Yes! Robby's post absolutely said it all. I'd just like to add:
His maturity and restraint is the reason he didn't use haki. He's come a long way from brazenly challenging Mihawk in their first encounter. Now, he knows to read his opponent first. He wanted to point out to Monet that fear alone was enough to defeat her. She was completely frozen, rolling around in a puddle unable to control herself, because of Zoro's very aura. Is that an opponent worth brutally murdering?
It was a fight meant to mirror his first clash with Mihawk, who judged Zoro's strength level and ultimately chose the appropriate restraint. In fact, in this chapter Zoro was being the opposite of "sexist" - he showed Tashigi he had no qualms about hitting women, (He'd prefer not to, but will if he has to) and stood back to allow her to prove herself.
In doing so, he was reading how far she's come in 2 years, by the way. The whole chapter was less about Monet, less about "waaa sexist Zoro", and all about developing new tensions between Zoro and Tashigi when they eventually cross swords.
Chapter 687: Wild animal
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@nodensuke:
The one thing I keep coming back to ponder over is Sanji telling the G-5 that he'd choose death over kicking a woman, for some reason I get the feeling him telling them that is going to come back to bite him in the ass somewhere down the road.
It already did. Calipha beat the crap out of him because he wouldn't fight back against her.
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^^^Not really. A handicap is your own power being restricted in some way or another. Zoro threw absolutely everything he had at Mr. 1 and couldn't beat him. He had to evolve, become stronger, gain a greater understanding of swordsmanship to succeed. It was a weak side of him that grew and not so much a handicap that was
As for the Zoro holding back debate I'll only say this: even if Oda is trying to go for some "I won't cut weak people" thing, it's poorly implemented, out of character and out of nowhere. Like Mihawk, you say? The Mihawk who cut down 49 ships worth of people solely to kill his own boredom? Mihawk who faced Okamas utterly weak to him and sliced them down without batting an eyelid. Daz Bones got in his way and got cut down in an instant for it. The times that Zoro has mercilessly, unhesitatingly sliced up countless weak goons for no other reason than them attacking him first and being enemies are so many it would take an essay to recount them.
If we are all of a sudden meant to buy that Zoro will go easy on and let off some weak people, even though they are enemies and they attack him and his friends, that's a very awkward development that doesn't make much sense. He cut up soldiers in Neptune's palace. Might not have enjoyed it, but did it without hesitating, because that's how he's always been, despite them not even truly being enemies. Training with Mihawk didn't change his nature. He didn't inherit the "go easy on the other guy/handicap himself to emphasize the difference" trait from his master. That was something he did in his first fight ever. But it never stopped from slicing Cabaji right up, or from slicing any other enemy right up. Yet all of a sudden he dicks around against both Monet and Hyouzou. Oda for some reason thought it was a good idea to have Zoro do the same exact thing for two arcs in a row. And yes, I'm branding the Hyouzou situation as well a fiasco. It's out of character for Zoro. You can say that he's merely changed and become a truckload more arrogant which somehow leads to him, sometimes anyway, not want to hurt weaker people, but such a sudden, uncalled for change doesn't make sense either. If the idea is that he's become more like Mihawk, there is no reason to let those two weaklings off the hook when Mihawk didn't against such individuals as Daz Bones and the Okama. So though some of you might think Oda did no wrong, I'm not buying that argument. This whole trend of having Zoro awkwardly dick around just so we can drag the fights out a little longer isn't a good thing.
The way I see it, Zoro was just toying around with Hyouzou and Monet, the same way a lion can play with its prey before sinking its teeth in. Hyouzou and Monet are weaker than Zoro, but they surely aren't fodder like Neptune's soldiers or the human and fishman pirates.
He knows they're not on his level, but I don't see the harm in him wanting to see what they're capable of. Especially since he just got back from training with the world's greatest swordsman for two years and is probably itching for a good challenge. -
Y'all ruining an amazing chapter with your cries of sexism.
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@CCC:
"Every beast will bite a person eventually, if it has to" or whatever that bullshit is? Take the stupidly-thin veiling away from that, and you've got, "I don't want to slap a bitch, but if she gets out of line, then I will." Finally, Monet, after all her hype as this incredibly clever schemer/researcher/tactician and a terrifyingly overwhelmingly logia ability user, is trivialized down to the dirt. A legitimate threat? Not even as much as Zoro's pathetic FI opponent. All it took was a stare-down to give her the vapors. Welcome to the New World!
Oh sweet candy jesus, I love you for this! LMAO! I'm putting this in my signature.
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Chapters like these make me wonder if we ever get to see any non-sexist strong females. Let`s hope big moms crew fixes this.
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Unfortunately, I can't partake in this weeks chapter discussion because my power is out due to Hurricane Sandy(and I'm only on now because I'm at my grandparents house, and they have power). But I must say that that was a fantastically, orgasmically, magical chapter that I will reminisce about everyday for the rest of my life. Peace everybody, and have a good week.~
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@CCC:
"Every beast will bite a person eventually, if it has to" or whatever that bullshit is? Take the stupidly-thin veiling away from that, and you've got, "I don't want to slap a bitch, but if she gets out of line, then I will." Finally, Monet, after all her hype as this incredibly clever schemer/researcher/tactician and a terrifyingly overwhelmingly logia ability user, is trivialized down to the dirt. A legitimate threat? Not even as much as Zoro's pathetic FI opponent. All it took was a stare-down to give her the vapors. Welcome to the New World![/[/COLOR]QUOTE]
Oh sweet candy jesus, I love you for this! LMAO! I'm putting this in my signature.That was all fan hype. It's not overwhelming if she straight up tells two different people "I'm weaker than you." We don't even really know what she does for CC besides guard him and his research and works for Doflamingo.She's smart, but she aint no genius.
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HAHAH great stuff.
Seriously it wasn't a bad chapter and a nice bit of character development for Zoro and Tashigi. Noticed that Zoro never said he won't attack women, just that there are things he doesn't like to cut and indeed proved it near the end even if he had to be pushed a little. But I felt he was in character the whole chapter, letting Tashigi fight and not stepping into help until it really looked like she'll lose. Truth be told I think he was trying to teach her a bit more about swordsman's pride then anything.
But what did it for me was how Monet was defeated, with Zoro turning her observation back at her. She over-analyzed, got cocky and let her guard down. Really I don't think Zoro was holding back but rather trying to study her, Tashigi just happen to interrupt in the middle of this. I'll admit I would've liked to see Tashigi put up more of a fight though but you gotta admire her conviction.
No, I don't think this chapter was sexist, we've see that all the character battle differently time and again. This is just fan perception being blown out of the water as usual. But its a forum, so meh.
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This post is deleted!
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@nodensuke:
The one thing I keep coming back to ponder over is Sanji telling the G-5 that he'd choose death over kicking a woman, for some reason I get the feeling him telling them that is going to come back to bite him in the ass somewhere down the road.
What people have to realize is that the woman has to be stronger than Sanji or near him in order for it to matter.
Someone said 50% of the population could kill Sanji. Not true. He showed against Califa that while not attacking he can still defend himself without hurting her. And i bet there aren't that many woman in the world stronger than her.
Marines that could bite Sanji in the ass later on? Hmm…. I really can't think of a female marine that is strong enough to face Sanji and be able to hurt him. Again he can defend himself. Zoro showed this chapter that Tashigi isn't near his league. So if Sanji is anywhere near Zoro's league, then that eliminates her. Who else is a female marine? The old grandma. prolly retired by now, if not I doubt they ever fight.
That leaves what Smokers woman, and the giant woman. I can see smokers woman (hina, right?) being at Sanji's level, since I see her being at/around Smokers level. And I see him around monster trio's level.
SO maybe at some point it will be
1. Luffy vs. Smoker
2. Sanji vs. Hina
3. Zoro vs. Tashigi (she needs to up her game big time) -
Oda obviously made his series suprumely masculine. Women are only used for support or cheesecake. Look at Nami and Robin, they're hardly strong fighters. They use tricks and strategy in order to subdue their enemies. The only woman who really got messed up as if she were a man was Alvida, but even then she was ugly as sin. However when she made her return being thin and beautiful, she got barely touched and still so. Boa Hancock is the only character in the series who can go toe-to-toe like one of the men, but since she's a woman, she TOO has been untouched. Ever since the start Oda has universally telegraphed that women in the One Piece world are delicate, fragile flowers that nobody but other delicate fragile flowers should touch. So you know that whole thing between Kuina and Zoro? Yeah its bullsh**. It meant absolutely nothing, but to establish in Zoro's eyes that what Kuina said was right.
Tashigi's role is obviously nothing more than a Sword enthusiat who the other crew members can pine over cause of her Moe-ness. Poor girl will never catch a break cause she has boobs.
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What people have to realize is that the woman has to be stronger than Sanji or near him in order for it to matter.
Someone said 50% of the population could kill Sanji. Not true. He showed against Califa that while not attacking he can still defend himself without hurting her. And i bet there aren't that many woman in the world stronger than her.
Marines that could bite Sanji in the ass later on? Hmm…. I really can't think of a female marine that is strong enough to face Sanji and be able to hurt him. Again he can defend himself. Zoro showed this chapter that Tashigi isn't near his league. So if Sanji is anywhere near Zoro's league, then that eliminates her. Who else is a female marine? The old grandma. prolly retired by now, if not I doubt they ever fight.
**That leaves what Smokers woman, and the giant woman. I can see smokers woman (hina, right?) being at Sanji's level, since I see her being at/around Smokers level. And I see him around monster trio's level.
SO maybe at some point it will be
1. Luffy vs. Smoker
2. Sanji vs. Hina
3. Zoro vs. Tashigi (she needs to up her game big time)**This is pretty much what I was going for, but too lazy to type/put much more thought into it.
Hina fits the bill quite nicely.It just doesn't sit well with me having him telling an entire marine unit that he'd rather die than kick a woman and not have some consequences somewhere down the line.
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One thing I disliked in this chapter was her Snowball bunnies.
Sad to see there were inanimate is all forms. They basically just looked like bunnies. Wanted to see them like BOUNCE or HOP off the ground in some way. Otherwise why not make them be Snow CHIC's instead. you know being she is a harpy. Baby chics would make more sense than bunnies.
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@nodensuke:
This is pretty much what I was going for, but too lazy to type/put much more thought into it.
Hina fits the bill, there's really only been 2 other female marines introduced - One is probably retired, and the other is a giant.It just doesn't sit well with me having him telling an entire marine unit that he'd rather die than kick a woman and not have some consequences somewhere down the line.
Too bad Sanji didn't go to Impel Down with Luffy.
Would have found it amusing to see him fight that Dominatrix girl. He would be getting beat by her and they both would be experiencing ecstasy, lol
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Oda obviously made his series suprumely masculine. Women are only used for support or cheesecake. Look at Nami and Robin, they're hardly strong fighters. They use tricks and strategy in order to subdue their enemies. The only woman who really got messed up as if she were a man was Alvida, but even then she was ugly as sin. However when she made her return being thin and beautiful, she got barely touched and still so. Boa Hancock is the only character in the series who can go toe-to-toe like one of the men, but since she's a woman, she TOO has been untouched. Ever since the start Oda has universally telegraphed that women in the One Piece world are delicate, fragile flowers that nobody but other delicate fragile flowers should touch. So you know that whole thing between Kuina and Zoro? Yeah its bullsh**. It meant absolutely nothing, but to establish in Zoro's eyes that what Kuina said was right.
Tashigi's role is obviously nothing more than a Sword enthusiat who the other crew members can pine over cause of her Moe-ness. Poor girl will never catch a break cause she has boobs.
Then why the hell did Zoro cut Monet in this very chapter and specifically state that he didn't attack Tashigi because she looked like Kuina?
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Oda obviously made his series suprumely masculine. Women are only used for support or cheesecake. Look at Nami and Robin, they're hardly strong fighters. They use tricks and strategy in order to subdue their enemies. The only woman who really got messed up as if she were a man was Alvida, but even then she was ugly as sin. However when she made her return being thin and beautiful, she got barely touched and still so. Boa Hancock is the only character in the series who can go toe-to-toe like one of the men, but since she's a woman, she TOO has been untouched. Ever since the start Oda has universally telegraphed that women in the One Piece world are delicate, fragile flowers that nobody but other delicate fragile flowers should touch. So you know that whole thing between Kuina and Zoro? Yeah its bullsh**. It meant absolutely nothing, but to establish in Zoro's eyes that what Kuina said was right.
Tashigi's role is obviously nothing more than a Sword enthusiat who the other crew members can pine over cause of her Moe-ness. Poor girl will never catch a break cause she has boobs.
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Oda obviously made his series suprumely masculine. Women are only used for support or cheesecake. Look at Nami and Robin, they're hardly strong fighters. They use tricks and strategy in order to subdue their enemies. The only woman who really got messed up as if she were a man was Alvida, but even then she was ugly as sin. However when she made her return being thin and beautiful, she got barely touched and still so. Boa Hancock is the only character in the series who can go toe-to-toe like one of the men, but since she's a woman, she TOO has been untouched. Ever since the start Oda has universally telegraphed that women in the One Piece world are delicate, fragile flowers that nobody but other delicate fragile flowers should touch. So you know that whole thing between Kuina and Zoro? Yeah its bullsh**. It meant absolutely nothing, but to establish in Zoro's eyes that what Kuina said was right.
Tashigi's role is obviously nothing more than a Sword enthusiat who the other crew members can pine over cause of her Moe-ness. Poor girl will never catch a break cause she has boobs.
Oda has had woman beat up bad before, not counting ugly ones. But they are usually beat up by other good looking woman. That's how things are. It's not looked at good for a guy to beat up a girl regardless fantasy or not. At least not a good guy i mean. Bad guys do it all the time. Hell all it takes to make a bad guy be super hated is have him beat up a woman. Think of CP9 and how he treated Robin. We all wanted him dead.
All this chapter showed was that Zoro was like 99% of males in civilized countries. You are raised to not hit woman. BUT if your life depends on it or others, you will not hold back. Zoro had no reason to hurt or kill Monet up to this point. He could easily stall her and do what his job was. BUT in the end when it came down to keeping Tashigi alive and the very end he was willing to take her down. Tashigi obviously cut in and took the last blow because as I said before "woman beating woman" is acceptable in fiction, whereas males beating a woman is frowned upon.
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I still don't get how Tashigi is ever going to have even a 1% chance against Zoro. She has never been in his league and this chapter made it seem like he furthered that gap even more.
AND lets not forget that he showed how insane he was using only 1 sword. So far he has always been at his strongest with 3 swords. He made a New World Logia shit their pants with only 1 sword.
Looking back the first time he beat her he used only 2 swords. he has never gone full out in her view or against her ever. How are we to ever expect them to be competition.
Same goes for Koby and Helmeppo.
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To put it much simpler, Oda's just continuing a running gag where Tashigi thinks Zoro won't cut women. It highlights her insecurity and his frustration at appearing weak to her, more than anything.
"If you hadn't just cut her, I would have."
"Y-you liar! You say that after I cut her already!"
"You didn't have to."Their whole relationship is built around misunderstanding, it's great.
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I swear, the word sexist is so overused on this forum that it might as well have lost all meaning.
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I hope Zoro eventually awakens Haoshoku haki. It suits him perfectly. Not right now but later in the story. Rayleigh was Rogers first mate and he mastered Haoshoku so its only fitting that Zoro does the same.
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To put it much simpler, Oda's just continuing a running gag where Tashigi thinks Zoro won't cut women. It highlights her insecurity and his frustration at appearing weak to her, more than anything.
"If you hadn't just cut her, I would have."
"Y-you liar! You say that after I cut her already!"
"You didn't have to."Their whole relationship is built around misunderstanding, it's great.
The sad thing is that it continues to make Tashigi seem weaker and until she overcomes that feeling that Kuina overcame because of Zoro, Tashigi will never grow as a swordsman.
She believes she is weaker because she is a woman, and thus she is.
If this is Oda's intent or not, I don't know. But at some point she has to stop thinking that Zoro or other men are looking down at her.
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I swear, the word sexist is so overused on this forum that it might as well have lost all meaning.
This is also a forum that discusses how the Straw hats have no moral values as pirates and how they would take in psychopaths and even children into their crew. BUT would never ever hit women.
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This is also a forum that discusses how the Straw hats have no moral values as pirates and how they would take in psychopaths and even children into their crew. BUT would never ever hit women.
Even though they're pirates, the crew still has moral values.
If they didn't, they wouldn't give a damn about the lives of the drugged children and the G-5 marines. -
I thought Zoro killed her. Nice chapter. Tashigi used that "sol" move though, what was that about? I don't think she has a devil fruit. Is that a manifestation of haki?
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I thought Zoro killed her. Nice chapter. Tashigi used that "sol" move though, what was that about? I don't think she has a devil fruit. Is that a manifestation of haki?
Bad translation of Soru.
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Sorry not gonna add to the discussion much…but personally this whole arc feels like a bizzaro world One Piece...everything is just so weird. Facial expressions, character interactions, pacing...
I like it.
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@Sonic:
Bad translation of Soru.
Ah, okay. Yeah I was wondering because it looked kind of like a beam of light but Kizaru already has that fruit. How can the translators not get that down?
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The sad thing is that it continues to make Tashigi seem weaker and until she overcomes that feeling that Kuina overcame because of Zoro, Tashigi will never grow as a swordsman.
She believes she is weaker because she is a woman, and thus she is.
If this is Oda's intent or not, I don't know. But at some point she has to stop thinking that Zoro or other men are looking down at her.
True dat. She still needs to work on her confidence. Until then she won't close the gap between herself and Zoro. She even let herself get distracted by their conversation. If she wasn't so fixated on her assumptions about Zoro's character she would have been better off. But even then she's a very different type of swordsman than Zoro, so I can't really see her catching up especially since he trained like crazy before the time skip, and trained even crazier during. That's a crap ton of work to make up on her own, when she actually has a job to do on top of that. Granted while going rogue with Smoker she obviously picked up some stuff. Still, until I see her bench pressing a house over her head, I can't see her catching up to him. She will probably be about a Brook Level swordsman since she's not strength based. Highly skilled, just not a powerhouse.
Nami better watch out for her shoulders/back. She's the last adult woman to have her's intact this arc lol.
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@RobbyBevard:
I liked it. Some cool visuals, and while Tashigi didn't excel or win the fight on her own, she had a couple moments.
Zoro saw his opponent as weak and didn't need to go all out. HE DIDN'T PUT HIS BANDANA ON. Should have realized that last chapter.
Sex comes into it some, but the entire point of Sanji's scene, AND Tashigi's, AND Zoro's dialogue, was to say it wasn't about that. Zoro doesn't care to fight women, but that wasn't what held him back. That was explicitly said several times by a couple characters, including Zoro himself.
It was entirely that he was leagues stronger than her. Its the same weird standard that surrounds the "next nakama" crowd. "Monet is a girl so I want her to join!" isn't too far off from "Monet is a girl so Zoro didn't have to try very hard!" If Monet had been an ugly weird dude with the exact same personality and abilities that poisons kids and turns into a big toothed shoulder biting monster, and is all evil and stuff, not only would nobody be wanting her to join, but they wouldn't have a problem here either. (Well, there are the people that wanted Caribou to join…) Also, even with icepicks and a steel-wing move, she wasn't really a sword-user.
Zoro cut himself to give a handicap against Cabaji all the way back at the start of the series. Had a crippling Mihawk slash against Hachi. Sliced his own legs in Little garden. Usopp tied to his arm during Enies Lobby. Had less than three swords during thriller bark. Kuma damage during Sabondy. Still with Kuma damage against those baboons on Mihawk's island. Fought a fishman underwater and one shotted him.
Really I think Mr. 1 and Ryuma is pretty much the only times he's gone all out, (Mihawk aside) and he was handicapped in odd ways in those fights too.
Zoro is ALWAYS handicapped, and always in a bad condition. But he also gauges his opponents and fights them at their level, if he's in full health and way ahead of them, he holds back. He didn't go all out at Fishman Island, and he didn't go all out here. Its back to the start of the series question of not "how will they survive this" but "Just how strong are these guys?"
Remember who he just spent two years training under. Mr. "I'm going to stop all three of your swords with the smallest pocket knife I have because it's the fairest thing I can do, sorry I don't have anything smaller." You don't use a canon to hunt rabbits, you use what's appropriate to the situation.
Zoro saw Monet as a threat to the weaker people who were escaping... but didn't see much threat in her to him. He traded a few testing blows and saw he was stronger and faster than her and knew he could one shot her and utterly destroy her, (and he proved his point, even without using Haki on her) and there was no need to go all out.
That's exactly the same kind of restraint Mihawk showed when that little ant in the east blue challenged him. Tashigi said she wanted to fight Monet, so Zoro let her. (And he probably gauged that she could probably meet the challenge.) Same way Luffy let Zoro fight Mihawk.
If Zoro had a pocket knife on him he might have played around a bit more and the blatant similarity might have been more obvious. Tashigi is being shown that there's an entire monstrous league ahead of her and she has to try harder to catch up.
Ahhhh I love when I don't need to write out my thoughts because someone else already did it for me.
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Following that reasoning Zoro should never go wild against the fodder again, because they are also weak you know and not worth of his time.
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When monet was split to two, I just thought, she's done for.. And what a cold killer, zorro.
I feel glad though, when knowing that she's okay, and the whole thing was just a 'shock theraphy'.
Zorro won't cut a woman, unless there's no other way.. And the fact that she's far below his level.
I think the fake cut was the best end to monet. I can't think a better end than that..
'intimidation and the feel of near dead'.. The effective way to defeat monet.
Zoro is different with sanji.. If it were sanji, he would have died at this moment. -
Best chapter of Punk Hazard for me. Seriously, what's with the ''sexism'' talk? Bullshit, I say.
Zoro doesn't want to fight against weak, but will do so if they don't understand to leave while they can.
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i made that slash spread my desktop background.
Bravo oda, that was great. Go zoro!
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I hope Vergo vs. smoker is resolved next before anything else.
waiting for Smoker to shine for quite a while. -
QUOTE=Baldulf;2730449]Following that reasoning Zoro should never go wild against the fodder again, because they are also weak you know and not worth of his time.
There's different cases
there's the "don't get in my way!" "blabla" SLASH! "see, i've warn u"
Then the "don't challenge me.. U're wasting my time" HIAATT! SLASH! "urghh..i actually don't want to get this far"
That and the fact that zorro also think that women are weaker than man, so it's better to stay out of the way.also the term wild animal means that zoro wouldn't hurt someone far weaker than him unless he has to, being cornered, being pissed off or to save someone precious to him.
In tashigi's case it's abt, "let's see how good has this girl has become" then "aww, she's still no good, look like i'll have to finish the enemy myself" -
If this is Oda's intent or not, I don't know. But at some point she has to stop thinking that Zoro or other men are looking down at her.
Gee, that almost sounds like potential character development. You know, the kind that could easily take place in a very patriarchal country the crew might visit soon.
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QUOTE=Baldulf;2730449]Following that reasoning Zoro should never go wild against the fodder again, because they are also weak you know and not worth of his time.
There's different cases
there's the "don't get in my way!" "blabla" SLASH! "see, i've warn u"
Then the "don't challenge me.. U're wasting my time" HIAATT! SLASH! "urghh..i actually don't want to get this far"
That and the fact that zorro also think that women are weaker than man, so it's better to stay out of the way.
WOW….....Just WOW, Zoro never once said anything like " women are weaker than man" , it was tashigi who took it the wrong way , zoro didn't want to fight her cuz of her face looking exactly like kuina but misunderstood that and thought that zoro think " women are weaker than men " and in this chapter it was tashigi who thought that but zoro never once said anything . -
lolwut
people that actually matter and have some individual importance in the series.
You know what would be more bullshit, that Tashigi just beat her and decided not to kill her, forgetting about her and letting her escape.
They are enemies, and if that happened that would be the greatest bullshit of all.You heard me. Almost nobody dies in shonen series. Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, One Piece, Toriko etc. etc. If you don't think it's true you're deluding yourself.
People take hits upon hits upon hits, and, should be dead–but they turn out not to be. The people that die usually tend to die in flashbacks, or, die and advance the plot in a drastic way.
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Now where is that crowd who says that Mihawk can't use haki?
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I think Tashigi would lose to the baboons at Mihawk's castle.
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@nodensuke:
I think Tashigi would lose to the Baboons at Mihawk's castle.
I think so too. Yet a huge crowd of people still think Mihawk can't use haki.
Yes. So let's not summon them, please?
No, TODAY we make a stand. I'd like to see their arguments after this week's chapter -.-
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Well, it’s rough after this chapter, but next time Zoro fights, we’ll learn that he’s actually been trained in “Hawkie.”
It’s not the same thing.
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^ Wow lol you sir deserve a cookie
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Well, it’s rough after this chapter, but next time Zoro fights, we’ll learn that he’s actually been trained in “Hawkie.”
It’s not the same thing.
So Mihawk is Canadian?
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The strawhats have been basically curbstomping everything in their path so far. All we've seen are a couple of new skills but nothing substanstial that is a good marker for how powerful they really are. There hasn't been a real throwdown yet and I don't really think the fight with Hody counts.
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Yeah. Monet's a crazy bitch.
But I feel like this character isn't done for yet…since her development has been a bit too fast....
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So if Monet was a guy, and Zoro treated him the same way, it would be totally acceptable?
Yes. Thus, Zoro is not sexist.
@RobbyBevard:
[hide]I liked it. Some cool visuals, and while Tashigi didn't excel or win the fight on her own, she had a couple moments.
Zoro saw his opponent as weak and didn't need to go all out. HE DIDN'T PUT HIS BANDANA ON. Should have realized that last chapter.
Sex comes into it some, but the entire point of Sanji's scene, AND Tashigi's, AND Zoro's dialogue, was to say it wasn't about that. Zoro doesn't care to fight women, but that wasn't what held him back. That was explicitly said several times by a couple characters, including Zoro himself.
It was entirely that he was leagues stronger than her. Its the same weird standard that surrounds the "next nakama" crowd. "Monet is a girl so I want her to join!" isn't too far off from "Monet is a girl so Zoro didn't have to try very hard!" If Monet had been an ugly weird dude with the exact same personality and abilities that poisons kids and turns into a big toothed shoulder biting monster, and is all evil and stuff, not only would nobody be wanting her to join, but they wouldn't have a problem here either. (Well, there are the people that wanted Caribou to join…) Also, even with icepicks and a steel-wing move, she wasn't really a sword-user.
Zoro cut himself to give a handicap against Cabaji all the way back at the start of the series. Had a crippling Mihawk slash against Hachi. Sliced his own legs in Little garden. Usopp tied to his arm during Enies Lobby. Had less than three swords during thriller bark. Kuma damage during Sabondy. Still with Kuma damage against those baboons on Mihawk's island. Fought a fishman underwater and one shotted him.
Really I think Mr. 1 and Ryuma is pretty much the only times he's gone all out, (Mihawk aside) and he was handicapped in odd ways in those fights too.
Zoro is ALWAYS handicapped, and always in a bad condition. But he also gauges his opponents and fights them at their level, if he's in full health and way ahead of them, he holds back. He didn't go all out at Fishman Island, and he didn't go all out here. Its back to the start of the series question of not "how will they survive this" but "Just how strong are these guys?"
Remember who he just spent two years training under. Mr. "I'm going to stop all three of your swords with the smallest pocket knife I have because it's the fairest thing I can do, sorry I don't have anything smaller." You don't use a canon to hunt rabbits, you use what's appropriate to the situation.
Zoro saw Monet as a threat to the weaker people who were escaping... but didn't see much threat in her to him. He traded a few testing blows and saw he was stronger and faster than her and knew he could one shot her and utterly destroy her, (and he proved his point, even without using Haki on her) and there was no need to go all out.
That's exactly the same kind of restraint Mihawk showed when that little ant in the east blue challenged him. Tashigi said she wanted to fight Monet, so Zoro let her. (And he probably gauged that she could probably meet the challenge.) Same way Luffy let Zoro fight Mihawk.
If Zoro had a pocket knife on him he might have played around a bit more and the blatant similarity might have been more obvious. Tashigi is being shown that there's an entire monstrous league ahead of her and she has to try harder to catch up.[/hide]
I HATE this post. And all you people who kiss its author's ass.
Reason: 1. It's all correct, and i agree with the POV. 2. It's kind of boring, really. The only insightful analogy is that Zoro is pulling a Mihawk, completely outclassing his opponent. 3. I'm jelly. 4. I'm pissed off at this chapter for no reasonable explanation.