Well, that was a lot like the Office.
In that it wasn't funny.
Different strokes for different folks Robby :<
Well, that was a lot like the Office.
In that it wasn't funny.
Different strokes for different folks Robby :<
Critique.
Honest question here, Robby. I believe I get what you're saying on the whole (or at least inasmuch as I can, given that I haven't actually seen the thing that you are reviewing), but in what sense can you consider the jokes to even be 'fine' if you say the show isn't funny?
@Panda:
Honest question here, Robby. I believe I get what you're saying on the whole (or at least inasmuch as I can, given that I haven't actually seen the thing that you are reviewing), but in what sense can you consider the jokes to even be 'fine' if you say the show isn't funny?
There's some clever bits of dialogue and funny lines. Stuff that's good on paper.
The delivery, due to the editing, comes off as very dry. And a lot of it very somber and depressed, not quite right for the muppets.
The same jokes, in a more traditional format, would get the same jokes to work.
Its really hard to explain other than, they're doing it exactly like The Office. (right down to the font of the logo.) It'll just sort of stew over someone being neurotic and depressed, then they'll say something painful and sad, then it cuts away. The jokes are more about the characters being sad, than it is in them being crazy.
It's a very specific kind of comedy, and the Muppets are doing it exactly right, but I don't think its really right for the Muppets?
It's like the Muppets are trying to do the later seasons of MASH, where it was serious war stuff with some comedy sprinkled in, instead of the early crazy seasons of MASH where it was a comedy with some war sprinkled in.
Basically… if you took the exact same script, and threw it onto a show that wasn't Muppet related, it'd be funny, but not really my cup of tea. But through a Muppet filter? It doesn't really work. Its not the right fit for them.
Maybe it's just me, but Kermit swearing (even light swearing) just seems….wrong.
Yeah, "Hell" didn't bother me, but hearing Kermit say "sexy" threw me off something fierce.
The New Muppets Show was hilarious XD
Look forward to see tomorrows episode
I like this show; Uncle Deadly being an actual cast member alone is enough to sell me on it.
Muppets has been picked up for a full season. Apparently it's been doing really well. Thank god.
The past 2 episodes are much closer to what I was expecting out of the show. Hopefully it keeps up.
Sweedish Chef karaoke-ing Rappers Delight was one of the funniest things I've seen in a long while!
I…. completely forgot this was even airing after watching the first episode.
Guess I need to catch up. Must be online somewhere.
I…. completely forgot this was even airing after watching the first episode.
Guess I need to catch up. Must be online somewhere.
If you find it, can you please give a link?
I'm looking too, I can't get any reception in w/o cable so have no TV right now. Everything's online for me
if I find anything, I'll post a link
Sweedish Chef karaoke-ing Rappers Delight was one of the funniest things I've seen in a long while!
Ditto. It caught me totally by surprise and I must have re-watched it half a dozen times.
Season (series?) is over, and yeah, it's wasn't perfect or quite how I like my Muppets to be. But as an experience, it was pretty refreshing how candid it was. I think the more irreverent characters like Rizzo and Pepe benefited more from this format than the more traditional types like Kermit. Miss Piggy was pretty awful most of the time, but I'm glad they had her and Kermit take a break to get a better perspective on themselves as individuals, and I liked Kermit better for it. Didn't really dig Fozzie, either; he was all over the place. Gonzo was interesting as the less crazy and more down to earth guy, but I'm not sure what was up with having him not have Camilla as his girlfriend, then just shoving her back into the picture again. Most of these last 6 eps were like that, just scooting plot threads around to get back to the status quo before cancellation. Felt just like a manga like Cross Manage ending early, come to think of it.
What I did like: Uncle Deadly (the highlight of the show), Bobo, Mean Carl (& Carla), Yolanda, Chip, the trio of Gonzo/Rizzo/Pepe, Swedish Chef's Rapper's Delight, Scooter dating Chelsea Handler, and Willie Nelson singing with Floyd (since I always thought Jerry Nelson was related to Willie, very similar voices to me, but they're not. Go figure.)
It says something when I watched seven or eight episodes of this show, and then proceeded to not care and forgot it existed.
On the other hand, I have the entire classic Muppet Show now and have been watching that.
Muppets has been cancelled after 1 season. WAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!
Muppets has been cancelled after 1 season. WAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!
Can't say I'm surprised.
Well, better luck next time Muppets. Guess for now it's back to web videos and occasional commercials/cameos.
Maybe if the new show had actually been good and Muppety?
The exact same dialogue and writing and comedy style would have been fine for some other show. Take the same script and apply it to 30 Rock or something and it's fine. But it aint the Muppets.
I know . . . . . . .
We just want the old show revamped . . . .
I keep hearing they wouldn't do the old formula of the original since variety shows "were out" but yet that is exactly what fans of the Muppets wants.
I didn't even bother with this one because I hate the so-called " 'reality' TV" formula. The old style of the Muppet Show may be old but it works!
They're right in saying that Muppets only did a variety show at the time because that's what everyone else did. Muppets is just the only one that went into long term reruns so over the decades it became more of a Muppet thing than a "every comedian thing" for anyone that lived after the 70's.
Them doing a late night talk show in fine. That's in fact exactly the route they should have taken. Just play it straight, like a real talk show, and lots of celebrity guests, and ocassional peaks behind the curtain rather than full blown celebrity interviews for half an hour.
Unfortunately, instead of doing a talk show parody, they did an Office parody.
The style of the jokes, the delivery, the cut aways to talk to the camera, a huge mega plot with Piggy and Kermit dating other people, Fozzie dating human women outside the office plots? Yeah, they were trying to be the Office, which is not only 10 years out of date, just doesn't work for them. They should have been doing Conan O Brian or Space Ghost.
Muppet Babies releaunch announced for Disney Junior
Muppet Babies releaunch announced for Disney Junior
[https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14859906_10153808184932035_8419365223173272876_o.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9](https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14859906_10153808184932035_8419365223173272876_o.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)
^ my initial reaction
It won't be the same if they aren't blatantly barging into copyrighted material though.
I just hope they remember that despite the name, the show wasn't meant to be aimed strictly at babies.
Steve Whitmire is no longer working with the Muppets.
No official reason has been given yet but… that's crazy. The guy has been Kermit the Frog since 1990, almost as long Jim Henson himself had the role.
Matt Vogel will be taking over and we'll be seeing him in the role as soon as next week. I've heard him in some practice sessions and was not impressed, hopefully he's improved if he's taking the full role.
This is ridiculous. If he's being fired for some behind the scenes conflict, the specifics are something we may never know, since Whitmire understandably didn't elaborate and Disney was being as corporately smug as can be expected in their goodbye message. I doubt he presented any problems worse than some celebrities, but of course he's probably seen as more expendable because it's JUST his voice and hand…
And to top it off, Matt Vogel. I already can't stand him as the Count and even less so as Big Bird, but both those roles are understandable. Kermit, though? It's a nightmare. I'm just gonna imagine that Constantine successfully infiltrated this time and try to stomach it that way, but oy vey…
I wonder if Vogel being younger than Whitmere had anything to do with it. If it is, that makes me worry about them trying the same thing with Dave Goelz.
Whitmire is now saying he was fired and he never would have left on his own. So… not a health or retirement issue.
Hes apparently known he would be fired since October, and has tried really hard to convince the bosses otherwise.
And... this guy has been with Henson since 1978. (And Kermit since 1990.) You don't just fire a 40 year main spotlight employee that hasn't done anything demonstrably wrong.
And Vogel is only 10 years younger than Whitmire, so I can't imagine its a legit longevity "we need to pass the torch sort of thing" you do when one actor approaches 70 and you need a 30 year old in their place.
Also also, Artie Esposito has apparently been the understudy for Kermit for the last 10 years or so. He's the guy I've heard before that wasn't quite right. Apparently never heard Vogel's version, Constantine aside.
So... something went down in corporate.
Well, looking at the timeline, the show ended in March of 2016 so the decision to push him out was made in that six month gap; they might have needed a scapegoat.
We're also looking at potential recasts for Ernie, Rizzo, Statler, Swedish Chef and Beaker, among others. If it all becomes "The Vogel Show", I'm done.
Steve Whitmire is no longer working with the Muppets.
No official reason has been given yet but… that's crazy. The guy has been Kermit the Frog since 1990, almost as long Jim Henson himself had the role.
Matt Vogel will be taking over and we'll be seeing him in the role as soon as next week. I've heard him in some practice sessions and was not impressed, hopefully he's improved if he's taking the full role.
….. Why?!.... I've tried looking it up, do we have an official reason yet?!?! It's clear from his statements this was against his will... This sounds utterly horrible...
"I have offered multiple remedies to their two stated issues which had never been mentioned to me prior to that phone call," Whitemore said.
Whitmere is now saying that a big part of him getting fired was because he kept giving them character notes for the show.
Disney, meanwhile, says that it went beyond mere character notes to Steve consistently being a problem and actually holding up production on some of the episodes. Further, that they consulted with and got the approval of the Henson family before making the change.
http://www.tvguide.com/news/disney-fired-kermit-steve-whitmire-unacceptable-business-conduct/
Jim's daughter Cheryl actually is backing Disney on this.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So is Brian now.
Brian Henson, the company’s chairman and Jim Henson’s son, said that while Mr. Whitmire’s Kermit was “sometimes excellent, and always pretty good,” things changed when he was off set.
“He’d send emails and letters attacking everyone, attacking the writing and attacking the director,” he said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/arts/television/kermit-the-frog-disney-firing.html
Well. That's disappointing.
It was more fun to blame the faceless corporation.
If it's really a case of him getting ornery and basically hating everything being produced, that's sort of the same place Frank Oz ended up in eventually. He pretty much disavows everything post 2000.
First and foremost, if anyone wants to hear Whitmire's side of things, he's sharing a lot of insight on his new blog, a lot of it dealing with stuff from the old days before and leading up to the original Disney buyout deal: https://stevewhitmire-muppetpundit.com/
Now, it could certainly be that Steve Whitmire was too demanding of the dues he expected for himself, his fellow performers and the characters themselves. Past a certain extent, it probably would have been better to relent a bit on creative control, which it seems he was prepared to give up completely just to stay on. Too little too late, I guess, and Disney always technically had the right to fire him if he was hanging up their schedule or they felt they just couldn't work productively with him.
But honestly, to me it still seems like Disney is more in the wrong here. They just let go the second-to-last original Muppet performer for seemingly petty reasons. They cared more about their bottom line than about taking care of the people who have been the driving force of their acquisition's legacy. They only care about how marketable someone is. Vanessa Hudgens and Miley Cyrus had their fair share of scandal while still with Disney, but they were basically let off with a tap on the wrist because Disney knew dismissing them, even for understandable reasons, would have hurt their profit margins. They had no reservations with Whitmire since they see him as a basically replaceable backstage performer and non-vital to the Muppets. And because they have no solid reason for firing him, they're vilifying him by making his requests and notes and contract negotiations seem more outrageous, damaging and time-consuming than they probably were.
What I'd truly like to here is what some of his coworkers have to say about this. Dave Goelz seemed like he had a great rapport with him, and I'm sure if the rest of the performers were actually allowed to speak their minds and not have to fear Disney's retribution, there likely wouldn't be many who would have bad things to say about Whitmire.
Of course, I can't take anyone seriously, even one of Henson's heirs, who says stuff like this:
!
^ They have broken windows policy or something?
^ They have broken windows policy or something?
It was working when I posted it, I checked. Fixed now. It's just Cheryl Henson saying that Whitmire only got the job because Brian chose him and how his Kermit was basically awful, now with an added rebuttal of Jane Henson's interview where she intimates Kermit's successor was decided well before Jim Henson's passing.
One would think if Whitmire was Kermit for as long as he was he was doing fine in the role as opposed to being awful.
Kermit the Frog: a bitter, angry, depressed victim.
I think someone's projecting.
This reminds me of the plot of Muppets Most Wanted haha
If the Henson kids really had such a problem with Whitmore, you really think they'd have had him fired earlier than after he'd been in the role for 27 years. Or had him do just Sesame Street and have someone else do the movies.
If anything, the 12 year gap between Muppets in Space and The Muppets would have been an ideal time to switch.
There's clearly two sides here and clearly issues that we'll never know one way or another. But it's really, REALLY weird to have kept someone in the role for three decades if he was a problem.
Scooby Doo for instance has changed its entire voice cast several times over for a variety of reasons… except for Frank Welker as Fred.
Of course, I can't take anyone seriously, even one of Henson's heirs, who says stuff like this:
To be fair, doing a PR piece in 1990 right after Jim's death, you'd absolutely want to give the impression Jim approved,even if it wasn't true.
And also, opinions can change over 30 years. They might have found him fine then but not so much now?
I dunno.
I'm also reminded of the Tolkien estate. Where you have Christopher Tolkien who hates the films and disowned his children over them… whereas Tolkien's grandkids are cool with it and know the films help the source reach a wider audience.
Sometimes, just because you're the kids of the creator, doesn't actually make you the best choice to be in charge of the legacy. Though sometimes they're the perfect choice. It varies.
Honestly, is Disney even do anything big with the Muppets as puppets these days? The TV show had one season and that ended over a year ago with a whimper.
Honestly, is Disney even do anything big with the Muppets as puppets these days? The TV show had one season and that ended over a year ago with a whimper.
Two theatrical movies, a tv movie, holiday show, a tv show, several web series, and the upcoming Muppet Babies show all in the last six years ain't nothing. Its more than they did between 1999 and 2011.
That the TV show was misguided and not what anyone wanted was the fault of the people involved. No one wanted a Muppet version of the Office complete with relationship drama. But a Muppet Tonight Show starring Miss Piggy, which was the underlying premise, could have worked if they'd just settled on that.
After Muppets Tonight AND Muppets from Space both tanked they went pretty much silent for a decade.
Two theatrical movies, a tv movie, holiday show, a tv show, several web series, and the upcoming Muppet Babies show all in the last six years ain't nothing. Its more than they did between 1999 and 2011.
That the TV show was misguided and not what anyone wanted was the fault of the people involved. No one wanted a Muppet version of the Office complete with relationship drama. But a Muppet Tonight Show starring Miss Piggy, which was the underlying premise, could have worked if they'd just settled on that.
After Muppets Tonight AND Muppets from Space both tanked they went pretty much silent for a decade.
I meant after the TV show, but honestly, I sort of see your point; it will be awhile before Disney does anything with them again puppet wise (Disney bought them in 2004, and it was four years later when the idea for a new theatrical movie was pitched). I guess I'm trying to figure out what Whitmore and the rest of the puppeteers were doing because Whitmore's firing is the first real news about the Muppets since the show ended. I don't know, it doesn't feel like Disney has any real plans at the moment for them.
I didn't count the upcoming Muppet Babies reboot because it's animated. Personally, I feel like that show missed the point even more than the office one. Part of the joy of the Muppets is watching skilled puppetry, after all.
Muppet Babies actually worked really well, captured the characters, had decent songs, and was super successful as a result. It ran for like 8 years and over 100 episodes… and remained in syndication for years and years afterwards.
I have no idea how well it holds up as I haven't seen it in decades, but it seems like it did right by the property.
Eh. I feel like for TV and movies, the Muppets need to be puppets. It's a bit like the Fraggle Rock cartoon, maybe it was true to the characters, but you can't help but feel that part of the soul is missing and it wasn't worth the need to be cheaper and faster to produce for TV. Granted I haven't seen Muppet Babies since the mid 90's.
Also being a success meant that it helped spawn a host of bad cartoons starring younger versions of famous characters: Flintstone kids, Tom and jerry kids, jungle cubs, and the like, though I think a pup named scooby doo was decent. So I have to resent Muppet Babies a little for that.
You can't blame a good source material for its terrible imitators. That's like blaming Lord of the Rings for Eragon, and blaming Harry Potter for the Lighting Thief.
I thought Eragon was aping Star Wars…..at least that's what I remember them mentioning on X-Play.
Eragon was a Star Wars plot with a Lord of the Rings setting (and creatures)