Why do people hate James Cameron's Avaturd?

Hiroy

Lol, that doesn't change the fact that the main character was a Gary-stu, even if he did have some character development; he still was a gary-stu.
He wasn't unlikeable in the sense that he was a jerk, he was unlikeable in the sense that he was way too fucking perfect and got everything his way.

So true. I wondered why those uptight space marines didn't confiscate his shit or punish him after his first stunt. Sympathy for being crippled? I dunno. Then agian, all those that worked in the "Earth-side" station were shallow empty shells that lacked any character.

The scenes in at the main bridge where everyone was typing on these high tech computers sorta insulted my fascination/intelligence with science fiction too. It felt like there was no purpose rather than showing people pushing keys on shiny toys .

Robby

@taboo:

this movie taught me that if i ever become cripple, i should just kill myself

No taboo, its that you'd better have a genetic double twin sister in the army so you can be put in a clone monster body and become the supreme white man overlord of the savages.

taboo

but i dont so i should just kill myself

Kaiolino

What I don't understand is how people can be so full of hate about this movie to complain about it for 38 pages, yet at the same time genuinely enjoy other trash movies like Green Lantern and Pirates 4, defending it with "just turn your brain off and it's suddenly really fun!".

Hiroy

Good idea. Let's praise this movie for 38 more pages. There's a whole bunch of reasons why we should.

Oh man. I really liked the 3D and the action sequences. Most engaging concept ever. I wished in lived in Na'vi. I'm so not lying to myself right now.

Robby

@Kaiolino:

What I don't understand is how people can be so full of hate about this movie to complain about it for 38 pages,

You realize this thread is two years old and a couple threads merged, right? It had laid dormant for months till some idiot made a brand new thread about it bitching about "why do people say its baaaad?"

The first few pages were actually positive anticipation before the movie came out and discussion about how much it was based on other stories, how good cameron's track record was, and how he was going to defy what we thought about.

Then the movie actually hit and we had about 2 months of hilarious memes.

Then it announced extended scenes on the dvd including hair sex. And sequels.

There's been plenty to talk about. Its no Naruto thread XII by a long shot.

yet at the same time genuinely enjoy other trash movies like Green Lantern and Pirates 4, defending it with "just turn your brain off and it's suddenly really fun!".

Anyone who uses that excuse to justify a bad movie gets smacked. Pirates at least has a sense of fun to it and the characters are likeable. Avatar was complete drudgery, I kept waiting for it to be over and didn't care about any of the characters.

And Avatar takes itself to be a good movie, which it really, really isn't, on a lot of levels. And the injustice of it not only earning 2 billion dollars , but also wasting 3 hours of a viewers time, sting.

Flux

Haha with all this Ebert talk he just posted his Transformers 3 review; summary :

Michael Bay's "Transformers: Dark of the Moon" is a visually ugly film with an incoherent plot, wooden characters and inane dialog. It provided me with one of the more unpleasant experiences I've had at the movies.

Robby

Ebert is a fantastic critic and knows his shit. He's right on the money most of the time and has forgotten more film history than most of us will ever know.

Insider2000

@Kaiolino:

What I don't understand is how people can be so full of hate about this movie to complain about it for 38 pages, yet at the same time genuinely enjoy other trash movies like Green Lantern and Pirates 4, defending it with "just turn your brain off and it's suddenly really fun!".

It's one thing to be a piece of shit action that is made entirely for fan service and pure bullshit enjoyment. That's in the case for Pirates 4. Majority of us aren't really defending GL (I haven't seen it).

It's another thing to approach us and act like you are a movie that is God's gift to this planet, take any shred of fun you have and BURN IT TO THE GROUND with your bullshit moral message that practically spits in our face, and when you walk out of the theater with a bad taste in your mouth and you try to wash it out, you're flooded by people telling you how good the movie was and how they want to see it twelve more times, despite your wishes, who won't listen to your opinion.

I can watch a piece of shit, know it's a piece of shit, walk away knowing it's a piece of shit, and still have a good time. I walked into Avatar thinking it was going to be a piece of shit, and instead I watched a movie that tried too hard to annoy me.

Malintex_Terek

@Flux:

I can feel a storm of sit down bitch's coming your way for making the age old mistake of equating quality of a film to it's financial success.

I was being sarcastic. Note the exaggerated use of bold/italicized text, which I normally don't use.

taboo

@Kaiolino:

What I don't understand is how people can be so full of hate about this movie to complain about it for 38 pages, yet at the same time genuinely enjoy other trash movies like Green Lantern and Pirates 4, defending it with "just turn your brain off and it's suddenly really fun!".

you're right, we should just kill ourselves

Reyairia

@Kaiolino:

What I don't understand is how people can be so full of hate about this movie to complain about it for 38 pages, yet at the same time genuinely enjoy other trash movies like Green Lantern and Pirates 4, defending it with "just turn your brain off and it's suddenly really fun!".

Because at least they admit they're trash.
There's nothing wrong with liking trash as long as you admit you like trash. I'm a very picky eater but even I enjoy the occasional fast food once in a while.
The difference is that in one case you have people liking trash and admitting it's trash, and the other you have people who like a movie and claim it's THE BESTUST MOVIE EVAR.

(Furthermore, Jack Sparrow is a likeable character with flaws, not a dumbass who becomes white man savior in a span of three months)

Just to let you know, I didn't enjoy Green Lantern. I didn't watch it, I figured it was trash from the trailer.

sanji499

@RobbyBevard:

Ebert is a fantastic critic and knows his shit. He's right on the money most of the time and has forgotten more film history than most of us will ever know.

I have watched reviews of Siskel and Ebert recently. Despite being a very old show with two old farts, (boy they were even there to see the first Star Wars) I have loved it. They are passionate, critical, very thoughful and efficient. They were like a couple with brillant chemistry.

Recently, I don't know why he gave SW 3, Avatar, X3 good reviews. You're right that he is usually spot on but these movies were big let down. Ebert without Siskel isn't the same thing for me.

Monkey King

@Kaiolino:

What I don't understand is how people can be so full of hate about this movie to complain about it for 38 pages, yet at the same time genuinely enjoy other trash movies like Green Lantern and Pirates 4, defending it with "just turn your brain off and it's suddenly really fun!".

I hate 75% of the Pirates movies and most Superhero movies so I'm all clear.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Somehow I knew something like this would be brought up. But I don't care, it's missing the point.

Well no we already established that you had no point as there's absolutely nothing Willard and Dullard have in common, unless being in the military was your point which would be something amazing to see. And we also established that boring dude isn't any way shape or form an anti-hero.
Willard isn't even a proper anti-hero, such is the moral ambiguity of Apocalypse Now's themes.
I don't even know what you'd call the boring guy aside from a Gary-Stu.

Here we simply disagree. I think Avatar is an above average popcorn flick (perhaps this is a side effect of growing up in the wasteland of Gore Verbinskis, Michael Bays and Roland Emmericks)

Oh please, I grew up in the worst decade for sci-fi films, the 90's.
I grew up with Godzilla 2000, Lost in Space's remake, and Independence Day.

and well worth a once over especially if that one viewing is in a theater.

What in the fuck is their to see on a second viewing.
You aren't making the remotest of fucking sense. This argument of "you might need to see it again" is something to say for a non-brainless movie. Keep your point consistent.

Robby

@sanji499:

Recently, I don't know why he gave SW 3, Avatar, X3 good reviews. You're right that he is usually spot on but these movies were big let down. Ebert without Siskel isn't the same thing for me.

Ebert tends to give a lot of points to worlds that are created from whole cloth. If there's a ton of creativity on screen and a place that is unlike earth and it looks good, basically something that the man who has seen every movie ever made has never seen before, that'll usually get a star or two from him on sheer imagination and spectacle. World building is an important thing to him, and knowing that about him you can factor that into any of his reviews.

Also don't forget, he can give something 2 and a half stars and it still qualifies as a thumbs up. The 4 star rating is pretty limited in scale. Only compared to a "good/bad" rating is it worth anything.

Worth noting that in X-Men 3, that movie was actually fine, it was mostly bad to people who had any familiarity with the comics and were expecting a giant epic world breaking space faring battle with aliens Phoenix saga, and who were also pissed off by character ___ dying unceremonoiously (and the fans were demanding like 50 mutants from the comics onscreen at that point.) . Otherwise the flik trimmed down the cast to a much smaller core group and focused on them and was stronger for it. Try reading his actual review and see what he liked about it.

Special effects laden movies set on regular ol boring Earth however, he's harsher on.

Monkey King

I'd feel the same generally. But aside from a few scenes Avatar's setting really actually was very boring and cliche.

Hiroy

I found the chase scene with that mammoth thing pretty cool. Movie needed more danger within a natural habitat… less montages... and less montages. Montages were probably the killing point for me as the whole relationship with our dull main character and the dull tribal went into fast forward.

RPGJay

Although I agree Hiroy I also find it hilarious that you want less montages in an already too damn long film.

Hiroy

It's even sadder when the even the montages felt like they were dragging. That's where I feel asleep I think.

Robby

If Avatar had been an hour shorter it would probably have been a much better film. Less time for all the horrendous gaps in logic to rear their head, and it would have been easier to get caught up in the romanticism and spirit of the movie as a thrill ride.

For gods sake, did the ending action sequence REALLY have to be nearly an hour? That stuff gets boring after about 7 minutes nonstop.

Bobjr

I still wonder why that warmech thing had a blade on the side you had to pull out instead of a press a button and a blade comes out the side of the arm kinda deal. But that's just nitpicking.

RPGJay

Maybe it's nitpicking, but there's something just off when that one helicopter pilot chick says the word "bitch" near the end of the movie. I dunno, I think they should've reshot that. It's almost like there's an audible clunk in the dialogue when she swears.

~~Maybe~~ I'm just weird like that.

IDC

how did a two ton machine thats like fifteen feet tall lose to a seven foot blue cat lady thats my question

Kareem Said

I'd love to hear Zephos rip on the Transformers movies, since there's so much to rip on. Ripping on things is Zephos' specialty. And on the (very rare) occasion that he actually likes a work he can come up with good reasons why. He is one of our finest reviewers.

By the way I was joking when I said it was very rare for him to like something. He does like works of fiction. They just have to be good. This "good" is a word that the modern film/comics/television etc. industries seem to have all but forgotten.

For that matter they've never really seemed to understand what they meant.

Sakonosolo

I was almost about to walk out of the theatre when the kitty love interest looks back after the tree was destroyed. I honestly thought that was the end of the movie. But then it just went oooooooooon.

Edit: I don't think Transformers is worth Zephos' words.

Monkey King

I don't even give a fuck about normal Transformers, why would I watch those dumb movies.

Pochipochi

Zephos

I'm Shiah Lebouf irl

are you saying you don't like me…..

Monkey King

You're a wierdo!!!

Pochipochi

you're worthless imo

Monkey King

city_lights31

@Monkey:

Well no we already established that you had no point as there's absolutely nothing Willard and Dullard have in common, unless being in the military was your point which would be something amazing to see. And we also established that boring dude isn't any way shape or form an anti-hero.
Willard isn't even a proper anti-hero, such is the moral ambiguity of Apocalypse Now's themes.
I don't even know what you'd call the boring guy aside from a Gary-Stu.

The point was that a main character doesn't have to be likeable at all if his situation is interesting enough. It was true for Willard in AN and it certainly isn't a stretch that it is true for the Avatar protagonist

Oh please, I grew up in the worst decade for sci-fi films, the 90's.I grew up with Godzilla 2000, Lost in Space's remake, and Independence Day.

I am 22. I grew up with the same shit. Also, Emmerick directed Independence Day.

What in the fuck is their to see on a second viewing.
You aren't making the remotest of fucking sense. This argument of "you might need to see it again" is something to say for a non-brainless movie. Keep your point consistent.

What the hell are you talking about? I said it was worth one viewing. One. One. Not two. Not worth sitting threw twice. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Pochipochi

Kareem Said

I was just thinking about it since the third movie came out and (surprise, surprise) it sucked ass. According to the critics anyway, I should probably actually see it before I judge it but I just know it's terrible. And because there's this annoying kid on my bus who absolutely loves those movies and thinks the third movie will be the greatest movie ever. (No seriously he's said that several times.) He also thinks that live action movies and tv shows are automatically better than animation because they're "real". He also hates reading claiming to be a "visual person" (code for idiot).

I could come up with a myriad of other reasons why this guy is a complete idiot but it'd probably bore you and this isn't the "Kareem Said rants about morons thread." He never comes up with genuine reasons for why he thinks a work of fiction is "awesome" or "stupid" which is the telltale sign of a moron. So I just love seeing people rip on those shitty, shitty Transformers movies which he's too dumb to see the, glaringly obvious, flaws of. Another clear sign of an idiot is when they can't understand a complex work of fiction or someone else who's far smarter than them they automatically proclaim that work or person "stupid".
Ironically "stupid" appears to be the favorite word of stupid people.

I'm sorry for the rant, it really doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand, it just sucks being smart sometimes because most people really aren't smart.

lelandlancaster

@Sakonosolo:

I was almost about to walk out of the theatre when the kitty love interest looks back after the tree was destroyed. I honestly thought that was the end of the movie. But then it just went oooooooooon.

Lmao seriously. I watched this movie for the first time like a month ago and it was okay. Not that great storywise and I've seen prettier animated movies, artwise. It was so fucking long though.

Sniper King

@Kareem:

I was just thinking about it since the third movie came out and (surprise, surprise) it sucked ass. According to the critics anyway, I should probably actually see it before I judge it but I just know it's terrible. And because there's this annoying kid on my bus who absolutely loves those movies and thinks the third movie will be the greatest movie ever. (No seriously he's said that several times.) He also thinks that live action movies and tv shows are automatically better than animation because they're "real". He also hates reading claiming to be a "visual person" (code for idiot).

I could come up with a myriad of other reasons why this guy is a complete idiot but it'd probably bore you and this isn't the "Kareem Said rants about morons thread." He never comes up with genuine reasons for why he thinks a work of fiction is "awesome" or "stupid" which is the telltale sign of a moron. So I just love seeing people rip on those shitty, shitty Transformers movies which he's too dumb to see the, glaringly obvious, flaws of. Another clear sign of an idiot is when they can't understand a complex work of fiction or someone else who's far smarter than them they automatically proclaim that work or person "stupid".
Ironically "stupid" appears to be the favorite word of stupid people.

I'm sorry for the rant, it really doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand, it just sucks being smart sometimes because most people really aren't smart.

Uhh…dude...
…....

Pochipochi

hibari-kun is better than transformers imo

THE SEA

Pochipochi

I think Sea is worse than transformers

imo

Monkey King

@city_lights31:

The point was that a main character doesn't have to be likeable at all if his situation is interesting enough. It was true for Willard in AN and it certainly isn't a stretch that it is true for the Avatar protagonist

You completely missed out on my first response to this point, or you didn't get it.

So here's what you'll know when you finally get around to doing those things. This is a horrible horrible point worthy of Lobster-Pot Sticker in it's dunderheaded insistence of a comparison you're missing the complete point of.

No, Willard and boring are nothing alike. They aren't written alike. They aren't perceived of alike. They aren't whatsoever the same. And boring isn't even unlikable for being a bad person. He's just vaguely frat boyish and vapid.

Pochipochi

Monkey King

Kareem Said

@THE:

Alright I'm going to make a guess as to which movie that is. I'm going with either Ugetsu by Kenji Mizoguchi or Ran by Akira Kurosawa. More so the latter because I'm pretty sure Ugetsu wasn't in color.
I guess I should get back to the main topic. WATCH AN AKIRA KUROSAWA MOVIE. IT'S BETTER THAN BLUE SMURFS ANY DAY. nuff said.

Hiroy

@Kareem:

[Things about idiots and stupid people]

You should just really focus on… your feelings you know? It's alright to trash those that think otherwise, but focusing too much on them. These people won't really help your case when it comes to criticizing the terrible Transformers movies. You sound desperate. Heck, my buddy watched and enjoyed those movies for Megan Fox's little ass and I don't pride myself for thinking he's a idiot.

Pochipochi

guys

this is the transformers topic

please refrain from off topic posting

zephos

Monkey King

Ran came out in 85 and was very polished looking, that looks like something from the 70's.

THE SEA

@Holy:

I think Sea is worse than transformers

imo

What are transformers?

Pochipochi

puri puri

imo .

Kareem Said

@Hiroy:

You should just really focus on… your feelings you know? It's alright to trash those that think otherwise, but focusing too much on them. These people won't really help your case when it comes to criticizing the terrible Transformers movies. You sound desperate. Heck, my buddy watched and enjoyed those movies for Megan Fox's little ass.

You've got a point there, I should develop my own opinions. I'm hoping I can see both Transformers 3 and the Green Lantern movie and criticize them fairly and not try to hate them (I wanted Green Lantern to be good.) The fact that both were panned by critics is definitely a bad sign though. It's still nice to hear what other people whose opinions you respect have to say on the issue though. While I'm at it I'm hoping to see Super 8 because most people said it was pretty good. Personally I like being critical it gives you a better appreciation for the good things. Sorry if I've been random in this thread, it happens sometimes.

Pochipochi

puri puri

Monkey King

Sea grew up forced to watch KarlmarxoBots, brave robots made from the powerful industry of the people that fought against a robot that formed from the entirity of Washington DC.