@Count:

Expecting katakuri, a Yonko Commander, to be strong and fast enough to copy and outmaneuver Luffy is not me thinking "he can do whatever he wants". If there's anybody that thinks Katakuri can do anything he wants, it's Oda with how Katakuri's special abilities include five second foresight, multiple extendable/inflatable limbs, mochi stickiness, Haki-immune intangibility, jellybean sniping, mochi constructs such as earplugs, and a trident hidden within his body. I swear, all of that coupled with looking stereotypically badass design-wise with no depth or connection to his characterization, having superior versions of Luffy's attacks and having a bland stoic personality aside from the one or two moments he cares about his family makes him almost look like an amateurish fanfic character.

Get over yourself. How does his badass appearance not add depth to his characterization? It adds contrast to his unique personality of being a caring older brother but looking like your typical badass archetype. How does that not add depth to his character? It is because he looks like that and acts that way that makes him unique. If Oda hadn't gone over the top with his appearance it wouldn't matter much that he's a caring older brother, and by all measures a nobler character than the protagonist. How is his personality bland? Just because he doesn't have useless quirks that add nothing to the story doesn't mean he's bland. Being stoic and serious is more interesting than having a character with annoying, not even funny "quirks". For his character it would feel weird if he acted any other way, or to put it another way his personality is justified given from what we know about him.

And what is this nonsense of him feeling like a fanfic character? What does a fanfic character even mean. This is something i could say about every character in the series by your logic.

@Sereques:

Does anyone feel the power level scaling is a bit off? Are likes of Jozu and Marco strong like cracker, katakuri and Jack? I can't help but think if BM and her crew had invaded Marineford, they would have left with Ace still alive and the crew intact. Or are the Admirals that ridiculous? Would the Admirals have made a little work of Katakuri and Jack the way they handled Jozu and Marco?

Not really, seems about right. I think WBs big three were Jozu, Ace and Marco in that order and i think they showed enough where if the tables were turned they'd be about equal. As i see them, the Admirals are a little stronger than the Yonkos strongest commander(Marco, Katakuri etc) and would always win in a one on one but after a long fight, meaning they're technically in the same tier, while the Admirals are clearly weaker than a Yonko and would not last as long against one that was going all out. I say this because Marco never really got defeated in the war, even when he got distracted and attacked by several marine VAs and Kizaru, they had to rely on seastone cuffs just to cripple him, while at the same time Marco really couldn't do anything against them. So that's the way my tiers work, Yonko>>Admiral>strongest in Yonko crew. This is why Jozu was no match against Aokiji, he was the second or third strongest after Marco so really at best he'd be able to just stall an Admiral, when he got distracted he got destroyed, unlike Marco, who was only crippled by Kizaru AND other VAs.

But really the only reason why the WB pirates looked so pathetic was because they were far from being at full strength. Not only was Ace not part of the battle, and i consider him the second strongest after Marco, but WB himself was a shell of his former self. Had WB been at full strength the battle would definitely gone differently, as none of the Admirals would have been able to stand up to him one on one for an extended period of time. No worrying about WBs health or protecting him, in fact he was a liability to a point, had he been at full strength the Admirals would have been reeling from trying to handle WB while at the same time being stalled by the big three, who just have to stall their Admiral until WB finishes of the one before him and moves on the next. To be honest, without the Shichibukai, a full strength WB crew might have been able to overpower the Marines, hence why they're so important.

So in the end, the WB pirates were definitely in a pathetic state and having their biggest asset(WB) turn into a liability was too much for them. Had WB been in his prime, i doubt the Marines have the balls to touch Ace in the first place.

@Koliber:

Did SHs have anyone with no fighting capabilities? No. Did SHs have anyone unable to move on their own outside of water? No. She'd fill her own niche, th only problem would be her fashion designer postion ovrlapping with Usopp's artism, but that's a bit like Zoro's swordmanship vs Brook's fencing for me. She was a solid candidate.

On a more serious note, I find Caime's (also Hachi's and Pappug's) treatment in FI arc quite weird. You set up three out of four characters characters to reappear in an arc ~100 chapters earlier, have them play a major role in the arc they're in, and in the actual FI they're background characters (Hachi got a little bit of focus at the beginning, but it didn't matter at allt in the long run). Who even does that? It's not like Oda ever had any problem incorporating non-fighter in his story.

The problem here is you, you're the one only one who took it as him "setting them up", when in reality they may have just been used as a way for us to get introduced to the themes of a future arc and maybe make cameos. In other words, their only impact on the story was when they were introduced, and you, for whatever reason, decided to assume they were being set up as major players in future arcs, hence why i say that it was only you who got these strange ideas. For example, i had no clue who caimie was after the TS when they woke up in her house and had to google her, because to me she was nothing but a supporting character during that arc and was erased from my memory a couple chapters after they were sent flying.

@deltabrain:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/9/9c/Inuarashi_Musketeer_Squad_Infobox.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/800?cb=20161002185351

I kinda disagree. Did we ever find out why Carrot wears a green guardian cape and not a blue musketeer cape?

I'm just going to point out the obvious, she wears a green cape because without it she'd get lost in the crowd. Or in other words its green because there is nothing different, unique or interesting about her.

Like i said before, Dog is hardly a villain, more like antagonist and i would definitely place him as being more noble than Luffy at this point. And it is this reason why Dog is already one of my favorite characters. His appearance goes perfectly with his personality and make him another Zoro, just more intelligent(though i would never call Zoro dumb). Dog so far has been a victim of the readers own prejudice against his character archetype, which he only fits in appearance and isn't even a bad thing in the first place.

@Count:

These are my thoughts on the impressions I got from Pekoms, Tamago, and Katakuri:

! Pekoms and Tamago had panel time before this arc, but that panel time wasn't anything notable for them specifically. Tamago and Pekoms were only Big Mom's delivery boys and didn't really stand out as potential antagonists, or characters that were really strong. The only noteworthy thing they did was when Pekoms punched Caribou, but the Monster Trio could easily do that same thing. His bounty was also lower than Luffy's. They themselves didn't carry so much hype as much as gathering hype around the crew that they belonged to and hinting as to what themes their designs, powers, and island(s) could be centered around. Bobbin had a shady introduction scene of coming back from destroying a country and having random henchmen, but all he did was deliver some news to Big Mom. I do think Bobbin playing so little of a role is disappointing since that country-destroying statement and not being afraid of Big Mom while Pekoms and Tamago were could have gone somewhere, but it wasn't a big loss at all.
! I am only disappointed about Pekoms' lack of relevance in Whole Cake Island purely due to his connection to the Minks, Bege, and Straw Hats being sidelined. But we've seen this type of thing before with the likes of Conis and Margaret being early arc allies that then got mostly ignored when bigger characters appeared. And I am disappointed about Baron Tamago not being relevant outside of his fight with Pedro only because he easily ranks in the top five or even top three of the best designs in Big Mom's crew. There is so much quirky creativity in his design. He's French Mafia Dr. Eggman with a cane. I would easily swap out his design/personality with one of the Sweet Commanders if I were Oda. Probably Smoothie if we're being real here. But outside of that, there's little to actually be disappointed about him plot buildup-wise. He was picked for a tribute retrieval job, he did it, and then said Bege wasn't at fault for shooting Pekoms a few arcs later. That's fine. Unlike, say, Diesel getting taken out in one bite from Carrot without even throwing an attack in a plan formed by Chopper off-panel. After his silhouetted intro, that was underwhelming. At least Randolph attacked the Straw Hats in the Seducing Woods one or two times before Cracker upstaged him.
! But yes, Katakuri is a bland character that is missing something, and comparing him to the empty characterization of the Vinsmokes is quite apt. I appreciate designs based on a mix of how they uniquely stand out silhouette-wise, how stylish they are, and above all else how they express the motifs of that character. Or in short, semiotics. When I look at Katakuri, all I think of is Oda taking Guts from Berserk and shoving random stereotypical badass attire into the design. His design says nothing besides "cool badass" in no particular authentic style, and his characterization unfortunately boils down to pretty much that with a seasoning of focused effectiveness. I do like how he stands out from how goofy all of the other Big Mom Pirates look, but I also worried that he looked too different from them to the point that he could fit into any other antagonist crew (which is why I appreciate the latest anime opening revealing him to have hot pink/red hair, which I hope that Oda sticks with official manga colors). Being serious, stoic, and competent are not enough to make a character memorably interesting either. They are not even real personality traits in my eyes because those descriptions could be executed in a whole bunch of different ways (you don't need to be scowling all of the time to be a competent villain that gets things done, and you can have other emotions and depth to complement not being as emotive as other characters, as well as unique manners of speaking and acting). At best, a character like Katakuri only works as an effective foil to other characters in showing what they aren't like, which is sort of the only main reason why his design and personality ever get praised. Which is somewhat sad since you're basically saying this character's only merits are in standing out in one certain way compared to other lackluster characters. The first time he ever showed any real character was when he mentioned wanting to protect his younger siblings.
! Aside from the scarf and novelty of one of the Big Mom Pirates' unexpectedly looking like such a hardcore punk, I only like his powers. And only when his powers were revealed to spawn multiple limbs that act as more powerful freakshow versions of Luffy's attacks. Outside of that, he's boring to me. But he can be very effective in giving Luffy the training he needs to prepare for Kaido in the next arc.

In regards to the topic at hand about Katakuri being an underwhelming for a major arc fight opponent in and of itself, I'm fine with him in that area. He only stands out because Oda has never deviated from shifting who the main antagonist of an arc was aside from maybe Marineford and Kuma confronting the Straw Hats at the end of Thriller Bark. The final threat of an arc does not have to also be the main recurring threat of an whole arc or be hyped up in a previous arc. Not that they should come out of nowhere as a random entity at the last minute either (coughNARUTOcough), but he debuted exactly twenty chapters ago and was easily the most recurrently standout character in the wedding and chase aside from Big Mom, even compared to Pudding. Perospero is only just recently standing out on a similar level. Katakuri earned enough of an impression to feel fitting and satisfying for a climactic one-on-one fight with Luffy in this arc's final act, especially since we have become familiarized with how imposing the Sweet Generals are ever since Luffy fighting Cracker in the first third of the arc and needing Nami's help to defeat him.

Luffy's fight with Katakuri is not on par with the emotional/thematic catharsis of past final arc fights, of course not. But… we don't need that in every single arc. It's fine to switch things up here and there, especially since it makes those kinds of fights more special rather than feeling so rinse-and-repeat. Katakuri does not need to be a memorable villain so much as a memorable threat. You would only have a real point if we were going to see the Big Mom Pirates defeated in this arc, but we aren't. It has been a survival/escape mission, and most of the Big Mom Pirates are forgettably one/two-dimensional. All Katakuri needs to do is deliver on some good suspense as a powerful opponent and push Luffy to the limits necessary for improvement in the next arc.

With all of that said though, Katakuri is not going to be the final fight in this arc. It's going to be Big Mom. Not in the standard way of overpowering her, but feeding the cake to her in a fight that might be styled like the team-up against Oars. There is no way Oda is letting Sanji save the day with the cake without having to share the spotlight, Luffy is going to at least hog half of that when he breaks out of the Mirror World. I fully expect this fight to end in a stalemate or an interruption after Luffy shows some sort of battle progress in analyzing Katakuri's fighting style. Ending an arc so centric around Big Mom and the kingdom getting destroyed with Luffy fighting a Sweet General in a remote area away from the destruction or any prominent witnesses besides Brûlée and random chess soldier isn't exactly too remarkable in the scope of this arc. It's going to focus on the big bad Yonko getting calmed down by the future Pirate King. If Katakuri showed up on Zou instead of Jack and fought Luffy there instead, that would be fine since Zou is a shorter arc with much less stakes, conflict, and characterization focus than Whole Cake Island.

And this is me random rambling a bit, but she BETTER not become unconscious after eating the cake while her family lets the Straw Hats go as thanks. I hate it whenever people suggest that as a way for this arc to end because I feel that is disrespectful to the amount of focus and characterization Big Mom has gotten as an antagonist. I get that she has a belligerent-incuding illness and the character flaw of scaring her children into becoming hazardous yes men, but she is not supposedly incompetent and pathetic to the point that her children need to make the decision of letting the Straw Hats go while she's peacefully sleeping. Luffy and Big Mom declared this "war" between each other in Fishman Island, and by God they should be the ones to end it as captains on an equal level of respect.

Rebecca was one of my favorite parts of Dressroba, so my taste might not be the most trustworthy, but i think Dogtoogh has been my favorite character post TS, above even Jack. I consider Dog to be one of the most well fleshed out characters in series, and this is done thanks to Odas improved writing skills, or at least what he has learned after 800 chapters. When i say fleshed out, i mean the potential to be an actual human being, and in that way Dog shines, and its really something else considering how little we've seen of him. What do we know about him? He is the second strongest big mom pirate, and in the world there are few who could beat him, he's also mastered his CoO to a ridiculous level and has a devil fruit that is in a way maybe better than Luffys. Oh and his lack of "quirks", or "speech pattern" or whatever else. I know this is a manga that flaunts how over the top the characters are, but in his own way Dog is also over the top. Just not in the way we're accustomed to. He has a personality, an already very defined one, but in Odas usual manner his look is just over the top, but in this case with an archetype we are not used to seeing from Oda. As you put it, the badass, well guess what? That in and of itself is more unique in this manga than anything else, and the lack of "quirks" is to make his personality and character work. What would be the point in having him do stupid things in serious situations just like everyone else? What exactly does that even add? Nothing. And why do i say that he is fleshed out and has a very believable(one of the most believable and sound characters in the series) personality? Because of what he's done and said. In almost every scene hes either trying to protect his family or being completely realistic and to the point, a trait Oda obviously put thought into, as someone who can see the future to some degree must have that ability affect his manner of acting and thinking. By realistic i mean what he says and does is mostly common sense(unless he is prevented from doing something by Oda himsel, like kill Luffy), examples like saying the main island was done for when BM started the rampage and him waiting for Luffy.

Also, his way of acting and what hes said and done are what make him a standout character to be honest. Let's be real, BM is a god damn mess. Shes' nothing but a wreck that happens to hold a massive amount of power. But in spite of all of that shes still Dogs mom, and all those freaks are his siblings, and what have the SHs been doing? Destroying his home and beating on his family. He is hardly a villain and to be honest hes', in terms of morality, actually a good guy compared to Luffy and his crew at this point. Him, as the second son, as someone able to see the future, is extremely protective and since all hell is breaking loose it is ridiculous to expect the guy to joke around or have a "quirk". For this guy, who cares so damn much this is serious business, since he has to literally watch over the kingdom AND his own captain/mom.

My hat is off to Oda, Dog is an incredibly well written character, and revived one of the least interesting arcs in the series. That and big mom being fun in her crazy mode.

@DarkHamster:

I don't care how we're justifying the lack of fighting prowess post time skip for sanji. The one main red herring is always "well he's the cook."

The problem is he's the cook of the pirate king, which means they'll have to take on a younko's top 3. He's not even remotely close. His cooking's gotten better, but this is a shonen manga, we don't really get growth displayed really, what we see is his growth as a fighter. This the same as everyone else. I've been saying this arc's my favorite post timeskip but I do think the strength of this half of SHs + the lack of time for fighting for women, are some of the problems for me personally.

Relax, there is still plenty of time left for the SHs to become stronger. I don't expect Luffy to beat Big Mom this arc, and i don't expect him to beat Kaido by himself either, meaning all of the SHs should have help against Kaidos three calamities(except maybe Zoro), giving them plenty of time to grow. By the time the SHs face Blackbeard, all of them should individually be able to beat their counterparts without help, finally reaching the level of a Yonkou. One Piece is a little different in that even if Luffy beats Kaido, that doesn't mean Luffy will be stronger than Kaido(ike he wasn't stronger than Croc or Lucci) and even after that victory he might even struggle against Akainu who is probably not stronger than Kaido, The point here is that there is no reason to want noticeable growth for the SHs when really they'll only need to be as strong as a Yonkou commander by the end of the series, when they face BB. In terms of strength all the SHs, especially Luffy, are right where they are supposed to be.

@Kaido:

Haven't read Thriller Bark in quite a while, so this will be a bit brief and vague.

Love: Perona is a delightful little soul. She plays with the creepy factor without going too far with it, preventing her from being off-putting which she easily could have been. She gave Usopp a really interesting fight that made him pull out all the creative stops. And when she was defeated, her sudden exit from the island helped create a pretty good scenario in that it foreshadowed the climax of the arc while also preventing her from overstaying her welcome.

Loathe: Perona has the worst Devil Fruit power in the entire series. None of the rest come close to me. She summons ghosts, that can do anything from the drastically overpowered happiness sucking to spying to actually being bombs(!) The only way to stop it was the ridiculous notion of Usopp basically being on the verge of killing himself already. Why do the ghosts do this? Where do they come from? What do they represent? No one knows! I didn't even need more than a simple explanation, and with a few nerfs it could have been good, but it was a complete overpowered mess to the point of being a joke, which is not very good when Perona is supposed to be a major character. It's not at the level of Gremmy's imagination powers, but it's OP's closest equivalent.

Also, she does nothing after Thriller Bark, she's just there.

Character: 3/5
Design: 4.5/5

Dude, you do realize her DF is one of the weakest in the series? The SHs were affected because they're dumb, but had they been serious the ghosts would never have been able to even touch them, they float at a speed where they're almost irrelevant against any serious opponent. Her power is nothing but a gag, and we have no idea if what Zoro said is true, that someone with a strong will would be unnaffected, and even if she could affect stronger opponents Perona herself is a weak ass character that wouldn't even be able to stay awake against the strongest opponent. Overall you're taking a gag df and taking it more seriously than Oda ever did.

@Jonke:

why is no one talking about zoros eye? i think franky is skilled enough to offer him a cyborg eye. law could probably replace his eye with some animal eye. tontatta princess has no shot on healing it with her heal fruit? ceasar the scientist was on their ship too.

This isn't Naruto, Zoro isn't hindered in any way by having only one eye. It's probably just for aesthetic purposes, to make Zoro look cool.

@Daz:

While I find it greatly amusing, the trouble with the cliffhanger vis-a-vis storytelling is the reader has to adjust to two surprises at once: The surprise of the picture getting smashed s suddenly and easily, and the surprise of Brook being a Luffy decoy, and thus in a position to even do that. Learning both things at the same time makes it feel a bit more jarring and convenient. But it may just be that a moment like that sticks out, since this is the most convenience-reliant arc in the series. Much like Law in Punk Hazard, I keep wondering what Bege would've done if the Straw Hats hadn't come along (with Caesar and Brülee).

How is the Brook thing a surprise? It's so obvious it's more of a gag.