Chapter 764: "White Monster"

chaosceptor

compare this to the picture sengoku had :ninja:

! http://i.imgur.com/vvPn2nS.png

Touche Oda. You had this planned since Law's introduction didn't you. I seriously hope that the translation "the D clan" doesn't stick around. Naruto has 4 weeks left, and as much a I like it, let's keep it way. The hint filled conversation with Law and Corazon is looking like it supports the D's being descendants of the Ancient Kingdom. You know, considering how the Celestial Dragons are "gods". In that flashback with Doflamingo nailed to wall and his father pleading for thier lives, it looks like that scream of his is gonna be followed by a COC blast that knocks everybody out. Followed by a mass slaughter of the angry mob, patricide to first degree, etc. Too excited for this arc's climax.

neurisse

@King:

A natural reaction would be crying and screaming in pain and fear, not swearing revenge and an ugly death to everyone involved.

That's the kind of stuff you expect from obviously mad/evil villains before they die laughing in the fire/guillotine/high fall/melting/lightning bolt/space-time portal and either come back as a vengeful spirit or cause an evil curse to befall the villagers.

I agree. I mean Doffy is swearing revenge while he is still at the mercy of the mob. They could very well kill him there and then. (Maybe they will try and Doffy will awaken his CoC)

Riquelme

@Saturnchild:

Indeed but it still seems silly to me that Vergo doesn't bother to do something as basic as actually changing his name

Remember Law stated that he joined the marine before he made is name similar to the Fisher Tiger flashback where it took a while before Jinbe actually got famous.

dropper

@desa:

Tell the admiral to not kill the children.

The children would only fight back and end up dead, Corazon is likely trying to negotiate save as many as he can, he has a lot of sympathy.

@Darth:

Sengoku was the one to authorize Ohara. They carried hunt witch hunt for Roger's Son.

You have it all wrong: 'he received orders from the World Government to carry out a secret mission. This mission was to send a Buster Call to obliterate Ohara.'

The Government/Nobles want to rid the world of 'D', erase the past, they can give orders to the Marines at any time to kill off a civilization, that doesn't mean that Sengoku necessarily wants to take those actions.

Rescuing children from Doflamingo's crew is more or less his duty as a Marine, however an incident involving 'D' is much more serious, he isn't in control of his actions. Look at Kuzan, he knows that there is an abuse of power, questions his own role, thus leaves the Marines. Sengoku co-operates, but even then there is corruption which he doesn't know about such as Vergo's connection with Doflamingo.

The balance of power between the Pirates, Marines and World Government is not what it seems, Oda touches on it with Smoker, Kuzan, Spandam, Ohara, Film Z…. but he is really getting into the meat of it now.

King Cannon

@Kizuchan:

So is the flashback saying people are born good/evil? Because that's not how humans work. If that's what it's supposed to be implying here, it's pretty terrible writing.

Dude, when you're at the mercy of a mob, being shot arrows and surrounded by fire, swearing revenge and saying that you won't die are the last human thing you can do.

Not saying that he was born evil, but he wasn't reacting like a human at all. While Roci was complaining about pain (an actual human emotion), Doula was casting plagues everywhere and acting like some sort of evil force of nature.

JaxSazz

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/764/2 "Le pavé de l'ours" on Franky's shirt : it's an old french saying which refers to causing harm to someone when trying to help them. It comes from an old legend about a bear (ours) throwing a cobblestone at a man to help him get rid of an insect or something similar
There is also "Jeter un pavé dans la mare", which literaly means "to throw a cobblestone in the pool/pond" and can translate to "putting a cat among the pigeons", and it seems that the Strawhats are playing in a pool.
Seriously, Oda… :wub:

Hmmm... D's called "God's natural enemy ?" Does it stand for Devil ? Is it related to DFs ?
Anyway, the hints given by Corazon seem to confirm one or two popular theories so far, it's very interesting.
This chapter also confirms Law x Baby 5, it seems

Admiral Issho

@Shadowgreed:

Ahhhh

I know, but I can't remember from which arc though

don't know if you're serious or neot but here you go

http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2270-15/one-piece/chapter-163.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/736

Kizuchan

@King:

Dude, when you're at the mercy of a mob, being shot arrows and surrounded by fire, swearing revenge is the last human thing you can do.

Not saying that he was born evil, but he wasn't reacting like a human at all. While Roci was complaining about pain (an actual human emotion), Doula was casting plagues everywhere.

Dofla's reaction was just as "human" as Roci's was. It's just a different reaction because he was clearly affected by the Tenryuubito's mindset more strongly. Rocinante never picked up the Tenryuubito's way of life as strongly as Doflamingo did, so in the end it was still the environment's fault. At least I hope that's what it is. Remember at that point of time when he was talking to Law, Dofla had already killed his father. Of course Rocinante would see him as a monster, along with him wishing to kill everyone there. Also, Dofla's speech in Marineford comes to mind.

Monquito

@JaxSazz:

This chapter also confirms Law x Baby 5, it seems

She needs to join Law's crew by the end of this. I can't see Law around the new world without her.

JaxSazz

@Monquito:

She needs to join Law's crew by the end of this. I can't see Law around the new world without her.

I'd really like that, actually, it'd be nice to see her later in the story.

Katzztar

@Seafarer33:

Yeah… To an extent, only. Real life doctors don't chase off their patients ; many caught the disease themselves trying to save others, in fact. That's really the part of the chapter that disturbs me the most, how every doctor they meet is portrayed as an ignorant selfish bastard.

Sadly, the OP world isn't an exact replica of real world events.
Ever since the Drum arc and even more with the CP9 cover story, I've gotten the feeling that the overall medical scene is that they are pre-18/19th century as far as accepting patients.

By that I mean while they have good medicines (shown by Law, Kureha, Chopper), they do not have the modern set of rules that govern hospitals and doctors.

A- can turn away a paitent that cannot pay (seen in CP9 mostly but Kureha was known to act like a pirate in taking 90% of a person's belongings as payment)
B- can refuse to treat a patient they think is contagious (akin how some doctors in past refused to treat various skin conditions, lumping them together with Leprosy, even when they weren't.)

King Cannon

@Kizuchan:

Dofla's reaction was just as human as Roci's was. It's just a different reaction because he was clearly affected by the Tenryuubito's mindset more strongly. Rocinante never picked up the Tenryuubito's way of life as strongly as Doflamingo did, so in the end it was still the environment's fault.

"I won't die!" (gets shot while being crucified) "You'll pay for this! I will survive!" (gets shot again)

What kind of human reaction is that? He literally went "demonic lord" mode there.

Razh

@JaxSazz:

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/764/2 "Le pavé de l'ours" on Franky's shirt : it's an old french saying which refers to causing harm to someone when trying to help them. It comes from an old legend about a bear (ours) throwing a cobblestone at a man to help him get rid of an insect or something similar
There is also "Jeter un pavé dans la mare", which literaly means "to throw a cobblestone in the pool/pond" and can translate to "putting a cat among the pigeons", and it seems that the Strawhats are playing in a pool.
Seriously, Oda… :wub:

There's an expression in my country. A "bear favor" or "favor from a bear" would be the closest translation. It's like you mentioned, when you try to help someone and instead make things worse, lol.

Wonder why the bear, though. Probably comes from the same legend, or a similar one.

Jabra

Will we see Mr. Crane next week?

Mr. Luffy

I don't think he meant Doflamingo was "evil" per se. More like he was born a psychopath that was easily inclined to do monstrous things. The lynching just pushed him further to manifesting those desires.

PhoenixBoosh

Wait Celestial Dragons are inbred? o.O

neurisse

@Kizuchan:

Dofla's reaction was just as human as Roci's was. It's just a different reaction because he was clearly affected by the Tenryuubito's mindset more strongly. Rocinante never picked up the Tenryuubito's way of life as strongly as Doflamingo did, so in the end it was still the environment's fault. At least I hope that's what it is. Remember at that point of time when he was talking to Law, Dofla had already killed his father. Of course Rocinante would see him as a monster. Also, Dofla's speech in Marineford comes to mind.

But it's not solely because of the environment. Seeing as two people who grew up in the same environment did not have the same reaction. I believe this is what Oda is referring to. In the same situation, with the same upbringing, Doffy chose a different path compared to his brother.

Razh

@Jabra:

Will we see Mr. Crane next week?

I saw some people mentioning Crane along with marines, but I wasn't sure what it was about. Is that what it says on the sail of the marine ship?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@PhoenixBoosh:

Wait Celestial Dragons are inbred? o.O

If they don't mix with "lower races" it's probably inevitable. Nineteen families, 700 years…

ARTEMlS

About the Vergo name issue, maybe Cora actually has told him about the name Vergo in an earlier report, and Sengoku therefore already knows about him and wants to double cross Vergo and Doula. However, in an upcoming incident Vergo turns the table by faking evidence so that it seems that Cora is the traitor on the side of Doula. And then, Doula sacrifices his brother by letting him fight against the marines via Parasito.

JaxSazz

@Razh:

There's an expression in my country. A "bear favor" or "favor from a bear" would be the closest translation. It's like you mentioned, when you try to help someone and instead make things worse, lol.

Wonder why the bear, though. Probably comes from the same legend, or a similar one.

It might be of latin origin. This french saying comes from XVth century and latin was still used a lot by intellectuals at the time.

Razh

@Bartholemew:

About the Vergo name issue, maybe Cora actually has told him about the name Vergo in an earlier report, and Sengoku therefore already knows about him and wants to double cross Vergo and Doula. However, in an upcoming incident Vergo turns the table by faking evidence so that it seems that Cora is the traitor on the side of Doula. And then, Doula sacrifices his brother by letting him fight against the marines via Parasito.

For now I think Dofla let Vergo keep his name on purpose to see if he has a traitor near. And Corazon is possibly keeping quiet because he knows he would be a suspect if Vergo was discovered. Or he's not entirely faithful towards marines.

I have a funny feeling Dofla knows more about Corazon than it seems.

Monquito

What if Sengoku kwew everything about Vergo?? and just let him go to G5 because he could get killed there.

he wasn't wrong about Vergo getting raped for joining G5

King Cannon

This post is deleted!

Shadowgreed

@Admiral:

don't know if you're serious or neot but here you go

http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2270-15/one-piece/chapter-163.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/736

I was serious man, I had the feeling that I've seen that person or attire before and now I know from where.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Cannon I know a guy who kill his mother when he was born, do that still count?

neurisse

@Shadowgreed:

I was serious man, I had the feeling that I've seen that person or attire before and now I know from where.

Isn't that a Japanese thing? to portray someone being sneaky.

Kizuchan

Whatever it ends up being, I hope it doesn't go "he was already born this way" route. That's dumb. Because people have very different reactions to experiences like that. In Rocinantes case it was praying for his life to survive, Doflamingo's case it was the wish to survive, but in a angry, confrontational way. It's not out of nowhere or illogical in that sense, I think. Now I'm just really eager to see the next chapter already.

JaxSazz

@Admiral:

don't know if you're serious or neot but here you go

http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2270-15/one-piece/chapter-163.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/736

What is there to see on those two pages ? (except Vivi being called BB )

EDIT : Nevermind, I just realized. Where does this pattern come from ?

Shadowgreed

@neurisse:

Isn't that a Japanese thing? to portray someone being sneaky.

I believe so yeah, but like Pandaman I had the impression that I've seen something pretty similar in OP before but it turned out to be just the attire. Shame on me

Razh

@Shadowgreed:

I believe so yeah, but like Pandaman I had the impression that I've seen something pretty similar in OP before but it turned out to be just the attire. Shame on me

Well I searched for OP joke characters and he isn't there. It might have been from a different manga. Maybe Rave (Master) or something.

SpeedoCentaur

The only sensible reason I could see for Sengoku sending Vergo to G5 is this: Sengoku doesn't know about his metal DF, so he underestimates his strength. Really the only valid explanation.

Razh

@SpeedoCentaur:

The only sensible reason I could see for Sengoku sending Vergo to G5 is this: Sengoku doesn't know about his metal DF, so he underestimates his strength. Really the only valid explanation.

Eggs are rich in iron, too. :ninja:

Sads

JaxSazz

@SpeedoCentaur:

The only sensible reason I could see for Sengoku sending Vergo to G5 is this: Sengoku doesn't know about his metal DF, so he underestimates his strength. Really the only valid explanation.

Does Vergo really have a DF ?

Monquito

@JaxSazz:

Does Vergo really have a DF ?

Vagabond died believing this, we're fighting for Vagabond's will.((not really lol))

joekido the Second

I have a feeling that Oda is writing himself to the wall here. If Rocinante was in the Marines, How could Vergo not known? And why was Vergo not present 16 years ago?

kouch_lee

It seems everything's been covered one way or another. Some really incredible findings, but I'm particularly impressed by how Oda basically summed up Donquixote Homing and Donquixote Rocinante's actions in a single sentence printed on Franky's shirt on the colorspread. That's just nuts.

Seeing the no-make up, marine mugshot of Rocinante and then finding it on the marine colorspread? Holy shit. I just. . .can't believe Oda had not just Dofla's brother planned in advance, but him being a marine spy.

I for one trully appreciate many things we saw on this chapter, and by extension, on this flashback as a whole, first being, as that particular saying on Franky's shirt says, that some characters make mistakes even when acting with the best of intentions. They even monologue about it, like Rocinante did here. He just drowns in alcohol and self-deprecation as he wonders why he's spent 6 months trying to find a cure for Law, failing at it AND making him feel worse and more miserable each and every time. . .and yet he does it with all his heart. And THAT ultimately wins Law over. If that's not good writing, I don't know what is. People seeing it as bad because Roci is not making everything right I think are totally missing the point; because even after the first really bad experience with the doctor he just keeps going at it again and again, even as Law begs him to stop making him feel so bad. . .he stubbornly keeps "making mistakes" cause, deep down inside, he thinks one of these doctors are gonna cure Law, which would instantly make everything worthwhile. It just. . .never seems to happen. And you can see his infinite frustration.

When Oda WANTS, he's an incredible writer. Just for that, I think stuff being discused to death here that's actually legit (why didn't Roci mention Vergo to Sengoku?, etc. . .) could perfectly get overlook and just appreciate this tragic character piece that Oda wrote in here. Hell, who's not feeling a bit warmer towards Law? After seeing him just beg for this pain to go away? After seeing him cry his eyes out after Roci's teary, honest words?

Fantastic stuff overall. I almost. . . . . . .don't wanna go back to present time Dressrosa, lol.

Hall of Shame mention goes to both Mangapanda and Mangastream for completely forgetting to mention Tsuru on the chapter. Awesome, really.

And yeah, I honestly subscribe to Aohige, Daz and co's opinion that these past 3 chapters and a half basically best everything Oda's done since the timeskip. . .even though I love the Colosseum chapters, which are the next best thing so far for me.

Razh

@joekido:

I have a feeling that Oda is writing himself to the wall here. If Rocinante was in the Marines, How could Vergo not known? And why was Vergo not present 16 years ago?

Because Vergo is a rookie who's been in marines and Rocinante is a secret agent responding directly to an admiral.

Oh yeah, remember when people were pondering whether it was Dofla or Corazon shown in Chapter 0 at Roger's execution. Comparing thier facial lines and whatnot. All that time, Corazon was watching silently from One Piece Z color spread.

Shadowgreed

@joekido:

I have a feeling that Oda is writing himself to the wall here. If Rocinante was in the Marines, How could Vergo not known? And why was Vergo not present 16 years ago?

That's a weird wall he's writing himself into then

enkidude

i have a feeling sengoku does know about vergo via corazon, and that corazon was just being aloof. he didn't have to tell law where vergo was or why, anytime something is withheld, then the possibility is still there. corazon is obviously working with the marines, and not a marine himself (although sure, i could be wrong, i just really doubt that theory), who are to some degree more neutral and suited to sort these matters out themselves, than of course the WG or the CD.

anyone can give information to the police, and i'm sure corazon could prove he is a credible source.

corazon will get caught aiding the marines, corazon is killed, possibly by vergo, who discovers this, and whoops on law. the marines keep vergo with them to monitor him. if they know who he is, and pretend they don't, they can counterspy him and keep a close watch on the going-ons.

Shadowgreed

@Razh:

Well I searched for OP joke characters and he isn't there. It might have been from a different manga. Maybe Rave (Master) or something.

Probably !

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@enkidude:

i have a feeling sengoku does know about vergo via corazon, and that corazon was just being aloof. he didn't have to tell law where vergo was or why, anytime something is withheld, then the possibility is still there. corazon is obviously working with the marines, and not a marine himself (although sure, i could be wrong, i just really doubt that theory), who are to some degree more neutral and suited to sort these matters out themselves, than of course the WG or the CD.

The invisible page
[hide][/hide]

onemoment

Okay, this chapter I'm seeing how Rocinante is related to his Dad. What a sweetheart! This chapter laid is on a little think, but whatever. This guy is a nice dude, taking time out of the mission to stop his brother in order to save a kids life.

Hypperactive

Why would Sengoku make the assumption Vergo was weak? That's just stupid.

enkidude

@Shadowgreed:

Probably !

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

The invisible page

sorry, i have to ask what you mean exactly

JaxSazz

When I think about it, Oda made a pretty clever choice in choosing the Nagi Nagi fruit for an undercover agent.

Shadowgreed

@enkidude:

sorry, i have to ask what you mean exactly

By you: corazon is obviously working with the marines, **and not a marine himself

You even see his rank on that page**

Light Bro

@enkidude:

corazon is obviously working with the marines, and not a marine himself (although sure, i could be wrong, i just really doubt that theory)

Then why was he shown having a commander rank?

enkidude

that could just mean commander within donquixote's crew. or he could be an "honorable" non-active commander for providing key information. him being a marine is not stated, his picture on the marine coverspread could still be construed as him being only a marine in recognition. we'll see for sure though and i will concede to being wrong here!

Monquito

@enkidude:

that could just mean commander within donquixote's crew. or he could be an "honorable" non-active commander for providing key information. him being a marine is not stated, his picture on the marine coverspread could still be construed as him being only a marine in recognition. we'll see for sure though and i will concede to being wrong here!

You're already wrong.

enkidude

@Monquito:

You're already wrong.

rosinante being a marine or not doesn't change much, and either situation has it's own set of questions regarding the larger set of events which is what were sorting out here. i'm merely waiting for solid evidence that he is without a doubt a marine, just not trying to get ahead of myself. again, certainly ok to be incorrect here, but just pointing out that it could still be ambiguous.

keepitsimple

mangastream link for those unaware.

great chapter. Corazon working with Sengoku was surprising.