David Goyer is nowhere near awesome a writer as he thinks he is, and warner for that matter. Having him being the guy that is responsible for the entire cinematic universe of dc now is not such a good idea imo.
DC Movies Thread - Shazam saves the day
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- David Goyer, writer of Man of Steel and its future sequel, feels that the Hulk is a male power fantasy and that She-Hulk exists purely because she is a man's porn fantasy, "because only the Hulk can fuck her".
I thought he was replaced by Argo's writer and was demoted to some useless credit?
But yeah. Goyer is a fucking idiot.
And also seems to have something against green people.
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Maritan manhunter is a stupid character? Sure. But Mr. Goyer should take a look at a few marvel pictures. MMH could very well work if you dont try to play it too straight. Kinda like Marvel treats their more "Goofy" characters.
I gotta agree with what he said about the Hulk though.
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Remind me to send Goyer a punch to the balls in the mail.
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Now I know why batman is so sad. First he finds out goyer writes the script, then he sees the dumb title.
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And also seems to have something against green people.
This is wonderful; I didn't even pick up on that at all.
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They should've just called it World's Finest~
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Oh, and of course.
Always gives me a nice chuckle.
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Not too far removed from movie Superman, actually.
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Nooooo! I was forced to kill someone to save three human lives, even though I established my disdain for killing people in a grand total of 0% of the movie! I'm going to cry anyway!
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Oh, maybe I shouldn't have spoiled that.
If you haven't seen Man of Steel yet, do yourself a favor: Don't watch it.
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For all I joke about Man of Steel, I did enjoy it. It just didn't meet my expectations.
And everything I'm hearing about Superman v Batman makes me even more worried. Which I think we have all established.
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I liked the movie and complaning about the killing thingy seems so dumb especially this late into it.
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It's fine. If they wanted to make a dark Superman or a situation where Superman HAD to kill anyone, I don't mind. I like Superman, but I'm not that much of a Superman fan to care. Plus, that's what adaptation is for: Exploration.
It's just… There was no build up for that emotion from Superman within the story of the movie. My issue isn't the 'faithful adaptation', it's the writing in general. Buh... I won't harp on anyone for liking it though.
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If you haven't seen Man of Steel yet, do yourself a favor: Don't watch it.
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I've sat through Steel, Superman 3, Superman 4, Batman & Robin.
Can't be anymore of a waste of time than those 4 movies.
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It's fine. If they wanted to make a dark Superman or a situation where Superman HAD to kill anyone, I don't mind. I like Superman, but I'm not that much of a Superman fan to care. Plus, that's what adaptation is for: Exploration.
It's just… There was no build up for that emotion from Superman within the story of the movie. My issue isn't the 'faithful adaptation', it's the writing in general. Buh… I won't harp on anyone for liking it though.
Sad day when someone needs buildup to have an emotional response to killing the first person they have ever killed.
Doesn't matter if its superman, Lara Craft, or your neighbor down the street, killing your first person should have an effect on the person. No need to build up any moral grounds for that. Stories/movies where someone first kill doens't have any reaction are more unrealistic.
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I've sat through Steel, Superman 3, Superman 4, Batman & Robin.
Can't be anymore of a waste of time than those 4 movies.
I've only seen half them, and the ones I have seen, I can't speak praise for.
Sad day when someone needs buildup to have an emotional response to killing the first person they have ever killed.
Doesn't matter if its superman, Lara Craft, or your neighbor down the street, killing your first person should have an effect on the person. No need to build up any moral grounds for that. Stories/movies where someone first kill doens't have any reaction are more unrealistic.
Well considering he goes flying and crashing into thousands of buildings, risking thousands of lives and probably killing more in the process. How many might have died when those buildings were destroyed during the fight between Clark and Zod? Hundred? Thousand? In fact, Zack Synder stated that 5000 people died during their face off.
But then we break Zod's neck, and THAT? Nope. That's the one that broke the camels back. Tears.
Like I get what you mean and totally agree with you. And I get the fact that, even after being forced to kill 5000 people during their fight, Clark may have some sort of hope that Zod could redeem himself in future. But for him to be totally, "Yeah! Sure! 5000 people died. Gotta keep giving the fight.", but remorseful only when forced to kill Zod?
Basically, what I should have said is, there's no moment that establishes that Clark would rather hope that someone could redeem themselves in the future. There's no moment that establishes, "Bad people do bad things, but just because I have almighty powers, doesn't give me the right to kill them."
Unless, of course, Clark felt remorseful for killing those 5000 people, in which he was fully capable of send the fight anywhere else if it really didn't bother him to endanger human lives like that.
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It's fine. If they wanted to make a dark Superman or a situation where Superman HAD to kill anyone, I don't mind. I like Superman, but I'm not that much of a Superman fan to care. Plus, that's what adaptation is for: Exploration.
It's just… There was no build up for that emotion from Superman within the story of the movie. My issue isn't the 'faithful adaptation', it's the writing in general. Buh... I won't harp on anyone for liking it though.
The emotion wasn't for the act of killing, it was for condemning his people to a permanent and absolute death. Zod represented a hope for his people, but the means did not justify the end in Supes eyes, so he had to stop him. Even then, Zod was still the only one of his kind left, so of course there would be some emotion in killing him.
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@Nex:
The emotion wasn't for the act of killing, it was for condemning his people to a permanent and absolute death. Zod represented a hope for his people, but the means did not justify the end in Supes eyes, so he had to stop him. Even then, Zod was still the only one of his kind left, so of course there would be some emotion in killing him.
Actually, I did not think of this. Touché.
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The worst part of the whole thing isn't Superman killing somone (which would have been fine if it were actually built up and explored and not just shoehorned in out of nowhere…and if he hadn't already killed thousands of people in his fight with Zod), it's how completely atonal the ending is. We switch from grimdark to stupid Donnerisms in a drop of the hat and that shows more than anything that the writers didn't give a shit about the character or the story.
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Well, this is a good excuse as any to post this:
http://blip.tv/foldablehuman/s4e2-man-of-steel-revisited-6876467
Not a review, not a "Superman MUST be so and so" rant, just a breakdown of MoS from a structural perspective. Also, people should watch Foldable human, he's pretty great.
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@Nex:
The emotion wasn't for the act of killing, it was for condemning his people to a permanent and absolute death. Zod represented a hope for his people, but the means did not justify the end in Supes eyes, so he had to stop him. Even then, Zod was still the only one of his kind left, so of course there would be some emotion in killing him.
And that sounds right to you? He doesn't give a damn that he accidentally killed all those people, his adopted race but he gets all weepy when he has to kill this one genocidal maniac? He had no problem ass-ramming all of metropolis but he sees three people and now it's gone too far? There was one point in the fight where they went to fucking space and they still somehow crashed back into Metropolis to kill a couple of hundred more people?
A Superman that cares nothing about the people and is more interested in his existential wangst is not Superman, that moment was a poorly developed, weak climax in a poorly written film.
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I think most of the problems with Superman fighting in he city could have been excused by a short 10 second dialog/scene.
Superman looks around and sees the destruction they're causing
Superman says to himself: "I've got to take this fight somewhere else. People are in danger here."
starts to fly off trying to bait Zod
Zod sees what he is trying to do
Zod yells out loud: "Kal-El! If you try to leave this city I will burn it to the ground and kill all these humans you care so much for!"
Superman sees he has no choice turns around and continues the fight
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Did I completely misinterpret that scene from the movie where he breaks Zod's neck?
Since we don't see the little family safe and sound after he killed the villain (IIRC), I was assuming that what made Superman cry was that he had to sacrifice the lives of that family (and all the others who must have died during their battle) in order to end Zod. It's a little ridiculous to be harsh on the guy for accidentally killing bystanders when thousands were already being killed by the gigantic terraforming machine and the aliens that he was trying so desperately to stop. But this family was no accidental kill, they were deliberately sacrificed in order to stop Zod.
Like, I thought that Zod was presenting him with a tough choice: "You've got me in a headlock, and are prepared to break my neck and kill me. To spite you, I will activate my laser vision right next to these innocent bystanders. If you really intend to kill me, then you will have to make my laser cut them in half as well. But if you don't kill me now, then I will never stop fighting you."
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…The family survived. Probably with convection burns, but they survived.
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@Cyan:
…The family survived. Probably with convection burns, but they survived.
Well, then, yeah I must have misinterpreted the scene. I seriously thought that we didn't see them after, only a crying Supes, and assumed we wouldn't be shown, you know, mangled and burnt corpses for a family super hero movie.
Just double checked, there's definitely no commotion about the family right after he kills Zod. Also, he breaks his neck by twisting his head to the right, which is exactly where the family was standing. He is even shown kind of looking up and away from Zod, then screaming out in pain. Like he had just seen the bodies of the family that he had just sentenced to death or something.
I mean, it's dead quiet in that room after he kills Zod. I don't think the family which was screaming just seconds earlier would have gotten so silent unless, as I've said, they really were killed.
So I'm not sure that you're right, there, Cyan.
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Ja, the family survived. You can see the family safely huddled up in the corner right after Superman snaps Zod's neck.
Video:
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LOL welp.
Yeah, that's a silly scene, then.
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Relevant? Probably not but still fun.
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Leaked plans from Nikki Finke:
May 2016 – Batman v Superman
July 2016 – Shazam
Xmas 2016 – Sandman
May 2017 – Justice League
July 2017 – Wonder Woman
Xmas 2017 – Flash and Green Lantern team-up
May 2018 – Man Of Steel 2 -
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Wasn't Batman vs Superman SUPPOSED to be MOS2?
At least we finally got a WW title in the works I guess…
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Wait, what the fuck? One month apart from JL? The fuck?
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@TLC:
Wasn't Batman vs Superman SUPPOSED to be MOS2?
At least we finally got a WW title in the works I guess…
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Wait, what the fuck? One month apart from JL? The fuck?
Well Ant man is scheduled 1 month after Avengers 2 at the moment.
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Marvel studios releases two films a year? We'll do THREE a year!!!
Oversaturation, whats that word mean?
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OMG, poor Wonder Woman. A movie RIGHT after the big team up? For fuck's sake. It should be the other way around.
@Daz:
Oversaturation, whats that word mean?
Oversaturation? More like overcompensation.
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If that list is legit.
LOL!
At least that's an acknowledgement that this upcoming Batman vs. Superman movie isn't really a sequel to Superman but moreso a desperate setup for the JL movie.
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May 2017 – Justice League
July 2017 – Wonder Woman -
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The Neil Gaiman one.
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Well, if Sandman is anything like the comics, it won't mesh with the comic universe anyway, and be it owns thing anyway, so that's fine. (not that theres really any chance in hell of it being any good unless Gaiman is heavily involved.)
But SHAZAM before Wonder Woman? Really?
And Flash/Green Lantern team up? That just… makes no sense thematically. And where the hell is Aquaman?
Also, hard time believing they can manage 7 movies in 2 years when they've barely managed that many in the last decade (and thats counting Catwoman, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen , Green Lantern and Jonah Hex)
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Gaiman will be producing the Sandman movie. But so will David Goyer.
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Gaiman will be producing the Sandman movie. But so will David Goyer.
. . . . . . . waaaaaaaaahhhhhhh . . . . . . . . .
What will he do to Death? My beautiful Death . . . . . .
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And Flash/Green Lantern team up? That just… makes no sense thematically. And where the hell is Aquaman?
They didn't want to give Flash and Green Lantern their own movies because:
1. They're afraid those 2 couldn't carry their own solo movies? But that doesn't make sense because surely they have more name recognition than Shazam. The 2011 Green Lantern might be playing a role in the decision.
Of course name recognition doesn't automatically = huge ticket sales (exceptions allowed) but they sure are taking a big leap with Shazam but what about The Flash!? The Flash is cool! Everyone loves The Flash!
2. They don't believe they need a solo movie to introduce and build up their characters in the DC universe. All of their development will be handled in the JL movie.
3. Time constraint? But that wouldn't make sense because look at all the other movies they're throwing out in 2 years.
4. 2 superheroes in 1 movie = more EXPLOSIONS!!!
It's #4.
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Well, I suppose there is the prospect of having Shazam appeal to a much younger audience… but I don't see really how Shazam fits into this grittier vision of a movie comic book universe DC has going. And yes, also that his name recognition is far, far lower than anything that comes after except Sandman.
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Funny thing is that Captain Marvel and his Amazing Friends and Family were fuckin' huge way back in the day. Like super, "everyone is going to rip off our ideas without credit in the future", huge.
Elvis even based his whole look off of Marvel Jr.
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So I'm hearing confirmation of Aquaman in Dawn of Justice…
Granted I won't believe it until I see something on Superherohype, but still…
EDIT: http://www.superherohype.com/news/305285-is-jason-momoa-aquaman-in-zack-snyders-justice-league
And there's the report on Superherohype….
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Why don't they call the movie Justice League?
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sigh Because they don't want to look like they're automatically aping Marvel's The Avengers right away to save themselves some dignity, but it's a total fail.
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The Flash!? The Flash is cool! Everyone loves The Flash!
Even the people who have presumably grew up on Batman and/or Superman and probably much more preferable to those two specifically.
Hence all the Superman movies and all the Batman movies and cartoons.
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Everyone is gonna show up for a split second cameo in Bats vs Supes to build up for the Justice League.
Then when the Justice League movie shows up, everyone will once again get a split second cameo while Batman and Superman are the focus of the entire 2-3 hours of the movie.
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