You are so salty. haha. Its not even worth having a conversation with you because you come across as a conceited prick. But, alas, some people's ego rides on being important in an anime forum. lolz. So, by all means keep arguing using ad hominem
! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem to attempt to make yourself appear greater than others. I suppose some people can't debate any other way. smh
! Here comes the BAN HAMMER
Seriously though, this is a forum for discussion. Your language is out of line, I have not demeaned you once. I don't care if you have had this discussion before many times and are tired of it. It's something I feel is worthy of discussion. You can choose not to participate. Or perhaps even better, you could argue your point in a way that doesn't piss people off… That would actually help your ability to convince others of your opinions.
I looked up the chapter where Monet reacts to chopper and noticed choppers footsteps for the first time(I missed it because manga panda didn't translate and I had never looked so closely). That supports your view, however, it would have been a lot easier to end that particular argument if you just to have mentioned this fact (if you knew it). Rather than mock me, and pretend as though i'm refusing to hear your arguments. p.s you didn't make any convincing arguments. Not everyone has stalked one piece forums for 8 years and has read every possible discussion.
However, I do find difficulties on your problem with "fixating on one single panel". If you haven't heard, Oda likes to forshadow. :ninja:
This can be in scenes, over a page or..yes.. in a single panel. Here's some examples if you don't believe me.
1.
! http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/589/7 (Middle panel. Sabo is alive)
2.
! http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/504/6 (this is the age of "smiles")
3.
! http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/224/15 (Middle panel. Places we've been and places we will go.)
4.
! http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/501/18 (Middle-right. Tribes we have met and tribes we will meet.)
5. Many of Usopp's lies.
You get the point i'm sure. Oda leaves Easter egg's for us to find, some more obvious than others. To claim fixating on a single panel may be a bad idea is ludicrous. I am merely conversing about my particular views on a single panel. You don't seem to recognize the difference between fixation and conversation. And even if I was fixating it's this sort of keen observation which elicits good discussion, at least in my opinion.
But let's get back to Monet for a second, and her interest in astronomy. You say i'm "ignor(ing) giant chunks of the manga etc….". NO, I am not. I am organizing them into their particular categories(which is ironic because you are usually the organization guy).
I'm going to go ahead and state my hypothesis(which I guess you would call fan fiction but is likely to be at least partially accurate). I believe Oda has dropped at least 2 hints that Monet's "dream" involves astronomy/space. The first clue is obvious. Oda specifically drew an 'astronomy' on a book on Monet's desk. Second, we know that law operated on the people of punk hazard so that they would be man-beasts. All of them except one though got this surgery out of necessity. Monet was the only person on the island who volunteered to become a man-beast without any apparent reason. The choice of harpy is pretty interesting since Oda chose to tell us about her interest in astronomy. This suggest to me that whatever she's looking to obtain from astronomy books(general or specific knowledge) may be more than a passing interest but something she desperately desires. In my opinion she could have wanted wings so that she could be closer to the stars(or some such garbage). I think most people would agree this is a fair theory, albeit without any "hard" evidence. You could argue that perhaps she just fancied herself with wings, and, frankly, there's not any material that could specifically reject this. However, there no reason to say thats the case either. Thus, it's speculation either way.
The fact that Oda perhaps let us in on Monet's "dreams" is really interesting. Robby says Oda does this all the time, but does he??
This is also my opinion, so feel free to disagree… but not all forms of foreshadowing/ character development are created equal. For instance, the SBS stuff is pretty much always "fun facts" that weren't worth putting in the actual manga. I place information obtained by SBS below(in order of significance to the story) information obtained in the actual manga. Therefore Oda wanting to show Monet's astronomy interest(perhaps hinting at her dream) within the actual manga carries more weight than Oda adding addition "fun facts" in SBS's which are not necessary for the story hence their exclusion. But the line between cover stories/ in story-flash backs and the "main story" is much thinner. (I'm not saying cover stories/ flash-backs aren't the part of the story, they are, just separating the manga into parts).
So back to dreams. Which characters have had their dreams revealed? In what parts of the manga(flashbacks, cover stories or the main story) does Oda reveal(or hint at) a characters dreams? And what are these dreams?
Let's start with the character's who were once or still are major antagonists who have gotten cover stories or flashbacks(flashbacksdefined as a mini arc, not a brief blurb).
! Helmeppo: Currently a marine officer of little importance. No revealed dreams yet.
Dreams: It could be assumed he wants to be a marine of some significance, but there isn't much to support that at the moment.
! Buggy: He is a major reoccurring character and currently a shichibukai. He is an important gag character. I don't think buggy has any specific dreams, but the hints to what he wants occur first in the main story, with his flash-backs and cover story emphasizing what we already know.
Dreams: It's not specifically stated but I think it's fair to say Buggy dreams of being great, wealthy and powerful based on his actions. Also probably dreams of revenge for those he feels has wronged him. Jango: Currently he's a marine of little significance. No revealed dreams yet.Dreams: It's probably fair to say he may want to be a great marine, however, this is not really supported yet.
! Hachi: He is now a friend of the strawhats, and is of little to no significance. His dreams were revealed in the main story, his cover story merely intending to update his whereabouts and develop his character.
Dreams: His only significant revealed dream is of being accepted in human society. This was hinted at by his unusual kindness towards humans in the arlong arc and confirmed in the fishman island arc.
! Wapol: He is the king of drum island and has little significance to the overall story as of right now. No revealed dreams yet.Dreams: His dreams have not been specifically stated, but his actions suggest he wants power and it's associated benefits. Nico Robin: Currently a straw hat and a very important character. Her dreams are revealed in the main story(sky island) and given context in her flashback.
Dream(s): To find the Rio Ponteglyph and uncover the true history.
! Baroque Works(everyone else):Crocodile, Mr.1, Mr.2 and Mr.3 are reoccurring characters with some importance. Crocodiles dream is first hinted in the main story(acquire Alabasta/ Pluton for power/kill whitebeard). The cover story is used to keep him relevant and set him up to be reintroduced into the story.
Dreams: No specific "dreams" are revealed for most of the characters, but it can be assumed crocodile wants power of some sort.
! Enel: Supposedly, he is now the ruler of the moon. He is of little significance, but the potential is there for more action in the story. His dream was first revealed in the main story, with his cover story showing him achieving his dream.
Dreams: His dream was to return to and perhaps rule over fairy vearth(which he accomplished). He has stated he does not actually believe he is "the god", it's unclear whether he dreams of being god.
! Gedatsu: is currently on the vearth and owns a hot springs resort. He is currently of no significance. No obvious dreams yet.
Dreams: No hint at any dreams.
! Rob Lucci: He is currently a member of CP-0 and an important reoccurring character. His dreams(if that's what that was) was first revealed during the main story, and the cover story is used mainly to explain how Lucci and CP9 escaped justice and surviving.
Dreams: Lucci has said he wants "blood", perhaps meaning he dreams of battle and the ability to defeat his enemies. Its possible he dreams of world order or something similar.
! Caribou: A pirate who is currently captured by X-Drake, and is of little significance. No revealed dreams yet, but most of his apparent ambition were first revealed during the main story.
Dreams: No revealed dreams. but his dreams most likely involve causing death, gaining wealth and power.
So why does this matter? This is only to illustrate the purpose of cover stories. They show us what happens to character A so that when we next meet him we know why he's there. It also serves to flesh out the previous antagonists more, usually so that we can come to like them and accept them as future strawhat allies. All of the main characters in the cover stories seemed to show at least a bit of humanity, and the majority of them seem to have changed their ways. Cover stories so far are not used to reveal a characters dreams or aspirations.. at all(ignoring superfluous stuff like dreaming to own a takoyaki shop).
In regards to flashback mini arcs, these are saved exclusively for Strawhat members and law(i'm assuming Jinbei is already a Strawhat). Side note This could mean Law will be a future Strawhat, but is probably only supposed to indicate he is vital to the story. Unlike antagonists, in general, Strawhat crew members ALWAYS have unique, well articulated dreams. These dreams are also not focused on material gain or power. The flashback arcs never introduce their dreams, but they always add at least some context.
! Strawhats Dreams
1. Luffy: To find the one piece and be the pirate king. Ultimately he wants to live free. (captain)
2. Zoro: Wants to be the best swordsman alive. (swordsman)
3. Nami: Wants to draw a complete map of the world. (navigation)
4. Usopp: Wants to be a brave warrior of the sea. (coward)
5. Sanji: Wants to find the all blue. (cook)
6. Chopper: Wants to be able to cure any illness. (Doctor)
7. Nico Robin: Want to discover the true history. (Historian)
8. Franky: Wants to sail around the world in a ship he built.
9. Brook: Wants to reunite with his long lost crew mate, laboon. (musician)
10.(not yet a straw hat) Jinbe: Wants friendship between humans and fishmen. (fishman)
When we look at the antagonists, their dreams(or my guess at their dreams) are all either unknown or related to power/wealth/strength etc. Except Monet, if her things astronomy.. They also don't need a cover story or a immediate flashback to give good hints about what it may or may not be. Which is why I said to ignore them. f.y.i
This suggest Oda doesn't normally hint at antagonistic characters having unique, potentially light hearted dreams unless they eventually become a straw hats. This of course isn't definite, but it IS interesting.
Luffy has said he wants 10 nakama, or just 1 more if we include Luffy. I'm going to assume that doesn't count his allies.
This is what is required for being a strawhat.
! Requirement:
1. Unique, well defined dream.
2. Unique role on the crew.
3. As Robby says, a clearly thought out design.
4. They must have a tragic past/ some sort of trial they are overcoming/have overcame.
4. If they are male, their backstories and dreams are revealed during the arc. Females****ba had their backstory/Dreams revealed later.
- Males always help fight an enemy in the arcs they are introduced. Females don't.
6. The starting fighting caliber of the members scales with each new nakama. i.e New strawhats start off stronger than older nakama
7. They can not have a crew.
8. They must also have distinct personalities and mannerisms.
9. Lastly they must be good-hearted, but this doesn't have to be obvious when you first meet them.
This is the obvious patterns we can recognize. Some of this isn't set in stone, but it provides a good basis for speculation. Given this info, it's not outrageous to think Monet could join. Some of you guys predicted Bartolomeo, Rebecca, and pretty much every other new character introduced in dressrosa… and none of them fulfilled the necessary requirement nearly as well. You can compare, but it's obvious to me Monet could fit better if she is indeed an astronomer with dreams of the sky. Bartolomeo would be a close second except he has a crew which is an automatic denial. You can laugh at Monet if you like, but first laugh at yourselves if you are going to be so pretentious.
Robby has said, though, that Monet's design is not unique and well thought out enough to be a strawhat??
I completely disagree. Monet has bright green hair and deathly pail skin and amber eyes. All of which are very uncommon/unique. She also sometimes wears unique thick lens almost bulls-eye glasses. Oh, and she's a bird lady. I know Robby's argument is there were several harpies during the punk-hazard arc.
I have reread the arc and checked the wiki and i'm pretty sure 1. There were no harpies in Brownbeards crew and 2. There were no other harpies on punk hazard except Monet. Perhaps I missed it, if so link me. Otherwise Monet is plenty unique enough to join the Strawhats. Heck even if there were a few more law altered I still think she's unique enough, but you don't have to agree. Harpy not being an actual race means you won't find another like her again in the story. I also think your standards are bias because there have only been 2 females to join the Strawhats, both of which are less unique than Monet. Oda is probably pressured to make women look a certain way if they join the crew(sexy) which would explain the boob growth and facial changes seen. I don't see you your argument.
Let's also discuss this statement.
I have some points regarding this:
! 1. "When commented on her looks and being told of her beauty, she bashfully blushed despite the serious situation. She also tried to cover herself with her wings and her knees buckle, suggesting she was rather shy to compliments. " - wiki
lol… clearly you have missed something most of us get.
2. How can you be sure she's not good hearted? You're fanficing just as much as I am, because neither of us know the truth. Monet has shown an incredible repertoire of personality types, any of which could be how she really feels.
3. We have seen/heard of some characters doing awful things, and ending up being good at heart. 'Bartolomeo the cannibal'. Duval was a slaver. Hachi/Jinbe destroyed villages and families. Robin was an assassin. Nami the thief. Mr. 2 was a utility bad guy. Boa Handcock has killed thousands if not more. Law can be a killing machine if he's provoked to act. Perona had no qualms with killing. Your beloved Brownbeard was a nasty pirate. Crocodile(if he's an ally) is capable of anything. Abdullah and jeet were psycho's. Need I say more? These guys show their true colors when they/after they encounter the straw hats. Almost all of them follow orders. I understand most of these people are 'allies' not crew members but you can't exclude anyone until you know why they are acting as they do.
4. Several of the lower doflamingo subordinates have already proven to be decent people(Baby 5, Senior Pink). If it weren't for their loyalty to doflamingo, their history would probably be a lot different. We know why Baby 5 committed atrocities, we have no idea what Monet's motivations are. Hence, its worthy of discussion.
That last points brings up a good point though. The biggest question i've found regarding this is Monet seems deathly loyal to doflamingo. How/why would she ever be a straw hat?
This I can't answer. However, without more info on her past ect. we can't definitively say this is a deal breaker. It's the biggest hole in the theory though, for sure.
So… let's go back to our requirements for being a straw hat and see how Monet fits/ doesn't fit.
! 1. There aren't many roles left to be filled on the straw hat crew. Astronomer would be one. In fact, I can't even think of a decent 2nd option but if you can plz add your ideas. check
2. If she's an astronomer, she's likely to have some unique dream related to the sky/stars/moons. check
3. Monet has a unique design, even though she is a bit standardized. Every other woman on the crew is more standard. check
4. In an SBS Oda has said doflamingo is good at finding broken people. This would indicate a tragic past of some kind for Monet. check
4. Being a female, it isn't required for us to already be formally introduced to her past/dreams. check
5.No female crew mate has helped fight enemies in the arc they are first introduced. check
6. Monet would be the ONLY logia on the crew. As the last to join this would be consistent with the expected fighting ability of the 11th member. check
7. She does not have a crew at the moment(if she's alive). check
8. Her personality is vastly different than Robins despite what Robby thinks. She much more charismatic, sociable, flurtatious ect. Very different. She also licks her lips. check
9. As we have seen throughout the serious, the straw hats light heartedness and determination change people. Is monet bad to the bone? idk. We need her to reappear. so for now check
You can continue to claim i'm looking for reasons to think she will join, but it's ignorant. This isn't fan fiction. Everything i've said is supported with evidence. This is a ton of evidence. I'm not saying "Monet will join!!! NO DOUBT", but to disregard the possibility is laughable. Given we are between arcs she's actually the best candidate we have at the moment, which is why i'm defending it. It has nothing to do with boobs, or some sort of fanatical devotion.
If you need actual panels for everything I just said I can provide them.
It's amazing the lengths people will go to cover up that they really just have a random boner for a completely and entirely random character.
Go draw hentai or write fanfic about her or whatever and please get it out of your system somehow.
