Random News Article Discussion II

Monkey King

China still thinks Japan is America's little bitch, and to be honest, it still kinda is.

lol.

Let's not compare a country with awkward defense pacts left over from WW2 with "I run the EU" Germany or "I still basically run my former African colonies" France. Or especially the big boss of the Commonwealth of Nations UK.

It just reeks horribly of an excuse for people in these countries to not feel as bad when their leaders do dumb things.
See: Every single British person pretending Tony Blair was brainwashed by Bush and wasn't his own unique self made shithead.

The funniest part is I've never heard Canadians expressing this viewpoint on their joint. Just the former European empires who still have their own spheres of influence and major power politics. Hmmm, what could be the difference here.

Cyan D. Funk

@Monkey:

The funniest part is I've never heard Canadians expressing this viewpoint on their joint.

Probably because Canadian nationalism runs on "WE'RE NOT THE US" (also claiming to have burned down the White House and treating their Indians better, both of which are bullshit.)

Kaiolino

Britain has always blamed other countries for their own shit.

Robby

@Cyan:

(also claiming to have burned down the White House and treating their Indians better, both of which are bullshit.)

Well, it was the British who actually did it, but they were colonies IN Canada.

So it technically WAS Canada that did it.

Just the culture and nationality has sort of shuffled around in the 200 years since. Hell, technically much of America was English at the time we declared independance.

The US of course completely downplays this and tries to pretend it never happened.

captain usopp

@Robby:

Well, it was the British who actually did it, but they were colonies IN Canada.

So it technically WAS Canada that did it.

Just the culture and nationality has sort of shuffled around in the 200 years since. Hell, technically much of America was English at the time we declared independance.

The US of course completely downplays this and tries to pretend it never happened.

:V whatever. "blame canada" eh.

Cyan D. Funk

@Robby:

Well, it was the British who actually did it, but they were colonies IN Canada.

So it technically WAS Canada that did it.

Actually no it was British troops (from Britain!) on their way to fight Napoleon in his New World holdings (they'd just fought in Spain.) Claiming that just because Canada was a British holding meant they did it is the same as saying Australia or Port Natal did it.

And I sure as hell learned about the White House getting torched in school. It's just that the war of 1812 is dull because both the US and Britain got what they wanted out of it and the politics/battles aren't nearly as interesting as the Civil War would be, so it gets a brief summary and then we move on.

Robby

Canada didn't become independant until 1867. So the fact that they had british or french soldiers at the time in 1812 is irrelevant, that's all that could be Canadian.

We invaded the landmass nowadays called Canada. We provoked response from people within that border. It counts. (Unless you want to also claim that it was British and English soldiers fighting against the British when America went for independance. We weren't Americans until we were. You count the landmass for the citizens or you don't.)

We got the war of 1812 in school. For about 5 seconds.. then moved on to focusing on the Alamo for like 6 weeks straight. Cause San Antonio.

Monkey King

Anglophone Canada viewing itself as a progressive paradise, and simultaneously being the world's biggest cheerleader of how great being part or former part of the British Empire is…. is a very strange thing.

Outerspec

Well, this is definitely a step up from celebrity boob news.

Monkey King

@Robby:

Canada didn't become independant until 1867. So the fact that they had british or french soldiers at the time in 1812 is irrelevant, that's all that could be Canadian.

But they weren't colonial forces. The forces that raided the Mid-Atlantic were straight up British Navy forces. The ones who would go in and burn the white house and all that famous shit.
The northern front is the only one that involved local proto-Canadian populations either defensively or otherwise.
It's not like the British army rampaged down from the great lakes to DC lol. Those were attacks from the sea.

The problem is honestly with Anglophone Canadian identity. They don't have much of a descisive answer to whether they should or not be considered British or post-independence…some sort of British offspring thing. The NOT AMERICA thing is about it.
They severely lack in the sort of strong regional identity that say...Texas, New England, New York area, and Quebec have. Except for that thing where Portland, Seattle and Vancouver team up and ignore the rest of their countries.
An Anglo Canadian wants to both be British and not British or something. So the claims of strictly British actions during 1812 get confused as hell.
The issue is all their areas are extensions of US areas culturally. With no center of culture power by comparison.

Take the Maritimes with their conflicted historical ties to New England, and history of loyalist in migration as well. Making them populated by people who were literally just caught outside the US in terms of belonging with New England culturally...and people very adamant about not being in the US.
And ultimately that New England character they have is not centered on anywhere within Canadian borders, the Maritimes are sparsely populated and have no major cities or close. Boston is where New England culture centers after all.

Robby

I'll concede to Zeph on anything history or geography related.

And to Ubiq on anything in politics or book history.

joekido the Second

I go in history, and politics as well

Kaiolino

The only thing I know about the War of 1812 is that Andrew Jackson kept on murderin' after the peace settlement.

Monkey King

@Kaiolino:

The only thing I know about the War of 1812 is that Andrew Jackson kept on murderin' after the peace settlement.

That was cuz down in New Orleans they didn't receive news about the end of the war until after the battle lol.

Katzztar

@Cyan:

And I sure as hell learned about the White House getting torched in school. It's just that the war of 1812 is dull because both the US and Britain got what they wanted out of it and the politics/battles aren't nearly as interesting as the Civil War would be, so it gets a brief summary and then we move on.

YEah sounds like what went on at my high school. War of 1812 was brief, covered it in day and in a class that was only 1 hr long, it was barely covered vs the many weeks given to the Civil War and Texas Rebellion.
@Robby:

We got the war of 1812 in school. For about 5 seconds.. then moved on to focusing on the Alamo for like 6 weeks straight. Cause San Antonio.

The Battle of the Alamo got a lot of coverage in my school but we covered more than San Antonio, we also covered Gonzales (though so barely I only remember the name), Goliad and San Jancinto. BUT it still wasn't 6 weeks. IF it was I'd remember other battles of that war…

@Monkey:

That was cuz down in New Orleans they didn't receive news about the end of the war until after the battle lol.

Was it a week or a month later… I can't remember which

Cyan D. Funk

The Battle of New Orleans kept going until January (the Treaty of Ghent was signed Christmas Eve) because a) the British didn't know the war ended and would not let up, and b) Andrew Jackson was a tenacious motherfucker. After Jackson threw them out of the city, the British went on to try and take out some forts before they finally got word that the war was over.

Ubiq

The War of 1812 was an odd duck to be sure. The Treaty of Ghent basically said "Hell, let's just go back to the way things were"; the territory occupied by the British in the Northwest Territories was returned to the United States and the occupied portions of Canada were returned to the British. So the US failed in its goal to annex Canada. On the other hand, the War of 1812 utterly destroyed the military power of the indigenous tribes in the Northwest Territory, resulted in an end to the impressment policies that has roused public sentiment against the British, and solidified the standing of the United States as an independent world power.

I don't know if any nation has ever gained as much from a draw as the United States did from the War of 1812.

Robby

Random news articles of 200 years ago.

Outerspec

You can't discuss anything less than 200 years old, but again, still a step up from celebrity boob news.

joekido the Second

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/09/02/king-saudi-arabia-warns-isis-could-reach-us-2-months yes I know Fox is not a good source, I brought this up because I find this laughable. The ISIS hardly even captured the rest of Syria and Iraq, there is no way they would conquer Europe in one month and United States in two

Monkey King

@joekido:

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/09/02/king-saudi-arabia-warns-isis-could-reach-us-2-months yes I know Fox is not a good source, I brought this up because I find this laughable. The ISIS hardly even captured the rest of Syria and Iraq, there is no way they would conquer Europe in one month and United States in two

I think he means like terrorist attacks. Not conquest.
Though I think you're right in that they seem focused on conquering the rest of Syria and Iraq.

Davy Jones

The IS has just decapitated an American journalist held as hostage.

We're coming for you radical scum.

taboo

Literally had a whole class year dedicated to Texas history in high school

I think our history is really interesting and we preserved some of it pretty well, so I guess it's worth a year

-she said, just remembering that her entire undergrad was spent on Sam Houston's ranch

Monkey King

We've already been bombing them. In fact that's kind of sort of why they were waving that guy around and then killed him. STOP BOMBING OR MAN DIE.

The question is, would we bomb them also in Syria and not just Iraq.
It's a strange awkward thing in Syria. A war now mainly dominated by two evils. The Assad Regime, and ISIS. Both are absolute barbarian forces.
Maybe it's best to let ISIS and Assad fight.
As bad as ISIS rule is in eastern Syria….if it came back into Assad hands it might result in obscene levels of violence rather than the puritanical occupation it's in now.
I don't think there's really any minorities in east Syria at threaat of wipeout like in north Iraq.

Long term ISIS must die, but really if they can chew up Assad before then that would be good too.

Wagomu

As a born Californian, raised Pennsylvanian, all I know about the Alamo is that it doesn't have a basement.

taboo

@Wagomu:

As a born Californian, raised Pennsylvanian, all I know about the Alamo is that it doesn't have a basement.

it does have 200 year old graffiti carved into the walls :3

Monkey King

Reminder as well that Assad helped ISIS to grow by deliberately avoiding targeting them among all the rebel factions, because them coming into greater power would be his propaganda about all rebels coming true. Now his little monster is out of control.

The man is a regional danger as much as ISIS in that he helped ISIS become the beast it has this year.

joekido the Second

The war of 1812 could have been avoided if USA does not trade with France because Britian is fighting Napoleon. My school textbook says a little about the war of 1812 but goes deep with the Almo

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Monkey:

Reminder as well that Assad helped ISIS to grow by deliberately avoiding targeting them among all the rebel factions, because them coming into greater power would be his propaganda about all rebels coming true. Now his little monster is out of control.

The man is a regional danger as much as ISIS in that he helped ISIS become the beast it has this year.

Assad: duuurrrrrrr I think think the ISIS will handle the Rebel scam, ain't I brilliant? Everybody?

Davy Jones

@Monkey:

We've already been bombing them. In fact that's kind of sort of why they were waving that guy around and then killed him. STOP BOMBING OR MAN DIE.

The question is, would we bomb them also in Syria and not just Iraq.
It's a strange awkward thing in Syria. A war now mainly dominated by two evils. The Assad Regime, and ISIS. Both are absolute barbarian forces.
Maybe it's best to let ISIS and Assad fight.
As bad as ISIS rule is in eastern Syria….if it came back into Assad hands it might result in obscene levels of violence rather than the puritanical occupation it's in now.
I don't think there's really any minorities in east Syria at threaat of wipeout like in north Iraq.

Long term ISIS must die, but really if they can chew up Assad before then that would be good too.

Umm….Syrian Kurds?

SpaceCowboy

I think Monkey King was talking about something in a smaller scale like the Yazidis or the Druzez.
Kurds are Kurds. I don´t think the fact that they live in Syria or Iraq will stop them from protecting those territories.

Monkey King

@Davy:

Umm….Syrian Kurds?

Are not a religious minority.

Outerspec

CVS Health is banning cigarettes from its stores a month earlier than expected. Good for them. They'll be losing millions of dollars of revenue but it's a sound socially conscious decision and I'll continue to support and shop at their stores for many years to come. Personally, I would have continued to shop at their stores without the ban but maybe they've gained a few customers because of it.

Purple Hermit

@Outerspec:

CVS Health is banning cigarettes from its stores a month earlier than expected. Good for them. They'll be losing millions of dollars of revenue but it's a sound socially conscious decision and I'll continue to support and shop at their stores for many years to come. Personally, I would have continued to shop at their stores without the ban but maybe they've gained a few customers because of it.

I don't know much about gaining a few customers, but it definitely is a _great_ thing to do regardless even if it cuts out some money.

Outerspec

I just remember walking by a CVS near my workplace one day and seeing some organization protesting, specifically demanding that CVS ban cigarettes from their stores. This was of course before CVS publicly, and maybe even privately, decided to go that route.

I don't know how serious those protestors were to their cause but maybe some of them refused to shop at the store until their demands were met. I'm speaking of people like that who might now start shopping at CVS. Though, the difference will be so little it doesn't really matter.

Regardless, it is indeed a great thing.

Galaxy 9000

That's really great. Always wondered why a pharmacy would sell Tobacco products…

Green_vs_Red

@Galaxy:

That's really great. Always wondered why a pharmacy would sell Tobacco products…

A pharmacy can sell whatever wants from medicine, to cheap kids toys, and to tobacco and alcohol.

Galaxy 9000

I know that they sell things other than medicine, but it doesn't change my statement. An establishment that "promotes" good health should have never had the product to begin with (it's all a massive contradiction.)

In any case, it's good that the crap is off the shelves, and other pharmacies "hopefully" will follow suit in the near future.

Purple Hermit

@Galaxy:

I know that they sell things other than medicine, but it doesn't change my statement. An establishment that "promotes" good health should have never had the product to begin with (it's all a massive contradiction.)

In any case, it's good that the crap is off the shelves, and other pharmacies "hopefully" will follow suit in the near future.

Arguably then you get into a lot of dilemmas for things that aren't "good health". Why does CVS have a candy bar in front of its registers when junk food is a pitfall for diabetes and obesity in today's current culture?

That said, yes, tobacco and kid candy are not nearly in the same league in terms of detriments to health

Green_vs_Red

@Purple:

Arguably then you get into a lot of dilemmas for things that aren't "good health". Why does CVS have a candy bar in front of its registers when junk food is a pitfall for diabetes and obesity in today's current culture?

Do you want to try the new Cappucino Lays for only $2.49…...No I do not.

Purple Hermit

@Green_vs_Red:

Do you want to try the new Cappucino Lays for only $2.49…...No I do not.

Well there's one thing on par with tobacco as haphazard for your wellbeing

joekido the Second

Sorry to cut the tobacco talk short, I found a good article that is about Canadian view on people disrespect on our president that brings up good points but that does not change my mind about him http://kstreet607.com/2013/06/21/a-canadians-view-on-our-disrespect-of-president-obamas-presidency/

Satsuki

Interesting chart on the political views of US Religions:
http://io9.com/the-political-views-of-u-s-religions-in-a-single-graph-1629480525?fb_action_ids=10202680597682678&fb_action_types=og.likes

And in other news, that Icelandic volcano erupted:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/icelandic-volcano-erupts-1409685159-slideshow/

Monkey King

@Satsuki:

Interesting chart on the political views of US Religions:
http://io9.com/the-political-views-of-u-s-religions-in-a-single-graph-1629480525?fb_action_ids=10202680597682678&fb_action_types=og.likes

While several Protestant groups bisect by regions, it would be interesting to break up the Catholic circle into regions.
The Midwestern Catholics (mostly I think…German) are really quite different in their leanings than Northeastern and Hispanic Catholics.

Satsuki

I couldn't find Episcopalians on there either. What, they don't count?

Monkey King

@Satsuki:

I couldn't find Episcopalians on there either. What, they don't count?

Episcopalians are hilarious for one very good reason.
It's because they're just Anglicans. But they changed the name way back after the revolution because being the "Church of England" wasn't so in fashion sounding anymore.
This was the preferred denomination in the South lowlands back a long time ago. Before Baptists and Evangelicals took over.
Same story for the highlands and overlands where Presbyterians used to dominate.
Weren't a lot of Anglicans in the old North, we had all the kooky Protestants like Quakers, Puritans, and of course the Amish.

TLDR: I think on that chart that Episcopalians = Anglicans.

Ubiq

That needs a slight adjustment.

!

There we go.

Wagomu

This post is deleted!

Purple Hermit

@Ubiq:

That needs a slight adjustment.

! http://i.imgur.com/7LMS5lj.png

There we go.

Millenial Dispensationalism for dummies, please?

Pochipochi

@Purple:

Millenial Dispensationalism for dummies, please?

"The rapture is coming" with wacky Israel politics

Ubiq

@Purple:

Millenial Dispensationalism for dummies, please?

It's sometimes called Dispensation Millenialism as well. It's not an organized denomination either so much as it's a belief system held by a lot of American evangelicals.

Millenialists believe that there will be a thousand year period where Jesus rules the Earth directly; there are two major schools of thought on this. Some (premillenialists) say that it'll happen before the Apocalypse and others (postmillenialists) say after.

Dispensationalists believe that God interacts with humanity in phases or dispensations (including the period of Jesus' Earthly reign mentioned previously; Dispenationalism started as an offshoot of PreMillenialism), that Israel as a nation and a Church are distinctive entities, and that the Second Coming of Jesus will result in the souls of the faithful going straight to Heaven in The Rapture. Then there will be a seven year period of darkness and chaos for everybody else where the Antichrist rules the world. Then Jesus shows back up, kicks him in the crotch, and then it's a thousand years of peace and harmony. Well, except for everybody that wasn't raptured seven years earlier since those people are now in Hell.

So, according to Millenial Dispenationalists, Israel as a political entity needs to exist for the Rapture to occur (where politics are concerned, this means that the sole objective of the United States is to guarantee that continued existence), but Jews aren't really God's chosen people so they're basically damned along everybody else that isn't saved. They're also pretty much of the opinion that the Rapture is right on the verge of happening at any given moment.