The Monet Problem: An Arlong Park Wager

Monkey King

The Monet Problem: People giving a shit about this nobody character.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Eh, my thread, I can go off topic. :P

I was loving it through 701. Then the pacing died with 702, and with the reveal of the tournament arc I lost all enthusiasm. I never wanted to see a tournament arc in One-Piece, as I feel like there's just no way to truly make it as interesting and engaging as a standard arc. I felt like 703 was a completely meh chapter that shouldn't have been a chapter by itself, and, while 704 was a bit better, it felt like a lot more time wasted on people who aren't going to be around very long outside of Rebecca. The ending got me a little excited, as did 705. Oddly, everything outside of Luffy still has me excited.

I'm honestly surprised that I seem to be alone in this. In that poll about a tournament arc, so many people were against it. Yet the minute Oda started it, everyone fell in line. Which is cool. It's whatever. I'm sure by the end I'll love it, I just can't bring myself to get excited about it at the moment. It just feels as if this arc could have progressed just fine without this tournament stuff. It feels forced in, and I have no idea why Oda would do that.

A small tournamant in a larger arc =/= tournament arc.

And on top of all of it, I'm worried that Luffy participating in this tournament will all be part of some convoluted plan of Doflamingo's that will just reek of bad writing. But I've gone into enough detail on that recently in the Theories thread.

Donflamingo distracts Luffy from the rest of the group with Ace's fruit.
It's really very simple. And really not bad writing.

MasterKingJC

But, Zephos, if she's alive, then she needs to join so she can fill in the big-boobed female logia criteria.

Nex 0

@Monkey:

The Monet Problem: People giving a shit about this nobody character.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

A small tournamant in a larger arc =/= tournament arc.

If it lasts the length of Buggy's arc, then it's an arc, which I feel like it most certainly will. Especially if we get a good number of chapters dedicated solely to the tournament. Plus, it should be fairly obvious that we're not going to deal with Doflamingo till its done, so, yes, it is its own arc.

Donflamingo distracts Luffy from the rest of the group with Ace's fruit.
It's really very simple. And really not bad writing.

Well let's see. Luffy has no idea about the fruit as far as Doflamingo knows. The tournament is registering contestants by the tiome they arrive on the island. They could have docked anywhere on the island, it's just coincidental they were near the colloseum.

Now, my prepared responses:
Doflamingo could have expected Luffy to hear about it from the town?
–Luffy learned about it the same time it was announced to the general public, and he barely made it in time to participate.
That might have been the only place for them to dock.
--Oh really, then why isn't Doflamingo there waiting for them?
Some dumb reason.
--Well, he was confident enough in himself to go to Punk Hazard to take on the Straw Hats, Law, and the Marines all by himself.

If this is all part of Doflamingo's plan, it's going to end up being very convoluted. And that makes for bad writing.

1PceXperience

@Nex:

.
-**-Oh really, then why isn't Doflamingo there waiting for them?
Some dumb reason.
–Well, he was confident enough in himself to go to Punk Hazard to take on the Straw Hats, Law, and the Marines all by himself.

If this is all part of Doflamingo's plan, it's going to end up being very convoluted. And that makes for bad writing.**

If Flamingo waits for them at Dressrosa, how would he had been able to retrieve Caeser?
¿cómo iba a hacerlo~

Robby

@Nex:

I'm honestly surprised that I seem to be alone in this. In that poll about a tournament arc, so many people were against it. Yet the minute Oda started it, everyone fell in line.

The reasons for that are two-fold.

1)Oda got around the usual pitfalls, by having ONLY Luffy enter, and there being an actual prize at stake that Luffy cares about, rather than just "proving I'm the best". And since it's just Luffy, there will be none of the usual "friend vs. friend" or some strawhat having to jobber to make Luffy's enemy look good. As a result, the side fights can be mostly skipped and it can pretty much run right to the point.

2)There's 8 other plots running on concurrently. Which is pretty crazy, even by OP standards. Not every chapter is going to touch on all of them for 2 pages before hopping to the next.. but it also means Oda probably won't spend 10 chapters straight in the tournament. (Might spend 10 chapters total, but spaced among everything else.)

And on top of all of it, I'm worried that Luffy participating in this tournament will all be part of some convoluted plan of Doflamingo's that will just reek of bad writing. B

You don't have to worry about it, it's been flat out stated that's the case. Doflamingo gets Luffy away from his crew with some sentimental bait. Not convoluted in the least, and not bad writing at all. Especially when considering Luffy could have been pulled aside by a giant hunk of meat or something shiny or gotten his feet stuck in concrete or walked into a giant snake or gotten stuck between two buildings instead.

@Nex:

Well let's see. Luffy has no idea about the fruit as far as Doflamingo knows. The tournament is registering contestants by the tiome they arrive on the island. They could have docked anywhere on the island, it's just coincidental they were near the colloseum.

They SCHEDULED to meet on that island for the hostage exchange THAT day. He didn't announce it until they arrived.

Now, my prepared responses:
Doflamingo could have expected Luffy to hear about it from the town?

It's big news, so yes, anyone on the island who talks to ANYBODY is likely to hear about it.

Barring that, Luffy doesn't go but the tourney draws a lot of strong interesting guys together, from which Dofla can use for any number of purposes. It already drew one of Blackbeard's guys and someone else that's apparently up there in strength. "Well, now that you're all here, Strawhat and Law happens to be on the island. I'm offering X cash award to anyone that gets them, on top of their government bounty."

Luffy getting distracted by the tourney is an easily predictable bonus.

Plus, gives him a chance to fuck with Bellamy again.

–Luffy learned about it the same time it was announced to the general public, and he barely made it in time to participate.

If Luffy had arrived not in disguise, they would have let him and his 400 million bounty enter anyway, late or not.

Long as he got there before the prize was eaten he would have gotten involved, no matter ig he was in the official tourney or not.

That might have been the only place for them to dock.

Again, he knew the time and the place they'd agreed to meet, he scheduled accordingly.

–Oh really, then why isn't Doflamingo there waiting for them?
Some dumb reason.

Hostage, traps, hoping for the crew to split apart, not knowing what Law has in mind?

–Well, he was confident enough in himself to go to Punk Hazard to take on the Straw Hats, Law, and the Marines all by himself.

He'd hoped to get there before they left with the crucial hostage. And he had to check the place out to see whatever else needed salvaging.

If this is all part of Doflamingo's plan, it's going to end up being very convoluted. And that makes for bad writing.

-Lure Law and his hostage to home turf.
-Offer a prize that will attract a lot of strong guys, including hopefully Luffy

I don't see what's convoluted about that.

TheGreatestSwordsman

@Nex:

If it lasts the length of Buggy's arc, then it's an arc, which I feel like it most certainly will. Especially if we get a good number of chapters dedicated solely to the tournament. Plus, it should be fairly obvious that we're not going to deal with Doflamingo till its done, so, yes, it is its own arc.

Well let's see. Luffy has no idea about the fruit as far as Doflamingo knows. The tournament is registering contestants by the tiome they arrive on the island. They could have docked anywhere on the island, it's just coincidental they were near the colloseum.

Now, my prepared responses:
Doflamingo could have expected Luffy to hear about it from the town?
–Luffy learned about it the same time it was announced to the general public, and he barely made it in time to participate.
That might have been the only place for them to dock.
--Oh really, then why isn't Doflamingo there waiting for them?
Some dumb reason.
--Well, he was confident enough in himself to go to Punk Hazard to take on the Straw Hats, Law, and the Marines all by himself.

If this is all part of Doflamingo's plan, it's going to end up being very convoluted. And that makes for bad writing.

Only Luffy is being involved in the tournament arc fighting wise, and it seems to be rather silly to dislike an arc because there is a tournament in it.. There are 7 current storylines at the moment and 5 of them definitely have nothing to do with the tournament, potentially 6 if the factory isn't below the tournament regarding Franky. With Jesus and Barto included, the tournament is better than just Luffy beating fodder as well, and pretty boy and Rebecca may have some involvement somewhere.

Regarding Monet being in the ship, I agree with you. That would be a horrible plot hole and would make 0 sense, but I don't see it happening.

Nex 0

@1PceXperience:

If Flamingo waits for them at Dressrosa, how would he had been able to retrieve Caeser?
¿cómo iba a hacerlo~

Caesar would have been with them when the docked?

@RobbyBevard:

The reasons for that are two-fold.

1)Oda got around the usual pitfalls, by having ONLY Luffy enter. None of the usual "friend vs. friend" or some strawhat having to jobber to make Luffy's enemy look good. As a result, the side fights can be mostly skipped and it can pretty much run right to the point.

And I can definitely appreciate this. It's one of the few things giving me hope that it'll turn out better than I'm expecting.

Really, it's just that a lot of manga that i used to really love lost me during a tournament arc. I don't have good history with them.

2)There's 8 other plots running on concurrently. Which is pretty crazy, even by OP standards. Not every chapter is going to touch on all of them for 2 pages before hopping to the next.. but it also means Oda probably won't spend 10 chapters straight in the tournament. (Might spend 10 chapters total, but spaced among everything else.)

And I'm excited and interested in all of them. Unfortunately the same can not be said for the one our main character is involved in, which is the one that will get the most panel time.

–------

Dear lord, I've become _that guy_, haven't I?

1PceXperience

@Nex:

Caesar would have been with them when the docked?

But CC is a hostage. Flamingo doesn't know what Law could be planning. Just because Luffy doesn't kill, doesn't mean that Law never has. It wouldn't be hard for law to just end CC right then and there the moment Flamingo breaches his agreement. Flamingo is following the commands of the one currently in charge, as one should do in a hostage situation.

él está teniendo cuidado~

TheGreatestSwordsman

I do however find something strange regarding the tournament. I don't see Doflamingo using the Mera Mera fruit for Luffy only, a lot of different people from all kinds of different NW islands are here to get the fruit, and Dofla would have given the news what.. less than a day for everyone to come to the island? There is no way all of them would have met there in time. The timing however is pretty silly imo, that Luffy happens to go on the island at the exact same time that Doflamingo puts his brother's fruit as a prize.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@1PceXperience:

But CC is a hostage. Flamingo doesn't know what Law could be planning. Just because Luffy doesn't kill, doesn't mean that Law never has. It wouldn't be hard for law to just end CC right then and there the moment Flamingo breaches his agreement. Flamingo is following the commands of the one currently in charge.

él está teniendo cuidado~

.. and what was the point of DD going to Punk Hazard to beat up Law & Co.? If you remember, Law told him Luffy has gotten CC, and DD would be willing to get him then but not now? Doesn't add up at all.

Panda Bear

@Nex:

If it lasts the length of Buggy's arc, then it's an arc, which I feel like it most certainly will. Especially if we get a good number of chapters dedicated solely to the tournament. Plus, it should be fairly obvious that we're not going to deal with Doflamingo till its done, so, yes, it is its own arc.

Well let's see. Luffy has no idea about the fruit as far as Doflamingo knows. The tournament is registering contestants by the tiome they arrive on the island. They could have docked anywhere on the island, it's just coincidental they were near the colloseum.

Now, my prepared responses:
Doflamingo could have expected Luffy to hear about it from the town?
–Luffy learned about it the same time it was announced to the general public, and he barely made it in time to participate.
That might have been the only place for them to dock.
--Oh really, then why isn't Doflamingo there waiting for them?
Some dumb reason.
--Well, he was confident enough in himself to go to Punk Hazard to take on the Straw Hats, Law, and the Marines all by himself.

If this is all part of Doflamingo's plan, it's going to end up being very convoluted. And that makes for bad writing.

Yeah, I'll be honest Nex, while I won't disparage your right to hold your own opinion, I'm just not seeing a lot of your points as being valid here. For example, you say that things can't progress until the tournament is over, but how is that true? As other have said, there are an entire slew of other plot threads going on, and if I were a betting panda, I would be quite willing to bet that they will all be advancing before the tournament ends. For all any of us know, Caesar could get handed over, Kanjuro rescued, the factory found, and the marines arrive, all while Luffy is still in the tournament. That won't necessarily be the case, of course, but I don't see why you seem convinced it won't.

Sure, Doflamingo himself will most likely not be taken down until the tournament is over, but I can not fathom that that is the only thing in this arc that you are excited to see happen. Really, saying that the plot outside of the tournament can't progress until the tournament is over – because Luffy is the main character! -- feels like if someone had said, back during the Skypiea arc, that nothing could progress while Luffy was stuck in the belly of that snake. Granted that's not an entirely fair comparison, because this tournament will most likely have more page time dedicated to it than that, but I feel the point still stands.

As to feeling the set up is contrived, I can't help but feel you're making it more complicated than it really is. The only thing Doflamingo needed to rely on happening was for Luffy to hear about the tournament, and that the fruit was a prize. Given that the tournament seems to be quite the big deal, I really don't think that's very much of a stretch. Timing had nothing to do with it. We were shown, as readers, that Luffy wants the fruit. If he had heard about it too late to enter, it seems highly unlikely that he would have just shrugged his shoulders and left; rather, he still would have invested time in attempting to get it, whether by breaking into the tournament, or sitting and watching and trying to get it from the winner, or however else. The fact that he arrived just in time has nothing to do with Doflamingo's impossibly good planning, and everything to do with how Oda wished to set up the story.

Speaking of, you talk as though this tournament is completely unnecessary to the arc, and won't add anything once it's done, to the point of considering it it's own little mini-arc. Once again, I feel there is already hard evidence to contradict that stance. This week's very chapter demonstrated quite well, I think, that the fact this tournament is going on -- and thus that there are so many big name pirates on the island -- is going to end up leading to a situation of complete chaos once the marines arrive, something which would not have been the case otherwise.

@Nex:

And I'm excited and interested in all of them. Unfortunately the same can not be said for the one our main character is involved in, which is the one that will get the most panel time.

This right here, is what I feel is the crux of your issue, and the point where you lose me on your reason for objecting. Oda has shown plenty of times in the past that he is more than willing to shift focus off of Luffy onto the other crew members when they're split up. I see no reason whatsoever to believe that the tournament Luffy is in will get more screen time than any of the other plot threads going on, simply because it is the one that focuses on Luffy.

1PceXperience

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

.. and what was the point of DD going to Punk Hazard to beat up Law & Co.? If you remember, Law told him Luffy has gotten CC, and DD would be willing to get him then but not now? Doesn't add up at all.

I suppose you're right. Well then I don't know I guess.

No lo sé~

Nex 0

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Only Luffy is being involved in the tournament arc fighting wise, and it seems to be rather silly to dislike an arc because there is a tournament in it..

Yu-Yu Hakusho, Naruto, Dragon Ball, HSD: Kenichi and Shaman King were all series that I loved that went downhill due to a tournament arc. Hell, I even enjoyed Fairy Tail until that terrible effing tournament.
Notes: I don't count the ones in Slam Dunk or Eyeshield 21, as that was the entire nature of those mangas. Also I have not read Hunter X Hunter.

There are 7 current storylines at the moment and 5 of them definitely have nothing to do with the tournament, potentially 6 if the factory isn't below the tournament regarding Franky. With Jesus and Barto included, the tournament is better than just Luffy beating fodder as well, and pretty boy and Rebecca may have some involvement somewhere.

As I've said, i'm excited for all the other plot lines, but they will be overshadowed by this tournament since Luffy is the main character.
And, I'm not particularly fond of the idea of Luffy having to go all out in a tournament. Luffy's first serious fight should be against Doflamingo.

Regarding Monet being in the ship, I agree with you. That would be a horrible plot hole and would make 0 sense, but I don't see it happening.

I know, but I still have a terrible feeling that despite all common sense won't go away.

Robby

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

I do however find something strange regarding the tournament. I don't see Doflamingo using the Mera Mera fruit for Luffy only, a lot of different people from all kinds of different NW islands are here to get the fruit, and Dofla would have given the news what.. less than a day for everyone to come to the island? There is no way all of them would have met there in time.

Its a shady underworld island. Lots of bad, strong people were ALREADY there. There was probably almost no travel actually involved for anyone.

The timing however is pretty silly imo, that Luffy happens to go on the island at the exact same time that Doflamingo puts his brother's fruit as a prize.

Dofla knew when they were arriving and scheduled accordingly, that's not coincidence at all.

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

.. and what was the point of DD going to Punk Hazard to beat up Law & Co.? If you remember, Law told him Luffy has gotten CC, and DD would be willing to get him then but not now? Doesn't add up at all.

Pick up his minions (he had at least 4 there besides Ceaser that were indisposed), deal with marines, survey the damage, hide evidence, salvage anything he can, grab his porn collection. Stuff.

SEACOW

With all the hot babes around serving him, I doubt he has energy for porn.

Nex 0

@Panda:

Yeah, I'll be honest Nex, while I won't disparage your right to hold your own opinion, I'm just not seeing a lot of your points as being valid here. For example, you say that things can't progress until the tournament is over, but how is that true? As other have said, there are an entire slew of other plot threads going on, and if I were a betting panda, I would be quite willing to bet that they will all be advancing before the tournament ends. For all any of us know, Caesar could get handed over, Kanjuro rescued, the factory found, and the marines arrive, all while Luffy is still in the tournament. That won't necessarily be the case, of course, but I don't see why you seem convinced it won't.

Minor things will happen, but nothing major will occur while Luffy is removed from the big picture. Granted I could be wrong, and I think it would be rather interesting, but I don't see Oda keeping this many plotlines going for the duration of the arc. Soon, everything will have to be congealed. There will probably be a point in the middle of the arc where everything goes to hell: Doflamingo makes his move, the Marine's make theirs, CP0 does whatever their there for, and there's just chaos, cutting the tournament short. Or none of that could happen. But I don't see any major plot progress being made while Luffy's not there.

Sure, Doflamingo himself will most likely not be taken down until the tournament is over, but I can not fathom that that is the only thing in this arc that you are excited to see happen. Really, saying that the plot outside of the tournament can't progress until the tournament is over – because Luffy is the main character! -- feels like if someone had said, back during the Skypiea arc, that nothing could progress while Luffy was stuck in the belly of that snake. Granted that's not an entirely fair comparison, because this tournament will most likely have more page time dedicated to it than that, but I feel the point still stands.

Sigh…for the billionth time I am excited for everything outside of Luffy's plotline currently.

And the Skypiea comparison does not work, as the plot was well underway and Luffy was already involved in it. Here, everything's just getting started. That's why I feel so adamantly about nothing major progressing while Luffy's tied up in the tournament.

As to feeling the set up is contrived, I can't help but feel you're making it more complicated than it really is. The only thing Doflamingo needed to rely on happening was for Luffy to hear about the tournament, and that the fruit was a prize. Given that the tournament seems to be quite the big deal, I really don't think that's very much of a stretch. Timing had nothing to do with it. We were shown, as readers, that Luffy wants the fruit. If he had heard about it too late to enter, it seems highly unlikely that he would have just shrugged his shoulders and left; rather, he still would have invested time in attempting to get it, whether by breaking into the tournament, or sitting and watching and trying to get it from the winner, or however else. The fact that he arrived just in time has nothing to do with Doflamingo's impossibly good planning, and everything to do with how Oda wished to set up the story.

Speaking of, you talk as though this tournament is completely unnecessary to the arc, and won't add anything once it's done, to the point of considering it it's own little mini-arc. Once again, I feel there is already hard evidence to contradict that stance. This week's very chapter demonstrated quite well, I think, that the fact this tournament is going on – and thus that there are so many big name pirates on the island -- is going to end up leading to a situation of complete chaos once the marines arrive, something which would not have been the case otherwise.

And I get that, but I think that would have been better than Luffy participating in the tournament. Maybe him crashing it, or something.
Even then, I think there could have been many reasons for these pirates to be on Dressrosa. They're all tied to Doflamingo, so it could have had something to do with him resigning. The tournament itself did not have to happen. Oda made the choice to do it this way, though, so I can respect that. I'm just not

This right here, is what I feel is the crux of your issue, and the point where you lose me on your reason for objecting. Oda has shown plenty of times in the past that he is more than willing to shift focus off of Luffy onto the other crew members when they're split up. I see no reason whatsoever to believe that the tournament Luffy is in will get more screen time than any of the other plot threads going on, simply because it is the one that focuses on Luffy.

Considering we just had two chapters dedicated to the tournament, and a third in this last chapter was on the tournament (with all the other scenes outside of Law's group having barely any focus), I'd say that it's a safe bet.

TheGreatestSwordsman

@Nex:

Yu-Yu Hakusho, Naruto, Drgaon Ball, HSD: Kenichi and Shaman King were all series that I loved that went downhill due to a tournament arc. Hell, I even enjoyed Fairy Tail until that terrible effing tournament.
Notes: I don't count the ones in Slam Dunk or Eyeshield 21, as that was the entire nature of those mangas. Also I have not read Hunter X Hunter.

I know you didn't say that you stopped liking Dragon Ball and Yu-Yu Hakusho due to tournament arcs.

!
In all seriousness, I know you didn't just say that you stopped liking DB and Yu-Yu Hakusho because of tournament arcs, unless you are talking about the last arc in Yu-Yu Hakusho. :P Also didn't Naruto's "tournament arc" start about 20 or 25 episodes into the anime? That was the easily one of the best arcs in the whole series imo. How could you not love Naruto vs Neji? So you stopped liking it right after it started, I am rather confused. Ok, so basically you don't like tournament arcs and that's fair, everyone has their own preferences and I respect that despite the jokes. It makes sense why you don't like this arc regardless of whether I agree here with you or not.

And, I'm not particularly fond of the idea of Luffy having to go all out in a tournament. Luffy's first serious fight should be against Doflamingo.

Says who? Why does Doflamingo have to be Luffy's first all out battle? This here is a rather silly complaint unlike not liking tournaments, which is a matter of preference. Luffy can go all out vs anyone, maybe even a new character if need be, as long as the fight is great and well implemented. Honestly Doflamingo for me has gotten less interesting this arc, his smiling ruthless persona we saw before is much more interesting (to me) than the guy crapping his pants at having Kaido go after him, and leaving Bellamy alive after all that speech and what he did. Not to mention for a guy who plays everyone, he got played by Law how many times now?

I know, but I still have a terrible feeling that despite all common sense won't go away.

Don't worry, I don't think Oda will do it. :)

@RobbyBevard:

Its a shady underworld island. Lots of bad, strong people were ALREADY there. There was probably almost no travel actually involved for anyone.

Dofla knew when they were arriving and scheduled accordingly, that's not coincidence at all.

Ahh nope. I'm calling a plot hole bs if true, the amount of time (several hours) is not enough for all those characters to go there or all of them to be there. Oda just announced a massive amount of characters. Not to mention, Doflamingo had to fly back home using Buffalo which took even more time. Jesus, Barto and pretty boy all apparently were in the island just walking about until the perfect opportunity arose. Wow, what great timing. That's the equivalent of cheesy tv series where things just happened to happen at the exact same time to get a reaction, or better yet soap operas.

Pick up his minions (he had at least 4 there besides Ceaser that were indisposed), deal with marines, survey the damage, hide evidence, salvage anything he can, grab his porn collection. Stuff.

He clearly went with the intention of beating them himself. There was always the chance that they were all waiting for him and surround him and he still went alone, which clearly implies he thought he could take them all at once. Law is even waiting on the ship along with Ussop and Chopper in case DD comes crashing down, which implies again that they thought DD would come in alone to fight them. In fact, I still don't understand why they didn't wait for him there, as all 5 of them at once should have certainly taken him out. The only logical explanation is that Law needs DD alive for part of his plan. I'm not really sure why you're even trying to imply otherwise.

Nex 0

@RobbyBevard:

Dofla knew when they were arriving and scheduled accordingly, that's not coincidence at all.

Considering it's only been about a week since they resurfaced on Saobody he didn't have that much time to throw everything together, and get all these people there, since yes, quite a few did come from other countries and would have needed time to get there.
Especially when you figure that he had no idea Luffy would be heading to Dressrosa till 1 day before the tournament. That's a really quick time to get a tournament set up just to distract Luffy.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

I know you didn't say that you stopped liking Dragon Ball and Yu-Yu Hakusho due to tournament arcs.

! http://files.sharenator.com/this_is_where_you_get_the_fuck_out_Robert_Pattinson_Dressup-s557x313-302511-580.jpg
In all seriousness, I know you didn't just say that you stopped liking DB and Yu-Yu Hakusho because of tournament arcs, unless you are talking about the last arc in Yu-Yu Hakusho. :P Also didn't Naruto's "tournament arc" start about 20 or 25 episodes into the anime? That was the easily one of the best arcs in the whole series imo. How could you not love Naruto vs Neji? So you stopped liking it right after it started, I am rather confused. Ok, so basically you don't like tournament arcs and that's fair, everyone has their own preferences and I respect that despite the jokes. It makes sense why you don't like this arc regardless of whether I agree here with you or not.

Honestly, the tournament arc in DB that did it in for me was the final one in "Dragon Ball." There could have been a much better way to deal with Piccolo Jr. Then it just got worse from there.
With Yu-Yu, it was the Dark Tournament that did me in. It was fine, but my favorite part of the series was when Yusuke was just a spirit detective. I would love to see where the series would have gone had that remained the core.
And I've never watched the anime for Naruto. All I know is that after the Zabuza arc, the tournament (which I already had a bad relationship with at this point) felt like such a let down and it was standard shonen, when I had been thinking Naruto might be able to be a bit more. Seems like a foolish thought now…

Says who? Why does Doflamingo have to be Luffy's first all out battle? This here is a rather silly complaint unlike not liking tournaments, which is a matter of preference. Luffy can go all out vs anyone, maybe even a new character if need be, as long as the fight is great and well implemented. Honestly Doflamingo for me has gotten less interesting this arc, his smiling ruthless persona we saw before is much more interesting (to me) than the guy crapping his pants at having Kaido go after him, and leaving Bellamy alive after all that speech and what he did. Not to mention for a guy who plays everyone, he got played by Law how many times now?

To me, it would feel a little disappointing if Luffy's first legitimate threat in the New World was some recently introduced character instead of an established villain. Not too mention the last of the original Warlords (from when the series started) to be dealt with in some way. I could see Luffy kind of getting serious against Jesus, and I'd be okay with that, but I don't think that fight's going to happen for reasons I've gone into at length elsewhere.

TheGreatestSwordsman

@Nex:

Considering it's only been about a week since they resurfaced on Saobody he didn't have that much time to throw everything together, and get all these people there, since yes, quite a few did come from other countries and would have needed time to get there.
Especially when you figure that he had no idea Luffy would be heading to Dressrosa till 1 day before the tournament. That's a really quick time to get a tournament set up just to distract Luffy.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Honestly, the tournament arc in DB that did it in for me was the final one in "Dragon Ball." There could have been a much better way to deal with Piccolo Jr. Then it just got worse from there.
With Yu-Yu, it was the Dark Tournament that did me in. It was fine, but my favorite part of the series was when Yusuke was just a spirit detective. I would love to see where the series would have gone had that remained the core.
And I've never watched the anime for Naruto. All I know is that after the Zabuza arc, the tournament (which I already had a bad relationship with at this point) felt like such a let down and it was standard shonen, when I had been thinking Naruto might be able to be a bit more. Seems like a foolish thought now...

To me, it would feel a little disappointing if Luffy's first legitimate threat in the New World was some recently introduced character instead of an established villain. Not too mention the last of the original Warlords (from when the series started) to be dealt with in some way. I could see Luffy kind of getting serious against Jesus, and I'd be okay with that, but I don't think that fight's going to happen for reasons I've gone into at length elsewhere.

Wow, you're the first person to ever dislike the Dark Tournament that I've seen. That for me, is one of the best arcs in any anime I've ever seen. Your dislike for tourney arcs is still quite interesting though.

Nex 0

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Wow, you're the first person to ever dislike the Dark Tournament that I've seen. That for me, is one of the best arcs in any anime I've ever seen. Your dislike for tourney arcs is still quite interesting though.

The Dark Tournament had its moments, some that were absolutely amazing, without question, but on the whole I felt like it drastically changed what the series was up to that point, and for me that change was what was so disappointing. (The same can be said for all the other series I listed. Especially Shaman King. Now there was a series that loooooooved. Then…well, you know.)

Of course everything that came after The Dark Tournament still makes me kind of believe that I am right.

Monkey King

@Nex:

If it lasts the length of Buggy's arc, then it's an arc, which I feel like it most certainly will.

I literally just re-read the Buggy arc, and even if it's that long it will be short lol.

Especially if we get a good number of chapters dedicated solely to the tournament. Plus, it should be fairly obvious that we're not going to deal with Doflamingo till its done, so, yes, it is its own arc.

Isn't it obvious that Oda is going to be cutting back and forth between "Scenes" throughout the arc? Lots will be happening as the tournament goes on.

Well let's see. Luffy has no idea about the fruit as far as Doflamingo knows.

I already explained this to you but here goes again.
Luffy is on a highly populated island that Donflamingo basically still controls de facto. Donflamingo organizes a huge event with the fruit.
All you have to do is let nature take its course and Luffy will hear about it soon enough from some source, what with their being cities here and all, and all that comes with them.
This is really basic.

The tournament is registering contestants by the tiome they arrive on the island. They could have docked anywhere on the island, it's just coincidental they were near the colloseum.

Someone else also pointed out to you that Acacia is THE port town. And that the coast of the island is largely rocky and inacessible, to the point that Green Bit requires a bridge. If there's really only one entrance it makes sense.
Even if the colosseum was in another town it wouldn't matter. Word of mouth would be readily available for a huge event on an island that doesn't appear to be much bigger than Alabasta.

Doflamingo could have expected Luffy to hear about it from the town?
–Luffy learned about it the same time it was announced to the general public, and he barely made it in time to participate.

When was it announced to the general public?

That might have been the only place for them to dock.
–Oh really, then why isn't Doflamingo there waiting for them?

They have a hostage and he's trying to procure that hostage at presumably threat of death from Kaidou. Not to mention his resignation has brought a ton of Marines to the island, possibly even CP0 for the same reason, in resigning Donflamingo is a criminal once again by law.
Do you not grasp the basic plot of this arc?
Donflamingo owes the mafia big, and his cash is being held by the Strawhats/Law. Who have also made him a wanted man as part of the robbery of Donflamingo's shit.
Law has DF by the dick, the next stage of the little test of wills will be on Green Bit. Where some part of this scenario will be thrown up in the air.

–Well, he was confident enough in himself to go to Punk Hazard to take on the Straw Hats, Law, and the Marines all by himself.

People not on Punk Hazard:
-Admirals (until an ex-Admiral showed up and indeed Donfla ran away)
-CP0
-Kaidou agents
-Anyone who could contact any of the above.

fedcom

@RobbyBevard:

Its a shady underworld island. Lots of bad, strong people were ALREADY there. There was probably almost no travel actually involved for anyone.

But its been stated that people from various countries around the New World came just to get the devil fruit. I'm not buying the fact that they're simply supposed to be there.

In fact the way time and distance is being handled now is really bugging me. The HQ needs to send an admiral to an island, and so he can just get there in a matter of hours. News can easily be trasmitted all over the world from this terrifyingly dangerous ocean overnight.

And IIRC its only been one night since the Straw Hats left Saobody Archipelago?

Nex 0

@fedcom:

But its been stated that people from various countries around the New World came just to get the devil fruit. I'm not buying the fact that they're simply supposed to be there.

In fact the way time and distance is being handled now is really bugging me. The HQ needs to send an admiral to an island, and so he can just get there in a matter of hours. News can easily be trasmitted all over the world from this terrifyingly dangerous ocean overnight.

And IIRC its only been one night since the Straw Hats left Saobody Archipelago?

The events of Fishman Island all occurred in one day, then they stayed at least one, probably two nights. Then Punk Hazard happened all in one day, and one night passed on their way to Dressrosa.

So it's been anywhere from 2-4 days since they reunited.

Monkey King, I will get around to responding to you when I have a bit more time on my hands than I do currently.

fedcom

@Nex:

The events of Fishman Island all occurred in one day, then they stayed at least one, probably two nights. Then Punk Hazard happened all in one day, and one night passed on their way to Dressrosa.

So it's been anywhere from 2-4 days since they reunited.

Monkey King, I will get around to responding to you when I have a bit more time on my hands than I do currently.

Right, I forgot about the night they spent at Fishman Island. What makes you say its two night rather than one? There's still that "3 days till the tea party" thing going on

Robby

If ya'll won't accept "the island normally has some nasty big shots running around on it from all over"

then there's always

"Dofla announced the tournament a while ago, but only decided on/announced the particular prize when Luffy became a thing."

It's not a huge deal. (And when you consider the entire first half of the grand line only took a few weeks to cross, not counting parties and adventures which all only lasted a day or two each… Navigating fast when you have a proper log pose/vivre card is apparently not a huge deal if you're strong enough to deal with the natural phenomenoms of the ocean)

desa

Anyway in Punk Hazard he was still suppose to be a warlord and Vergo an Vice-admiral. So he technicly should have been supported by the marine and was going to fight worn-out fighter. The fact he asks why isn't Strawhats there is proof enough for me that he thought that the marine would have taken care of part of the job.

Nex 0

@fedcom:

Right, I forgot about the night they spent at Fishman Island. What makes you say its two night rather than one? There's still that "3 days till the tea party" thing going on

The day they spent shopping. They day after the fight with Hody and what-not. I can't remember if they stayed another night and then left, or if they left that day.

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@RobbyBevard:

If ya'll won't accept "the island normally has some nasty big shots running around on it from all over"

then there's always

"Dofla announced the tournament a while ago, but only decided on/announced the particular prize when Luffy became a thing."

It's not a huge deal. (And when you consider the entire first half of the grand line only took a few weeks to cross, not counting parties and adventures which all only lasted a day or two each…)

It took them a few months to cross the first half of the grandline. I don't remember who,but someone charted the time based on the phases of the moon, and it was a pretty decent amount.

And that doesn't work, as a lot of those people were coming because of the fruit. Thus the tournament was announced with the fruit, before Doflamingo even knew Luffy was alive, not to mention coming to Dressrosa. Especially since he had no way of knowing he would end up on Punk Hazard.

It's all just one gigantic coincidence. That works in his favor, so he ain't gonna complain. In fact no one will, but me.

Robby

And if Luffy had started out on his journey a single day later every single member of his crew would have been dead before he met them.

Series runs on coincidence.

desa

@Nex:

And that doesn't work, as a lot of those people were coming because of the fruit. Thus the tournament was announced with the fruit, before Doflamingo even knew Luffy was alive, not to mention coming to Dressrosa. Especially since he had no way of knowing he would end up on Punk Hazard.

It's all just one gigantic coincidence. That works in his favor, so he ain't gonna complain. In fact no one will, but me.

Dofla kept the fruit for quit some time and decide to give it to Diamente only after getting in touch with Luffy. It's clear to me he decided the prize based on Luffy. As for the call Doflamingo probably pass the whole day calling after his fiasco at punk hazard. It was is trump card and he used it.

fedcom

@RobbyBevard:

"Dofla announced the tournament a while ago, but only decided on/announced the particular prize when Luffy became a thing."

That makes sense, but I still dunno. The prize specifically was the attraction for a lot of people, which is why all those newcomers were participating.

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@RobbyBevard:

And if Luffy had started out on his journey a single day later every single member of his crew would have been dead before he met them.

Series runs on coincidence.

Well the thing is, this tournament was set up in response to Luffy and Law's team up. So its not just an example of the Straw Hats landing on an island in time for a major event.

Its not a big deal, I just don't like how the world can seem so much smaller sometimes, especially for the big shots. It annoyed me when Kuma was able to send the straw hats all over the world, but at least it took them three whole days to travel. Now you have Doflamingo just zipping across the seas without a care in the world.

Gizmo

Actually agree that it feels like a stretch that so many people were able to gather for a tournament for a devil fruit announced as a prize just a few hours before the tournament actually starts.

I can believe that all these people here are capable of traveling there quickly (New World islands probably aren't that far from each other. The Dressrosa to Punk Hazard time proved that. Especially if all these people know the way to Dressrosa and have Eternal Poses or something which would definitely shorten travel time). But just because it is explained, that doesn't mean it has to feel natural or not contrived. But what's done is done.

Densuke

How do we even know the announcement about the tournament was made hours ago?

It was yesterday in OP time that Doffy commented on having to change his plans, he could have made that announcement before or after resigning from his position, giving the participants an entire night and morning to get there.

Gizmo

@nodensuke:

How do we even know the announcement about the tournament was made hours ago?

It was yesterday in OP time that Doffy commented on having to change his plans, he could have made that announcement before or after resigning from his position, giving the participants an entire night and morning to get there.

That's still less than a day. But definitely would seem a lot less contrived if Doflamingo announced it the night before than in the morning.

Skykin

Travel times have always been a plot hole in One Piece. I don't know why you guys are complaining about it now.

NER

So.. I am the only one who thinks that the one in the ship making all those sounds is Monet? :ninja:

GreatLiver

It seems at least a bit more believable people would be able to get to Dressrosa quickly. Seems like the place would churn out a ton of eternal poses to keep the colosseum even more viable. It is weird, but the time frame of One Piece is often murky and has always seemed to move at a faster clip than one would expect. We never really got confirmation on whether Fishman Island happened the same day the crew got back together or what.

rickfox

@Nex:

The day they spent shopping. They day after the fight with Hody and what-not. I can't remember if they stayed another night and then left, or if they left that day.

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It took them a few months to cross the first half of the grandline. I don't remember who,but someone charted the time based on the phases of the moon, and it was a pretty decent amount.

And that doesn't work, as a lot of those people were coming because of the fruit. Thus the tournament was announced with the fruit, before Doflamingo even knew Luffy was alive, not to mention coming to Dressrosa. Especially since he had no way of knowing he would end up on Punk Hazard.

It's all just one gigantic coincidence. That works in his favor, so he ain't gonna complain. In fact no one will, but me.

according to this thoroughly calculation+time table,they may have spent more than a few months

http://bbs.opbbs.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=12795

unfortunately the content was written in different language

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@NER:

So.. I am the only one who thinks that the one in the ship making all those sounds is Monet? :ninja:

Monet? what makes you think that is her?

NER

@rickfox:

according to this thoroughly calculation+time table,they could spent more than a few months

http://bbs.opbbs.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=12795

unfortunately the content was written in different language

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Monet? what makes you think that is her?

my thoughts on that matters aren't based on any facts. :L I am just having a hard time believing that the faries are the one making noise, ya know, in the bar they stole all those stuff without anyone noticing, but again that might've happened because everyone was distracted by Fujitora and the stuff he did.. so I'm back to zero. :L

asm00200

Islands in the New World seems to be close to each other from what we've seen so far, so I don't think time is much of a problem. As for the whole fruit thing, it can be explained very easily:

The Doflamingo comment about changing his plan was a day ago.
Tournaments attracts a lot of strong people looking for prize/recognition/whatever.
Doflamingo is Joker, A.K.A. Lord of The Underground. –--> Brokers --> Pirates/Countries --> WMD in hand.

Did I miss anything!?

CCC

@NER:

So.. I am the only one who thinks that the one in the ship making all those sounds is Monet? :ninja:

No, you're not.

But the style of speech isn't hers.

EvoWarrior5

@Skykin:

Travel times have always been a plot hole in One Piece. I don't know why you guys are complaining about it now.

When were they ever plot holes?
Do you have some examples in which something couldnt be right?

Also, I looked at the site rick posted and saw this short table at the end which summarizes everything in short. Dont know what exactly it says though…

!

Big Emperor

@Nex:

Yu-Yu Hakusho, Naruto, Dragon Ball, HSD: Kenichi and Shaman King were all series that I loved that went downhill due to a tournament arc. Hell, I even enjoyed Fairy Tail until that terrible effing tournament.

Oh, gosh. The first 12 or so volumes of Shaman King were good enough to convince me to buy the whole series. I was not prepared for the endless random fighting that would follow…or the "death and near-death makes you stronger" that was clearly ripped from Dragonball...

Also, hooray, the poll got reopened or something so I can actually vote Not Dead.

psychickid

@EvoWarrior5:

When were they ever plot holes?
Do you have some examples in which something couldnt be right?

Also, I looked at the site rick posted and saw this short table at the end which summarizes everything in short. Dont know what exactly it says though…

! http://bbs.opbbs.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=12795 http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm26/haishengede/OP/NTime/Time.jpg

thats a compilation of the places the SHs went and the battles they participated in, basically to calculate the amount of time which passed. first column is destination, travelling time (in days), battles, recovery, highlights (unsure).;

Skykin

@EvoWarrior5:

When were they ever plot holes?
Do you have some examples in which something couldnt be right?

How about Mihawk traveling part of the East Blue, Paradise and New World in a matter of a couple days (if that) to present Shanks with Luffy's first bounty.

fedcom

@asm00200:

Islands in the New World seems to be close to each other from what we've seen so far, so I don't think time is much of a problem. As for the whole fruit thing, it can be explained very easily:

The Doflamingo comment about changing his plan was a day ago.

Tournaments attracts a lot of strong people looking for prize/recognition/whatever.

Doflamingo is Joker, A.K.A. Lord of The Underground. –--> Brokers --> Pirates/Countries --> WMD in hand.

Did I miss anything!?

Nah no one is concerned about that. Its pretty easy to see how Doflamingo was able to get a hold of the fruit.

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@rickfox:

according to this thoroughly calculation+time table,they may have spent more than a few months

http://bbs.opbbs.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=12795

unfortunately the content was written in different language

There seems to be way to much speculation on that page, can't say I like it

King Cannon

@EvoWarrior5:

When were they ever plot holes?
Do you have some examples in which something couldnt be right?

Also, I looked at the site rick posted and saw this short table at the end which summarizes everything in short. Dont know what exactly it says though…

! http://bbs.opbbs.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=12795 http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm26/haishengede/OP/NTime/Time.jpg

!

EvoWarrior5

Ah, King Cannon first off pls put the pics in spoiler tags. Saves space!

Secondly I wasn't talking about plotholes in general, but about plotholes related to time.
Somebody said time has often been a plothole in the story, but I do not see how.

Nice find on this one though! Never realised.

Jackermeister

@King:

http://i37.mangapanda.com/one-piece/66/one-piece-1696882.jpg
http://i20.mangapanda.com/one-piece/464/one-piece-1693667.jpg

The power a DF grants is a "curse". Sanji doesn't mention reading that you can't swim after eating one. So not really a plot hole. (Although it would be kinda weird if the book didn't mention that)

asm00200

@fedcom:

Nah no one is concerned about that. Its pretty easy to see how Doflamingo was able to get a hold of the fruit.

Heh, I was actually talking about why different countries know about the Flame Fruit.

Monkey King

@Nex:

Yu-Yu Hakusho, Naruto, Dragon Ball, HSD: Kenichi and Shaman King were all series that I loved that went downhill due to a tournament arc. Hell, I even enjoyed Fairy Tail until that terrible effing tournament.

Wait wait wait, when did Dragonball ever go down hill because of tournaments?
The only one I can think of is the Cell Games. The three Budokais before the Saiyens arrive are stone cold classics.

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@King:

http://i37.mangapanda.com/oe-piece/66/one-piece-1696882.jpg
http://i20.mangapanda.com/one-piece/464/one-piece-169367.jpg

Yeah uh, Sanji is specifically mentioning in the second page that he never paid attention to the curses of the ocean lol.

kouch_lee

@Monkey:

Wait wait wait, when did Dragonball ever go down hill because of tournaments?
The only one I can think of is the Cell Games. The three Budokais before the Saiyens arrive are stone cold classics.

Also, DB didn't go downhill after the tournament arcs. If anything, Dragon Ball got better after the first tournament (RR saga), and even better after the second tournament (King Piccolo saga). Third tournament was the pinnacle of DB, and then I agree it maybe lost a bit of its charm (but was still a kick-ass series).

Also, Yu-Yu Hakusho's best arc (by faaaar) is the Chapter Black saga, which was right after the Dark Tournament (which was pretty good in itself).

A tournament ain't an end game affair for a manga, if the author is talented enough. And Oda is indeed talented enough.