Chapter 645: "Death Is Also Revenge"

thewonderer

I just looked and since I've started replying to thewonderer I haven't seen you quote me once. Especially not page 24. I've seen you quote isrnick.

Besides that I haven't been posting much in these threads or this section of the forum for that matter the past few chaps for the exact reason of me not thinking this arc is all that good so it's not like I'm actively reading every single post in this thread.

How can you counter my arguments if you do not agree with the person I'm arguing against or even know exactly what I'm arguing about? Especially when you're quoting specific things I've directed to the person I'm arguing with?
That's what I didn't like. I've stated what I've didn't like several times now and all I get in response is I didn't say why. Try rereading all of my posts one more time.

Also, ofcourse w/e I suggest now is going to get the reply of "I don't think that would make a good villain." I'm not about to create a new arc for fishman island just to please ppl who don't agree with me lol about why I don't like the arc or villain.
Outside of the exceptions I've already noted it bored me.

If you were just stating your opinion on the argument altogether, that's fine but you didn't really need to quote me to do it. It just came off like you just started replying without understanding the context in which I was arguing in. Obviously if you're not following what the other person has said and asked for my posts can be seen in a different perspective.

Holy crap dude, can I ask you just one thing…..don't you work, go to school, study, or anything?

Zik

@thewonderer:

Holy crap dude, can I ask you just one thing…..don't you work, go to school, study, or anything?

Concession accepted .

thewonderer

@Zik:

Concession accepted .

I totally could respond but damn I really don't feel like killing two hours of my life :'(

IgorGB

Please don't kill the thread yet, we still need to wait 6 days.

That post is the definition of tl;dr

MasterKingJC

This ain't nothing, I repeat, NOTHING, compared to AGOG.

Baou Zakurga

I noticed that Shirley's hands are capable of wrapping around those kid's bodies.She's got man-hands

MasterKingJC

@Baou:

I noticed that Shirley's hands are capable of wrapping around those kid's bodies.She's got man-hands

Not man-hands.

Just very big.

Md-Martin

You know what they say about Mermaids with big hands…..big fins.

MasterKingJC

That is very true.:ninja:

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/012/5/1/one_piece___madam_shirley_by_ioshik-d371b9n.png

AnimeFTW

@MasterKingJC:

This ain't nothing, I repeat, NOTHING, compared to AGOG.

Pardon my ignorance, but who's Agog, and what did he/she do?

AlucarDraculA

@AnimeFTW:

Pardon my ignorance, but who's Agog, and what did he/she do?

Look early on in the nakamates thread and you will see.

MasterKingJC

@AnimeFTW:

Pardon my ignorance, but who's Agog, and what did he/she do?

Look at the earlier pages of the Last Two Nakamates thread.
His lengthy posts are legendary.

Md-Martin

@AnimeFTW:

Pardon my ignorance, but who's Agog, and what did he/she do?

AGOG was a poster who supported Perona joining. He had little-to-nothing support for his theories, which where usually unbearably long hypothetical scenarios. He continued to vouch that Perona would join when it was becoming painfully obvious she wouldn't join.

Baou Zakurga

I'm afraid that next chapter,Franky is going to turn my favorite officer into roasted squid-ch…. All well....

If I'm not mistaken,I think Red Hawk vaporized Hody's shirt off:ninja:

summer9

Is there a Roronoa Zoro thread here?

Its Roronoa Zoro's Birthday today!!! Happy Birthday Zoro!!!!

ponx

@AnimeFTW:

Pardon my ignorance, but who's Agog, and what did he/she do?

For ur reading pleasure

Demon Rin

Did we ever get an AGOG reaction to when it became bluntly and unarguably clear she wasn't joining? Or was he banned by then?

RomanceDawn

@Demon:

Did we ever get an AGOG reaction to when it became bluntly and unarguably clear she wasn't joining? Or was he banned by then?

I remember him sounding so defeated and confused as to why she didn't join. It was like his spirit had broken. That was my interpretation of one of his final posts anyway.

The Lion

@Demon:

Did we ever get an AGOG reaction to when it became bluntly and unarguably clear she wasn't joining? Or was he banned by then?

Cant remember if it was on this forum or onemanga were he started ranting about how bad of a writer Oda was when Perona did not join.

@RomanceDawn:

I remember him sounding so defeated and confused as to why she didn't join. It was like his spirit had broken. That was my interpretation of one of his final posts anyway.

Ye he was devastated, just like one of those crazy people who predicted the world would end on a specific date and it passes without anything happening.

AnimeFTW

@AlucarDraculA:

Look early on in the nakamates thread and you will see.

@MasterKingJC:

Look at the earlier pages of the Last Two Nakamates thread.
His lengthy posts are legendary.

@Md-Martin:

AGOG was a poster who supported Perona joining. He had little-to-nothing support for his theories, which where usually unbearably long hypothetical scenarios. He continued to vouch that Perona would join when it was becoming painfully obvious she wouldn't join.

@ponx:

For ur reading pleasure

Thank you all for the responses! I'll go check it out now! Sees AGOG's post … I see. That IS long. Is that a record?

MasterKingJC

@The:

Cant remember if it was on this forum or onemanga were he started ranting about how bad of a writer Oda was when Perona did not join.

Do you have a link to AGOG's onemanga account?

Also, I got some nostalgia from reading the earlier Nakamates posts.
I forgot how incredibly stupid Super Connard was.

The Lion

@MasterKingJC:

Do you have a link to AGOG's onemanga account?

.

7592 posts, Jesus.

http://forum.onemanga.com/member.php?u=30988

rubia_ryu

Wait, AGOG is female?

Edit: Ah, nostalgic reads. I haven't seen anything from sebbe lately. Where did he/she go?

Dryish

Whoa, apparently she is. If that really is AGOG's profile that is. I am nonplussed.
I thought he was just another extremely obstinate guy who had lost his sense of reality but not his wits.

choperman

@MasterKingJC:

Not man-hands.

Just very big.

@Md-Martin:

You know what they say about Mermaids with big hands…..big fins.

@MasterKingJC:

That is very true.:ninja:

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/012/5/1/one_piece___madam_shirley_by_ioshik-d371b9n.png

This just made my day!

Aohige_AP

This is the last post.

@brennen.exe:

Too bad, because that's not a valid argument.

brennen, not a single Japanese has questioned or shown confused about the panel, context, or the line.
If a Japanese manga written in Japanese for Japanese audience was clearly understood with no conflict, don't you think it's YOUR problem and not Oda's? Don't you think it's a lost-in-translation issue, and nothing else? Eh?

I repeat this again. ONLY the translated community has problem understanding this.
Naturally, it should be assumed it's a translation issue, avoidable or not.

Surely you're not going to imply every single Japanese One Piece readers are illogical goats who lack understanding of context, since no one has brought this up as confusion, or was debated?

Do you shoot this down as invalid argument too?

choperman

@Aohige_AP:

This is the last post.

brennen, not a single Japanese has questioned or shown confused about the panel, context, or the line.
If a Japanese manga written in Japanese for Japanese audience was clearly understood with no conflict, don't you think it's YOUR problem and not Oda's? Don't you think it's a lost-in-translation issue, and nothing else? Eh?

I repeat this again. ONLY the translated community has problem understanding this.
Naturally, it should be assumed it's a translation issue, avoidable or not.

Surely you're not going to imply every single Japanese One Piece readers are illogical goats who lack understanding of context, since no one has brought this up as confusion, or was debated?

Do you shoot this down as invalid argument too?

Okay what's this argument about, I'm officially interested

Arkman

That is what happens when this forums have to endure a break for One Piece, complete caos. The Sun orbits around the Earth, and people starts trolling Aohige.

Actually just go a few pages back to see.

blue-san

Simply put:

Aohige translates = that's how it is
People still question - but isn't that translation weird, I mean it makes no sense, judging from the situation we believe Luffy should say something else
Aohige = Well no, 1. translation is clear and 2. no one in japanese community thought it was weird, so stop thinking along those lines, thats how it is…
People this time backed up with Brennen - well but it is weird and isn't it possible Oda just made a mistake. Luffy should reply to Hodi instead of talking to himself…
Aohige - oh for god's sake people…
Brennen and people - look we are not questioning your translation, just that it doesn't make sense for us, so could it be Oda just made a mistake
Aohige - for fuck's sake, for the last time. NO,NOT possible in this case! jesus christ last post

Do you guys get it now? Or not? I mean opinions are one's own and everyone can have a different one, but if you guys are going to "ask" him about it and Aohige will reply to it for 10 times…
Well unless it is a rhetorical question, but in that case you guys should make a "bubble" (make it known that is how you put it) - and as it is with rhetorical questions, they are questions to which you expect no answers right...

I agree on the other hand, that if I were Aohige, I would not go "apeshit" and my last post to you guys would be somewhat along the lines of:

"lol no, but have it your way and you are free to think along those lines, that Oda made a mistake. If that is what makes it better for you, makes you calm and whatnot. But if you are going to ask me, my answer stands. Oda did not make a mistake, that's how it is. You dont like it? Deal with it "

Sonic Youth

"Because he's the hero AP deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not the hero. He's a silent guardian, watchfull protector. The Blue Knight."

Just_Gabe

What happens when there's 1 week break: people discussing over very irrelevant topics originated from a misunderstood line.

Have fun!

rubia_ryu

Is it possible at least for AP Forums to settle from such stupid arguments for the next two days or so until we find spoilers for the new chapter? Two days, people. I want to say, "Make it happen," but I doubt it would happen.

On another note, what do you guys think about the incredible jump in power levels of the crew? It makes sense in context that it's better to overkill than underkill, prepping for future threats, etc.; but for Luffy alone to be capable of destroying something like Noah, it almost seems like too steep a jump. It gives the impression that whatever further training they'll go through won't look as impressive as their efforts during this time skip.

Drake_Cloud

@rubia_ryu:

On another note, what do you guys think about the incredible jump in power levels of the crew? It makes sense in context that it's better to overkill than underkill, prepping for future threats, etc.; but for Luffy alone to be capable of destroying something like Noah, it almost seems like too steep a jump. It gives the impression that whatever further training they'll go through won't look as impressive as their efforts during this time skip.

Isn't that the point? I assumed that the whole reason for the timeskip was so the SH could reach the point where they don't need any more formal training to become the strongest pirate crew in the world, and that anything beyond this point is similar to Paradise in that the crew gets gradually better, with no huge power jumps between arcs.

Also, Its worth noting that one of the main villians that Luffy is going to have to fight is the guy who almost single-handedly destroyed Marineford within minutes of getting the Gura Gura fruit. Compared to that, busting a large wooden ship by punching it repeatedly seems sort of unimpressive.

Coruscation

I think Oda handled Luffy destroying Noah pretty well. It's clear he can't just bust right through it, the way someone like Whitebeard or Mihawk or Shanks or the Admirals could do, he has to hit it many, MANY times with his massive, hardened punches. Even then it takes a while. I also get the vibe that he won't make it in time and will need help though he could've if he started when he said he'd do it the first time. Also, G3 works on a trade speed for power concept like always, so it's alright and doesn't make Luffy overpowered.

Of course we'll get a gradual growth throughout the New World, no massive jumps like what we just had. So if you compare arc 1 to arc 2 it would naturally be less impressive than the TS. But if you compare Alabasta to Skypiea it's no big deal either. Try Arlong Park to Enies Lobby, now we're talking. Same thing will happen in part 2 and I think it will work fine. Now we're really seeing Luffy grow into the shoes of the Pirate King and that process will be most interesting to follow.

RomanceDawn

@ Rubia
Considering he is using probably hundreds upon hundreds of giant armored punches just to smash one little piece of it up, I don't think its that great a feat. If it was one hit then that would be something to worry about as far as the major power levels established so far.

I'm sure the straw hats could take on an emporers crew now and I am just fine with that as I am sure there lesser powers to give them serious fight. That and tricky fighting styles.

blue-san

@rubia_ryu:

Is it possible at least for AP Forums to settle from such stupid arguments for the next two days or so until we find spoilers for the new chapter? Two days, people. I want to say, "Make it happen," but I doubt it would happen.

On another note, what do you guys think about the incredible jump in power levels of the crew? It makes sense in context that it's better to overkill than underkill, prepping for future threats, etc.; but for Luffy alone to be capable of destroying something like Noah, it almost seems like too steep a jump. It gives the impression that whatever further training they'll go through won't look as impressive as their efforts during this time skip.

I don't find it to be a huge jump at all.

Here is my simple reasoning.

1. We know Luffy is special he is the main character so his ability to learn should be top in manga

2. Beforehand, before the time skip, they haven't even travel all that much (long) yet we were witness to amazing progress such as gear 2. and 3. etc

Is it hard to believe he would advance to this and much more after 2 years of devotion to only train himself not to mention 1,5 years he would do it under the guidance of one of the world's top fighters…

Iee not a stretch at all, in fact I find it weird that some would have seen it as an abnormal jump at all...

MasterKingJC

@Sonic:

"Because he's the hero AP deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not the hero. He's a silent guardian, watchfull protector. The Blue Knight."

rubia_ryu

And finally the thread is moving properly again. Whoo!

As I said, I'm not arguing the reasons for such a huge jump. I'm just curious as to how they'll advance further; they're definitely not quite at Roger's crew's level yet (excluding Buggy who's special), since they've still got half of the Grand Line left. Unlike Roger though, Luffy is pretty young and probably will continue his adventures after the end of the Grand Line. So, they could potentially go further.

"PIRATE KING RECORD BROKEN" listed as an accomplishment… on several headlines in the news. :ninja:

LUCCI DA PIGEON PIMP

Let's see what the new world has to offer before talking about power jump , for all we know you got people right there who could destroy mountain by farting.

The SH looks overpowered because they are facing an inexperienced rookie crew , let's see them face an established and powerful NW crew and then we will see if they are really overpowered.

When you look back in retrospective part 1 villains were able to wipe out cities with sandstorms, destroy countries with lightning , destroy an entire company HQ with a single kick , punch an island in 2 ….And those are people luffy defeated , defeating somebody is one thing , pulling out the same stunt they did or in the same magnitude is another thing .

It's about time luffy unleash the same kind of power that those guys did , think about it for a while , those guys were not the absolute top and yet they were able to unleash that much damage and we do know that 2 of them were New world veterans.
While those part 1 boss are looked down upon by the fandom with scorn and disdain , they were powerful in their own right .
Now it's time for luffy who is not a rookie anymore to be able to rival his opponents not only in strength (strength alone is meaningless otherwise giants would be the strongest beings alive ) but in overall power.

Remember 2 years is not a short time especially when you spend it training with the best.

Demonicpoodle

This break was alright for me to handle, but I really hope that Oda doesn't take a break on a chapter that will decide whether Fishman Island is done or whether it has a lot to go with a different route on the same topic. I have a feeling he will do that exact thing, lol. It should be coming up pretty soon, too. 3-5 chapters at most will be the decisive point. I have a feeling that since he showed the Supernovas as a teaser, that we won't be seeing them for a while, which hints at Fishman Island being more than meets the eye.

I wish we would've seen Luffy's fists in that Color of Armaments, Gear 3rd Elephant Gatling. Hopefully the anime expands upon that.

And those battles between Zephos/JD/MK and Agog were something to behold. At first I ignored Agog's posts, but he really has supporting evidence and practically writes multiple constitutions supporting it.

I also find it interesting that since, typically, Luffy uses his most powerful attack on the final boss (Gomu Gomu no Storm on Crocodile, the awesome Belfry attack on Enel, Jet Gatling on Lucci, etc.), he uses his most powerful, limit break move on a giant ship/inanimate object this time instead of a person.

IgorGB

@LUCCI:

Let's see what the new world has to offer before talking about power jump , for all we know you got people right there who could destroy mountain by farting.

The SH looks overpowered because they are facing an inexperienced rookie crew , let's see them face an established and powerful NW crew and then we will see if they are really overpowered.

When you look back in retrospective part 1 villains were able to wipe out cities with sandstorms, destroy countries with lightning , destroy an entire company HQ with a single kick , punch an island in 2 ….And those are people luffy defeated , defeating somebody is one thing , pulling out the same stunt they did or in the same magnitude is another thing .

It's about time luffy unleash the same kind of power that those guys did , think about it for a while , those guys were not the absolute top and yet they were able to unleash that much damage and we do know that 2 of them were New world veterans.
While those part 1 boss are looked down upon by the fandom with scorn and disdain , they were powerful in their own right .
Now it's time for luffy who is not a rookie anymore to be able to rival his opponents not only in strength (strength alone is meaningless otherwise giants would be the strongest beings alive ) but in overall power.

Remember 2 years is not a short time especially when you spend it training with the best.

This is what I'm afraid of, that One Piece is going to become Dragonball, with characters being able to destroy the whole planet by accident if they're not careful.

MasterKingJC

@IgorGB:

This is what I'm afraid of, that One Piece is going to become Dragonball, with characters being able to destroy the whole planet by accident if they're not careful.

Don't be ridiculous. That'll never happen.
There are going to be insanely powerful enemies in the New World, but not that powerful.

Lazy Justice

Only Blackbeard.

nefra

@IgorGB:

This is what I'm afraid of, that One Piece is going to become Dragonball, with characters being able to destroy the whole planet by accident if they're not careful.

Not even whitebeard had that power and he was considered to be the strongest man in the world

Lazy Justice

Didn't they say he did have that power, but never used it?

RomanceDawn

Apparently if he wanted to destroy the world he could have. To what extent is anyone's guess.

Baou Zakurga

One piece only has one confirmed 'planet busters'.Oda said through Sengoku that Whitebeard could destroy the world with his ability.But what would be the point of doing that,though….Akainu,and Aojiki might have huge,widespread destructive abilities,and so does Enel.

But we already saw around 40 new world captains,and they were neturalised by the Marines.So I don't think.Not even Shanks could destroy a planet.Hopefully,the other Yonkou have some cool,destructive powers that Elephant gatling will be required to be effective,so Luffy can go all out,and still push himself

Mugen

@Baou:

One piece only has one confirmed 'planet busters'.Oda said through Sengoku that Whitebeard could destroy the world with his ability.But what would be the point of doing that,though….Akainu,and Aojiki might have huge,widespread destructive abilities,and so does Enel.

But we already saw around 40 new world captains,and they were neturalised by the Marines.So I don't think.Not even Shanks could destroy a planet.Hopefully,the other Yonkou have some cool,destructive powers that Elephant gatling will be required to be effective,so Luffy can go all out,and still push himself

I know he said it… but I don't think it means at one go. He'd just be crumbling the ground for most part... I don't consider it a planet buster ability.

Sheep

@Mugen:

I know he said it… but I don't think it means at one go. He'd just be crumbling the ground for most part... I don't consider it a planet buster ability.

Yeah, he is more of a life wiper than a planet buster, can't see he him destroying the whole planet. Destroying the world could also mean as just destroying the surface and making it inhospitable.
Planet busting just doesn't belong in the OPverse.

akagami7

@Baou:

But we already saw around 40 new world captains,and they were neturalised by the Marines.

not going against you, but those captains oneshotted pacifistas