knows if Oda had a terrible childhood? anyone? Because he really loves his characters to have the crappiest lives back in their early years. I always considered Robin to have the worst childhood but now I think Sanji's even worse. I mean, at least Robin had people who loved her, Sanji's dad wanted him dead.
They are all terrible in their own way. But i'd say Robin and Nami hold the top spots on the jesus christ scale.
While Zoro, Luffy and Usopp have more down to earth terrible childhoods.
And Fuhranky, Sunkist and Chopper hover in some middle-ground where it's total shit but it's not y'know Nami bad.
Oda loves/loved (may she RIP) his Grandma, so…I'm assuming his childhood is good.
Yeah, I assume it too but this chapter was so sad for little Sanji, and I remembered the other SH childhoods being quite sad as well except for Ussop (the nicest in my opinion)
One Piece Treasure Cruise ID 944,345,372
and I remembered the other SH childhoods being quite sad as well except for Ussop (the nicest in my opinion)
And that's still a deadbeat dad, a terminally ill mother and an orphan with a psychological trauma that he still can't quite shake.
I'd probably go with Sauron for the "least horrible". If you can call losing a friend in an accident that.
Yeah, I assume it too but this chapter was so sad for little Sanji, and I remembered the other SH childhoods being quite sad as well except for Ussop (the nicest in my opinion)
Pretty interesting to think about Luffy's and Sanji's second flashbacks. "Wow these people aren't related to Luffy but they sure do love." vs "Wow these people are related to Sanji but they sure do hate him."
Successful negro doesn't need a signature.
What sou you all reckon will happen to Sanji. Will he exhibit some growth that was hindered all these years… Something underlying genetically speaking... Especially if he comes into contact with some fluids as we saw this chapter?
Looking forward to Kuma's flashback and learn his motives. This little scoop about Vegapunk being detained puts a better perspective on his stance with the Goverment. It makes more sense that Kuma allowed his transformation into Px-0. Damn, Vegapunk is gettiing more interesting as we get closer to meeting him. I wonder why when people pitch in a "scientist" for new crewmate they go with Ceasar instead of Vegapunk is beyond me.
Clones are actually Vergo's father. Jokes aside, that lab is getting destroyed. It would be nice to see Luffy try a King Kong Gun and Big Mom just swats it away. "I guess you are NOT just bravado".
-The Vinsmoke siblings' abilities might not be fruit related after all. Yonji at least doesn't have one. If genetic modification is the epitome of this nation, their abilities might come from experiments.
I wonder whom will it be that tells Luffy about Sanji's abuse as a kid. Reiju is a proper choice. But I ever so want Judge to be the one to confess.
Reiju again is a proper choice for Sanji's reason for escaping. But Momji could just have "died" too it seems, at least coming from Judge. Mommy helped Curly-bro escape, right before she was actually killed by Papa douche.
So was Reiju part of a different batch or a prototype (hence the zero) or what? Same genetic treatments, different mother even? And how far ahead of the rest was she born exactly?
And that's still a deadbeat dad, a terminally ill mother and an orphan with a psychological trauma that he still can't quite shake.
I'd probably go with Sauron for the "least horrible". If you can call losing a friend in an accident that.
One can't help but wonder if Zoro has some longer backstory Oda hasn't presented yet.
Zoro might have another back story, as well as Chopper, or even Brook or Franky could have another one. If those will be a reality and will be presented to us is for Oda to decide :happy:
Well Sanji wins for worst childhood out of the Strawhats. At least that argument is settled.
Well, Robin is still pretty high up there. At least Sanji found Zeff while he was still a child. Robin was alone until she met the straw hats.
Chopper's second backstory was the time he first went Monster Point
Set Art by Daily Rowlet
Well Sanji wins for worst childhood out of the Strawhats. At least that argument is settled.
Robin still wins by a mile.
Arguably Nami is also worse than Sanji's.
No one beats out Robin.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Chopper's second backstory was the time he first went Monster Point
lol no .
Oh it's going to be so sweet when Sanji kicks the shit outta Ichiji and especially Niji. Like "I ain't surprised mfers!"
Good chapter overall, more clarity on Sanji background & his family. Vegapunk has been hyped up for a long time now, and this chapter added more room to the hype train. Vegapunk's reveal should be epic, I can't wait to see what type of character he is. Hopefully not a complete nutter though that's usually a trait of a genius. I expected Franky to be around when Vegapunk shows up so I'm guessing he wont feature in this arc, but who knows? It could get real serious the way things are going with both Germa 66 and Big Mom in the mix. I always thought Vegapunk was a prisoner of the WGvt who was held against his will, maybe under blackmail (e.g. Sanji right now). By programming Kuma to defend the Sunny showed Vegapunk is a rebel to the WGvt. He could easily be plotting against them (and give birth to the Android Saga). I personally think it'd be cool if he was an average Walter White type character Heisenberg.
Germa 66 has some serious power with that re spawning-type military. The science of life is the deepest subject it'll be interesting to see how much Oda will go into it.
I was joking!
Chopper's single backstory is good enough as it is, imo
The most obvious candidates for an expanded backstory now are Zoro and Brook, I'd say.
Set Art by Daily Rowlet
I was joking!
Chopper's single backstory is good enough as it is, imoThe most obvious candidates for an expanded backstory now are Zoro and Brook, I'd say.
I would also count Franky. There was that brief mention of his parents being pirates and abandoning him for unknown reasons, which could always be expanded upon.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
@Count:
I would also count Franky. There was that brief mention of his parents being pirates and abandoning him for unknown reasons, which could always be expanded upon.
Also that strange ship he climbed on after the accident with Puffing Tom.
You know, it really is surprising how little we know about the crew's backstories.
I'll pass on bounty hunter Zoro. Franky's past has the most intrigue to me. Brook….has probably seen a lot, so anything going into detail would just feel like a plot dump.
@Monkey:
Also that strange ship he climbed on after the accident with Puffing Tom.
I almost forgot about that! You have a sharp memory lol.
I'll pass on bounty hunter Zoro. Franky's past has the most intrigue to me. Brook….has probably seen a lot, so anything going into detail would just feel like a plot dump.
Brook (or somebody else in Yorki's crew for all I know) specifically mentioned that he was from a specific kingdom where he learned his swordsmanship and was part of a battle convoy. I think that going into detail about how and why Brook even became a pirate in the first place would definitely be enlightening.
@Monkey:
Robin still wins by a mile.
Arguably Nami is also worse than Sanji's.No one beats out Robin.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
lol no .
How would you compare law's flashback to the crewmember's in terms of shittiness?
In the scenario where Sanji has already touched his power climax abandoning the thought of being a regular human… what's left to Zoro then? How is he that powerful and able to match with Sanji and Luffy? I could compare it with Rayleigh, another normal human plus Haoshoku but still pairing with a Logia + Haki without problems.
In the terms of strength, i don't think Vinsmokes are bound to a particule skill yet have bodies able to sustain abnormal states such as lightning or fire... and recalling the nick of Ichiji, he's the one using fire. Anyway, resolution is what matters in One Piece, If Oda wants to keep Sanji being a normal human and just now will he show what he's capable of thanks to willpower, good to me... specially start using his hands for something more important than cooking.
Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it. Even if something can be known about it,
knowledge about it can't be communicated to others. Even if it can be communicated, it cannot be understood.
