I think people are also mixing up what's going to be available in the demo vs. the full game. Pretty sure I read somewhere that only being able to control Noctis was just said in relation to the demo.
SQUARE ENIX - Single Player RPGs are dead?
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Why is the gameplay so streamlined for?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I also don't really think it's fair to bash on Square for this like as if they've never included females.
This is actually the first console Final Fantasy to star a male character in 8 years....
It isn't inherently a bad thing to not have playable female characters. Of course, the gaming industry is disproportionate with the lack of female leads, but I don't think this company/game is a good example to bash on. Square shouldn't have to necessarily lead social progress every game - if you even want to consider shoehorning in female playable characters social progress.
Basically, what I'm saying is that this is the wrong angle to attack the issue on, is all.
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This is actually the first console Final Fantasy to star a male character in 8 years….
They've only had one game in the last 8 years.
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They've only had one game in the last 8 years.
I said console games. I meant in general
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV (you create your own character since it's an MMO)
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII -
I said console games. I meant in general
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV (you create your own character since it's an MMO)
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIIII only see one game in your list. The MMO doesn't count.
Same characters, setting, assets, and continued storyline? Its the same game. Just stretched out.
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I only see one game in your list. The MMO doesn't count.
Same characters, setting, assets, and continued storyline? Its the same game. Just stretched out.
They marketed each individual game, the battle systems are different, the exploration aspect grew bigger with each game, and LR:FFXIII has a lot of new assets I think.
Either way, the point still stands: There hasn't been a Final Fantasy game released on consoles with a male main lead in 8 years.
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And it was carrying through a single narrative.
If they'd done actual other iterations with different casts, yes, you'd have some sort of point. But saying "well, the one story they told most recently didn't have a male lead" doesn't hold all that much weight, regardless of how long ago they started that particular story. (Especially when it had several male party members)
That's like complaining Star Wars had Luke Skywalker as the lead for three movies, or that the Godfather kept focusing on Michael. Or like saying "Pixar hasn't had a movie starring sentient cars or talking mice recently" since they've only had one of those in the last 8 years.
Beyond that shallow comparison, Square has released Crystal Chronicles, Crisis Core, Dissidia 1 and 2, Tactics A2, Bravely Default, the World Ends With You, Xenogears, and remakes of several older Dragon Quest, Star Ocean, Ogre Battle, and FF games, all which have mixed casting.
What's the deal if they haven't had a guy lead (but multiple guy costars) in essentially ONE outing of ONE franchise?
Its a really weird point to make.
They also haven't made a GOOD legit numbered Final Fantasy game in 15 years. On the PS1! That's a much more pressing point.
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There's even a Japanese petition to change it.
The fandom actually have power to change a game in development so drastically?
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The fandom actually have power to change a game in development so drastically?
Normally I wouldn't put much faith into it but it worked for DQ IX.
Originally it was supposed to be more MMO-like (looked liked FFXII, seemed kinda interesting). Massive backlash caused them to ditch that and go back to the classic style.
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And well, they restarted development a few times already, so what's stopping them from doing it again?
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I don't want to sound rude, but those fans should just go buy Little Big Planet and let Square work on their baby.
(awesome game btw) -
Tetsuya Nomura has ALWAYS been an awful character designer, basically cloning his main characters time and time again, but Square decided to push for him because he creates more marketable designs. . .I guess? Obviously, Amano was 10 times more creative and unique, but I guess he's not "hip" enough. And yet, this game seems to be his all time low. There's not a single drop of charisma in there to be found. Awful.
And I know it's just a trailer and there'll be many more locations, but those shown so far are. . .lackluster to say the least. Desert, deserted area, forest, deserted industrial place. . .if there's one thing FF have excelled at since VII, is creating absolutely memorable cities/locations/sceneries, and so far this is as run-of-the-mill as it gets. It seems our own world, to be honest. . .
I've been out of the FF franchise ever since FFIX, just "watching it" from afar, but it seems I haven't missed much. . .
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I don't get it why you all are ranting about the characters now since we already knew they for quite a while.
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Is it true that Square finally put their foot down and fired Nomura off this so he could actually start making progress on KHIII
Because if so lollllllll
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I don't get it why you all are ranting about the characters now since we already knew they for quite a while.
I just saw them now. Haven't been paying attention to FF since they decided to rehash XIII a gazillion times, so, yeah, I think this is the first time I've seen the main group of XV protagonists + the locations they'll visit.
@Cyan:
Is it true that Square finally put their foot down and fired Nomura off this so he could actually start making progress on KHIII
Because if so lollllllll
Are you implying this isn't even made by Nomura, but a Nomura copycat?
Edit: Oh, so apparently he was directing this thing. I guess that's what you meant. But the character designs are his doing anyways.
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And it was carrying through a single narrative.
If they'd done actual other iterations with different casts, yes, you'd have some sort of point. But saying "well, the one story they told most recently didn't have a male lead" doesn't hold all that much weight, regardless of how long ago they started that particular story. (Especially when it had several male party members)
That's like complaining Star Wars had Luke Skywalker as the lead for three movies, or that the Godfather kept focusing on Michael. Or like saying "Pixar hasn't had a movie starring sentient cars or talking mice recently" since they've only had one of those in the last 8 years.
Beyond that shallow comparison, Square has released Crystal Chronicles, Crisis Core, Dissidia 1 and 2, Tactics A2, Bravely Default, the World Ends With You, Xenogears, and remakes of several older Dragon Quest, Star Ocean, Ogre Battle, and FF games, all which have mixed casting.
What's the deal if they haven't had a guy lead (but multiple guy costars) in essentially ONE outing of ONE franchise?
Its a really weird point to make.
They also haven't made a GOOD legit numbered Final Fantasy game in 15 years. On the PS1! That's a much more pressing point.
I would have agreed on the FFXIII trilogy-single story reason by now, if it wasn't for the fact that it took the whole generation though. 8 years. But eh, I overall understand where you're coming from with that.
And, well, whether or not it is good is subjective… some people think FFX or FFXII are the best...
Anyway, I don't' think the fact that they haven't had a male character in a while is a big deal - no that's not it.
I was just using it as a point for why having an all male cast isn't that big a deal since we haven't had one in some time. They wanna focus on Noctis and his friends exclusively, and kind of want them to stick out more as the main heroes of the game, since, well, they are. Everyone else, based on the trailer from last E3, seems to be a threat. The point I'm trying to make is that this company/game doesn't really deserve criticism. After all, the games you mentioned are proof of that. So it's a not a big deal if they let that aside in order to tell a type of story they've never tackled before.
The industry has some problems with this, but going towards a company like Square who's done good in this regard makes the issue seem like "whining" towards other people.
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Dude.
8 years since the last numbered non-MMO one. Who gives a shit if they had extras inbetween and a whole generation. It's pretty much a ridiculous point because it's taken forever for any progress in
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steps over the puddle that is FFXV
So how about that Bravely Second?
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New trailer from TGS in the Bravely Default thread!
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Oh right, forgot we had a Bravely Default thread.
steps back over FFXV puddle to go to the Bravely Default thread
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The point I'm trying to make is that this company/game doesn't really deserve criticism. After all, the games you mentioned are proof of that. So it's a not a big deal if they let that aside in order to tell a type of story they've never tackled before.
The industry has some problems with this, but going towards a company like Square who's done good in this regard makes the issue seem like "whining" towards other people.
It's Square-ENIX, they always deserve criticism. Like "Where the fuck is my DQ 7 for the 3DS?" or "Why don't you localize the damn DQ Monster games?" or "Stop allocating resources to those damn ios games" or "Why did you kick the Type-0 fan translators in the balls?" or "Why aren't you doing anything else with the Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre franchise?" or "Where the hell is TWEWY2?" and so on. I can go on all day about their shittiness.
Even if it is a fairly "unique" (Snort) setup, I'm sure this will end up being generic anime blandness. The character designs just scream "Put me in a BLAND ANIME!" or my new word "BLANIME!"
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@Purple:
Dude.
8 years since the last numbered non-MMO one. Who gives a shit if they had extras inbetween and a whole generation. It's pretty much a ridiculous point because it's taken forever for any progress in
It's Square-ENIX, they always deserve criticism. Like "Where the fuck is my DQ 7 for the 3DS?" or "Why don't you localize the damn DQ Monster games?" or "Stop allocating resources to those damn ios games" or "Why did you kick the Type-0 fan translators in the balls?" or "Why aren't you doing anything else with the Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre franchise?" or "Where the hell is TWEWY2?" and so on. I can go on all day about their shittiness.
Even if it is a fairly "unique" (Snort) setup, I'm sure this will end up being generic anime blandness. The character designs just scream "Put me in a BLAND ANIME!" or my new word "BLANIME!"
Wait no, I'm saying Square doesn't deserve too much criticism for gender inclusion, since they've been generally good in that regard, and a lot better in comparison to other companies. That's what I meant.
They deserve criticism a lot elsewhere though…. lol
I remember when I started looking up info about the Final Fantasy series in mid 2012, and one of things that intrigued me about it was the fact that each game was different. Different story, different characters, different music, different themes, different risks, etc. It felt so magical, like I wanted to really delve deep into it.
So it's kind of pathetic how long we've taken to get FFXV.
I mean, we just had the longest generation in a while (7-8 years), and they spend that time releasing a broken MMO, a linear RPG, a sequel that reused a lot of the assets from said game, and a another sequal made up of new assets that looked mediocre as hell, with a bad story to boot.
The hell is this square? What happened to 3 unique games per gen? We got that in the PS2 generation, and a sequel, all within 5-6 years.
Square was efficient as hell in the late 90's. FFVIII in 99, and announcements of FFIX, FFX, and FFXI: Each which came out a year after the other.
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All in all I think you're looking waaaayyy too deep at things and missing the bigger picture. For instance, 7-8 years isn't really that long of a generation compared to the other generations if we're (but still Square what's up with that)
Not that I personally mind the gender makeup of the party, just sayin
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@Purple:
All in all I think you're looking waaaayyy too deep at things and missing the bigger picture. For instance, 7-8 years isn't really that long of a generation compared to the other generations if we're (but still Square what's up with that)
Not that I personally mind the gender makeup of the party, just sayin
yeah but I'm pissed because I disliked FFXIII a bit, so I'm stuck playing older games to get enjoyment out of this series :P
I just used that as a way to prove my point about how slow Square is with FF games.
unless I'm misunderstanding you or something… if so, forgive me
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The main problem isn't the game taking forever the come out. It's the fact that it took so long to do it and STILL ends up being a pile of shit (or even being semi-good/mediocre). Aka…that one Duke Nukem Game.
So yeah...FF15 has some big shoes to fill and probably wouldn't fulfill expectations based on how it looks (in trailers) and is described.
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Duke Nukem forever was juggled around various development studios and at the end was just given the Gearbox to finish and shove out the door. It and FFXV aren't really comparable besides both taking forever to come out (and HL3 really isn't either, it's more comparable to FFXV). That doesn't mean that FFXV will be good though. Just that it's not really in the same situation as DNF was, it's just being incompetently developed it seems.
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Duke Nukem forever was juggled around various development studios and at the end was just given the Gearbox to finish and shove out the door. It and FFXV aren't really comparable besides both taking forever to come out (and HL3 really isn't either, it's more comparable to FFXV). That doesn't mean that FFXV will be good though. Just that it's not really in the same situation as DNF was, it's just being incompetently developed it seems.
The point was that the game was expected for a long period of time and folks had expectations for it in spite of the internal problems. And after it is FINALLY released, people will obviously be unhappy for waiting for such a long while and ending up with a shitty game.
With FF Verses/15, some deluded folks still have high expectations for it, but if it ends up being mediocre or bad then it's going to get a pretty severe backlash. The situation is obviously different for both, but the idea behind the "development time" and "fan expectations" are pretty much what I was going for.
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We will eventually reach a point where expectation backlash will kill anything that has sizable marketing and exposure, no matter how good it is.
Some would argue that we're already there.
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Except, you know…Square has so much money and a huge blind fanbase that will buy anything with the label "FF" smushed onto it (or heck, their name squashed on it) that any potential backlash for a video game would be a mere tickle. Afterall, This is the company that considered Tomb Raider a financial failure.
PS: It's inevitable that a ton of people will buy FF15 in the end anyway.
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The cast of this game look to me, in a word: Punchable. The lead is basically Sasuke for chrissakes. Ever since FFX Squenix has been aiming for the most hyper amazing photoreal graphics, but everything has just gotten more boring to look at as a result. Its like they have completely shunned the concept of creative art direction, and feel obligated to slave for years, wringing out every last bit of console horsepower possible in to make the lead characters crap hairstyle blow in the wind in just the right way, because "thats FFs trademark! It HAS to be the prettiest!"
But I'm one of those freaks who didn't mind the misshapen FFVII lego men, so what do I know. Much more worrisome is their stance on the actual gameplay:
@a:
With the hardware specifications of the newer consoles, it's possible to set it up so you have different enemies and different choices of attacks you can enter in, but I want to simplify that.
Oh, thats possible now with the hardware specs is it? Wow, different enemies and the ability to enter different commands when facing them, what a novel concept to the series, but he's right, that would be too much of a fucking hassle, good call not going down that route
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@Daz:
The cast of this game look to me, in a word: Punchable. The lead is basically Sasuke for chrissakes. Ever since FFX Squenix has been aiming for the most hyper amazing photoreal graphics, but everything has just gotten more boring to look at as a result. Its like they have completely shunned the concept of creative art direction, and feel obligated to slave for years, wringing out every last bit of console horsepower possible in to make the lead characters crap hairstyle blow in the wind in just the right way, because "thats FFs trademark! It HAS to be the prettiest!"
But I'm one of those freaks who didn't mind the misshapen FFVII lego men, so what do I know. Much more worrisome is their stance on the actual gameplay:
As I said…
I loved the "fantasy" theme for some characters beyond human way more... like in IX...
Love everyone of them and still my favourite game design wise, even if some people say it was too cartoony
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Whoa, I kicked something off here. I'm not casting Square Enix into a fiery pit for having an all-male party this time - I was just responding to those who had been previously claiming that people had no right to feel disappointed about that fact.
I guess it does tie in to the less interesting character designs though. FFIX was obviously the pinnacle of that in the post-Nintendo era (VI before that) but FFX had Seymour, Lulu, Kimhari…I mean, FF was almost the Doctor Who of franchises, jumping all over the place in terms of aesthetic, atmosphere and genre mechanics, but still maintaining some consistency in terms of what made the series. Maybe we were just spoiled by a good run in the 90s, I dunno. Though I really loved FFXII, that was because of the open world aspects and mechanics, and not so much the plot or characters (though I love Dr Cid and Balthier).
If you're going to take the game aspects out of your game, you'd better at least have enough setting and story to distract from that fact. This is shaping up to be a disappointment if it fails on both grounds.
Though in my heart of hearts, I think I'm just wishing I could go back to the PSX era again and experience those games for the first time.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
my new word "BLANIME!"
Most important thing to come out of this thread.
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Well….I hope, by the time it's announced (next year lol) that Final Fantasy XVI is cel-shaded. That way we could have all the gameplay stuff we want (huge towns, tons of enemies, expansive world, unique characters) and SE won't have to complain about the costs or be able to achieve such things with HD graphics.
Knowing them, however, they might just pull a DQ and shift the mainline to 3DS or something.
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_Tabata on the battle system:
- The battle system will feature very flashy moves and abilities, and feel like an action packed flow of moves. There will be warping and magic attacks, and there will be combination attacks with party members which are generated automatically based on context._ Sounds like KHII - He also mentions that because this is a RPG, you can also play more strategically, and that during combat you can pause the game into a menu and adjust party behavior, change weapons, etc. Hasn't this been standard for ages?
- The weapon system in the game is treated like a deck. You set weapons on the deck in the menu, and during combat the most appropriate weapon in the deck will be used based on the situation. KH: Chain of Memories. Well not really. I guess it'll be a cool feature if the AI can recognise your water sword or whatever is good against fire monsters and switch weapons for you.
- The evasion in the game is executed by "defensive movement" which is a stance the player goes into when holding down the defense button. This allows the player to move around defensively avoiding attacks. This sounds really weird, evading attacks while defending? not blocking?
- The battle system will feature very flashy moves and abilities, and feel like an action packed flow of moves. There will be warping and magic attacks, and there will be combination attacks with party members which are generated automatically based on context._ Sounds like KHII - He also mentions that because this is a RPG, you can also play more strategically, and that during combat you can pause the game into a menu and adjust party behavior, change weapons, etc. Hasn't this been standard for ages?
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About the last part, here's what I can assume. You have the choice to attack at the same time an enemy does, and if your attack is quick enough, you'd hit and interupt the enemy. Otherwise, your attack could be too slow and you'd be attacked/interupted. With the defensive stance, you'd use your "turn" to make an evasive maneuver instead. That's what I can gather, considering I was sort of writing up an idea for a battle system with something similar to this too. The idea is to create an action that gets rid of holding a button block to either easily reduce damage or perfectly ward off damage with no real penalty or gamble(it's fundamentally boring imo).
Aside that, I don't really know and it could be something different for all I know. Side note. I mentioned "turn" in my post, but I only said that because I still think this battle system still might have some turned based elements desipte the action oriented approach(because it's Final Fantasy and I don't think the later games truly had real time combat. Just hybrids).
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- The evasion in the game is executed by "defensive movement" which is a stance the player goes into when holding down the defense button. This allows the player to move around defensively avoiding attacks. This sounds really weird, evading attacks while defending? not blocking?
Sounds like the Kingdom hearts Dodge Roll to me
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I think it's closer to the way you automatically dodge the crowd with one button in Assassin's Creed.
You can't continuously dodge or block in KH. You have to do it at the right moment and in the right direction.
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Oh God. I can't believe it I am posting something so old.
As you can see if there is something that it was similar as what Tabata said was the Battle System, but if I have to compare to some game, that would be Type-0 and of course I not have the right to say, the gameplay looks amazing. Also Travis, Magnus and Not Zell are playable as well, both having different gameplay. I understand the hate for the so no "Fantasy" characters and settings, but those things are totally irelevant to judge a game and what really should be pointed is how something that it looked already good enough they try to remade so much it gets mixed results, like making a good chocolate cake and then add unnecessary stuff and make it tastes odd. -
Considering that they've scrapped development multiple times already to start over again, the gameplay could be a good deal different now
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@Purple:
Considering that they've scrapped development multiple times already to start over again, the gameplay could be a good deal different now
I\am\well\aware\of\this\and\is\exactly\the\point\I\wanted\to\make.
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I haven't played FFIX but would anyone mind explaining why the hell Zidane has a tail.
It's kind of a huge spoiler so peer into the covers and eat this fruit of knowledge if you wish to indulge yourself without playing the game (like I did lol)
! Basically this dude named Garland (unrelated to FFI's Garland) from a parallel world of the main world in FFIX created this race of humanoid people called "Genomes". Zidane is one such Genome, but it's not revealed until later on the story along with Garland.
! Extra spoilers as to why the heck Zidane's even on the main world.
! >! Basically Garland was tasked to kill all life on the main world because everyone on his world was basically dying away and needed to move over in terms of their souls, so of these Genomes, a few were created with the main purpose of eradicating life on the main world. Kuja (the main antagonist) was one such "Angel of Death" but was deemd a failure while Zidane was considered correctly made, which pissed Kuja off, and so he left the young Zidane on the main world where he grew up blissfully unaware of his true nature and origins -
Now I can go back to playing Dissidia Duocedim without racking my brain over that.
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Speaking of FFIX, I really hope that it someday makes it to PC via Steam. Might be wishful thinking though, since the others made it due to already having PC ports made in the early 2000s.
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FFXIII is getting ported so it's open that other FF games that didn't have ports before will get ported. That's assuming they didn't lose the source code, which seems to be pretty common for Japanese studios. And anyway I don't think FFVII's and whatever other games were rereleased were all that much better on PC than on the PS1. Upping the resolution just stretches the prerendered backgrounds.
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@Purple:
It's kind of a huge spoiler so peer into the covers and eat this fruit of knowledge if you wish to indulge yourself without playing the game (like I did lol)
! Basically this dude named Garland (unrelated to FFI's Garland) from a parallel world of the main world in FFIX created this race of humanoid people called "Genomes". Zidane is one such Genome, but it's not revealed until later on the story along with Garland.
! Extra spoilers as to why the heck Zidane's even on the main world.
! >! Basically Garland was tasked to kill all life on the main world because everyone on his world was basically dying away and needed to move over in terms of their souls, so of these Genomes, a few were created with the main purpose of eradicating life on the main world. Kuja (the main antagonist) was one such "Angel of Death" but was deemd a failure while Zidane was considered correctly made, which pissed Kuja off, and so he left the young Zidane on the main world where he grew up blissfully unaware of his true nature and origins[hide]Actually, Kuja's motives were because Garland revealed that Kuja WASN'T a genome (like Zidane) and instead, was basically a homunculus with a very short life span (similar to that of Vivi and the Black Mages). Kuja acted out of unrelenting fear of death and basically felt that if he had to go, everyone is going down with him.
It's a great parallel to Vivi, who also goes through his fear of dying due to his short life span. Vivi got over it because he realized how much he treasured his friends and would rather have a wonderful time with them instead of drowning in the fear and doubt of the unknown.[/hide]
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[hide]Actually, Kuja's motives were because Garland revealed that Kuja WASN'T a genome (like Zidane) and instead, was basically a homunculus with a very short life span (similar to that of Vivi and the Black Mages). Kuja acted out of unrelenting fear of death and basically felt that if he had to go, everyone is going down with him.
It's a great parallel to Vivi, who also goes through his fear of dying due to his short life span. Vivi got over it because he realized how much he treasured his friends and would rather have a wonderful time with them instead of drowning in the fear and doubt of the unknown.[/hide]
! I remember that Kuja actually was a prototype Angel of Death and the first one, but it was because he was deemed a failure that Garland gave him that short lifespan. It's why Kuja has a tail like the rest of the genomes but never shows it off except when he's in Trance.
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[hide]Actually, Kuja's motives were because Garland revealed that Kuja WASN'T a genome (like Zidane) and instead, was basically a homunculus with a very short life span (similar to that of Vivi and the Black Mages). Kuja acted out of unrelenting fear of death and basically felt that if he had to go, everyone is going down with him.
It's a great parallel to Vivi, who also goes through his fear of dying due to his short life span. Vivi got over it because he realized how much he treasured his friends and would rather have a wonderful time with them instead of drowning in the fear and doubt of the unknown.[/hide]
! In Kuja's case, unlike Vivi, he originally thought himself immoral. His breakdown (which rivals Sephiroth imo for the biggest BSOD in the series) was because of having mortality suddenly thrust upon him, so, y'know, destroying absolutely everything has a kind of logic to it in that position.
! Still feel sorry for him not getting to be the final boss though. Poor Kuja, forever upstaged by someone/something else. -
@Print:
! In Kuja's case, unlike Vivi, he originally thought himself immoral. His breakdown (which rivals Sephiroth imo for the biggest BSOD in the series) was because of having mortality suddenly thrust upon him, so, y'know, destroying absolutely everything has a kind of logic to it in that position.
! Still feel sorry for him not getting to be the final boss though. Poor Kuja, forever upstaged by someone/something else.! Whoa wait what? I believe you're misremembering, my dear Print. Kuja was the final boss. I remember fighting his trance form and then he blows up stuff but then the party just appears outside, the end. There definitely wasn't a Necron or anything like that. Only Kuja.
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Kuja also has the best Ultima animation, so he has that going for him.