Rape is also a common real life scene. I still don't want it in my One Piece.
I'm sorry but are you seriously comparing that bra scene to rape, Glib? I mean come on!
Rape is also a common real life scene. I still don't want it in my One Piece.
I'm sorry but are you seriously comparing that bra scene to rape, Glib? I mean come on!
@The:
The thing is, there's a thread specifically for people like yourself to harp on how sexist you think Oda is. Why are you harping in there, and instead, are harping in here? lol
There's a reason that thread was created: so this type of talk doesn't seep into everything a part of this forum.
Because this is the chapter it happened in. And I was relaying my honest reaction. I'm not going to fucking ghettoize my thoughts because it might make you shit your pants with knee-jerk white knighting Oda.
Those ships with animal heads by the harbour are probably kaido's men to coincide with the 'Kaido of the hundred beasts' theme, but it's not uncommon for pirate ships in One Pieace to have animal heads . . . infact just about most if not all of the have animals depicted on their ships somewhere…strawhats included
It's fine if he did the actions, the mistake from Oda was showing the females reveling in the assault and enjoying it. Showing they are nothing but worthless objects to be used by Senior Pink. If he ripped the Bra off and she was upset about it there would be no problem.
There's nothing wrong with the women being happy, and going goo-goo over it, especially not when Senor Pink is modeled after a rock star, and they are modeled after devout and zealous groupies who worship the ground he walks on. SO MANY works of fiction have done the very same thing with rock star and groupie mechanics, it isn't even funny how much it has been done (and how much more…graphic it can get in those works than in One Piece).
Senor Pink is a reverse Jesus.
I'm sorry but are you seriously comparing that bra scene to rape, Glib? I mean come on!
No, you misunderstand. I'm saying that just because it makes sense doesn't mean it tonally jibes with the series in general.
But it's not framed that way. It's framed as a cheap gag
Oh, definitely. If Oda wanted to do the groupie thing, he wouldn't even need to do the bra pulling off panel and just go to the hardboiled comment after Pink's "cool" line. Or better yet, have the girl pull off her own top and throw it at the guy, like it usually happens in real life.
I'm sorry but are you seriously comparing that bra scene to rape, Glib? I mean come on!
No he wasn't. The scene as I said earlier is pretty close to having a girls panties torn off without consent, which is basically sexual objectification. No body said Oda was sexist in this thread, we have only talked about how we were uncomfortable with this scene.
On a bright side, it's always great to see how Franky deals with the female villains. Unlike Zoro and Sanji, despite being one of the main guys, Franky simply doesn't give a fuck about his enemies gender. First he exploded the hell out of Baby 5 without giving a crap and now he coup-de-vent'd those groupies just like he did with the small fry shooters.
Rape is also a common real life scene. I still don't want it in my One Piece.
yeah, YOUR OnePiece?
It's Oda's OnePiece, not yours or mine.
Not having rape in OP doesn't erase the concept of rape in real life.
I don't really like the scene either, but part of this forum's fanbase bring things tooooooooooooooooo far.
I think that if many of you spent your enthusiasm and effort for a right cause in the real life instead of blabbering about sexism in a manga forum, this planet would be a better place.
It's fine if he did the actions, the mistake from Oda was showing the females reveling in the assault and enjoying it. Showing they are nothing but worthless objects to be used by Senior Pink. If he ripped the Bra off and she was upset about it there would be no problem.
The thing is she is upset and afraid and tries to hide herself - obviously doesn't feel comfortable, and it can't be said that she consented to the action. Yet next she still is shown to cheer for her assaulter. That just rubs me wrong way.
I am kind of interested in Pink's presumed swim swim fruit. It's kind of ironic that devil fruit users can't swim in water, but this particular devil fruit's user can apparently "swim" in anything.
And the funniest thing of all?
You guys care more about the fact that girls bra was torn off, than about the fact that Franky just blasted them all right into that building.
Clearly, physical violence and no care about collateral damage is a-okay.
No, you misunderstand. I'm saying that just because it makes sense doesn't mean it tonally jibes with the series in general.
I see. My bad on that part then.
The way I see it you can either like Oda's approach towards a more realistic environment or hate it. Personally I don't mind since I do enjoy parallels to real life. And because I also know that only because Oda implemented such a scene doesn't mean that he himself thinks that way.
yeah, YOUR OnePiece?
It's Oda's OnePiece, not yours or mine.
Not having rape in OP doesn't erase the concept of rape in real life.I don't really like the scene either, but part of this forum's fanbase bring things tooooooooooooooooo far.
I think that if many of you spent your enthusiasm and effort for a right cause in the real life instead of blabbering about sexism in a manga forum, this planet would be a better place.
I see. So I can't criticize Oda at all because, after all, it's his manga.
And you can say that about literally anything. If we all dropped the series right now and focused on activism instead, the world would be a better place. But this is what we happen to be made passionate by.
The thing is she is upset and afraid and tries to hide herself - obviously doesn't feel comfortable, and it can't be said that she consented to the action. Yet next she still is shown to cheer for her assaulter. That just rubs me wrong way.
Well yeah the part where she enjoys the assault is the difficult part to read.
Judging by the specification of Pica's group, as well as his (presumed) location at the palace, it's looking more and more like Zoro Vs. Pica.
I'm not Zoro's biggest fan but I really want to see that scrap.
I see. My bad on that part then.
The way I see it you can either like Oda's approach towards a more realistic environment or hate it. Personally I don't mind since I do enjoy parallels to real life. And because I also know that only because Oda implemented such a scene doesn't mean that he himself thinks that way.
Of course he doesn't think that way. If Oda had Spandam stick his finger in Robin's mouth to humiliate her or something, nobody would think that's what Oda thought would be correct to do. But it would still be a terrible scene because… wtf, that's not One Piece.
Knew I was right to take my popcorn to this thread. Totally worth it :D
And the funniest thing of all?
You guys care more about the fact that girls bra was torn off, than about the fact that Franky just blasted them all right into that building.
Clearly, physical violence and no care about collateral damage is a-okay.
We haven't seen what happened yet. Senior Pink was unharmed though he has a DF. Oda usually doesn't injure or hurt groupies or bystanders. We would have to wait for next chapter to decide.
And the funniest thing of all?
You guys care more about the fact that girls bra was torn off, than about the fact that Franky just blasted them all right into that building.
Clearly, physical violence and no care about collateral damage is a-okay.
Yeah, because Franky is their enemy (they are supposedly part of Pinks group), it's what enemies are suppose to do - however those girls and senor Pink are on the same side. Think how Luffy reacts where someone mistreats their own friends.
No he wasn't. The scene as I said earlier is pretty close to having a girls panties torn off without consent, which is basically sexual objectification. No body said Oda was sexist in this thread, we have only talked about how we were uncomfortable with this scene.
The sexist brigade are most likely on their way though. If you listen closely you can even hear that vengeful whispering…
I would've been more worried if the girl did react with discontent since that would've meant that all of what's happening with Senor Pink is something she's being forced to do. But her actually enjoying that kind of treatment, and also actively being told by Senor Pink to go and get some younger men, makes me believe that it's not as bad as you're trying to make it look like.
We haven't seen what happened yet. Senior Pink was unharmed though he has a DF. Oda usually doesn't injure or hurt groupies or bystanders. We would have to wait for next chapter to decide.
Doesn't change the fact that Franky just blasted them to all hell, guy and girl alike lol
The sexist brigade are most likely on their way though. If you listen closely you can even hear that vengeful whispering…
I would've been more worried if the girl did react with discontent since that would've meant that all of what's happening with Senor Pink is something she's being forced to do. But her actually enjoying that kind of treatment, and also actively being told by Senor Pink to go and get some younger men, makes me believe that it's not as bad as you're trying to make it look like.
That'd make sense if she were depicted as being coy or appreciative about it, but she was clutching her bare boobs in embarrassment.
Yeah, because Franky is their, it's what enemies are suppose to do - however those girls and senor Pink are on the same side. Think how Luffy reacts where someone mistreats their own friends.
By that logic, let's say I have a fight with a guy in a bar.
Would it be totaly okay for me to punch his girlfriend?
The sexist brigade are most likely on their way though. If you listen closely you can even hear that vengeful whispering…
I would've been more worried if the girl did react with discontent since that would've meant that all of what's happening with Senor Pink is something she's being forced to do. But her actually enjoying that kind of treatment, and also actively being told by Senor Pink to go and get some younger men, makes me believe that it's not as bad as you're trying to make it look like.
I'm not trying to make it look like anything. It was uncomfortable to me and I stated the reasons why. It shows objectification for the girl and that she enjoyed being treated in a way that would constitute sexual assault and jail time if you did it in real life. I just personally don't like that.
Yes I can understand your opinion that this is his personality and he didn't mean anything by it but the girl enjoying the treatment was where I didn't enjoy the scene.
Not enjoying a scene is an attack on Oda's character and we all really think he's a vile misogynist, which is why I'm downloading Musou 2 right now
Doesn't change the fact that Franky just blasted them to all hell, guy and girl alike lol
If Franky ends up seriously injuring the girls who were probably just adoring the Royal family then that is not good either. Same if when he saw Baby 5 and Buffalo and they were just innocent people and he blasted them straight away and they were seriously injured.
Oda doesn't usually let innocent people get seriously injured. I doubt the girls were injured in the air blast. If they were then I wouldn't like it as well because it shows Franky can impulsively injure civilians.
We haven't seen what happened yet. Senior Pink was unharmed though he has a DF. Oda usually doesn't injure or hurt groupies or bystanders. We would have to wait for next chapter to decide.
We see that soldiers standing beside the girls in earlier panels are blasted away…
Also, this is a attack that knocked down Fukoro, or whatever the CP9 guy was called. I'm pretty sure those soldiers and those girls have at least many, many, broken bones.
By that logic, let's say I have a fight with a guy in a bar.
Would it be totaly okay for me to punch his girlfriend?
that's clearly not the situation - there is a bunch of people - who are also a women - standing next to enemy in the place, where fight is supposed to take place - my logic would be that they are part of fighting corpse - if not they should clear the way long time ago.
I'm not trying to make it look like anything. It was uncomfortable to me and I stated the reasons why. It shows objectification for the girl and that she enjoyed being treated in a way that would constitute sexual assault and jail time if you did it in real life. I just personally don't like that.
Yes I can understand your opinion that this is his personality and he didn't mean anything by it but the girl enjoying the treatment was where I didn't enjoy the scene.
She wasn't objectified whatsoever. Pink took her top to wipe his mouth and then told the girls to go get a younger man.
Not preying upon them when they're so obviously at his whim is pretty much the absolute opposite of objectifying.
Of course he doesn't think that way. If Oda had Spandam stick his finger in Robin's mouth to humiliate her or something, nobody would think that's what Oda thought would be correct to do. But it would still be a terrible scene because… wtf, that's not One Piece.
It shouldn't come as much as a surprise though. When we were shown glimpses of Dressrosa, we saw both Senor Pink and Doffy being surrounded by women. And nothing at that time was hinting at those girls being anything other than a pimp's entourage (to make use of Silver's eloquent choice of words). Those women are worshiping Senor Pink for some unknown reason and it makes sense in that particular context. Oda might simply be going for a littler more realistic situation with Dressrosa. And I think it works. It suits Doffy and the arc as a whole pretty well. Makes them look like real antagonists if you want.
I see. So I can't criticize Oda at all because, after all, it's his manga.
And you can say that about literally anything. If we all dropped the series right now and focused on activism instead, the world would be a better place. But this is what we happen to be made passionate by.
You can criticize Oda how much you want, but he won't be here to reply to you about his decision, so it's just US assuming that a guy we know only through his work is "something".
Characters do not ALWAYS reflect the author's inclination, political, sexual, economical or whatever.
We would like to know Oda better, but we don't.
Hell, Oda could be favourable to Death Sentence and think it wouldn't work in OP, so he doesn't kill anyone…
Assuming assuming assuming, we can't do anything else, and assuming is quite pointless imho.
Being passionate shouldn't even transfer to idolize a pubblic persona in the way we want him to be.
Jump cover.
At the last page, it looks as if Usopp(174cm) is taller than Robin(188cm) if he stands straight. pfffft..
Nope it was POV only,
in that last page, Robin is standing wither her back to the crates, Usopp is standing a short pace away from the crates -as if he's in front of Robin- and nearer to the reader, therefor he looks bigger.
If Franky ends up seriously injuring the girls who were probably just adoring the Royal family then that is not good either. Same if when he saw Baby 5 and Buffalo and they were just innocent people and he blasted them straight away and they were seriously injured.
Oda doesn't usually let innocent people get seriously injured. I doubt the girls were injured in the air blast. If they were then I wouldn't like it as well because it shows Franky can impulsively injure civilians.
Franky is in the middle of a situation where hundreds of people are turned into toys and enslaved, as well as dwarves.
He's on a limited time schedule to destroy the factory and rescue all those innocents being oppressed.
He doesn't really have time to figure out who's who, especially when they're all directly in front of the toy house that he's been told is being guarded.
You can criticize Oda how much you want, but he won't be here to reply to you about his decision, so it's just US assuming that a guy we know only through his work is "something".
Characters do not ALWAYS reflect the author's inclination, political, sexual, economical or whatever.
We would like to know Oda better, but we don't.
Hell, Oda could be favourable to Death Sentence and think it wouldn't work in OP, so he doesn't kill anyone…
Assuming assuming assuming, we can't do anything else, and assuming is quite pointless imho.Being passionate shouldn't even transfer to idolize a pubblic persona in the way we want him to be.
Then you're on MY side.
Saying a scene makes us feel uncomfortable != Saying Oda is a vile misogynist pig who deserves to burn.
Stop straw-manning those of us the scene rubbed the wrong way. It's not like there are only two possible extremes here. Sure, there's room for disagreement and debate, but it helps nobody when ridiculous extremes are automatically assumed. If we really hated Oda and One Piece, we wouldn't be here.
Or are you actually saying we're not allowed to feel uncomfortable? It's not like we're telling you that you have to feel uncomfortable when you don't.
That'd make sense if she were depicted as being coy or appreciative about it, but she was clutching her bare boobs in embarrassment.
That was her first reaction, true. But if you look at the next panel after Senor's mouth-wiping, you can see her blushing and being fond of it. She also wasn't even blushing during the boobs scene but rather during the one I just described.
By that logic, let's say I have a fight with a guy in a bar.
Would it be totaly okay for me to punch his girlfriend?
Well, some people here thinks that if you're a man and your enemy is a woman, you should kick her until she bleeds out on the floor…so expect any kind of answers...
Those girls were not simply fans, they are part of the family as well just like those nameless fodder guys. They were Doflamingo lackeys trying to stop Franky, so why should he treat them differently?
yeah, YOUR OnePiece?
It's Oda's OnePiece, not yours or mine.
Not having rape in OP doesn't erase the concept of rape in real life.I don't really like the scene either, but part of this forum's fanbase bring things tooooooooooooooooo far.
I think that if many of you spent your enthusiasm and effort for a right cause in the real life instead of blabbering about sexism in a manga forum, this planet would be a better place.
I guess the same could be said about people who spend their enthusiasm and effort trying to stop others every time they think people are being politically correct. Don't know if that's your case, but certainly fits a lot of people here.
Either way, I guess the points were made clear and the discussion regarding this scene is not going anywhere.
She wasn't objectified whatsoever. Pink took her top to wipe his mouth and then told the girls to go get a younger man.
Not preying upon them when they're so obviously at his whim is pretty much the absolute opposite of objectifying.
In Senior Pink's opinion he was acting normally and wasn't objectifying the women he probably needed something to wipe his mouth. But what this shows in a broader sense is that the female was sexually assaulted and was initially upset and embarrassed but was happy with the assault. It isn't a comfortable thing to display in One Piece. In the very strict nature of the world and Senior Pinks point of view it was okay but Oda is writing to an audience from the real world where that act was sexual assault and the female was totally happy with it, leading to the conclusion those females were just objects.
I'm not saying this is 100% the case but I felt uncomfortable with the scene.
It shouldn't come as much as a surprise though. When we were shown glimpses of Dressrosa, we saw both Senor Pink and Doffy being surrounded by women. And nothing at that time was hinting at those girls being anything other than a pimp's entourage (to make use of Silver's eloquent choice of words). Those women are worshiping Senor Pink for some unknown reason and it makes sense in that particular context. Oda might simply be going for a littler more realistic situation with Dressrosa. And I think it works. It suits Doffy and the arc as a whole pretty well. Makes them look like real antagonists if you want.
Fair enough, but if he were going for a bit of unsettling verisimilitude it could have been done better than as a throwaway gag.
Well, some people here thinks that if you're a man and your enemy is a woman, you should kick her until she bleeds out on the floor…so expect any kind of answers...
But of course I should. Equality is after all the most important thing, am I right?
Of course I am.
Great chapter, Franky is pulling a Luffy and going in just smashing everything, I like it. Straws are def gonna need some more top tier fighters to help them. With no Sanji and Law, plus Luffy taking on DD and Zoro matched up with a family executive, there are still some that need to be handled.
what's wrong in wanting a guy who strips off a girl's bra to chew it getting one shoted..and i hope those bitches will get slap like this…:ninja:
who wants to see characters get one shoted anyway that's completely pointless.
Pink is like an inverse Baby 5
Comically unappealing man-baby, who gets droves of hot fangirls
Hot french maid, who can't say no to the advances of disgusting men
Truly the epitome of clever shonen humor and class.
Franky is in the middle of a situation where hundreds of people are turned into toys and enslaved, as well as dwarves.
He's on a limited time schedule to destroy the factory and rescue all those innocents being oppressed.
He doesn't really have time to figure out who's who, especially when they're all directly in front of the toy house that he's been told is being guarded.
I know what you said is my opinion as well. He is at the enemy strong hold and he could assume they are all enemies so shouldn't hold back. Someone else said I shouldn't be concerned with the removal of the Bra by Pink because the girls were physically harmed.
I'm not trying to make it look like anything. It was uncomfortable to me and I stated the reasons why. It shows objectification for the girl and that she enjoyed being treated in a way that would constitute sexual assault and jail time if you did it in real life. I just personally don't like that.
Yes I can understand your opinion that this is his personality and he didn't mean anything by it but the girl enjoying the treatment was where I didn't enjoy the scene.
Then I will accept your personal opinion as such and take it out of the equation when discussing this particular matter. Just one last thing. If the girl was alright with it (i.e. liked it even) then you wouldn't go to jail for such behavior (that scene is of course only applicable to your girlfriend or your groupies if we are to compare it to the chapter).