2012 Presidential Election Discussion

Robby

@joekido:

To tell you the truth, I don't who to vote for. I might even not vote at all

If at this point, you're unsure of who to vote for because you don't know any actual facts about them, will believe the first random statement (and/or lie and/or optimistic statement with no backing or actual plan) thrown out without any actual support behind it, and haven't formed a preference for one or the other (their policies and intents are opposite across about 95% of the board) then you probably need to pay more attention. Some years the two canidates are both pretty close to the center and are very similar, but thats not the case this time at all. They're extremely different, it shouldn't take long to discover who you agree with on most policies.

Study up and learn a few things, don't just believe the first thing told to you by a party's own campaign team. Or… just stop paying attention and admit you're unqualified to vote with any sort of informed educated opinion, and not do it. It's up to you.

You don't have to agree 100% with a party's platform. But you should be able to know without a whole lot of study whose policies you agree with more... take an online quiz or two and they'll tell you in just a couple minutes... possibly you even lean independent. You could always vote third party. They won't win anything, but its at least a token sending of the message that "there's an interest in alternatives.:

Cyan D. Funk

I'm really bitter I have to wait until 2016 to vote

Riddler

@Ubiq:

He's yet to explain how he'll accomplish that; at most, he says that his Administration would cut taxes and reduce regulations, but low taxes on businesses didn't improve unemployment during the Bush years and removing regulations on banks is largely what caused the financial problems of a few years ago. That and I fail to see how short term job gains are going to even to begin to offset the long term health problems caused by relaxing environmental standards. By our standards, a 8-9% unemployment rate is fairly high, but it's much, much better than that of any of the countries who have embraced the sort of austerity measures Ryan proposed in his budget.

Thank you! I read a summary of Romneys speech this morning in the newspaper where he talks about a five step plan or some shit that goes like "Ok, first well give everyone a job, then we make America indepent of other nations" or whatever and Im thinking Dude! Youre just listing things, claiming to fix them, without giving any hint how the hell youre gonna do it! He might as well be saying "Oh when Im the President, the heavens will open up and it will rain gold! Vote me for eternal happiness!" I mean, I guess thats politics, but it seems so weird to have him say "Obama didnt do this, Obama didnt do that" and then he doesnt have a real plan himself either. What the hell? This guy would be a worse president than Bush!

Shandian

Its pretty remarkable how some right wing americans accuse Obama for being a 'socialist' while by european standards Obama is mostly leans right on his policy as does his Democratic party what is mostly center-right wing party by our standards. Rebublicans can be from almost extreme right to right wing party.

It just baffles and disgusts on what reasons some people vote against Obama… accusing him being a muslim,socialist and not being born in USA, what does not make any sense to me. Law that demands president has to been born in U.S soil and as a U.S citizen is pretty nonsensical to me. What does it matter where you are born if you have ability to be a president of a nation? USA is a country based on immigration and multiculture much like a mixing pot.

Republican party and its ideals is itself very appalling to me since I disagree with pretty much everything they stand for, but since I am not US citizen and never even visited there its no suprise, republicans seem to promote extreme patriotism, intolerance to the point of racism, promoting military and religion and using fear mongering as a main selling point instead offering reasonable solutions for country's problems.

It reminds most of extreme partys that are quick to accuse and blame but offer no real solutions, we got one such party in Finland that is very nationalist and adamantly opposed against EU and Euro and is popular amongst unsatisfied citizens who fed up because Finland has to bail out mediterrian nations out of their economic troubles, party gets lot of popularity by blaming and accusing everyone but so far only silence has been heard when real solutions are asked.

Populist partys and ignorant voters are cancer upon very democracy.

Green_vs_Red

@Riddler:

What the hell? This guy would be a worse president than Bush!

Or as the Republicans seem to think of him as "He who will not be named".

Md-Martin

@Cyan:

I'm really bitter I have to wait until 2016 to vote

Same here man, same here.

Mr. Truth

At least we'll all be able to vote in the 2014 midterms. Yay!!!!

But yeah it does kind of suck.

Pochipochi

People are actually going to respond to a Joekido post seriously

Monkey King

@Shandian:

Its pretty remarkable how some right wing americans accuse Obama for being a 'socialist' while by european standards Obama is mostly leans right on his policy as does his Democratic party what is mostly center-right wing party by our standards. Rebublicans can be from almost extreme right to right wing party.

Things have been nudging rightwards since…..since around the 40's or so. We're probably around as right as we're going to go before things begin to move back.

Gliblord

We've already been nudging back. If you ask any self-professed heartland American whether they'd like socialist policies without actually calling them socialist, most will say they'd love that shit. This huge divide is just the results of a devilishly successful propagandistic label game.

Monkey King

@Gliblord:

We've already been nudging back. If you ask any self-professed heartland American whether they'd like socialist policies without actually calling them socialist, most will say they'd love that shit. This huge divide is just the results of a devilishly successful propagandistic label game.

haha yeah, I've heard that too. That some issues isolated and not described in the Fox parlance actually have American support.

Robby

@Shandian:

It just baffles and disgusts on what reasons some people vote against Obama… accusing him being a muslim,socialist and not being born in USA, what does not make any sense to me. Law that demands president has to been born in U.S soil and as a U.S citizen is pretty nonsensical to me. What does it matter where you are born if you have ability to be a president of a nation? USA is a country based on immigration and multiculture much like a mixing pot.

To avoid the risk of an outsider who can be influenced by their original country patriotism to make eeeeevil choices that sell us all out. We don't want any secret Ruskie spies being president!

Because you know, its impossible for someone actually born in the US to be influenced by outside factors to do what's best for them and not the country.

Mostly its to keep Schwarzenegger from becoming president.

….

Seriously, I think it originates from the fact our country was technically born while in the middle of a war with motherland England, and that shaped a lot of our rules to include the fine print of "event though we're basing this off British law, we really don't want anyone British actually here." Things to insure our independence and autonomy from the crown.

Monkey King

@Shandian:

It just baffles and disgusts on what reasons some people vote against Obama… accusing him being a muslim,socialist and not being born in USA, what does not make any sense to me. Law that demands president has to been born in U.S soil and as a U.S citizen is pretty nonsensical to me. What does it matter where you are born if you have ability to be a president of a nation? USA is a country based on immigration and multiculture much like a mixing pot.

@RobbyBevard:

To avoid the risk of an outsider who can be influenced by their original country patriotism to make eeeeevil choices that sell us all out. We don't want any secret Ruskie spies being president!

Because you know, its impossible for someone actually born in the US to be influenced by outside factors to do what's best for them and not the country.

Mostly its to keep Schwarzenegger from becoming president.

….

Seriously, I think it originates from the fact our country was technically born while in the middle of a war with motherland England, and that shaped a lot of our rules to include the fine print of "event though we're basing this off British law, we really don't want anyone British actually here." Things to insure our independence and autonomy from the crown.

Yeah it's true, when the US was born it was a smaller weaker baby country which was caught in the middle of two world powers seeking influence, France and the UK.
So we were a lot like the countries caught between the US and USSR later in the Cold War.

Also it was kind of normal in the 1800's for European powers to install or seek to install non-native leaders in new countries to secure their influence. The monarchies of the emerging Balkan states at the time (Greece, Bulgaria, Romania) were literally all foreigners. Only Serbia had native rulers.

Check it.
These are the Greek kings.
Notice the name of the bloodlines? Sure as shit not native.

This is also the reason the Bulgarian kings were called tsars. Because their line came from Russia.

Pochipochi

When George Bush was President, our allies trusted us and our enemies feared us.
Now that King Obama( AKA Putin's Puppet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) is Prezzy, our enemies laugh at his weakness and our allies don't believe him…..........................................................

Monkey King

@The:

When George Bush was President, our allies trusted us and our enemies feared us.
Now that King Obama( AKA Putin's Puppet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) is Prezzy, our enemies laugh at his weakness and our allies don't believe him…..........................................................

Republican's idea of the world is Poland and Israel basically. And by golly if the Polish are being stupidly scared because we won't put some retarded missile defense thing against the Russians they must be right!
Never matter that Poland is a NATO member and any attack against it would be like starting WW3, which a giant broken turd filled with popular discontent that relies almost entirely on selling NATO Europe oil would never never ever fucking even DARE lollll.
Oh and as long as Israel keeps doing awful shit like not outright freezing and rolling back the settler bullshit, then we should be calling them on that shit, and not y'know the opposite, coddling them about it.

I'm actually super thrilled that Republicans have FINALLY been broken of being the "Foreign Policy Party", if nothing else Obama (with help from Bush sucking at it) has taken that one back from them which is a huge good for the country and world alike.

Mugiwara_no_Ice

@Monkey:

Check it.
These are the Greek kings.
Notice the name of the bloodlines? Sure as shit not native.

LOL, they didn't even try to hide it by adapting their first names.

As for a ruler being born in the country he's leading. I find this to be the most normal and natural thing there is. I want someone ruling who has a deep attachement with the place, the people, and all that.

Shandian

Bush did succeed in one thing, he made USA very unpopular and unlikable outside its borders by general populace… the whole ''Your either with us or against us'' policy did not earn many friends for Bush administaration...Atleast Obama is generally well liked and respected on international politics.

Pochipochi

@Monkey:

Republican's idea of the world is Poland and Israel basically. And by golly if the Polish are being stupidly scared because we won't put some retarded missile defense thing against the Russians they must be right!
Never matter that Poland is a NATO member and any attack against it would be like starting WW3, which a giant broken turd filled with popular discontent that relies almost entirely on selling NATO Europe oil would never never ever fucking even DARE lollll.
Oh and as long as Israel keeps doing awful shit like not outright freezing and rolling back the settler bullshit, then we should be calling them on that shit, and not y'know the opposite, coddling them about it.

I'm actually super thrilled that Republicans have FINALLY been broken of being the "Foreign Policy Party", if nothing else Obama (with help from Bush sucking at it) has taken that one back from them which is a huge good for the country and world alike.

It's kind of funny that at the core of things, the only people that really would vote Republican are misinformed, libertarian, or tea party (this still a thing???) at this point.

Ubiq

@Riddler:

Thank you! I read a summary of Romneys speech this morning in the newspaper where he talks about a five step plan or some shit that goes like "Ok, first well give everyone a job, then we make America indepent of other nations" or whatever and Im thinking Dude! Youre just listing things, claiming to fix them, without giving any hint how the hell youre gonna do it! He might as well be saying "Oh when Im the President, the heavens will open up and it will rain gold! Vote me for eternal happiness!" I mean, I guess thats politics, but it seems so weird to have him say "Obama didnt do this, Obama didnt do that" and then he doesnt have a real plan himself either. What the hell? This guy would be a worse president than Bush!

Particularly interesting is how Mitt will create twelve million jobs by 2016 by making the United States energy independent by 2020 while largely opposing green energy initiatives like wind and solar power.

Anyway, even if he did give specifics, it wouldn't go well for him. The man lies. A lot. Not that this matters though; one pollster for the Romney campaign said that they won't let their tactics be 'dictated to them by fact-checkers."

Monkey King

@Mugiwara_no_Ice:

LOL, they didn't even try to hide it by adapting their first names.

As for a ruler being born in the country he's leading. I find this to be the most normal and natural thing there is. I want someone ruling who has a deep attachement with the place, the people, and all that.

Constantine is basically Greek, though it's hard to tell in English sources if those are actually how the names were said. All these common or somewhat common Western names with roots in the Bible that get said differently in various languages. Probably Greeks called them Georgios, Constantinos, Alexandros, and Pavlos. Otto on the other hand hell if I know.

It's the same thing as how you have the same religious name source between Arab and Turkish names. Like Mohammed becomes Mehmed and stuff like that.

Mugiwara_no_Ice

@Monkey:

Constantine is basically Greek, though it's hard to tell in English sources if those are actually how the names were said. All these common or somewhat common Western names with roots in the Bible that get said differently in various languages. Probably Greeks called them Georgios, Constantinos, Alexandros, and Pavlos. Otto on the other hand hell if I know.

It's the same thing as how you have the same religious name source between Arab and Turkish names. Like Mohammed becomes Mehmed and stuff like that.

Yeah, just had to laugh when I saw that list like that. In fact they did adapt, the first George's real name was Vilhelm.

Ubiq

@Monkey:

Otto on the other hand hell if I know.

Isn't it Othon in Greek?

Of course, they could have just translated it in Ancient Greek if they'd wanted; Otto means The Rich One or something like that so they could have just called him Pluton.

Bill

http://www.isidewith.com/

!
Lol.

Monkey King

@Bill:

http://www.isidewith.com/

! http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/79108354.jpg
Lol.

Aight'

http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/79540112.jpg

Pochipochi

Go go Green Party

You'll never be relevant but I'll always be told we're meant to be together

We're like that couple in Discworld who were the greatest, most passionate lovers of all time, other than the fact that they were born 200 years apart and never knew the other existed

Ubiq

http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/79570682.jpg

Pretty much what I expected really. It doesn't show it here, but Virgil Goode was at 1%.

Oddly enough, Obama and Romney give the same answer with regards to support for the death penalty, but Romney is counted as having a similar position to mine while Obama isn't. Toss out that oddity and Barack is probably out ahead of Stein. I put a heavy emphasis on the need to expand NASA's budget as well, which is likely the real reason that Romney fares so well. Had I given that less weight, Obama would probably be out in front even without that death penalty glitch.

Cyan D. Funk

http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/79612281.jpg

Huh.

Green_vs_Red

^ Damn 18% for Romney?

Ubiq

The importance you assign to a particular issue has a lot to do with it. There were only about three or four issues that I had a similar stance to Romney on and most of those were somewhat important.

Monkey King

@Mugiwara_no_Ice:

LOL, they didn't even try to hide it by adapting their first names.

As for a ruler being born in the country he's leading. I find this to be the most normal and natural thing there is. I want someone ruling who has a deep attachement with the place, the people, and all that.

I'm not sure I agree, I dunno, maybe that's because America is by nature the sort of country that is defined by coming here rather than having roots here though. Even our roots are about coming here lol.
Dunno how I'd feel about it if I lived in Belgium, though that you say this as an immigrant is even more interesting.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Ubiq:

The importance you assign to a particular issue has a lot to do with it. There were only about three or four issues that I had a similar stance to Romney on and most of those were somewhat important.

Trying to think of things I'm moderate on….
Mmmm, uh death penalty? I assigned low care for it though...uh....abortion? Though I only said I didn't like it much, not that I thought it should be illegal (quite the opposite).
I'm guessing I lost Green points with my foreign policy. They seem pretty neat as a whole, but I'm too suspicious of their stances on FP as being overreactive to Iraq. Like you know...Kucinich going to Tripoli last year overreactive. Pretty sure they were against Libya.
In FP I consider myself a "Realist" in short term and a big happy world dreamer in the long term. An odd combo but whatever. They cancel out eachothers flaws I like to think.

andre

http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/79661352.jpg I'm only suprised by how much I agree with Romney. (whatever that means given his inclination towards lying.)

Gliblord

@andre:

(whatever that means given his inclination towards lying.)

Yeah, saying Romney has a platform or set of beliefs is like saying a leaf in the wind has a permanent residence

cooldud

@Monkey:

In FP I consider myself a "Realist" in short term and a big happy world dreamer in the long term.

Nothing odd about that. That's any sane man's thinking, no? Pragmatic in the present, optimistic for the future.

Dryish

http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/79878615.jpg
Hah. As a Green Scandinavian I'm not really surprised by this. I'd be a good Democrat should I ever emigrate to the States. What kinda scares me a bit, though, is that the quiz claims I agree with the Green party on the FP questions. Goes to show that I don't know enough about that stuff yet.

Monkey King

@cooldud_21:

Nothing odd about that. That's any sane man's thinking, no? Pragmatic in the present, optimistic for the future.

FP Realism involves more than pragmaticism though, though I guess I could say it's the pragmaticism part I retain. And not quite as much the more questionable aspects.

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@Dryish:

http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/79878615.jpg
Hah. As a Green Scandinavian I'm not really surprised by this. I'd be a good Democrat should I ever emigrate to the States. What kinda scares me a bit, though, is that the quiz claims I agree with the Green party on the FP questions. Goes to show that I don't know enough about that stuff yet.

Half of that I imagine is the….y'know common sense of staying in the UN and stuff like that lol.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

I'd be scared of anyone who turned up high scores for Virgil Goode lol.

Dryish

The man's got to be a loony bin runaway or something since today's the first time ever I've even heard his name. What's his agenda? Neo-Mercantilism and Isolationism?

Shandian

http://www.isidewith.com/results/79919588

HOLY SHIT… I decided to choose the MOST awful choices from my point of view and it gave 97% with Romney!? Just how credible is this quiz and what the hell is with Romney? I knew he was very right wing but I didnt believe he would be a…monster? I cant believe this shit... if Romney actually gets elected I think we will be missing Bush times...

I cant bellieve that Romney and Obama are almost equal on polls... truely disheartening and dissapointing to hear that so many american people are seriosly supporting Romney, I think there is lack of education and awaraness in some states.

Ubiq

Virgil Goode is from the Constitution Party. Let's put it this way, the Constitution Party was formed by merging the American Independent Party that had a George Wallace/Curtis LeMay ticket in 1968 and a group called The American Taxpayer's Party. The latter was started by a guy who tried to get Reagan to fire James Baker for not being conservative enough.

I think the only thing I "agreed" with him on is the Death Penalty and Ending the Trade Embargo/Travel Restrictions on Cuba.

On the other hand, there's a lot of difference there. I support the Death Penalty for particularly heinous acts like the Colorado theater shooting. I support Ending the Cuban Embargo because I think that normalizing trade relations will go a lot farther towards finally killing off the Castro Regime than the same basic policies that haven't worked for fifty years now. That's a lot different than Goode's position, which seems to be "Let's do away with economic sanctions on everybody. If an American company wants to trade with Syria, well, why the hell not?"

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Shandian:

http://www.isidewith.com/results/79919588

HOLY SHIT… I decided to choose the MOST awful choices from my point of view and it gave 97% with Romney!? Just how credible is this quiz and what the hell is with Romney? I knew he was very right wing but I didnt believe he would be a…monster? I cant believe this shit... if Romney actually gets elected I think we will be missing Bush times...

It said I agreed with you on five percent of the issues.

Should the U.S. intervene in the affairs of other countries?

Christ with you: Yes, and use the military to preemptively strike any hostile nations perceived as a threat

Your similar answer: Only in matters of national security, human rights violations, or specifically asked by the international community

–-

Should we expand our offshore oil drilling?

Christ with you: Yes

Your similar answer: Incentivize the private sector to develop alternative forms of energy

Should the U.S. have bailed out the major banks during the financial crisis of 2008?

Christ with you: No

Your similar answer: Regardless, we should instead enact legislation that prevents banks from becoming too big to fail

It's being a bit generous on that middle one to say the least.

I cant bellieve that Romney and Obama are almost equal on polls… truely disheartening and dissapointing to hear that so many american people are seriosly supporting Romney, I think there is lack of education and awaraness in some states.

The weak economy is pretty much the only reason this election is remotely close.

Luffyko

http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/79956265.jpg

I'm not American, but the test was interesting. The results didn't surprise me though.

Chrissie

Has this been posted here? Funny stuff especially since I missed Ryan's speech :')
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/

Dryish

@Chrissie:

Has this been posted here? Funny stuff especially since I missed Ryan's speech :')
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/

Yeah, I think it has, but the other thing that this thread lacks and the Random News Discussion has is a link to the article about what happened after this particular analysis of Ryan's speech surfaced. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/30/1125943/-FOX-can-t-stop-the-fire-Ryan-started-and-now-it-s-burning-out-of-control.
Give that a read, Chrissie. I know I couldn't stop laughing for a while.

Chrissie

@Dryish:

Yeah, I think it has, but the other thing that this thread lacks and the Random News Discussion has is a link to the article about what happened after this particular analysis of Ryan's speech surfaced. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/30/1125943/-FOX-can-t-stop-the-fire-Ryan-started-and-now-it-s-burning-out-of-control.
Give that a read, Chrissie. I know I couldn't stop laughing for a while.

I did! That is what lead me to the original article and God both were hilarious xD

C-moon rush

Democrat is the best

Ubiq

“The demographics race we’re losing badly,” said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R, S.C.). “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

Pretty much says it all right there.

Darkstorm

Gotta keep them angry otherwise they'll realise nothing ever trickles down

Monkey King

Win or lose the Republicans will need to change in the next ten or so years or start losing chronically.

Cyan D. Funk

At some point the Republicans will run out of old rich white people, then the changing can start

Master O

@RobbyBevard:

To avoid the risk of an outsider who can be influenced by their original country patriotism to make eeeeevil choices that sell us all out. We don't want any secret Ruskie spies being president!

Because you know, its impossible for someone actually born in the US to be influenced by outside factors to do what's best for them and not the country.

Mostly its to keep Schwarzenegger from becoming president.

Looking at the US Constituion, Schwarzenegger cannot run for or be President because:

"Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as president of the United States:“ No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ”

The Twelfth Amendment states, "No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." The Fourteenth Amendment does not use the phrase natural-born citizen. It does provide that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Under Article One of the United States Constitution, representatives and senators are only required to be U.S. citizens.[2][3]

The first several presidents prior to Martin van Buren, as well as potential presidential candidates, were born as British subjects in British America before the American Revolution"

Green_vs_Red

Guess he just half to settle on being either a congressman or a senator.

commonyoshi

http://www.isidewith.com/results/68169946:962406?ref=nf
http://www.isidewith.com/results/68169946

Well these were my results. It turns out I'm a libertarian at heart. It'll be interesting comparing myself with the overwhelmingly democratic majority in this thread. :)

Edit: You guys all suck and only posted the percentages, not links to your responses, lol. >_<