Chapter 840: "Iron Mask"

BeariousJones

@Monkey:

We saw the exact moment Sanji learned about All Blue five billion chapters ago. It was the chefs he was was working with on the vacation ship that Zeff attacked.

@sggupta:

actually,no.it was sanji who mentioned All Blue to the chefs and they responded back that it was a fantasy

edit:and while i don't think we have proof that vergo ist he source of the clones,but ranking in marines doesn't necessarily depend on strength.he had just joined the nave,they aren't gonna know the extent of his strength and even if they did know,he wasn't gonna get insta-promoted to Vice-Admiral.especially when that would draw attention to him

@Brainyz:

I'm sorry to say this, but if my memory serves me right, this was actually just a scene added on episode 51 which is filler.
The information about who told Sanji about All Blue is not expanded upon in the manga thus far, anyone is free to correct me.

Thanks for clarifying if Sanji MAY have known about All Blue before him being on the Orbit.

So Sanji learned cooking from his mother first is a possibility?

Omega_Destroyer

@Kishido:

And why Judge hasn't simply killed Sanji off?

He's still useful.

I get the vibe that Reiju (or whatever her name is) will somehow sabotage the bracelets (assuming they are put back on) which will allow Sanji to fight back and ultimately escape.

Roronoa Zacho

Reiju probably freed him from the mask and told him to start a new life in East Blue. It's the weakest sea after all.
Can't wait to see a new technique from Sanji aside from Geppou.
If judge can clone humans, maybe he can clone giants as well. The Technology Needs to be the same. You just Need more culture fluid and a bigger pod.
This mass production of humans must definetly be the Thing BM is after. Infinite souls for her dreamland.

King Cannon

People wanting Sanji to have some sort of genetic unlocking power up are kinda missing the point of what Sanji is supposed to represent.

Captain M

@BlackLegEd:

Apparently some people noticed the books Sanji was reading about was related was Devil Fruit book and the Noland Liar book (don't remember the name) Any translators can confirm that?

I was more puzzled with the mention of Cosette afterwards. I thought hey maybe he's talking about Cosette instead now I'm not sure. >. >

@Seafarer33:

I'm not sure the intention goes that far. Considering what happened just before and the rest of the dialog, Niji would rather be taunting Sanji in the sense "I didn't know you (a royal) could fall for someone as low as our chef Cosette". In his eyes, that would be insulting and against what he considers normality, which is maybe why MS chose that specific wording. In their defense, I think they did mention at one point that insults in japanese aren't easy to translate straight into english.

Ichiji says "Do not forget, we've got quick and easy access to your East Blue Achille's Heel."

Sanji flinches and Niiji grabs him. Niiji says, "Well this is unexpected… I didn't even know you swung that way... You and that pathetic excuse for a chef would make a cute couple."

Then on the next page, Niiji continues, "Just try to fight back... I dare you... All the blood spilt over at the East Blue will be on your hands."

It's not til after that Cosette is mentioned again. It seems pretty clear he was entirely talking about the East Blue hostages at the time, while trying to make a very creepy dig at Sanji's sexuality. At least in the way Mangastream have written it, that is.

Cyclone_Baroness

@King:

People wanting Sanji to have some sort of genetic unlocking power up are kinda missing the point of what Sanji is supposed to represent.

But what about his fire powers?

firelord111

@Omega_Destroyer:

He's still useful.

I get the vibe that Reiju (or whatever her name is) will somehow sabotage the bracelets (assuming they are put back on) which will allow Sanji to fight back and ultimately escape.

If he was useful then why say to all his army that sanji is dead and make him imprisoned to death
I think even thought judge is evil for some reason he still didnt have hearth to kill sanji directly

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@King:

People wanting Sanji to have some sort of genetic unlocking power up are kinda missing the point of what Sanji is supposed to represent.

He can Represent someone that was mistaken as dud

bigtree

Didn't expect the Vegapunk connection but somehow that 5 year process for a clone is going to get shortened sooner or later.

King Cannon

@firelord111:

If he was useful then why say to all his army that sanji is dead and make him imprisoned to death
I think even thought judge is evil for some reason he still didnt have hearth to kill sanji directly

I feel like he just wanted to torture Sanji for being a failure, i.e top jerkassery parenting.

Roronoa Zacho

TBH it would feel wierd to the audience, if Sanji somehow "activates" now his "superhuman"-genes. The message of this Story is, that you don't Need any superhuman genes to reach your Goal, you just Need to work hard for it (some People could be shocked by this fact, I know).

firelord111

@King:

I feel like he just wanted to torture Sanji for being a failure, i.e top jerkassery parenting.

Why torture a failure when it can be erased easily

Captain M

How much older than her siblings is Reiju anyway? She seems to spend more time alone with her father in the flashbacks while the boys do their own thing, but that could just be her preference. She's the same size as them, she's assessed alongside them in this week's flashback, and her abilities seem to be appearing at about the same rate. The boys have no trouble keeping up with her. Nothing about her demeanor suggests she's too far their superior, or much more mature. But Ichihi was pretty specific about the four of them being born on the same day.

So was Reiju part of a different batch or a prototype (hence the zero) or what? Same genetic treatments, different mother even? And how far ahead of the rest was she born exactly?

sggupta

@MetaMario:

I dunno, is it a copout or what have you to have the sole female member of the organization not be so evil after all?

imo it'd be better to wait a while before deciding that

No matter which way you slice it, it's Sanji who is getting the worst abuse, mainly because he and he alone was viewed as a genetic failure. Would she get the same treatment if she defended Sanji, despite being like her brothers and "successful"?

She may not get it as bad as sanji,but she probably would be at least heckled.also i believe,though i may be wrong that ichiji is stronger than her so she can't be more dominant than him,not to mention judge expects a lot from her and would probably punish her if she disobeys him.also,it is not necessary for reiju to be very good if she is not evil.in the end,i think she cares more about herself and her position than sanji,or anyone else for that matter.She is just not sadistic and a bully
Reiji's dialogue from last chapter comes at me,and i think is relevant to what we are discussing."half-hearted kindness only leads to more suffering".i think she believes that her standing up for sanji isn't gonna achieve anything,and would only worsen it.A similar to what happened with Cosette.Or that he will have to stand up for himself
though i think Reiju is surrounded by a lot of mystery to say anything concretely about her.why wasn't she mentioned by the doctor in his report?why was she born maybe separately from the brothers?and perhaps most importantly,why is she a girl?i mean,this may sound strange but we know that most of the soldiers in Germa are male clones,and Vinsmoke siblings are GM.that means their sex could easily have been set.so why have a girl when judge seems to think(and maybe is the case a little)that males are better soldiers than females?

Roronoa Zacho

When Oda planned OP, he intended to Name Sanji "Naruto", but then "Naruto" got released, so I wonder when did he come up with this whole Vinsmoke Ichiji Niji Sanji Yonji Story?

Strooger

@Roronoa:

When Oda planned OP, he intended to Name Sanji "Naruto", but then "Naruto" got released, so I wonder when did he come up with this whole Vinsmoke Ichiji Niji Sanji Yonji Story?

Probably not too long ago, it wouldn't surprise me if he made up that storyline to give Sanji something to do, simply as a response to people who were dissapointed in his lack of spotlight and good fights. But there is a possibility that he foreshadowed it when Sanji started calling himself Prince in Arabasta.

Kurloz

@Captain:

"You and that pathetic chef would make a cute couple."
"If you don't mind the company of a cripple, I'm sure we can arrange it so she's a member of your personal staff."

These lines have to be Mangastream exaggerations, right? They feel like far too much next to the kinds of threats and insults Oda would usually write, even for a callous character like Niiji.

Otherwise, fantastic chapter. Lots of interesting stuff to think about.

99% of everything gangstastream writes is an exaggeration. Just comparing their translation of the last chapter to Viz's side by side is hilarious because of how much superfluous dialogue they insert to make themselves sound fancier.

Roronoa Zacho

@sggupta:

imo it'd be better to wait a while before deciding that
She may not get it as bad as sanji,but she probably would be at least heckled.also i believe,though i may be wrong that ichiji is stronger than her so she can't be more dominant than him,not to mention judge expects a lot from her and would probably punish her if she disobeys him.also,it is not necessary for reiju to be very good if she is not evil.in the end,i think she cares more about herself and her position than sanji,or anyone else for that matter.She is just not sadistic and a bully
Reiji's dialogue from last chapter comes at me,and i think is relevant to what we are discussing."half-hearted kindness only leads to more suffering".i think she believes that her standing up for sanji isn't gonna achieve anything,and would only worsen it.A similar to what happened with Cosette.Or that he will have to stand up for himself
though i think Reiju is surrounded by a lot of mystery to say anything concretely about her.why wasn't she mentioned by the doctor in his report?why was she born maybe separately from the brothers?and perhaps most importantly,why is she a girl?i mean,this may sound strange but we know that most of the soldiers in Germa are male clones,and Vinsmoke siblings are GM.that means their sex could easily have been set.so why have a girl when judge seems to think(and maybe is the case a little)that males are better soldiers than females?

Oda definetly displayed her older than her Brothers. When they stood in line as Kids, Reiju is significantly taller than the Boys. Interesting sidenote: the WG-Symbol has 5 "dots" which stand for the four blues and the GL and Judge "made" 5 children. Is his Long-term Agenda to rule the whole world and not only North blue? Every child would represent a pillar and an own leader of an army, that was the line that brought me to this thought.

sggupta

@Roronoa:

When Oda planned OP, he intended to Name Sanji "Naruto", but then "Naruto" got released, so I wonder when did he come up with this whole Vinsmoke Ichiji Niji Sanji Yonji Story?

Yeah,i forgot about that.that means that if naruto didn't exist,we'd not get the VInsmokes??
i personally am liking this arc.i'm also more interested in what's happening than ever before.so i'd say,i appreciate Naruto just for this arc.
edit:@Roronoa Zacho yeah could be

RomanceDawn

Oh man what a chapter. :(

I don't really have the words at the moment, but everything about Sanji falling behind, no potential and so on, it's like an echo of the power level fans. It's so fascinating and so sad at the same time. It's as if all of it was intentional and by design so Oda could lead us here for all of this.

Seafarer33

@Captain:

It's not til after that Cosette is mentioned again.

The whole incident started with Sanji yelling "What the hell…did you do to Cosette" on the previous page. While both readings may be possible, I really hope that Niji's line about "that pathetic excuse for a chef" was in reply to this sudden outburst, and not a reaction to Ichiji's comment. The later would be downright sick. :wassat:

Or maybe Niji actually says something more neutral like "So, you do care for him, who would have thought" and MS are being their usual. I'll be thankful if someone with access to the raw and a decent understanding of Japanese wants to shed some light on this.

Roronoa Zacho

@Strooger:

Probably not too long ago, it wouldn't surprise me if he made up that storyline to give Sanji something to do, simply as a response to people who were dissapointed in his lack of spotlight and good fights. But there is a possibility that he foreshadowed it when Sanji started calling himself Prince in Arabasta.

I guess he hasn't wished for being a prince until he met Vivi. But the roots of this arc could have started there back then.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RomanceDawn:

Oh man what a chapter. :(

I don't really have the words at the moment, but everything about Sanji falling behind, no potential and so on, it's like an echo of the power level fans. It's so fascinating and so sad at the same time. It's as if all of it was intentional and by design so Oda could lead us here for all of this.

Yep, before this arc is done, Sanji-fanboys will have cried out of sadness and of joy. At least I hope so.

Strooger

@Roronoa:

I guess he hasn't wished for being a prince until he met Vivi. But the roots of this arc could have started there back then.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Yep, before this arc is done, Sanji-fanboys will have cried out of sadness and of joy. At least I hope so.

I would be very impressed if Oda had it all planned out back then. I hope he'll release some form of memoirs or have an interview later down the line where we sort of get a ''making off'' One Piece, where he explains what he planned and didn't plan this whole time.

The Franky Tank

@sggupta:

i think that's a huge stretch.Just curious,do you think that all the scientists researching GENES and Genetic Modification and cloning want to be God or are evil?it could just be due to his curiosity as a scientist to unravel everything about the world.
and as you said he could also regret his decision.though even if he doesn not,it does not necessarily mean he wanted to use his discoveries for evil

he wants to kill him off,but i don't think he actually could.in the end,he is still his son and also maybe reminds him of his mother.(?)
sorta like tyrion and tywin

Yeah, that was a huge stretch on my part. As far as we know Vegapunk found the secret to life which lead to the ability to cloning and anything else that came with it. Just because he learned of that doesn't mean he used it for nefarious purposes, and started cloning just to get results and learn. My mistake was to assume what Judge was doing was the same mindset Vegapunk had, which was a mistake on my part, and also bad wording on my part. Though I do stick with his regret part, because seeing how some of that discovery has been used he may not like to be known as the father behind it because his discovery of it.

BlackLegEd

@Strooger:

Probably not too long ago, it wouldn't surprise me if he made up that storyline to give Sanji something to do, simply as a response to people who were dissapointed in his lack of spotlight and good fights. But there is a possibility that he foreshadowed it when Sanji started calling himself Prince in Arabasta.

For all we know he probably created Sanji's backstory when created Sanji :p

Shadowgreed

Pathetic, they have to mention Zeff in order to hurt Sanji. They satisfaction I'll get once Luffy declares Zeff Restaurant his territory will be humongous.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BeariousJones

@Kishido:

Yonji is the biggest asshole… he kicked a damn turtle

@BlackLegEd:

#Justice for the turtle. But seriously kinda adorable to Sanji care about a rat and turtle.
Also where does Sanji rank in sad One Piece childhood tier list?

Pekoms will get revenge against Yonji for the turtle.

kouch_lee

Not a bad chapter, but it didnt get me as much as a more emotional flashback would. Some people are expecting a more emotional part 2 with Momji, so hope that happens?

Not too hot on all the "Science!" and cloning going on. . .though it might get very cathartic if/when Sanji NEVER awakens those "clone powers" and kicks their asses by virtue of just having improved a shitton by going on crazy adventures.

Of course, that goes down the drain in the off-chance Oda decides to use that as a power up, but I honestly doubt it, considering Sanji nearly puked when he saw humans being cloned.

Strooger

@BlackLegEd:

For all we know he probably created Sanji's backstory when created Sanji :p

Hm… Considering Oda didn't plan for One Piece to be nearly this long, I find it sort of hard to believe. Not that I think it's impossible for him to have planned it from the beginning, but I believe that if he had it written down in early notes, it would have come to play earlier.

Mr. Luffy

Chapter seems to clear up that Niji did in fact beat up Cosette given that he admitted it and it was clearly a means to lure him into a nostalgic family beatdown.

Also this one further suggests that Reiji may be one of the few (only?) "good" siblings given that she cared about Sanji as a kid and it seems very likely that she has either been playing along with the rest all this time (ala Viola), or has since been converted into the side of evil.

hosemisnuba

@Maju:

would it be too clichèè for sanji to somehow "unlock" the gene modifications that have been latent for so long and get a power up? :P

It might be 'cliche', but its way better having a possible explanation for such a random power up than having none at all.

BlackLegEd

I wonder if cloning is how Momonosuke fruit was created…

Watch-man

@DaeJi:

So, "Poison Pink" can eat poison, and "Electric Blue" has electric powers. I wonder what Ichiji's and Yonji's powers are.

Ichiji has lazorrrrr lol

parklane21

Chapter is really awesome. Just done reading it a third time! Still can't get over this clone thingie. Too many implications.

Can't wait for the next chapter of Sanji's flashback. Pretty sure there's more to it than just Reiju freeing him. Remember that he managed to cross from North Blue to East Blue, which is considered to be not easy. He maybe got another savior like Law's Corazon, maybe working undercover there. It won't be a surprise if he (or maybe a 'she') instilled the "never hurt women" virtue on him. Probably the one who serves him food while he's in cage. Then, he died so Sanji can get to East Blue, because it's the most peaceful sea and Sanji's gentle heart has no place there.

Well, this is how all flashback goes. There's always a hero that died.

wolfwood

All super-science leads to Vegapunk. But hey atleast we've gotten to know why their science branch is so admired.

And his brothers really don't come across as genuine threats since they need to blackmail him in order to stop him manhandling them.

But then again the Germa are only a small part of the overall threat in this arc. So that makes sense i guess.

Dranza

Don't want to seem like a know it all or whatever but come on whoever thought Reiju was some undercover bitch needs to get their eyesight tested there was nothing to suggest she was the one who beat up Cosette, she simply doesn't want to be treated the way Sanji was treated, now that makes sense.

So what I'm confused about is did Sanji let Niji attack him after he threatened his east blue family? The spoilers made it sound like he took Sanji's blow head on and didn't flinch, but the chapter shows him flying across the room.

As far as hierarchy goes it's Ichiji>Reiju>Niji>Yonji

Niji is my favorite he doesn't hold back at all and looks badass.

If ALL the siblings genes were mutated then Sanji has a dormant power that he's not aware of? Maybe his Max potential is higher than the rest but like Judge pointed out he's going to have to work a billion times harder to reach it and surpass them.

SomeRandomGuy

@Kishido:

And why Judge hasn't simply killed Sanji off?

Maybe he wanted to keep him around as a test subject to figure what went wrong with his alterations.

killerbee1000

I'm just gonna say this: Judge is the One Piece equivalent of Tywin Lannister.

Kishido

Again the question… We know Reiju is older as the bros... But why has she been ignored in the list that the bros are "on track".

Do you think she has enhancements as well like the poison as I have doubted before?

And please show me Mommy Vinsmoke. I bet she is the only one with the same eyebrow pattern as Sanji... Not only maybe there will be the explanation why Sanji never will hurt a woman but also she will have some role that Sanji has no "enhancement" in him, even if the docors thought so

CaptainAppleJack

That Duval kept his face hidden using an iron mask seems very ironic now.

parklane21

I just thought of something clever recalling some biology lesson. The scientist said that Sanji's gene modification has been successful. However, the traits expected from him never manifest despite all the training. The frustration is getting worse since all the others were fully manifesting theirs. We know that what causes traits to manifests are Hormones. You may say the environment, growing, or something else, but ultimately this things just trigger our specific glands to produce hormones to trigger creation of proteins that are already coded on our DNA so the body can mutate.

And you probably know where I'm going on this. It just happened that Sanji spends the last 2 years with the master of hormones, Iva-san. I won't be surprised if he has already triggered his mutation once but is now suppressing it. Thinking he still wants to stay human, or something.

Bigivel

@Dranza:

As far as hierarchy goes it's Ichiji>Reiju>Niji>Yonji

By the flashback it seems Reiju is the best, she and Ichiji are always in front, but while you see Ichiji doing a lot of effort she is shown doing it without much at all. For that I believe she is the strongest of them.

parklane21

@Kishido:

Again the question… We know Reiju is older as the bros... But why has she been ignored in the list that the bros are "on track".

Probably, just a callback to Kuina again. Men tends to outgrow women eventually. Its not a stretsh for Judge to think the same so his expectation for her is not as high as the males.

Kishido

another question…

So the children do have the curly patter... And let us assume that Judge hasn't it... The same curly patterns are found on DFs? Do you think there is a connection?

Furthe more if someone can clean it up... Do you think one of the books here

http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/840/3683/17

are the DF book Sanji mentioned to have read in the past?

Greenmane

@Monkey:

Did you completely miss Niji doing the same thing to Sanji like three panels later or what the hell. The black mail comment wasn't made in duress at all, he had already ambushed Sanji himself without Sanji noticing, and without any visible damage taken from Sanji's kick.

Niji did take visible damage he had to fix his face.
Also, its obvious that sanji could have broken out of Nijis grasp. Niji direcly blackmailed Sanji after he grabbed him
@Monkey:

Oda hasn't shown at all that Sanji secretly outclasses his brothers, and the blackmail element has nothing at all to do with combat. Its to keep Sanji cooperative with the wedding ceremony and subsequent alliance marriage.

I guess you already forget that Sanji beat Yonji easily. it wasnt just to keep him cooperative with the wedding. Niji said "just try and fight back…I dare you all the blood spilled over at east blue will be at your hands"

Matuzalem

Am I the only one who played the Darth Vader theme inside the head after reading the clones explanation? XD

Dranza

@Bigivel:

By the flashback it seems Reiju is the best, she and Ichiji are always in front, but while you see Ichiji doing a lot of effort she is shown doing it without much at all. For that I believe she is the strongest of them.

That's what I thought too until she basically told Sanji she's afraid of being bullied, hard to bully someone who's the strongest especially with these lot who respect strength above all.

Kishido

Who the fuck gives a shit about the "fight" right now.

Fact will be… At least Niji will be fucked by Sanji later on...

Yonji is already a non factor.

Honestly... The first time ever I think Sanji do not only should beat all 3 of his bros but also Judge. But I bet Ichiji or Judge will be for Luffy... Whoever will be stronger

Captain M

@Kurloz:

99% of everything gangstastream writes is an exaggeration. Just comparing their translation of the last chapter to Viz's side by side is hilarious because of how much superfluous dialogue they insert to make themselves sound fancier.

"Fancy" is not the term that comes to mind when I see that much needless swearing and slang But yeah this is exactly why I subscribe to Viz.

Mangastream just needs an actual editor for their scripts so badly. You can have fun with the dialogue without making every line so bloated. And there's the matter of consistency. They're so purist about character and attack and devil fruit names being written in Japanese, even if there's an obvious, direct translation, or about following Oda's questionable romanizations to the letter. They claim this is in the name of accuracy, but then they do this to every incidental line. It's such a scattershot operation.

If you're gonna go a liberal translation I figure you might as well go all out. Find some more puns or jokes to work in instead of just upping the vulgarity. Rename characters whose names are untranslatable japanese jokes. Do the same with moves. Take the pop culture references and run with them: Chapter 840: The San in the Iron Mask. I wouldn't mind them going off script so much if it was at least fun to read.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Seafarer33:

The whole incident started with Sanji yelling "What the hell…did you do to Cosette" on the previous page. While both readings may be possible, I really hope that Niji's line about "that pathetic excuse for a chef" was in reply to this sudden outburst, and not a reaction to Ichiji's comment. The later would be downright sick. :wassat:

Or maybe Niji actually says something more neutral like "So, you do care for him, who would have thought" and MS are being their usual. I'll be thankful if someone with access to the raw and a decent understanding of Japanese wants to shed some light on this.

The fact that it's so sick is why I'm making such a big deal. I'd like them to be coupling him with Cosette, but one sentence about her between two about their East Blue hostage, and right after a quip on Sanji's sexuality, is hard to justify.

Say she is being referred to in the raw version there, it could be something like "it's amazing the kind of trash you care about, one worthless chef after the other." I'm gonna be so shocked if Mangastream is even in the ballpark of the original meaning here.

Kurloz

@Seafarer33:

inb4 we're going to learn later in the flashback that she was the one who released him from his prison and the iron mask, unbeknown to the rest of the family (and possibly Sanji himself). His chilvary towards women may or may not have stemmed from this.

If she's the cause of Sanji's diehard white knighting then I'd imagine he'd show more reverence towards her rather than just slightly less animosity than he shows towards the rest of the family. But maybe Oda's gonna be inconsistent here.

Mr0

@parklane21:

I just thought of something clever recalling some biology lesson. The scientist said that Sanji's gene modification has been successful. However, the traits expected from him never manifest despite all the training. The frustration is getting worse since all the others were fully manifesting theirs. We know that what causes traits to manifests are Hormones. You may say the environment, growing, or something else, but ultimately this things just trigger our specific glands to produce hormones to trigger creation of proteins that are already coded on our DNA so the body can mutate.

And you probably know where I'm going on this. It just happened that Sanji spends the last 2 years with the master of hormones, Iva-san. I won't be surprised if he has already triggered his mutation once but is now suppressing it. Thinking he still wants to stay human, or something.

That's not how hormones work, they don't interact with genes, they themselves come from genes. IIRC DNA sequences are read, produce different proteins, some of which become hormones, and the abundance or lack of those hormones determines some physical traits. So unless Ivankov knew which hormones to add/boost inside of Sanji, your theory seems very unlikely. Also you can't control your hormones, or hormonal responses, so Sanji would have no way of suppressing them.