wow….ok, here is my two cents, 1st= zoro isn't sexist. zoro has just spent two years with the best swordsman in the world training under him. this is the same swordsman that vsed zoro with a fruit knife because zoro was waaaay below his level and insisted on fighting him. I think that after 2 years he learned some of mihawk's values one of which seems to be "don't destory weak people just because you can" (a fairly good value). This is now the second time i've seen him give a much much weaker enemy a chance to back down after the time skip, first with Hyozou and now with Monet, this has nothing to do with monet being a lady. this has to do with a swordsman's values. Don't just scream sexist and be disapointed with the chapter because you dont understand, go back and read the chaper again after reading this post, it might make more sense
2nd= that wasn't CoC, that was zoro screwing with poor monet's mind. he cut her so fast and so precisly after only just defending her attacks that she KNEW he was a different level to her and that he could beat her any time. The small cut was his way of showing her that she had underestimated him, that scared monet absolutly shitless, so she flinched and he cut her right down the middle. It was a psychological defeat, that was fear not CoC, i believe that was just zoro being a badass again, defeating someone with fear is pretty badass if you ask me.
Chapter 687: Wild animal
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Thanks, i don't know why but i had the feeling the chapter would be out today
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Wow, that's super early.
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Being indifferent just because an enemy isn't a threat to your person is such an assholish thing to do.
He could've done away with her instantly yet through sheer arrogance he gives her chance after chance to hurt the people around him.
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See, wolfwood gets it. Good to know I'm not the only one. :D
And I agree on the asshole part.
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To be honest, I really don't understand those people, who didn't like the chapter.
What is the REAL problem with it?This is how I see it:
1. Tashigi:
She was mad at Zorro (and she is still), because she thinks that Zoro doesn't take the battle seriously, because Monet is a girl.
She was very wrong and Zoro proves her that she can easily cut Monet with Haki anytime he wants.
Tashigi thought that Zoro doesn't think highly of a female swordfighter…
Zoro proved her wrong, when he gave her the chance to finish of Monet. After the attack he even gave a complient to her.
Tashigi became mad again and thought that Zoro just kidding with her.
That wasn't the case.
Zoro just doesn't have to prove anything to Tashigi.
He just acts as he likes it.
Like Mihawk.
2. Monet:
She was cautious till now, but suddenly she thought that a warrior of Zoro's caliber could have such trivial weakness as "Doesn't want to hit women".
She is a woman, and as girl she underestimated Zoro too much. She thought Zoro as a typical man, who doesnt't think much of females.
That was a miscalculation from her point of view.
Zoro knew that Monet is no match for his abilites. She was annoying, because her only purpose was to stall him. Zoro hates those people who don't have any real will to fight. That's why doesn't care about Monet. Monet got the wrong idea from that:
She thought "he is not so powerful after all".
But that doesn't mean that she can win againt him.
Zoro made her realize that he could finish her anytime he wanted, because she didn't take seriously the battle before.
He was playing with her.
3. Zoro:
This chapter showed that his power has grown to new heights.
As Mihawk, he won't bother himself too much weaklings (be as man or woman), he analyzes them and deals them as he see fit.
If you have courage to face Zoro, then act as you mean it. If you don't do that, then Zoro just be pissed.
Zoro only accepts a real challenge.So the chapter was just fine.
Tashigi is not a bad warrior, but she thinks too much about her gender and her role as a female swordman.
These useless thoughts makes her weak.
Zoro wanted to show her that, but she didn't understand a thing.
Monet thought that being a woman could be enough against a man.
Zoro proved her wrong.
I think Zoro really wants Tashigi to be a worthy opponent (because of Kuina),but he knows that she is way too weak for him as she is now. That's why he wanted to show her a different way of thinking.
A way of thinking he learnt form Mihawk. -
It would've been way better if they really fought Monet togheter, but instead of letting Monet almost kill Tashigi, Zoro could just've defended her, yelling "you are getting too many openings!", lecturing her, while she could fight Monet like that. Then Monet could say something, underestimating Zoro, then Zoro would just show he could hurt her and the chapter could've ended like it did.
Zoro would be badass without begin a jerk.
Still, this was good. Not the best outcome, though. -
ALREADY?
[/flies into the sun and hits the moon instead]
<3 -
Women. He's cut down fodder without batting an eye. Difference is though as Sanji said, Zoro isn't willing to die and will harm her if he has to. It doesn't explain why he couldn't say cut her ice picks into shreds like Hyouzou's swords, or y'know, just cut her without killing her, but eh.
It was nice though for Tashigi to call him out on it and her banter with Zoro was pretty funny.
Kinda lame that Tashigi once again "lost", but Monet looked really cool throughout the fight, with her monster form, dodging attacks etc. Pretty brutal.
And yes, despite the "cop out" I really liked the two page spread with Zoro cutting her in half. It was an effective way for a guy to "harm" a girl without actually harming a girl. At least more effective than scaring her with bugs and a fake 10 pound hammer.P.S. Caribou is the worst.
I think along the same lines. Most of the reaction seem like classic hype backlash to me, given Monet's hype these past few chapters and the hopes of Tashigi finally getting a decent fight. It was a compromising solution, but as others have said he mostly hit women with the back of his swords or used other non-lethal ways. Still, it is disappointing to see Monet go down so easily, yet I hope she will do something again before this arc ends. Maybe she will try to attack weaker enemies now?
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The more I think about the chapter, the less satisfying it was, dern.
@CCC:Oh, really, would he have taken down Monet if it came down to the wire? "Every beast will bite a person eventually, if it has to" or whatever that bullshit is? Take the stupidly-thin veiling away from that, and you've got, "I don't want to slap a bitch, but if she gets out of line, then I will."
So that's why I was feeling mildly uncomfortable at the dialogue; it did feel a bit like that. That and the "are you satisfied now?" and the sitting down for Tashigi to fight first, it's lazy badass on the surface but all it was was Zoro dicking around avoiding attacking a threat and being vaguely smug about his reasons, until he actually had to do something. It was like Oda tried to write a chapter about fighting a woman not being a big deal, by making it a big deal, was a bit weird.
Monet was still fun though.
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…mygod.
I hope this isn't the last we see of Monet... -
Whoa! Didn't expect a chapter this early!
Zoro is THE MAN! And Tashigi is THE WO-MAN! lol XDD >.>
I'm glad that Tashigi was able to hold her own against Monet and she even delivered the final blow. Nice!
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The more I think about the chapter, the less satisfying it was, dern.
So that's why I was feeling mildly uncomfortable at the dialogue; it did feel a bit like that. That and the "are you satisfied now?" and the sitting down for Tashigi to fight first, it's lazy badass on the surface but all it was was Zoro dicking around avoiding attacking a threat and being vaguely smug about his reasons, until he actually had to do something. It was like Oda tried to write a chapter about fighting a woman not being a big deal, by making it a big deal, was a bit weird.
Monet was still fun though.
I think you just nailed. Oda might've tried to make a "Zoro can fight a woman anytime he wants" chapter, and it backfired by making it so. . .depending on that same idea. Also, the vagueness doesn't help one bit.
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Yeah, but that's my point. Monet threatened Robin, Nami and Chopper. To be honest, I don't even know how to interpret his actions here. Does him slashing Monet mean the girls were wrong in their assumption? Zoro never says either way…
She surprised him, she was very quick and agile. But he still intercepted her, it also allowed Nami and Robin to show their
skills. But as blackness662 points out I think it really comes down to them having a 'lack of will to fight'.! @blackness662:
! > To be honest, I really don't understand those people, who didn't like the chapter.
What is the REAL problem with it?This is how I see it:
1. Tashigi:
She was mad at Zorro (and she is still), because she thinks that Zoro doesn't take the battle seriously, because Monet is a girl.
She was very wrong and Zoro proves her that she can easily cut Monet with Haki anytime he wants.
Tashigi thought that Zoro doesn't think highly of a female swordfighter…
Zoro proved her wrong, when he gave her the chance to finish of Monet. After the attack he even gave a complient to her.
Tashigi became mad again and thought that Zoro just kidding with her.
That wasn't the case.
Zoro just doesn't have to prove anything to Tashigi.
He just acts as he likes it.
Like Mihawk.
2. Monet:
She was cautious till now, but suddenly she thought that a warrior of Zoro's caliber could have such trivial weakness as "Doesn't want to hit women".
She is a woman, and as girl she underestimated Zoro too much. She thought Zoro as a typical man, who doesnt't think much of females.
That was a miscalculation from her point of view.
Zoro knew that Monet is no match for his abilites. She was annoying, because her only purpose was to stall him. Zoro hates those people who don't have any real will to fight. That's why doesn't care about Monet. Monet got the wrong idea from that:
She thought "he is not so powerful after all".
But that doesn't mean that she can win againt him.
Zoro made her realize that he could finish her anytime he wanted, because she didn't take seriously the battle before.
He was playing with her.
3. Zoro:
This chapter showed that his power has grown to new heights.
As Mihawk, he won't bother himself too much weaklings (be as man or woman), he analyzes them and deals them as he see fit.
If you have courage to face Zoro, then act as you mean it. If you don't do that, then Zoro just be pissed.
Zoro only accepts a real challenge.So the chapter was just fine.
Tashigi is not a bad warrior, but she thinks too much about her gender and her role as a female swordman.
These useless thoughts makes her weak.
Zoro wanted to show her that, but she didn't understand a thing.
Monet thought that being a woman could be enough against a man.
Zoro proved her wrong.
I think Zoro really wants Tashigi to be a worthy opponent (because of Kuina),but he knows that she is way too weak for him as she is now. That's why he wanted to show her a different way of thinking.
A way of thinking he learnt form Mihawk. -
…mygod.
I hope this isn't the last we see of Monet...I'm sure she'll be fine. After seeing that snow bunny attack, I'm really expecting to see a cover page of her making giant snow bunnies in the future.
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Zoro <3<3<3<3<3<3
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Loving that >:I Face Tashigi made at Zoro. Pretty entertaining Chapter, looking forward to next week. :D
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well even though many ppl complain about zoros way of handleing things but to be honest Monet wasnt a sword user (well her fighting style doesnt have sword involved) so to zoro she was not even worth his time. i dont think it was a matter of man/woman but i took it as she isnt a swordwoman ( i agree that monets defeat could have been handled differently but you never know she might reappear).
One thing thats been bothering me is that this entire arc we see Zoro doing nothing. literally since PH started he was just sitting back and relaxing and letting others handle things i wonder if he doesnt sense someone worth fighting there or is that Oda way of preparing us for what will come Also the "zoro doesnt hit/slash women" will change after baby 5 arrives imo -
I enjoyed this chapter. Tashigi got to fight some, it showed that she still held onto that misunderstanding years ago too lol.
I especially liked that Zoro didn't use Haki on Monet. Because it means that we get to see people fight Logias on a pyschological level. That even though we know Haki is a good way to fight a Logia more efficiently we won't always have a typical outcome. I think Zoro was telling the truth, he would have cut her down if he really needed too. Also showed that he can see Tashigi as reliable enough to stand aside for a bit and turn his back on an enemy.
Let Luffy stay as the Haki poster boy. Zoro has other methods lol.
Sanji is probably gonna have a fit though when he sees Tashigi all chewed up and Zoro undamaged.
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Personally, I very much enjoyed this chapter. I'm gonna try to not get into this whole argument everyone seems to be in because they didn't enjoy it for whatever reason they have, but I'll say this:
This arc to me seems like it's sole purpose is to show that the crew is on completely new level than they were pre-time skip (Sure, we got to see that somewhat on FI, but they were no name fishmen on steroids, and they were't technically in the New World yet)..
Also, Monet was never hyped(she was fan hyped), she was just an awesome character who has been completely mysterious up until these past few chapters, her and Caesar are here to show us that logia users pose no more of a threat to Luffy, Zoro and Sanji now than any other devil fruit user - where before the time skip they were shown to get stomped all over by them (for the most part).I agree with blackness662 about Zoro:
As Mihawk, he won't bother himself too much with weaklings (be as man or woman), he analyzes them and deals them as he see fit.
The way Zoro dealt with Monet is no different than the way Mihawk dealt with Zoro at the Baratie.
Franky, I find it more sexist to think his actions were sexist, because they weren't, at all.
In the end he gave her a quick haki slice to the cheek to show her he could infact hit her, and then cut her in half without it to show he was way beyond her level - quite smug, yes - but, to say that's out of character is just plain dumb.
–--You have to take the following into consideration:
The supernovas went directly into the New World right after the war, and from what we've seen they're still intact (the strong ones at least) 2 years later..
The Straw Hats aren't gonna sail into the New World after training for 2 years and have a ton of problems dealing with whoever they run into right off the bat.
Instead, like we've seen so far - unless you're in the top ranks of either the marines or a well known New World pirate crew, they're gonna mop the floor with you. -
Did anyone else note how he took down Monet with only one sword verses using all three? Perhaps it is a parallel to Mihawk's vegetable knife (and thus witholding one's strongest attacks)?
I really don't understand the confusion behind this chapter. I thought the message was pretty clear (albiet a bit wonky in presentaiton, but still clear).
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I think you just nailed. Oda might've tried to make a "Zoro can fight a woman anytime he wants" chapter, and it backfired by making it so. . .depending on that same idea. Also, the vagueness doesn't help one bit.
I honestly would have been more impressed if he had killed Monet with that strike, because it would have extinguished all doubt.
But I guess this way, Tashigi actually got to do something. -
I think you just nailed. Oda might've tried to make a "Zoro can fight a woman anytime he wants" chapter, and it backfired by making it so. . .depending on that same idea. Also, the vagueness doesn't help one bit.
The vagueness is less jarring than yelling at Enel "she's a woman!", but yeah, not really an improvement. We can only hope Zoro's future development sees him actually respecting Kuina's memory… pfff who am I kidding?
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I don't understand some people here. When has Zoro actually flat out killed anyone on screen? This is the Strawhats people..and Oda.
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That chapter was a mess to me… I "almost" want to say that fight operated under the same shitty logic bleach fights happen.
Also Tashigi failing the show again, major turndown...Seriously this might be the first hapter of op that irritated me.
Well whatever... -
Yeah this whole mess feels out of character for him.
Can't remember any other time he purposely left the crew in danger just to amuse himself
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Did anyone else note how he took down Monet with only one sword verses using all three? Perhaps it is a parallel to Mihawk's vegetable knife (and thus witholding one's strongest attacks)?
I really don't understand the confusion behind this chapter. I thought the message was pretty clear (albiet a bit wonky in presentaiton, but still clear).
He used his newest sword also which I think might be the weakest. You could have a point.
Yeah this whole mess feels out of character for him.
Can't remember any other time he purposely left the crew in danger just to amuse himself
Do you really think the crew was in danger, them being able to defend themselves and Zoro saying he would handle Monet from the beginning and running out to meet her?
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I don't understand some people here. When has Zoro actually flat out killed anyone on screen? This is the Strawhats people..and Oda.
nailed it.if he used haki,monet would have died.i don't remember strawhats killing anyone,at least in panel.nor does oda kill people **much.**we all know that.it would have been gruesome,a sliced up harpy.not OP territory.i can now consider(at least personally)the sexist bullshit to have no merit.
as for nami and others being in danger,that has nothing to do with this chapter.it happened in previous chapter.P.S: so what i'm saying is this chapter rocks.
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This chapter was so damn great, i absolutely love Zorro and Tashigis conversations.
And dayum that pose Yarasugi made on the chapter cover was so manly.
After all it was a perfect chapter. -
I'm sure she'll be fine. After seeing that snow bunny attack, I'm really expecting to see a cover page of her making giant snow bunnies in the future.
lol I want to see her interacting with a Lapan now! (those giant snow rabbits from Drum Island)
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He used his newest sword also which I think might be the weakest. You could have a point.
Naw, it's got nothing to do. For example, he defeated Daz Bones with Ittoryu too. Using less swords doesn't make his attacks any weaker.
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Do you really think the crew was in danger, them being able to defend themselves and Zoro saying he would handle Monet from the beginning and running out to meet her?
As he showed he could've defeated her instantly he just choose not to
Meaning that he put Robin through a stabbing needlessly. Making him a complete ass
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…..Chapter's out already?!
Off to read.
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Fantastic Chapter! One with a lot of metaphers and background thoughts… And who think that Zoro wont harm women, dont unterstand the whole message behind it... In addition Oda is showing us that Logia users aren't invincible and something special, like figured in the "Paradise", with Caribou, Monet and CC. In the New World you arent the best with only having Devil Fruit powers, you are one of the best if you are a strong character with experience and willpower.
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The thing is, I would agree with all of those comments about Zoro just being arrogant, that is his character.
The fact is, however, that from beginning to end, this chapter was about Zoro's issues with fighting women. If Zoro slashing Monet apart was supposed to contradict that, then the dialogue did unfortunately not make that clear enough.
Welp, this only once agains hammers home that Luffy's trait of not giving a fuck about gender is one of my favorite things about his character.
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Zoro made it clear he'll cut a woman but he just won't go full force on someone who is weak. Tashigi being at Zoro's level would be stupid so people should stop complaining. She was Coby weak in Loguetown and now she has some skill. Her contending with Law, Luffy, Smoker, Zoro, or Vergo would be absurd.
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Personally I don't like Monet that much, and it seems all of the fan-hype she got lead to this being a disappointing chapter for some.
For me, the chapter was enjoyable, despite the negative aspects to it. Guess I'm not much of a nitpicker, and would rather like the chapter for what it was.
I'm going to go ahead and jump on the "Zoro was an arrogant asshole, like Mihawk" train.
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I hope Zoro gets owned at some point by a Yonko swordsman/swordswoman, or just a strong indie swordsman/swordswoman.
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i think i read somewhere in spoiler thread that coby is captain now. where did that come from any idea?
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As he showed he could've defeated her instantly he just choose not to
Meaning that he put Robin through a stabbing needlessly. Making him a complete ass
Zoro doesn't typically coddle his crew. He likes them to fight for themselves. Also it seemed like she got in a surprise attack before he figured she was a Logia. Monet was hovering in front of them, then she's stabbing Robin from behind suddenly. Zoro's fast, but he doesn't seem to have soru. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v60/c685/21.html
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i think i read somewhere in spoiler thread that coby is captain now. where did that come from any idea?
It's for One Piece Film Z connected…thing. His friend (what's his name?) is a Lt. Commander
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Hi All,
Long time reader, with very few posts (please be gentle haha).
I rather liked this chapter, to me it demonstrated Zoro's maturity. As for the hate, some have already pointed out
1. has he ever killed anyone?
2. Monet is not a sword user
Zoro's primary goal is still the same, to be the greatest swordsman (which means his interests in fights belong with those that he considers
to be strong swordsmen/women.)
Zoro stayed behing to stop Monet from chasing/harming members of the crew (bc he was the only one in that group who knew how to use Haki), not to kill her.
Monet also acknowledged the difference in strength, but assumed like Tashigi did that he would not strike a woman.
I think Zoro initiated his attack with Haki, which caused Monet to freeze up with fear (as she could sense the haki?),
and in that split second of her freezing, he realized she wouldn't be able to block or escape (so he removed the Haki from his attack). From my view point,
in all past chapters (Zoro has not killed anyone) Zoro only uses killing techs against formidable ops who have the ability to kill him. Usually meaning that
they can also dodge or block the lethal blow from Zoro. Even when it hits, his lethal strikes have not killed anyone. I truly believe he would have followed
through with his Haki attack if he thought Monet could survive it.
As for Tashigi, she was able to fight almost evenly with a Logia (this is no easy feat, and she deserves credit for her growth as well. Even if its not the growth
that most would expect).
All in all, I think this was a very good chapter and I am thoroughly enjoying this arc. -
The fact is, however, that from beginning to end, this chapter was about Zoro's issues with fighting women. If Zoro slashing Monet apart was supposed to contradict that, then the dialogue did unfortunately not make that clear enough.
I don't think there were any issues in this chapter about Zoro fighting a woman at all. I think Tashigi might have come up with that impression (due to that unusual flashback). However, I think it is more like Zoro is not inclined to fighting this particular character (doesn't matter about gender) due to her strength.
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Zoro doesn't typically coddle his crew. He likes them to fight for themselves. Also it seemed like she got in a surprise attack before he figured she was a Logia. Monet was hovering in front of them, then she's stabbing Robin from behind suddenly. Zoro's fast, but he doesn't seem to have soru. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v60/c685/21.html
also,did you see that the slash continued and was very dangerous.there was no guarantee that it wouldn't hurt the others.i agree that it's a weak reason,and the speed factor is more important.
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When i saw Zoro cut Monet i was literally so happy to see that OP was getting a little gruesome to appeal to an older audience.
And then when i realized he didn't use haki i got sad, real sad.
Would have been the coolest thing to just see Zoro cut someone in half so easily.
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I thought it was made clear that Zoro didn't want to waste his time on somebody weak unless he was provoked, and that gender played no role in it. I don't understand how people are missing that. Yes there is some sexism in the manga, was Zoro's recent display sexism? I think not.
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@The:
It's for One Piece Film Z connected…thing. His friend (what's his name?) is a Lt. Commander
ah so its not canon …yet. We can not take things in the movies for granted and say they apply to manga until Oda says it in the
manga.While a few things may make their way from movie to manga, most doesn't. After all one movie had a brother to Wapol fightign the SHs during the Drum island...we know that never happened. -
I thought it was made clear that Zoro didn't want to waste his time on somebody weak unless he was provoked,
Didn't he waste a shitload of time by refusing to… Y'know, defeat Monet immediately?
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ah so its not canon …yet. We can not take things in the movies for granted and say they apply to manga until Oda says it in the
manga.While a few things may make their way from movie to manga, most doesn't. After all one movie had a brother to Wapol fightign the SHs during the Drum island...we know that never happened.but strong world and z are canon,and oda plays a huge part in z.so it's very much canon.
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By "shitload of time" do you mean the whole 5-10 minutes that it took in the OPverse, which for the most part was just to stall for time so that Nami and co. could go after the kids uninterupted?