Arlong Park Forums

Does it really? Could you just describe what happened in the pages where they clashed?

Like just a factual breakdown of what happend, without any add-ons, guesses or opinions.

I thought I covered it in the last dozen posts or so. Must I repeat all that crap again? It's not a complicated scene. Since Haki was just shyly peeking out at that time, there are no discernible signs of someone using it. Mihawk might have been using it the entire time, or just during Buggy slice, or he might not have been using it.

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It's becoming pretty clear neither of sides will budge and I think everything that could have been covered was covered. Last I want to do is keep beating a dead horse until I get banned or something, like some other dudes in the past.

Better to just agree to disagree. :ninja:

wolfwood

I thought I covered it in the last dozen posts or so. Must I repeat all that crap again? It's not a complicated scene. Since Haki was just shyly peeking out at that time, there are no discernible signs of someone using it. Mihawk might have been using it the entire time, or just during Buggy slice, or he might not have been using it.

That's alot of added speculation though. I would say that the barebones of what we know for certain is this, Mihawk throws one slash that slices him in half, and after a small side-bar with Luffy and Buggy follows it up with a flurry of slashes that reduce him to ribbons. There is no signs of this harming Buggy. This is where i'd say that Occam's razor comes in

It's becoming pretty clear neither of sides will budge and I think everything that could have been covered was covered. Last I want to do is keep beating a dead horse until I get banned or something, like some other dudes in the past.

Better to just agree to disagree. :ninja:

I have no idea why you'd think that this would be a possible outcome of this little chat.

You guys must have a pretty dim view of AP's moderation staff

Shadowgreed

If it was something more than a Gag shouldn't that be followed by some sort of 'what's going on' bubble from Mihawk thou?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

desa

That's alot of added speculation though. I would say that the barebones of what we know for certain is this, Mihawk throws one slash that slices him in half, and after a small side-bar with Luffy and Buggy follows it up with a flurry of slashes that reduce him to ribbons. There is no signs of this harming Buggy. This is where i'd say that Occam's razor comes in.

I doubt Occam razor really help there. You either think it's a gag and people are overthinking or it's Oda putting the debate to bed and people trying to hard to justify Mihawk ineffectiveness.

Both side are using the Occam's razor, just from different brands.

Shadowgreed

You guys must have a pretty dim view of AP's moderation staff

Now that you mentioned that, I don't really have that sort of view of you guys but there was this one guy who got banned for posting 'out of the box' theories and till this day I still don't know why that happened.

This guy had a theory about Big Mama and he specifically focused on the Three Eye girl back then, but is just the past.

Razh asked about it once too.

Robby

I think that one assumption we do have to make, and its the one place Oda kinda blew it, is that the hardening/attacking haki came out of nowhere.

Haki itself, king's ambition, Oda had all along, there were tons of little clues along the way, including stuff that was cut in order to pace out chapter 100 but appeared in the novelization of Loguetown, Blackbeard's quote, mantra, retroactively Shank's stare, etc. So Oda had haki in mind in some form all along.

But the actual attack style? Not so much. Especially since some of the CP9 forms become pointless and excessive training in a world where it exists.

During the war Oda obviously realized that having it be invisible and people constantly saying "Is that haki!?!" just wasn't going to work, which is when he added the blackening visual after the timeskip.

Now, its established that King's ambition is super rare. But actual just haki? Its common. All of Amazon Lily has it, every vice admiral has it, and it seems like any semi-competent fighter in the new world has it.

It's one of the rare cases where Oda dropped the ball a little, and we have to sort of inform our opinion on it a little as a result.

It's a case where you have to make a very basic assumption with it, and just sort of pretend/assume that in the first half of the series, it was invisible because Luffy couldn't see it yet, so we as an audience, basically following the adventure through his lens, couldn't.

Because in the real world, from an author standpoint, it's just clear that Oda invented that aspect a little late.

But in-universe? To assume that none of the big timers were using it ever? When its a super standard essential thing? That logias were just going around wholly unchecked? Its silly. Given the ability is heavily used and super common, as an audience we have to assume it was being used quite a bit by the strong guys in the first half of the series… (And its kind of insane to think that Croc, Moria, and Kuma didn't have it when Usopp, Tashigi, Bellamy and Coby do. A case might be made for one warlord not knowing for reasons... but Mihawk and Dofla never showed it prior to timeskip, but obviously had it) just without the visual cues. Unless we're to believe it was just discovered immediately prior to the timeskip an everyone in the world started training it, which is just silly.

So when it makes sense for a character to have been using it (such as Garp's fist of love, or Hancock's or Whitebeard or the admirals's attacks which were explicitly stated to have haki) it HAS to be assumed that haki was being used, even without a visual cue.

There is zero reason to assume Mihawk, the greatest swordsman in the world , who gives explicit instructions to always use haki to protect your blade, would be befuddled by a devil fruit for dozens of attacks before switching to what everyone else has been doing completely automatically. Especially when he had just said to himself, he was going to test Luffy with everything he had. (Same as the whitebeard attack.) There's no evidence that he didn't try his best, and plenty of context and reason, including his own words, to say he did.

wolfwood

@desa:

I doubt Occam razor really help there. You either think it's a gag and people are overthinking or it's Oda putting the debate to bed and people trying to hard to justify Mihawk ineffectiveness.

Both side are using the Occam's razor, just from different brands.

Personally i'd say that taking the stance that it's a throw-away joke and hence holds no intent or meaning beyond laughs involves one more assumption than to simply take what is being presented for what it is being presented as.

@Shadowgreed:

Now that you mentioned that, I don't really have that sort of view of you guys but there was this one guy who got banned for posting 'out of the box' theories and till this day I still don't know why that happened.

This guy had a theory about Big Mama and he specifically focused on the Three Eye girl back then, but is just the past.

Razh asked about it once too.

Can't say that it rings a bell. But then again i haven't really been paying attention lately.

http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v53/c516/6.html

So when it makes sense for a character to have been using it (such as Garp's fist of love, or Hancock's or Whitebeard or the admirals's attacks which were explicitly stated to have haki) it HAS to be assumed that haki was being used, even without a visual cue.

http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v53/c516/7.html

Or the Kuja's perfectly normal looking arrows.

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Does anybody else feel a little uncomfortable whenever Greg browses a thread?

It's like having your teacher looking over your shoulder when your taking a math test

desa

Personally i'd say that taking the stance that it's a throw-away joke and hence holds no intent or meaning beyond laughs involves one more assumption than to simply take what is being presented for what it is being presented as.

That makes you a case 2.

Other side could say that you think the scene have other intent other than laughs is you reading to much into it. You don't try to find the meaning of Nami beating Luffy to a messy pulp, you laugh and move on.

Occam razor isn't really a good tool in that argument because both parties think the other side is overthinking it.

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Does anybody else feel a little uncomfortable whenever Greg browses a thread?

It's like having your teacher looking over your shoulder when your taking a math test

He's probably wondering why those silly kids still can't understand something so obvious.

K. Kira XXIII

Did anyone mention this: Mihawk saw what Buggy had been doing with the cameras, and knew the marines were focusing on him. So Mihawk cut him a bunch of times, to elevate Buggy's stature and also propose his Shichibukai status to the government, effectively planting a ticking BUGGY BOMB in whatever future arc.

This is a spoiler from Hunter x Hunter: Election Arc

! Kinda like Ging let Leorio punch him to add some salsa on that fuego.

wolfwood

@desa:

That makes you a case 2.

Other side could say that you think the scene have other intent other than laughs is you reading to much into it. You don't try to find the meaning of Nami beating Luffy to a messy pulp, you laugh and move on.

Occam razor isn't really a good tool in that argument because both parties think the other side is overthinking it.

Would you say that they are equal assumptions even when we know that Oda has a well-documented habit of coming back to aspects of the story previously thought to be gags?

RomanceDawn

I'm still trying to figure out if invisible Haki and the blackening/hardening are two different things. When it was described to Luffy it was said to be like an invisible armor. Before the time skip when we were getting bits and pieces of Haki from Saboady to the end of the war I could understand not wanting to blacken anything until Oda was ready to reveal it in full but now that we have several post time skip scenes where not everything goes black when haki is in use what is the difference? One is just harder and a more advanced version? I could live with that.

My own head cannon for the differences between Iron Body and using Color of Arms defensively is that Iron Body allows the users body to act as if it's made entirely out of metal where is CoA gives the user an outer shell(that seems to be stronger and has more utility lol). Luckily we should be getting insight on CP9 at some point so hopefully differences between the abilities are addressed.

What ever the case I'm cool with Rokushiki existing along side Haki. At the very least it still seems valuable to Oda as the government doesn't just reserve its Rokushiki training to the CP's but they teach it to their fruitless or Zoan marines as well.

It's all clearly based on real world martial arts but it still makes me wonder. The guys doing their chi gong and hold perfectly still taking those huge hits, I wonder can they just go walking around like the juggernaut and not be affected by people whaling on them or do they need to be still like that?

wolfwood

If anything the six forms only seem more useful when it can be teamed up with ambition.

That and most of them fill a void ambition doesn't adress

Robby

And yet supe rmega trained assassin Lucchi didn't have the extremely useful technique for penetrating the defense of devil fruit users. Sure, he was managing to do damage anyway, but it's really weird to think there was any reason for him not to know it or that he would have been absolutely stomped by any logia.

KageKageKing

@Tamiel:

Did anyone mention this: Mihawk saw what Buggy had been doing with the cameras, and knew the marines were focusing on him. So Mihawk cut him a bunch of times, to elevate Buggy's stature and also propose his Shichibukai status to the government, effectively planting a ticking BUGGY BOMB in whatever future arc.

This is a spoiler from Hunter x Hunter: Election Arc

! Kinda like Ging let Leorio punch him to add some salsa on that fuego.

I don't think they had that Den Den Mushi when Buggy faced Mihawk.

wolfwood

And yet supe rmega trained assassin Lucci didn't have the extremely useful technique for penetrating the defense of devil fruit users. Sure, he was managing to do damage anyway, but it's really weird to think there was any reason for him not to know it or that he would have been absolutely stomped by any logia.

And yet the BC vice-admirals were awed the THE Lucci was on the case.

It does feel a bit odd doesn't it

RomanceDawn

You just know Lucci, Croc and Moriah are going to come back with Haki in hand I think it will be then that I'll really get annoyed.

I would absolutely love love love, if Croc was just one of those people who couldn't and still can't draw it out and utilize Haki at all. I think it would play well into him running from the New World and trying to find other means of becoming Pirate King.

Lucci's going to come back and explain how his Haki training was put on hold because of his Water 7 mission and I'll be like :getlost:.

Long John Silvers Rayleigh

Mihawks odd he certainly didnt hold back with any of his sword attacks but he didnt continuously pursue luffy like smoker, it was like if you want to get past here youll have to go through me, and then a bunch of dudes kept interrupting his fight but he didnt chase after luffy even when him and vista stopped fighting

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@RomanceDawn:

You just know Lucci, Croc and Moriah are going to come back with Haki in hand I think it will be then that I'll really get annoyed.

I would absolutely love love love, if Croc was just one of those people who couldn't and still can't draw it out and utilize Haki at all. I think it would play well into him running from the New World and trying to find other means of becoming Pirate King.

Lucci's going to come back and explain how his Haki training was put on hold because of his Water 7 mission and I'll be like :getlost:.

During his fight with luffy there were many scenes where he as a human and leopard man strikes luffy a rubberman and he is drawn like he is feeling some sort of pain from the attac, that might be oda trying to make the fight look more intense instead of lufy no selling it because rob lucci only had two non blunt force attacks, his finger pistols and his tempest kicks, but I remember it being there. I think he could just get away with never explaining it WRT lucci having it, and one could even be like oh maybe had a bit if haki.

Physical attacks on luffy are kind of based on force / area aka a needle or anything that comes to a point or blade can pierce through him, but a giant can lay a sea king skeleton on him and he's in no pain and with punches its kind of inconsistent but they leave more of an effect on him

Jabra

Let's not forget everyones favorite haki grandmaster, Captain Kuro!

!

The True Saviour

@RomanceDawn:

You just know Lucci, Croc and Moriah are going to come back with Haki in hand I think it will be then that I'll really get annoyed.

I would absolutely love love love, if Croc was just one of those people who couldn't and still can't draw it out and utilize Haki at all. I think it would play well into him running from the New World and trying to find other means of becoming Pirate King.

Lucci's going to come back and explain how his Haki training was put on hold because of his Water 7 mission and I'll be like :getlost:.

But Lucci does have a good excuse for not learning Haki. His mission undercover AND learning the Rokushiki techniques took up all his time. You act as if he was always a master and didn't waste time mastering those.

Also the Rokushiki are definitely more useful than having Haki. Mastering these techniques makes you a super human and the abilities gained are borderline DF-like. Haki on the other hand is much less impressive. And it's really not worth it because of how rare Logias are anyway. And even the sea is everywhere so a master like Lucci would use that to fight Logias. Also for his job mastering the Rokushiki techniques is more useful. So yeah Lucci not having haki makes sense and isn't a big deal.

Moriah is a weakling anyway so he doesn't matter. And Crocodile seemed to have given up on trying to advance through will power and sought other means.

desa

Would you say that they are equal assumptions even when we know that Oda has a well-documented habit of coming back to aspects of the story previously thought to be gags?

The good old I will ask you a fair question while sneakily putting my argument so that disagreeing with me seems unreasonable.

He also have plenty simple moments that just made for one quick joke. So yes.

But if you have to suppose that Oda gag is a way for Oda to tease the future, you seems to be doing more analysis than required by the Occam razor. But if you want to go that way, I can point out that such gag are usually pointed out such as Sanji's comment or Chopper worrying about Sanji's health and mental state. No such thing happened with Buggy, just like Nami punches or Luffy shooting Ace and Smoker, the funny moment passed without anyone commenting on the oddness of it.

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Moriah is not a weakling.

Razh

I have no idea why you'd think that this would be a possible outcome of this little chat.

You guys must have a pretty dim view of AP's moderation staff

Not of this little chat, but if there are multiple little chats like this one, it might be a deciding factor in the future.

I don't want to waste my positive points on a discussion like this, especially when the most of the other camp refuses to acknowledge just a possibility they might be wrong. Don't see what's the problem. I can easilly admit that there's a chance Oda designed Buggy's devil fruit to split before he is cut. I just don't think that's likely, considering all the stuff I already wrote.

Like Robby said, Marineford was really inconsistent. Or had to be, at least. Sort of a transitional period for Haki. You have rookies who have just learned about it (Luffy), rookies who have just learned about it but it makes no sense they wouldn't know about it (Buggy, Smoker), top class fighters who are experts, top class fighters who should know about it, but don't (Crocodile, Moria). All these named characters who can use Haki and only 2 died. Couple of them sustained lasting injuries. We had Smoker referring to Boa's skill as "Kuja Haki", as if it's not a skill most top marines are perfectly capable of using. We had Mihawk splitting glacier from the distance as a side effect of a regular slash aimed at Luffy, but we also had Mihawk using minimal force with no collateral damage to deal with newkamas and Daz Bones. It's not like you can draw a lot of solid conclusions from that mess.

uniaka ikuzakas

This post is deleted!

K. Kira XXIII

@KageKageKing:

I don't think they had that Den Den Mushi when Buggy faced Mihawk.

I figured I wouldn't be able to find the exact sequence, but after reading a summary it happend after. So I repeat what I said, excluding the camara part, because I meant to lighten up the mood on this circular discussion. Alternatively you could say that Mihawk wanted to see the extent of the devil fruit power to resist cutting attacks without the use of haki to harm him.

I thought that the 6 forms the marines use were the basics for haki training. Like kami-e is the start level of observation haki, tekkai for armament.

The True Saviour

@Tamiel:

I thought that the 6 forms the marines use were the basics for haki training. Like kami-e is the start level of observation haki, tekkai for armament.

If anything Rokushiki seems to be way more advanced than anything Haki related we have seen so far. So it may be that haki inspired Rokushiki and it's a more advanced fighting style.

K. Kira XXIII

@The:

If anything Rokushiki seems to be way more advanced than anything Haki related we have seen so far. So it may be that haki inspired Rokushiki and it's a more advanced fighting style.

I agree, to elaborate on what I said. The marines are aware of haki and its forms, and know the importance of this power to fight against pirates. So through martial arts, they teach their soldiers techniques that will help them understand the essence of haki while providing its combat prowess before any of the soldiers develop haki. However once they do, their knowledge of these 6 forms will help them adapt and have an exponential increase in their combat ability.

RomanceDawn

@Long:

During his fight with luffy there were many scenes where he as a human and leopard man strikes luffy a rubberman and he is drawn like he is feeling some sort of pain from the attac, that might be oda trying to make the fight look more intense instead of lufy no selling it because rob lucci only had two non blunt force attacks, his finger pistols and his tempest kicks, but I remember it being there. I think he could just get away with never explaining it WRT lucci having it, and one could even be like oh maybe had a bit if haki.

Oh yeah I almost forgot about that. Luffy also took a knee to the belly as well right and reacted like he was in pain? Or was that anime only? I take back my last statement. If it's "explained" that Lucci had Haki all along I'd be cool with it.

It's just a little odd that Luffy didn't do his usual, "why does it hurt?!

wolfwood

@desa:

The good old I will ask you a fair question while sneakily putting my argument so that disagreeing with me seems unreasonable.

I didn't realize that this was a thing with it's own name and label.

Here i thought i was just making a fair point.

Not of this little chat, but if there are multiple little chats like this one, it might be a deciding factor in the future.

Sounds like we'd give the KGB a run for their money. Keeping folders on all these dissendents.

And making 'em disappear when they get too uncomfortable.

desa

I didn't realize that this was a thing with it's own name and label.

Here i thought i was just making a fair point.

I like labels, it's nothing special really.

I answered to your point. He also have plenty simple moments that just made for one quick joke

Funny enough, I don't think haki can cut Buggy. However the scene people are referencing is far from as cut and dry they are making it to be. Both side use the Occam Razor, they just use it in different fashion.

Razh

Sounds like we'd give the KGB a run for their money. Keeping folders on all these dissendents.

And making 'em disappear when they get too uncomfortable.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :ninja:

But seriously, I remember one of the mods, possibly Robby, explaining the decision after last year's purge. Couple of members were banned not because of any specific post, but because of history of being a pain, to put it simply. One of them, Magi, was first banned from Dragonball thread after an insane discussion about the size of the moon or something (not really sure I remember this right), in which he was painfully stubborn. Much like I was here, lol.

Other than that, I can tell when the discussion has gone for too long. And there's only so little that can be said about this specific matter until or if it gets more attention in manga.

Anyway, I didn't vote here until yesterday, and couple of choices with 2-3 voters really stand out. I'd really like to see the reasoning behind BM, Kong, Weeble (was the poll created before he was revealed?) or Kaidou being the big bad.

wolfwood

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :ninja:

But seriously, I remember one of the mods, possibly Robby, explaining the decision after last year's purge. Couple of members were banned not because of any specific post, but because of history of being a pain, to put it simply. One of them, Magi, was first banned from Dragonball thread after an insane discussion about the size of the moon or something (not really sure I remember this right), in which he was painfully stubborn. Much like I was here, lol.

Even in the case that we were actively culling people for being annoying you wouldn't even make the honorable mentions.

You have no idea how deep that shit-posting rabbit hole goes if you think what you (and i) just posted even counts as strike one.

Monkey King

But seriously, I remember one of the mods, possibly Robby, explaining the decision after last year's purge. Couple of members were banned not because of any specific post, but because of history of being a pain, to put it simply. One of them, Magi, was first banned from Dragonball thread after an insane discussion about the size of the moon or something (not really sure I remember this right), in which he was painfully stubborn. Much like I was here, lol.

As someone who butts heads with you a bunch I can assure you you're not in the purge category. You're a vanilla person. I am more likely to be banned then you.
Magi was a raging moron with a snotty attitude as I recall. One who was gladly trying to bring over Narutofan Battledome type conversations, which are a huge no no.

madriano

Geez Razh, don't even compare yourself to Magi. That guy would only post cancerous shit all over the place.

Robby

Besides, we're already past the annual April 1 purge. There weren't that many absolute terrible posters on the radar this year.

You'll have to be pretty bad to get banned on your own. And we generally give an official warning or two first. You'll know when you have an infraction.

But no, we don't give those out just for disagreeing on something. Cripes. The whole point of this place is discussion.

wolfwood

@madriano:

Geez Razh, don't even compare yourself to Magi. That guy would only post cancerous shit all over the place.

And even he is only the very tip of the iceberg.

Now if we're talking true, weaponized, insanity shit, then we need to bring in someone like AGOG.

Razh

Even in the case that we were actively culling people for being annoying you wouldn't even make the honorable mentions.

You have no idea how deep that shit-posting rabbit hole goes if you think what you (and i) just posted even counts as strike one.

Oh, I've seen some dark stuff. :happy:

@Monkey:

As someone who butts heads with you a bunch I can assure you you're not in the purge category. You're a vanilla person. I am more likely to be banned then you.
Magi was a raging moron with a snotty attitude as I recall. One who was gladly trying to bring over Narutofan Battledome type conversations, which are a huge no no.

Anyway, I googled to see what the hell the discussion was about. Most of the stuff after "NARUTO FORUMS BATTLEDOME autist" made me giggle out loud.
http://www.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=18408&page=278

@madriano:

Geez Razh, don't even compare yourself to Magi. That guy would only post cancerous shit all over the place.

Just the most obvious example I could think of. I've discussed with him enough to understand why he was banned.

Besides, we're already past the annual April 1 purge. There weren't that many absolute terrible posters on the radar this year.

You'll have to be pretty bad to get banned on your own. And we generally give an official warning or two first. You'll know when you have an infraction.

But no, we don't give those out just for disagreeing on something. Cripes. The whole point of this place is discussion.

I was a lot worse in the previous forum. I must be slowly getting more mature while discussing rubber pirate comic.

ArmamentHero

And even he is only the very tip of the iceberg.

Now if we're talking true, weaponized, insanity shit, then we need to bring in someone like AGOG.

I remember a certain poster who got banned multiple times, but still came back like a tumor. I dare not say the name, but he was a very avid "Sabo is Alive" supporter.

Robby

But I wasn't ever banned for insisting Sabo was alive.

ArmamentHero

But I wasn't ever banned for insisting Sabo was alive.

Nope, but I know he was quite the rude one. Very rude actually.

madriano

And even he is only the very tip of the iceberg.

Now if we're talking true, weaponized, insanity shit, then we need to bring in someone like AGOG.

Fortunately I wasn't around when AGOG ran amok here. or maybe not, it might've been fun lol

EDIT: There were actually that many people that believed Sabo was dead?

Razh

@madriano:

EDIT: There were actually that many people that believed Sabo was dead?

I was still on MH at the time, but yes.

Nevermind Dragon bringing someone wounded in the flashback, 3 sake cups on Ace's grave and Oda being "mysterious" when asked about it. I can't remember if there were other irrefutable indications. It came down to "Sabo would have come and help Ace if he was alive" and "databook said he's dead" arguments. As if they'd actually spoil the plot by putting "possibly alive" status in the databook. "Possibly alive" = "alive" in OP, anyway.

Long John Silvers Rayleigh

@RomanceDawn:

Oh yeah I almost forgot about that. Luffy also took a knee to the belly as well right and reacted like he was in pain? Or was that anime only? I take back my last statement. If it's "explained" that Lucci had Haki all along I'd be cool with it.

It's just a little odd that Luffy didn't do his usual, "why does it hurt?!

Here's one such frame

But as Jabra stated sometimes it seems it's more for effect.

Cyan D. Funk

@ArmamentHero:

Nope, but I know he was quite the rude one. Very rude actually.

…Sea ?

Don_Freecs

There is zero reason to assume Mihawk, the greatest swordsman in the world , who gives explicit instructions to always use haki to protect your blade, would be befuddled by a devil fruit for dozens of attacks before switching to what everyone else has been doing completely automatically. Especially when he had just said to himself, he was going to test Luffy with everything he had. (Same as the whitebeard attack.) There's no evidence that he didn't try his best, and plenty of context and reason, including his own words, to say he did.

Acrually. Zoro and Mihawk are pretty similar. Mihawk could have not use haki because he doesn't use it on weak people. As Zoro slashed Monet without haki.

And he sure said "sorry redhair i wont hold back" but what does that mean ? Was Luffy holding back against Don Chinjao because he didn't use Gear4 ? And does that mean that Mihawk was at full power ?

But I have to admit that maybe he used haki. Because when Marco and Vista cut Sakazuki's shoulders, he says "ah haki users are a pain" but he recovers his shoulders because he's a logia. Which means haki hurt but not necessarily tear off the arm of your opponent.
Which brings me to. How Aokiji lost one arm and one leg ( if i recall right ) ? Well, i guess Sakazuki has some superstrong haki. Or Just something we don't know about haki.

Robby

@Don_Freecs:

Was Luffy holding back against Don Chinjao because he didn't use Gear4 ?

Yes, he very clearly was holding back

Shobu Yoruichi

@Don_Freecs:

Because when Marco and Vista cut Sakazuki's shoulders, he says "ah haki users are a pain" but he recovers his shoulders because he's a logia. Which means haki hurt but not necessarily tear off the arm of your opponent.

Or means Sakazuki's Haki is stronger than Marco's and Jozu's. Just as implied by Pica's last resort with Zoro.

World Government is the last villain, obviously. But it's going to be like in Naruto against it, it's going to be evangelized. That would make a child cry i think, like did the boy who knows the end of One Piece.

sanji''s_dad