So you're fine with Sabo being alive…but are fighting tenaciously against the idea of him leaving sake cups at Ace's grave...why?
I'm bored when the spoilers are out and I can't read them.
So you're fine with Sabo being alive…but are fighting tenaciously against the idea of him leaving sake cups at Ace's grave...why?
I'm bored when the spoilers are out and I can't read them.
Sabo is either dead or braindead or turned into a villain. I dont think there is any other possibility for him for not showing up to save Ace. If any of you can think of any others please enlighten me.
Because Ace had his own gigantic family, the greatest pirate fleet and strongest human on earth to come and rescue him. As they did until Ace stopped fleeing.
Also not to reveal Sabo, as he was only revealed after the Marineford war, taking the suprise of Ace's background and the whole flashback revelations including the explanation for his tattoo.
@'T€:
@$;3019042']Sabo is either dead or braindead or turned into a villain. I dont think there is any other possibility for him for not showing up to save Ace. If any of you can think of any others please enlighten me.
Didn't Ivankov say something to the effect of "believe in White Beard to save Ace" ? I think many people in the world assumed White beard and his men were plenty capable. Even if they weren't, you can bet the question will come up at some point when Sabo is revealed. Who knows what mission he was involved in at the time, Dragon himself could have forbid Sabo from getting involved. We'll see, we just don't know but I'm sure there are plenty of justifiable reasons for it.
ok. still can not find it convincing enough though. Oda may come up with an altogether different and better explanation than mine.
on a side note, I think Luffy is going to team up with barto and cabbage at some point or vice versa so we have another trio like Kid, Law and Luffy trio and Luffy, Zoro and Sanji trio.
Elaboration:
Luffy, Zoro and Sanji trio(Monster trio): Zoro is wild and badass, Sanji is smart and chivalrous. Luffy complements them being dumb and funny.
Kid, Law and Luffy trio: future top 3 competitors for pirate king. Kid is arrogant and reckless(represents brawn), Law is calculating and manipulative(represents brain) and Luffy is friendly, brave and charismatic(represents heart).
Luffy, Barto and Cavendish trio: Cavendish dies for public attention, Bartolomeo pisses off public and Luffy does not care for attention.
And another completely baseless theory of mine is that after Dressrosa arc Sanji's bounty is going to be greater than 250 million and after Big Mom arc, greater than 400 million ie when Jinbe joins. The reason i thought of this is Jinbe's first bounty is 76 million, then 250 million and finally above 400 million.
He could be on his own mission, hidding, doing something on the other side of the world without daily newspapers, there are several scenarios possible that would explain his absence, if he's really alive.
Oda has given no explanation as the character is supposedly dead.
@God:
My theory for dressrosa arc:
In the midst of all the chaos after the arena is revealed, the marines will take the mera mera no mi and fujitora will have it in his position. He's some how knows garp and will give him the fruit so coby can have it. It's fitting and I don't really see anyone else getting it.
and after that coby gets shot, and the power goes back to a nearby fruit, wich Don wil claim again and put it back as price for winning the tournament.
Kuzan is actually still working undercover for the marines. He never wanted to serve under Sakazuki so instead of letting him leave, Sakazuki offered him a role where he can still serve justice but under his own rules. Being sent in to spy on Teach of all people, the worst of the worst generation just totally seems like a Sakazuki move to me.
In the Final Arc, Law will have a rematch with Fujitora.
I've never heard the Ace tattoo explanation. What is it?
@Ittoryu:
I've never heard the Ace tattoo explanation. What is it?
On his arm is A_S(with X over/under it)_C_E, the s that's marked out isn't a mistake like it was originally thought as when Ace was first introduced, the S with a X over it is a tribute to Sabo as it looks like Sabo's flag=
First sight of of the tattoo is ch 157=[hide] [/hide]
It was proven to be homage to Sabo when Oda drew the cover for ch596, it showed a "What if" cover with Sabo alive, Ace's tattoo did not have the x-ed out S.
[hide] [/hide]
Here's a random theory of mine - Usopp's earlier lies are slowly becoming truths right? I see this as his progression towards realising his dream of becoming a brave warrior of the sea, as he is bit by bit becoming the man he always wanted to be. His most prominent lie throughout the series is that he is Captain Usopp, with 8000 followers. So my theory is that this "goal" will be realised at the end of the series, and will mark his achievement in becoming a brave warrior of the sea, fulfilling his dream.
I don't know how that would happen. I hope it isn't because Luffy amassed 8000 allies by the end of the series and then he dies so Usopp takes over. :blink: I don't want Luffy to die at the end even though I kind of think he will just because there have been sooo many references to the strain on his body, as well as the parallels with Roger who of course died shortly after reaching Raftel.
Ace could have tell his crew.
Your acting like Ace is real, and that he has interactions of importance with characters off screen that have never been mentioned or even foreshdowed by the author… you realize that's absurd right
let's see what's more probable the author put those three sake cups there because
A: Sabo's alive because the sake cups are a symbol of there brotherhood as was set up by the author of the series specifically for us the readers to identify between those three characters
or
B: Nah Oda wants us to know that characters completley unrelated to the scene in anyway put that there because ace told them about his bro OFF SCREEN, SO NOT A SINGLE FAN KNEW ABOUT IT!
do you know how many shitty theories we could start creating if we went under the assumption that characters all had these meaningful talks with important information told to others without the author hinting at it, showing it, or foreshadowing it? Well I don't even want to think about it
@indigo~ink:
Here's a random theory of mine - Usopp's earlier lies are slowly becoming truths right? I see this as his progression towards realising his dream of becoming a brave warrior of the sea, as he is bit by bit becoming the man he always wanted to be. His most prominent lie throughout the series is that he is Captain Usopp, with 8000 followers. So my theory is that this "goal" will be realised at the end of the series, and will mark his achievement in becoming a brave warrior of the sea, fulfilling his dream.
I don't know how that would happen. I hope it isn't because Luffy amassed 8000 allies by the end of the series and then he dies so Usopp takes over. :blink: I don't want Luffy to die at the end even though I kind of think he will just because there have been sooo many references to the strain on his body, as well as the parallels with Roger who of course died shortly after reaching Raftel.
Nah, Usopp will have his 8000 followers 4000 little peoples and 4000 giants, making him the real boss in the picture, just picture him, 4000 giants on the back and 4000 little peoples on front while he's standing between them and Marines HD is in front of him
PS:somebody has to draw this
Nah, Usopp will have his 8000 followers 4000 little peoples and 4000 giants, making him the real boss in the picture, just picture him, 4000 giants on the back and 4000 little peoples on front while he's standing between them and Marines HD is in front of him
PS:somebody has to draw this
Dayum… I really would love to see a fanart of this!
Ace could have tell his crew.
Or he told it to garp and garp told it to dadan and dadan told it to makino and makino told it shanks(who she has a baby with) and shanks decided to keep it a secret. and in the end sabo visited the grave of his brother and placed those cups there after drinking his.
Nah, Usopp will have his 8000 followers 4000 little peoples and 4000 giants, making him the real boss in the picture, just picture him, 4000 giants on the back and 4000 little peoples on front while he's standing between them and Marines HD is in front of him
PS:somebody has to draw this
i can almost see this, its the final war with usopp standing alone with his speech " I've got 8000 followers! Give up now if you wanna live!"
and they would real show up:)
Or he told it to garp and garp told it to dadan and dadan told it to makino and makino told it shanks(who she has a baby with) and shanks decided to keep it a secret. and in the end sabo visited the grave of his brother and placed those cups there after drinking his.
I doubt Shanks have came back to eastblue over the past 12 years.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
A: Sabo's alive because the sake cups are a symbol of there brotherhood as was set up by the author of the series specifically for us the readers to identify between those three characters
No matter of who did really put the cups the simple fact they were three cups is enough to make the reader that Sabo is most likely alive. Sabo just have to appear before they say who put it.
I doubt Shanks have came back to eastblue over the past 12 years.
What the Shanks/Makino shippers use for support of "Shanks visited East Blue during the time-skip" is the comment that the baby's father in SBS vol 63=
D: The thing that concerns me is the cover of chapter 614. You see how Makino-san is holding a baby? Does that mean that baby is Makino-san's child?! And does that mean the father is me?! P.N. Dandelion
O: NOT YOU!!! (Shock)
…ah... Sorry. Well--. Seems Makino-san became a mother. She looks very happy. The father is maybe that person-. Yeah, probably that person.
Plus add that the very first ship of One Piece is Shanks x Makino, there are a LOT of people that support the idea the baby is Shanks.
True we do not know WHO "that person" is, but since only males we've seen Makino really interact with are the mayor Woop Slap (who is more of a father/grandfather figure for the village) and Shanks.
Not to mention Shanks is a free man. There's nothing preventing him from going to East Blue and back whenever he wants.
Not to mention Shanks is a free man. There's nothing preventing him from going to East Blue and back whenever he wants.
Well the government seems pretty stressed everytime a yonkou make a move. Plus the other yonkou would probably take advantage of it.
Shanks leaving a mysterious baby behind might as well be confirmation of him dying lol.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well the government seems pretty stressed everytime a yonkou make a move. Plus the other yonkou would probably take advantage of it.
Which is why he would do something like that in secret.
@Monkey:
Which is why he would do something like that in secret.
Wouldn't a trip to eastblue take way to long to go unnoticed?
How could anyone argue that Shanks isn't going to die at some point during the story? Killed by Blackbeard most likely. It seems so blindly…inevitable.
Wouldn't a trip to eastblue take way to long to go unnoticed?
The Yonkou are in a cold war not a hot one, what pressing matter requires his constant physical presence.
Wouldn't a trip to eastblue take way to long to go unnoticed?
He's able to travel fast. Remember how astonished the Marines were when he showed up at Marineford, claiming he was on the other side of the Redline and had a conflict with Kaido the day prior.
He's a Yonkou, capable of scaring off Sea Kings, Once on the other side of the Red Line (In the Paradise side of the Grand Line) then its easy to cross the Calm Belt to East Blue.
Going that route could take less than a month from New World to that village in East Blue. I'm sure Shanks has allies that could protect his area for a while.
BB wouldn't be a problem at the time the baby was conceived, as it would have been in the first year of the time skip the baby would have been conceived, BB would have claiming his turf in that time. As WB was dead, that would be the easiest region to claim, not Shanks' region
On his arm is A_S(with X over/under it)_C_E, the s that's marked out isn't a mistake like it was originally thought as when Ace was first introduced, the S with a X over it is a tribute to Sabo as it looks like Sabo's flag=
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120325221836/onepiece/images/0/06/Sabo_flag.png
First sight of of the tattoo is ch 157=[hide] http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/01/29/o/read51082f0d1d8b4/img000013.jpg[/hide]It was proven to be homage to Sabo when Oda drew the cover for ch596, it showed a "What if" cover with Sabo alive, Ace's tattoo did not have the x-ed out S.
[hide] http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130616031849/onepiece/images/6/69/Adult_Sabo.png[/hide]
Thank you sir.
/16 char
@Ittoryu:
Thank you sir.
/16 char
You're welcome …though I'm a lady No need to apologize though its difficult to tell online and well its easier to call someone 'sir' than 'lady' esp when we use a certain avatar LOL
tho i said the baby might be shanks, its also possible it belongs to Ace. that would mean Roger's bloodline lives on.
its possible that when Dadan said the most in pain right now is Luffy, while she has his baby made her run crying.
I would find that a bit weird considering the age difference, I mean I thought Makino was more of a mother/older sister figure to Ace and Luffy. I am voting for Shanks!
I don't know if this has been suggested before but I think ricky is the former king of Dressrosa.
How could anyone argue that Shanks isn't going to die at some point during the story? Killed by Blackbeard most likely. It seems so blindly…inevitable.
no it doesn't
what exactly would make you think so?@Monkey:
The Yonkou are in a cold war not a hot one, what pressing matter requires his constant physical presence.
yonkou are under constant surveillance from the marines though
The fact that Blackbeard scarred shanks before he got his two ultimate devil fruits. This combined with the fact that Luffy and Shanks are not meeting up on purpose leads me to believe Luffy's going to lose Shanks rather than beat him physically.
Just think about that, in order for Luffy to truly surpass Shanks he would have to beat Shanks in a fight. You don't fight your idol, you just don't. Not a real pirate fight. And that's what it would take.
So if you believe that Luffy is going to beat Shanks physically to the point of unconsciousness and break Shanks "dreams" (because that's what Luffy does) then you may be correct that Shanks will survive the story. I on the other hand, don't believe this is going to happen. And the only way to prevent that inevitable fight is to kill Shanks or Luffy.
Plus there's the whole giving Luffy the hat, personifying inherited will which is a total huge theme in One Piece.
Shanks being killed by Blackbeard is a theory that has good chances of becoming true but it's still a theory.
tho i said the baby might be shanks, its also possible it belongs to Ace. that would mean Roger's bloodline lives on.
its possible that when Dadan said the most in pain right now is Luffy, while she has his baby made her run crying.
No, its impossible as we know Ace's travels, he had no chance to get to East Blue to knock up Makino for one reason - Not only do we know he was New World until Thatch was killed, then Ace traveled the Grand Line searching for BB, he never went into East Blue. Ace refused to be deterred from his hunt for BB for any reason, not even to spend time with his little brother, so nope he didn't go into East Blue just to se Makino.
We know he was at Drum then wen further down towards Arabastra, then Banaro. This took him months but he was in the Grand Line in that time.
Beside look at that baby, he's likely under 1 yr old, so when the baby was conceived Ace was dead.
For the sake of argument lest say IF Ace was able to get to in East Blue and Makino pregnant, then (due to the BB hunt) it had to be some time before he met up with Luffy. He would have to have impregnated the woman quite a few months before the events at Marineford. So any kid he fathered would be -at youngest- 1 and a half yrs old , but more likely nearing 2, at end of time_skip. TI'll say it again, Makino's baby isn't that old since at age 1 1/2 to 2, babies are able to stand on their feet. The baby she's hold is the way one holds a baby (the position of arms that the bundle of blankets) like that is how one holds a very young baby.
what exactly would make you think so?yonkou are under constant surveillance from the marines though
For ship movements and probably on the edges of their territory.
There's a million ways an individual could sneak out.
Regarding Shanks, having him die to Blackbeard seems a bit too much. Blackbeard has done enough already, to have him kill shanks will just make it look like Oda is going out of his way to make everyone go out on the streets and burn pictures of BB.
He's enough of a villlain already. If he killed shanks my emotional impact of red hairs death would be almost overshadowed by frustration, not directed 100% thowards Blackbeard but partly with Oda for having to make Blackbeard the literal reason for why the manga cant have nice things,
Regarding Shanks, having him die to Blackbeard seems a bit too much. Blackbeard has done enough already, to have him kill shanks will just make it look like Oda is going out of his way to make everyone go out on the streets and burn pictures of BB.
If Blackbeard is to be the final villain (and he is) then Luffy's current anger toward him is not enough.
He is only backwardly kind of responsible for what happened to Ace.
It's not really personal yet. Luffy's reaction to the Burgess phone conversation wasn't even as angry as he got with Mohji for burning down the pet food store lol.
Blackbeard has done enough already, to have him kill shanks will just make it look like Oda is going out of his way to make everyone go out on the streets and burn pictures of BB.
You say that as if it would only make sense as a convenient drama point.
But uh no? We have two Yonkou groups, that means BB and Shanks are already in competition. Hell from even before that we know there is MAJOR antipathy between them.
So we have natural competitors on one hand, and two guys who already have a natural hatred between them.
It's not even just a dramatic point, it's a plot point that makes sense on it's own. If we magically removed Luffy's relationship with Shanks, than it would still be something that would make sense as happening.
It's natural the two would come to blows. And the most sensible result of that dramatically is Shanks loses and loses big.
He's enough of a villlain already.
He really isn't. The worst thing he's done is what? You can answer personal and impersonal evil deeds both and come up short here.
Crocodile is a worse villain and he was redeemed for the most part!
I get the feeling you don't think he's the final villain.
If he killed shanks my emotional impact of red hairs death would be almost overshadowed by frustration, not directed 100% thowards Blackbeard but partly with Oda for having to make Blackbeard the literal reason for why the manga cant have nice things,
So you're saying you'd be incredibly upset and furious at the character.
How is this is not an excellent argument for it happening lol.
If I was the author (and I try to think like one all the time in these threads), you're reaction right here would be motive for me to do it!
@Monkey:
If Blackbeard is to be the final villain (and he is) then Luffy's current anger toward him is not enough.
He is only backwardly kind of responsible for what happened to Ace.
It's not really personal yet. Luffy's reaction to the Burgess phone conversation wasn't even as angry as he got with Mohji for burning down the pet food store lol.You say that as if it would only make sense as a convenient drama point.
But uh no? We have two Yonkou groups, that means BB and Shanks are already in competition. Hell from even before that we know there is MAJOR antipathy between them.
So we have natural competitors on one hand, and two guys who already have a natural hatred between them.
It's not even just a dramatic point, it's a plot point that makes sense on it's own. If we magically removed Luffy's relationship with Shanks, than it would still be something that would make sense as happening.
It's natural the two would come to blows. And the most sensible result of that dramatically is Shanks loses and loses big.He really isn't. The worst thing he's done is what? You can answer personal and impersonal evil deeds both and come up short here.
Crocodile is a worse villain and he was redeemed for the most part!I get the feeling you don't think he's the final villain.
So you're saying you'd be incredibly upset and furious at the character.
How is this is not an excellent argument for it happening lol.If I was the author (and I try to think like one all the time in these threads), you're reaction right here would be motive for me to do it!
Blackbeards list of bad deeds:
*Staying with WB just so he could possibly find the yami yami no mi, and kills a crewmate in his division to get it.
*Wreaks havoc in the grand line for fun (attacking drum kingdom)
*Plans to take Luffy but is instead goes with Ace to the world gouvernment for a shichibukai post, wich he uses to set the following plan in motion:
*Ace's planned execution causes the biggest war between pirates and marines in modern OP history, leading to the death of thousands including Ace
*Goes into impel down and forces the worst criminals in impel down to fight each others in a battle of life and death so he can recruit those who have proved to be the strongest
*Comes back and togheter with his crew kills whitebeard, his former captain and "adoptive father", takes his gura gura no mi and tries to use it to sink marineford
how is that not worse than crocodile?
I believe that hes the final villain of the Raftel Arc. But i dont know if that is the last Arc of the series. The final battle is probably against the WG because otherwise i dont see how the revolutionaries will come in to play. But final pirate villain, yes.
The fact that you are so certain that he will be the final villain too kinda proves that he has done enough already to earn that status.
The best Fantasy Novel series (closest thing to OP imo but i guess thats debatable) has several villains each responsible for horrible deeds. Having just one guy responsible for everything bad, basicly turning into an incarnation of pure evil, is cheap easy writing. i prefer diversity.
Blackbeards list of bad deeds:
*Staying with WB just so he could possibly find the yami yami no mi, and kills a crewmate in his division to get it.
Ok but what does Luffy care about that? Also aside from killing Thatch, that's pretty pedestrian as far as villains go.
*Wreaks havoc in the grand line for fun (attacking drum kingdom)
Alright we're now on the Buggy Pirates level of villainy lol. Gonna need more than that.
*Plans to take Luffy but is instead goes with Ace to the world gouvernment for a shichibukai post, wich he uses to set the following plan in motion:
That's not villainous? I don't think Luffy would even blame anyone going after him over his bounty. Like he'd resist it fully of course, but that's nothing that crosses any moral lines for him. Nor should it really.
*Ace's planned execution causes the biggest war between pirates and marines in modern OP history, leading to the death of thousands including Ace
lol, WHERE did you get that figure?
1. You made it up.
2. It wasn't a war, it was a single battle.
3. The deceased (however many there was) were all soldiers and pirates. No innocent people were involved. Everyone was either doing their duty or living a natural extension of the pirate life. And nobody was fooled into it. A thing that could have happened anyway without BB (Ace getting captured by the government) took place. There's nothing villainous about this.
As compared to the completely manufactured pointless civil war in Alabasta.
*Goes into impel down and forces the worst criminals in impel down to fight each others in a battle of life and death so he can recruit those who have proved to be the strongest
Cruel, but not really that bad considering most of them were awful people who were basically screeching rape threats at Hancock when she was down there.
*Comes back and togheter with his crew kills whitebeard, takes his gura gura no mi and tries to use it to sink marineford
This is still supremely below Crocodile.
how is that not worse than crocodile?
Blackbeard has laid a fiery path through the career criminal world of pirates, and done some fairly bad things to the Marines.
Crocodile propogated famine and environmental disaster as he drove an innocent nation into a fake civil war pitting well meaning reluctant people against each-other for a false premise that meant every single person involved died in vain, entirely for his personal gain.
Nothing you just listed touches that.
I believe that hes the final villain of the Raftel Arc. But i dont know if that is the last Arc of the series. The final battle is probably against the WG because otherwise i dont see how the revolutionaries will come in to play.
Everything points to BB as final villain. Who in the WG has received that level of characterization?
The fact that you are so certain that he will be the final villain too kinda proves that he has done enough already.
Except almost all my theory is based on thematic framing as a mirror version of the Strawhats.
The best Fantasy Novel series (closest thing to OP imo but i guess thats debatable) has several villains each responsible for horrible deeds. Having just one guy responsible for everything bad, basicly turning into an incarnation of pure evil, is cheap easy writing. i prefer diversity.
Everything what?
Akainu actually is the one who killed Ace.
And the Gorusei and WG by extension are responsible for 800 years of likely unessecary dictatorship and violent crackdowns.
Oh and again, Blackbeard has barely done anything severely bad yet.
As painfully illustrated by Luffy not being enraged by him. I mean you really can't pretend BB is HUGE HORRIBLE VILLAIN yet when this was Luffy's current feeling toward him.
Luffy had more of a reaction from literally hearing Akainu's name on Fishman Island!
I mean are you going to argue with Luffy on this? By extension Oda?
You're welcome …though I'm a lady No need to apologize though its difficult to tell online and well its easier to call someone 'sir' than 'lady' esp when we use a certain avatar LOL
Oops. I apologize. Thank you ma'am.
@Ittoryu:
Oops. I apologize. Thank you ma'am.
tis fine
@Monkey:
Ok but what does Luffy care about that? Also aside from killing Thatch, that's pretty pedestrian as far as villains go.
Alright we're now on the Buggy Pirates level of villainy lol. Gonna need more than that.
That's not villainous? I don't think Luffy would even blame anyone going after him over his bounty. Like he'd resist it fully of course, but that's nothing that crosses any moral lines for him. Nor should it really.
lol, WHERE did you get that figure?
1. You made it up.
2. It wasn't a war, it was a single battle.
3. The deceased (however many there was) were all soldiers and pirates. No innocent people were involved. Everyone was either doing their duty or living a natural extension of the pirate life. And nobody was fooled into it. A thing that could have happened anyway without BB (Ace getting captured by the government) took place. There's nothing villainous about this.
As compared to the completely manufactured pointless civil war in Alabasta.Cruel, but not really that bad considering most of them were awful people who were basically screeching rape threats at Hancock when she was down there.
This is still supremely below Crocodile.
Blackbeard has laid a fiery path through the career criminal world of pirates, and done some fairly bad things to the Marines.
Crocodile propogated famine and environmental disaster as he drove an innocent nation into a fake civil war pitting well meaning reluctant people against each-other for a false premise that meant every single person involved died in vain, entirely for his personal gain.
Nothing you just listed touches that.Everything points to BB as final villain. Who in the WG has received that level of characterization?
Except almost all my theory is based on thematic framing as a mirror version of the Strawhats.
Everything what?
Akainu actually is the one who killed Ace.
And the Gorusei and WG by extension are responsible for 800 years of likely unessecary dictatorship and violent crackdowns.
Oh and again, Blackbeard has barely done anything severely bad yet.
As painfully illustrated by Luffy not being enraged by him. I mean you really can't pretend BB is HUGE HORRIBLE VILLAIN yet when this was Luffy's current feeling toward him.
Luffy had more of a reaction from literally hearing Akainu's name on Fishman Island!I mean are you going to argue with Luffy on this? By extension Oda?
Im going to agree with you on the point of BB not being on the number 1 hate list of luffy, but hes certainly the most hated by most of the readers.
What you missed is that the thing that makes BB so sinister is that he abused the public execution, wich he set in motion and planned out, just to use it as a means to reach his goals of recruiting people in impel down and drawing out whitebeard to take the gura gura no mi. thats a pretty diabolical scheme.
but you dont seem to look at it big picture wise, judging every action there as an isolated incident will of course paint it in different light.
and i guess it comes down to each and everyone to judge each action differently but i personally found his murder of his former "father" Whitebeard to be the most provoking event in the series so far.
just asking out of curiousity: if you think blackbeard is the final villain of the entire series, when do you think the revolutionaries will come into play? do you think the manga will end with the gorosei and tenryuubito still in charge? Will this be dealt with before raftel/BB? Its WBs quote about the finding of one piece leading to a battle that will shake the foundations of the world, and how much the gouvernment fears this, that leads me to believe that the war whitebeard is talking about will be the final arc.
We know from Oda that the final arc will be a huge war on a such giant scale thats not even comparable to marineford. i dont see this happening in the blackbeard arc.
Im going to agree with you on the point of BB not being on the number 1 hate list of luffy, but hes certainly the most hated by most of the readers.
Akainu begs to differ. Also this isn't even a point. The main character has to come to hate that level of foe more than this, the readers don't have any effect on this whatsoever.
What you missed is that the thing that makes BB so sinister is that he abused the public execution, wich he set in motion and planned out, just to use it as a means to reach his goals of recruiting people in impel down and drawing out whitebeard to take the gura gura no mi.
Gosh, I sure hope Crocodile didn't abuse anything in his plan that resulted in the completely pointless deaths of civilians, soldiers, and rebels.
thats a pretty diabolical scheme.
It's clever, but it doesn't rank very high on the villain scale considering it wasn't based on fooling anyone, and only involved career combatants. And events set in motion could have happened anyway without him up to and including Whitebeard's death.
but you dont seem to look at it big picture wise, judging every action there as an isolated incident will of course paint it in different light.
I look at everything big picture. The big picture is just as unimpressive as the pieces.
I'm amused you think people would agree with you on that being shockingly evil compared to even Arlong. I'm not even convinced you think that.
You seem to be confusing complexity of plot with evil.
That still puts him significantly below a guy shooting an innocent woman in the head in front of her elementary aged children. No complexity involved, way worse.
and i guess it comes down to each and everyone to judge each action differently but i personally found his murder of his former "father" Whitebeard to be the most provoking event in the series so far.
And I'm disturbed the great warlord Whitebeard's death apparently bothers you more than random Alabastan's starving to death.
Talk about not seeing the big picture.
just asking out of curiousity: if you think blackbeard is the final villain of the entire series, when do you think the revolutionaries will come into play? do you think the manga will end with the gorosei and tenryuubito still in charge?
How is it you think the revolutionaries are going to be some absolute good that walks up smiling to Luffy to end the government in happy peaceful collaboration. What an incredibly boring end game for them that would be.
Also how is it you imagine a massive final war would only have TWO SIDES loll. Come on. The WG will be dealt with in the finale, so would Blackbeard. But the Gorusei aren't going to be the very last people standing. It would incredibly boring if they were.
Will this be dealt with before raftel/BB? Its WBs quote about the finding of one piece leading to a battle that will shake the foundations of the world, and how much the gouvernment fears this, that leads me to believe that the war whitebeard is talking about will be the final arc.
Yes. And Blackbeard will be involved in that war.
We know from Oda that the final arc will be a huge war on a such giant scale thats not even comparable to marineford. i dont see this happening in the blackbeard arc.
Why the heck would it be a "Blackbeard arc" lol.
Im on the side that believes BB will kill Shanks, but will not be the final villain.
@Monkey:
Akainu begs to differ. Also this isn't even a point. The main character has to come to hate that level of foe more than this, the readers don't have any effect on this whatsoever.
Gosh, I sure hope Crocodile didn't abuse anything in his plan that resulted in the completely pointless deaths of civilians, soldiers, and rebels.
It's clever, but it doesn't rank very high on the villain scale considering it wasn't based on fooling anyone, and only involved career combatants. And events set in motion could have happened anyway without him up to and including Whitebeard's death.
I look at everything big picture. The big picture is just as unimpressive as the pieces.
I'm amused you think people would agree with you on that being shockingly evil compared to even Arlong. I'm not even convinced you think that.
You seem to be confusing complexity of plot with evil.
That still puts him significantly below a guy shooting an innocent woman in the head in front of her elementary aged children. No complexity involved, way worse.And I'm disturbed the great warlord Whitebeard's death apparently bothers you more than random Alabastan's starving to death.
Talk about not seeing the big picture.How is it you think the revolutionaries are going to be some absolute good that walks up smiling to Luffy to end the government in happy peaceful collaboration. What an incredibly boring end game for them that would be.
Also how is it you imagine a massive final war would only have TWO SIDES loll. Come on. The WG will be dealt with in the finale, so would Blackbeard. But the Gorusei aren't going to be the very last people standing. It would incredibly boring if they were.Yes. And Blackbeard will be involved in that war.
Why the heck would it be a "Blackbeard arc" lol.
Lol, his Marineford-scheme was not based on fooling anyone? he set the marineford war in motion to lure out Whitebeard abd used his shichibukai status to get impel down recruits, then came back to the war that he set off while playing WG ally, even attending the dinner between the shichibukai and marines, to fight sengoku and try to sink marineford to the bottom of the ocean? He admits to all this when he leaves as he proclaims that he achieved his goals and got everything he wanted anyways. everything played out as he planned. How is that not doublecrossing and backstabbing?
I dont think the revolutionaries will fight on the same side as luffy, i think of them as one of the factions clashing, obviously targeting the marines. I imagine luffy being completley uninterested in politics, his goal is to become to pirate king and he most certainly views a war against the WG as a distraction. The will Rev's take them out after the other 3 "great powers" are dealt with in the war and dragon establishes a new world for the worlds nations while his son now rules the seas. how is asking when they will come in to play in any way implying that i they will walk up to luffy smiling and fight by his side? (altough i imagine they will approach him one way or the other considering their leader is Luffys Father. He might want to introduce himself to his son). You always seem to put words into other peoples mouths when you argue.
Blackbeard Arc was a substitute name since we dont know the actual name of that arc when he will be dealt with yet. Didnt expect you to take it so literally.
Lol, his Marineford-scheme was not based on fooling anyone?
he set the marineford war in motion to lure out Whitebeard abd used his shichibukai status to get impel down recruits, then came back to the war that he set off while playing WG ally, even attending the dinner between the shichibukai and marines, to fight sengoku and try to sink marineford to the bottom of the ocean?
Nope.
That would imply that the Whitebeard crew didn't actually want to rescue Ace.
And that the Government didn't actually want to execute Ace.
And would imply the only reason this scenario happened is that BB set it in motion. That it couldn't happened otherwise. Several things disprove this.
1. All of it would have happened anyway if say Akainu had captured Ace. The WB crew would still attack Marineford, and the Marines would still kill Ace.
Ace would still have died, and Whitebeard would also still have died, lest we forget he at that point had already declared he would stay behind and keep the Marines back until he died for the sake of his crew.
2. BB's original plan was capturing Luffy. Ace just happened to make himself the target by chasing BB and finding him.
He admits to all this when he leaves as he proclaims that he achieved his goals and got everything he wanted anyways. everything played out as he planned. How is that not doublecrossing and backstabbing?
Backstabbing isn't the same thing remotely as fooling people. The conflict was not manufactured by Blackbeard. He took advantage of it.
I dont think the revolutionaries will fight on the same side as luffy, i think of them as one of the factions clashing, obviously targeting the marines. I imagine luffy being completley uninterested in politics, his goal is to become to pirate king and he most certainly views a war against the WG as a distraction. The Rev's take them out once the other 2 "great powers" are dealt with in the war and Dragons son now rules the seas.
The way your describing it Luffy doesn't even do anything?? Am I following right?
Blackbeard Arc was a substitute name since we dont know the actual name of that arc when he will be dealt with yet. Didnt expect you to take it so literally.
By calling it that you imply that it would be very focused, or had to be to have him be the villain.
You believe it was a lucky accident that Luffy was Ace's brother and Blackbeard just kind of took advantage of things? But how long do you think Blackbeard had his devil fruit stealing idea? And when did Blackbeards full plan get formalized?
You believe it was a lucky accident that Luffy was Ace's brother and Blackbeard just kind of took advantage of things?
So when Blackbeard was going after the Strawhats in Jaya it was secretly to get Ace.
lol
@Monkey:
So when Blackbeard was going after the Strawhats in Jaya it was secretly to get Ace.
lol
No, I agree. I'm just interested in when Blackbeard made his plan to steal Whitebeard's devil fruit. Was the entire plan formed right as Ace told Blackbeard Luffy is his brother?
I'm sure Mihawk won't day. And I hope Shanks won't be killed. Not because I like him but because I want Luffy to give him the hat and get acknowledge by him. Tired of mentor not living to see the greatness of the main character.