I absolutely agree with people who don't see Mihawk as powerful as emperors.
Pound for pound, I think he's up there.
You don't get regularly name dropped for your clashes with a Yonko unless your're in their ballpark.
That's why his last rival will be someone who is second in power among the last rivals of all straw-hats.
Shiryuu for the win.
After he's killed Mihawk.
Mihawk for the loss.
You're saying that Mihawk is above than admirals. Ok, i just wonder, why he couldn't even strain Vista ?
Akainu just admitted they were using haki, that's all. There was no damage at all. That's why admirals are much stronger than someone like Vista. Also Ace is a top crew member but Akainu raped him literally. So i guess Mihawk don't stand a chance against someone as powerful as Akainu not to mention emperors like Whitebeard.
If he would be so strong he would have shown us the difference between him and Vista, like Akainu did.
I would say that Mihawk is greater/ more special character when it comes to fighting. He is in my opinion closer to Yonko than Admirals are.
Also you seem to forget how Aces card looked like - he was severly beaten and weakened from fight with Blackbeard who beaten him and from his time in Level 6.
Beside that Ace shielded Luffy with his own body to save his life and you call that "Ace getting literally raped"? Please give more thoughts to your arguments if you want to discuss.
However, besting Mihawk is Zoro's dream.
Beating the world's strongest swordsman is effectively Zoro's dream, not necessarily Mihawk.
With their change to a master and pupil relationship, it would really be kind of weird if the previously seemingly fated battle actually played out IMO.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
Beating the world's strongest swordsman is effectively Zoro's dream, not necessarily Mihawk.
With their change to a master and pupil relationship, it would really be kind of weird if the previously seemingly fated battle actually played out IMO.
I don't see Zoro even getting the chance to best Mihawk anyways, since Shiliew might get to him first. Because you know, BB and his crew are end game. Anyways, long time no see. Hope you're doing just fine.
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
Well I do think you did not understand Mihawks point. Zoro is seeing ambition of his captain as even greater than his own so out of his admiration and respect for Luffy, Zoro was willingly swallowing up his pride for sake of Luffys dream.
Does not mean that Zoros ambition changed. Think about it.
You're saying the same thing. Zoro put Luffy's goal to his own priority. That's why his last rival gonna be someone from opposite crew. Perhaps Shiryuu, perhaps one of gorosei, perhaps one of admirals. But definitely not Mihawk.
@Watch-man:
I would say that Mihawk is greater/ more special character when it comes to fighting. He is in my opinion closer to Yonko than Admirals are.
Also you seem to forget how Aces card looked like - he was severly beaten and weakened from fight with Blackbeard who beaten him and from his time in Level 6.
Beside that Ace shielded Luffy with his own body to save his life and you call that "Ace getting literally raped"? Please give more thoughts to your arguments if you want to discuss.
When Ace and Akainu exchanged blows Ace lost. Akainu said that he doesn't stand a chance against him. Then Vista couldn't cut him. Which makes Akainu's haki more powerful.
But in the same time Vista didn't have problems against Mihawk who, as you say,is stronger than Akainu. It just doesnt make sense.
You're saying the same thing. Zoro put Luffy's goal to his own priority. That's why his last rival gonna be someone from opposite crew. Perhaps Shiryuu, perhaps one of gorosei, perhaps one of admirals. But definitely not Mihawk.
When Ace and Akainu exchanged blows Ace lost. Akainu said that he doesn't stand a chance against him. Then Vista couldn't cut him. Which makes Akainu's haki more powerful.
But in the same time Vista didn't have problems against Mihawk who, as you say,is stronger than Akainu. It just doesnt make sense.
Well… how to put it..
Fights in One Piece are not only level of haki or level of strength. Its more complicated. Even if somebody has stronger haki, that person can be cut up in moment when he/she has haki unactive if somebody is simply faster... Luffy beaten up Boa Sisters who seemed to have decent control over haki even when he had no idea how to use his own. So if one guy has stronger haki or devil fruit it does not mean that he is unbeatable by other character that has "lower stat" if you catch what I want to say.. If not there is no point in continuing exchange for me.
I don't see Zoro even getting the chance to best Mihawk anyways, since Shiliew might get to him first.
Indeed, good old Shiryuu of the Rain.
…The rain will be Mihawk's blood.
Mwahaha.
Because you know, BB and his crew are end game. Anyways, long time no see. Hope you're doing just fine.
Haha, thanks buddy, I'm doing A-ok
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
Indeed, good old Shiryuu of the Rain.
…The rain will be Mihawk's blood.
Mwahaha.
Haha, thanks buddy, I'm doing A-ok
Muahahahaha, glad to hear that friend!!!
I like how people hype Blackbeard so much. I don't want to start any wars, but honestly I think if anything, Blackbeard is the third emperor to go down, Shanks being the last one, even before we get to Raftel. On the hand of Mihawk vs Vista, we can only attribute that Vista is an excellent swordsman, both of them don't know each others techniques going into the fight, and as they clash, they realize that this would take too long to settle. Though I think that if the fight had kept going Mihawk would've bested him. The only thing Jozu accomplished was to redirect a flying slash, let's be real, we have not seen Mihawk even putting down a sword technique (with a name) and had Jozu redirected that, then I would agree more easily that Mihawk ain't that strong. I assume that Mihawk being Shanks sparring partner happened too long ago to account for his strength?
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Well… how to put it..
Fights in One Piece are not only level of haki or level of strength. Its more complicated. Even if somebody has stronger haki, that person can be cut up in moment when he/she has haki unactive if somebody is simply faster... Luffy beaten up Boa Sisters who seemed to have decent control over haki even when he had no idea how to use his own. So if one guy has stronger haki or devil fruit it does not mean that he is unbeatable by other character that has "lower stat" if you catch what I want to say.. If not there is no point in continuing exchange for me.
Of course they aren't unbeatable. Someone on the level of emperor or admiral can beat Akainu. But not the man who can't make Vista serious.
Of course they aren't unbeatable. Someone on the level of emperor or admiral can beat Akainu. But not the man who can't make Vista serious.
I dunno how you come up with this kind of lines.
Yeah I'd say Mihawk is as strong as a Yonkou, and being Zoro's last rival he's got to be. If Luffy is going to be the Pirate King, which is a step above the Yonkou, then Zoro being as strong as a Yonkou makes perfect sense.
I dunno how you come up with this kind of lines.
Well, may be person who is stronger than admirals can make Vista look bad ? Or even defeat him without problems. Like Akainu showed us with Ace. Mihawk didn't even scratch him.
Untill Mihawk proves his ">admiral" level there is no reason to believe it.
Yeah I'd say Mihawk is as strong as a Yonkou, and being Zoro's last rival he's got to be. If Luffy is going to be the Pirate King, which is a step above the Yonkou, then Zoro being as strong as a Yonkou makes perfect sense.
That being said, we don't know if the Yonko will be defeated in a honest 1v1 fight.
That being said, we don't know if the Yonko will be defeated in a honest 1v1 fight.
At least one of them has to be.
Luffy's gonna be taking on the entire world come the end of series war, we have to be able to take him seriously as an absolutely top tier combatant.
If he doesn't beat at least one of the characters with that kind of claim to fame then it's not really going to work.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
I do think Mihawk is way stronger that we would think. In relation to Vista x Mihawk, none of them was fighting serious. Mihawk was playing his role as Shichibukai, obliged to be there, and Vista was ordered to hold him so Luffy could get way of his range. None of them with ferocity or really strong reasons to fight seriously. I think Mihawk is almost yonko level, and could cut down even Akainu, if he wanted to.
Well, may be person who is stronger than admirals can make Vista look bad ? Or even defeat him without problems. Like Akainu showed us with Ace. Mihawk didn't even scratch him.
Untill Mihawk proves his ">admiral" level there is no reason to believe it.
I am just curious as how you gauge Ace's strength? Especially against Akainu. The man barely had anything to eat, was tortured repeatedly in Impel Down, had already been beaten by Blackbeard. At best I would say that Ace was at 10% of his strength when he was set free. If Akainu didn't overpower him like he did (and he also had the fruit advantage) then Akainu would just be a pleb. To add to that, if Mihawk is still the greatest swordsman and he is "merely a warlord", then what is the thrill of fighting him, especially if we are entering the emperors arc. Imagine we have a fight with Kaido, to then have a fight with a warlord that cannot even compare to the emperors?
Now if, AND IF, Shyriu(yeah I butcher names too) manages to beat Mihawk and take the title of strongest, alright I can dig the hype, but I would think it is a bit meh to have Zoro say "YES I BEAT MIHAWK, I AM THE STRONGEST SWORDMAN", new swordman appears: "FOOL, I AM THE STRONGEST SWORDSMAN". I have two dumb predictions (i feel like i have to state it now), either Zoro fights Mihawk at the same time Luffy is fighting Shanks, or Zoro fights him at the final war, or really close to it.
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Beating the world's strongest swordsman is effectively Zoro's dream, not necessarily Mihawk.
But for right now, the world's strongest swordsman is Mihawk, it's been Mihawk for some time.
The entire time of the series, of all the time we've seen Zoro's mention of his dream, it's been about defeating Mihawk to achieve that dream.
My point was to answer the claim that Mihawk wasn't Zoro's goal, I pointed out that Zoro's been training all this time to fight Mihawk. While I do agree it can change, it wasn't part of my point, so I didn't bring it up.
But for the current time, Mihawk is the World's Strongest Swordsman and as such he is the one (currently) Zoro needs to face to achieve his goal.
AS recent as ch 597 Zoro still had the same goal. Even when he asked Mihawk to teach him, Mihawk comments on why since Zoro wanting his head, and Zoro affirms he wishes to surpass him.
With their change to a master and pupil relationship, it would really be kind of weird if the previously seemingly fated battle actually played out IMO.
Yet isn't that part of some classic storytelling? That at some point student must prove he's worthy by facing off and defeating his mentor?
IF Zoro suddenly has no desire to fight, with Mihawk's sense of honor, I can see him forcing a confrontation so Zoro keeps his word about surpassing him.
Unrelated = Have you checked your PMs? I sent you one asking if I could quote you from the Next Namaka thread. I've forgotten the exact wording but it had a sarcastic comment on how people keep throwing "potential namaka" theories out at the drop of one appearance and had "Stay Classic, AP." in it
I don't see Zoro even getting the chance to best Mihawk anyways, since Shiliew might get to him first. Because you know, BB and his crew are end game. Anyways, long time no see. Hope you're doing just fine.
YEs I can see that happening, but for now, Mihawk is still it and the one Zoro's been training to defeat.
@Tamiel:
I am just curious as how you gauge Ace's strength? Especially against Akainu. The man barely had anything to eat, was tortured repeatedly in Impel Down, had already been beaten by Blackbeard. At best I would say that Ace was at 10% of his strength when he was set free. If Akainu didn't overpower him like he did (and he also had the fruit advantage) then Akainu would just be a pleb. To add to that, if Mihawk is still the greatest swordsman and he is "merely a warlord", then what is the thrill of fighting him, especially if we are entering the emperors arc. Imagine we have a fight with Kaido, to then have a fight with a warlord that cannot even compare to the emperors?
Well, Akainu said that Ace doesn't stand a chance and proved it. Also BB run away from him, which means he really had thoughts of losing to Akainu. But he defeated Ace.
If Mihawk was as strong as emperor he would have at least scratched Vista. But he didn't. He showed his respect to Vista which means he considered him seriously, but didn't even scratch. Vista couldn't do a shit against Akainu. I think everything is clear.
You're all under this illusion that Luffy is the kind to tag team on someone, or use any means to achieve his dream. That's what Blackbeard is, NOT LUFFY.
Luffy is the person that was telling Fujitora where he was going to hit him, because he's blind.
Blackbeard is the person that tag-teamed an already dying Whitebeard.
Don't mix them, for they're entirely the opposite
At least one of them has to be.
Luffy's gonna be taking on the entire world come the end of series war, we have to be able to take him seriously as an absolutely top tier combatant.
If he doesn't beat at least one of the characters with that kind of claim to fame then it's not really going to work.
I guess so - you must be right.
I mean people are hyped about Blackbeard but all he did after killing, an already pretty dead Whitebeard, was run away from Shanks, run away from Akainu (even though he had his entire crew with him), run away from CP0. Like I said before, if Akainu did not keep to his word, he would've been a scrub, he had every advantage on Ace. On Mihawk v Vista, if neither of them were fighting to defeat each other, and just stalling for time (Vista helping Luffy, Mihawk waiting for the walls to be raised), that could be why they didn't harm each other. Jimbe was able to stop Akainu's punch, does that mean Jimbe > Ace, not really we saw them fight and end up on a stalemate.
I thought there wasn't supposed to be a new chapter until Monday at the earliest. Why is there a spoiler thread up already?
I thought there wasn't supposed to be a new chapter until Monday at the earliest. Why is there a spoiler thread up already?
Is usual for Golden Week to get the chapter days before (saturday,sunday)
but that makes the wait for the next one much longer :getlost:
Everyone knows that Mihawk was only at the war to see some strong ppl. Then he wanted to test Luffy who is Zoro's captain. I feel like he is just a curious guy…. in which case he didn't really want to put the effort forth in fighting Vista. The dude spared with Shanks back in the day if thats anything to consider. Even though Shanks lost his arm he was already a powerful pirate. Maybe not yonko yet but he was still pretty good so the fact that Mihawk could even fight him is a testament to his strength.
Also the hype that Mihawk receives is ridiculous so him not being at least admiral level would be kinda stupid
I think after he fodderize Kid, a pirate of same generation, he probably thought SHs are nothing as well. Although, beating up Mingo should have made him clue up but he choose to classify Mingo as weak. The frail looking nature of the SHs crew doesn't help either.
Fair enough…that's actually a very good point.
I disagree. The SHs are driven by a "purpose", they also know when an opponent is beyond them.
I dunno…I could see Luffy picking a fight with someone way out of his league... that's just who Luffy is. The rest of the crew you might be right about though. Yes he eventually gave in with Kuma but I'll bet he would've fought Whitebeard pre-timeskip if given a reason to. He would have definitely been out of his league there.
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Everyone knows that Mihawk was only at the war to see some strong ppl. Then he wanted to test Luffy who is Zoro's captain. I feel like he is just a curious guy…. in which case he didn't really want to put the effort forth in fighting Vista. The dude spared with Shanks back in the day if thats anything to consider. Even though Shanks lost his arm he was already a powerful pirate. Maybe not yonko yet but he was still pretty good so the fact that Mihawk could even fight him is a testament to his strength.
Also the hype that Mihawk receives is ridiculous so him not being at least admiral level would be kinda stupid
Agree completely. That's the thing about Shichibukai…it's just a title. They can vary a whole lot when it comes to strength. We all know Buggy.. but I'm damn sure for example that Moria was weaker than Doflamingo. And I'll bet Mihawk is better than all three of them.
Agree completely. That's the thing about Shichibukai…it's just a title. They can vary a whole lot when it comes to strength. We all know Buggy.. but I'm damn sure for example that Moria was weaker than Doflamingo. And I'll bet Mihawk is better than all three of them.
But could Mihawk cut the Birdcage? :ninja:
If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life
Is not good for your health to jump into that discussion sir.
Oh I know allll about that shit.
I posted in the Narutofan battledome for far longer than is healthy. And it's unhealthy to post even once there.
@Monkey:
Oh I know allll about that shit.
I posted in the Narutofan battledome for far longer than is healthy. And it's unhealthy to post even once there.
Narutoforums battledome is a great way to vent about powerlevels. Better yet, its on another forum and as such, the shitty discussions on that board don't link over here. I, for one, created an account over there to discuss power levels and I still post there from time to time.
@Tamiel:
The mere warlord that sparred with the guy whom people still argue about how he dodged Kaido during the war. Now, I don't know how far back, and how much each character changed. But Mihawk and Shanks dueled regularly, so just because Mihawk is a wanderer, that doesn't make him weak. So, speculation time, if Shanks and Mihawk are somewhat on the same level, and Shanks > Kaido, then Kaido could be the stepping stone for Zoro to finally challenge his master.
Tamiel -
On the flip side, Mihawk himself has acknowledged that becoming King of the Pirates is an even tougher goal than surpassing himself.
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
Narutoforums battledome is a great way to vent about powerlevels. Better yet, its on another forum and as such, the shitty discussions on that board don't link over here. I, for one, created an account over there to discuss power levels and I still post there from time to time.
The damage is not outward so I understand your lack of concern, but when you stand at the gates before St. Peter you will see what its done to your eternal soul.
@Monkey:
The damage is not outward so I understand your lack of concern, but when you stand at the gates before St. Peter you will see what its done to your eternal soul.
Would you rather me shitpost about power levels here or on Nardo forums? Power level discussion although a huge waste of time, is fun, and there has to be some place to talk about it?
Ideally, one should never post about power levels ever because it's dumb as hell and not how stories work.
Would you rather me shitpost about power levels here or on Nardo forums? Power level discussion although a huge waste of time, is fun, and there has to be some place to talk about it?
The place to do that is the deepest rings of hell itself in the icy chamber where Satan feasts on traitors.
Which is to say I agree, Narutofan fits a nice role.
Man I can't wait for Shillew to offpanel Mihawk.
@Tamiel:
I like how people hype Blackbeard so much. I don't want to start any wars, but honestly I think if anything, Blackbeard is the third emperor to go down, Shanks being the last one, even before we get to Raftel.
Please go read one of the Final villain discussion threads. Its irritating people still think that Shanks holds more narrative significance (not that he isn't like the third most important character) than the obvious final villain of the entire manga (for countless reasons).
To illustrate
Blackbeard
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@Cyan:
Ideally, one should never post about power levels ever because it's dumb as hell and not how stories work.
Let me have my fun!
Huh, I remember lurking a few times on the Battledome, lol
Man I can't wait for Shillew to offpanel Mihawk.
As a Blackbeard pirate, he knows that's his best shot.
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@Tamiel:
I like how people hype Blackbeard so much. I don't want to start any wars, but honestly I think if anything, Blackbeard is the third emperor to go down, Shanks being the last one, even before we get to Raftel. On the hand of Mihawk vs Vista, we can only attribute that Vista is an excellent swordsman, both of them don't know each others techniques going into the fight, and as they clash, they realize that this would take too long to settle. Though I think that if the fight had kept going Mihawk would've bested him. The only thing Jozu accomplished was to redirect a flying slash, let's be real, we have not seen Mihawk even putting down a sword technique (with a name) and had Jozu redirected that, then I would agree more easily that Mihawk ain't that strong. I assume that Mihawk being Shanks sparring partner happened too long ago to account for his strength?
By that point, everyone have made up their mind about who will be the final villain and what Blackbeard role will be. It's a sterile debate I would advice you not to get into.
@Tamiel:
I like how people hype Blackbeard so much.
One of those people is named "Eiichiro Oda".
@Monkey:
One of those people is named "Eiichiro Oda".
Especially him, the more he hypes him, the better will be his downfall.
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@Tamiel:
Especially him, the more he hypes him, the better will be his downfall.
Correct, his downfall at the end of the manga.
@Monkey:
Correct, his downfall at the end of the manga.
And after the fight the sky clears up, Luffy takes the hat to Shanks grave, etc etc etc
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On the flip side, Mihawk himself has acknowledged that becoming King of the Pirates is an even tougher goal than surpassing himself.
Yeah, because it involves more than just being personally strong. You have to be able to lead armadas of allies and that's a trait that Mihawk entirely lacks.
Make no mistake, Mihawk is on par with the Yonko in terms of personal strength. The reason he's not a yonko is strictly because he's a lone wolf with no leadership skills. I think he was even the one to recognize Luffy's natural leadership qualities during the marineford war and comment to himself that this trait is truely the strongest ability.
And yes, he could've cut the birdcage. He also would have easily taken down Doflamingo. Hell, one-on-one Zoro could probably take down Doflamingo.
@Tamiel:
And after the fight the sky clears up, Luffy takes the hat to Shanks grave, etc etc etc
Something like that yes.
Sounds like you agree that Blackbeard is the final villain of the manga One Piece.
Hell, one-on-one Zoro could probably take down Doflamingo.
No, just no. The birdcage was indestructible. I don't think even think Mihawk could cut. And on another note, Zoro is not as strong Doffy and would lose in a fight with no plot contrivances; hell, Luffy would've lost if Gatz and the citizens of Dressrosa didn't stall Doflamingo. Doffy was pretty fucking strong and while he wasn't anything compared to Kaidou, he was superior to Luffy (and Zoro) during Dressrosa.
No, just no. The birdcage was indestructible. I don't think even think Mihawk could cut. And on another note, Zoro is not as strong Doffy and would lose in a fight with no plot contrivances; hell, Luffy would've lost if Gatz and the citizens of Dressrosa didn't stall Doflamingo. Doffy was pretty fucking strong and while he wasn't anything compared to Kaidou, he was superior to Luffy (and Zoro) during Dressrosa.
Didn't Luffy say that he could avoid Mingo if he didn't have to worry that Doffy will start killing everyone around him to get his attention? Don't throw knives at me, because for all I know, I could've read a shitty translation. From that it seems Luffy is implying he miscalculated and thought gear fourth would be enough, and he was quite confident about defeating Mingo after using gear 4th he says: I'll take him down in one hit. And he did.
!
Guys, not this again.. please let's not go there.
Another birdcage discussion spiced with some Mihawk this time. I wonder when we get to the yonkos are stronger than admirals followed by Whitebeard against Akainu followed by endless discussion of Ohara and the final villain.
