Who's the sunny pirate with the goatee and ponytail? Don't think I've seen him before.
Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion
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Yeah, great to have you back Kishido. I was banned super early that day, but by using another browser (allowing me to be logged out) let me still read all that went on that day.
Sanji is epic though. I wasn't crazy for him saying he won't forgive Jimbei, but I doubt he will attack Jimbei or anything. These flashbacks are going to be very informative.
I hope next chapter gives us all the info on why the group split. -
Gahhh!
Where did my post go? 45 minutes of extended rambling about war in general and Jinbe's expression in particular and it's vanished when I pressed the post button.sigh
Well, there isn't enough time to recreate it now, so … Silence, Silverblade, boiga -- hold those thoughts. I'll be back this evening with my response to them.
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Huh, new dials. Sortof~
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@Mr.:
Who's the sunny pirate with the goatee and ponytail? Don't think I've seen him before.
He's new, and because of that, I think he's going to wind up playing a very important role in the story. I find it unlikely that Oda just tossed him in there for the sake of filling up the panel. It's especially unlikely since Tansui and Gyaro are pretty heavily obscured behind Chew when they could easily be in this new guy's spot. If Oda had placed a few other no names in there, I could believe that they were there just for the sake of being there. He's the one unknown character among eight other already established characters in one of the most important crews in the series. He's somebody that we should all keep our eye on.
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How didn't I notice that this was out until now? Anyway, this was definitely the best chapter in the arc so far for me. Combining all that's going on in the story now, I can honestly say that I haven't been this excited for OP since the timeskip hiatus.
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So, does the translator take the fact that people will know what the "gaoka" stem means as a given… Or does he not know it himself...?
Nevermind, Jinbe looks awesome with his hair. ;)
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Regarding the "pro and con Sanji in this chapter" debate, I think it was Jerk Disease who mentioned a short time ago that he loves Nami when she is serious but hates her running gag or something. Thats what I basically feel about Sanji. I think he is great when he is serious (for example, all his cool conversations with Usopp in Enies Lobby) but his running gag isn´t always that funny and often annoying (not always, though).
So, I liked him this chapter I thought his reaction was appropriate, too. Luffy wouldn
t talk to his life saver like this and Nami would sound kinda self-righteous talking about her own past like this (also she has every reason to get emotional) but I think it
s good and right for Sanji (or Usopp for that matter) who knows her whole history to get upset on her behalf. Thats what friends are for, man -
@Essam:
Robby i want to ask u something . do we have tournament this year ??
Yeah, the staff's been working on it since December. It's going to be a little shorter this year, and probably going to start around June.
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It warms my heart to see Fisher Tiger
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@Robo:
He's new, and because of that, I think he's going to wind up playing a very important role in the story. I find it unlikely that Oda just tossed him in there for the sake of filling up the panel. It's especially unlikely since Tansui and Gyaro are pretty heavily obscured behind Chew when they could easily be in this new guy's spot. If Oda had placed a few other no names in there, I could believe that they were there just for the sake of being there. He's the one unknown character among eight other already established characters in one of the most important crews in the series. He's somebody that we should all keep our eye on.
I think he may be one of "Jinbe's gang" that was mentioned earlier (twice) in this arc.
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Oh but if Hachi and the Macro gang were all in the Sun pirates together, why did he never berate them for betraying Fisher Tiger's legacy by kidnaping a mermaid to sell as a slave to humans ?
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Wait, that scene where Jimbe remebers the horrors of the slave trade. Do any of you remeber what chapter?
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I never noticed that the Sabaody Park building was the same as Arlong Park's :blink: . Also yay flashback!
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@No:
Oh but if Hachi and the Macro gang were all in the Sun pirates together, why did he never berate them for betraying Fisher Tiger's legacy by kidnaping a mermaid to sell as a slave to humans ?
Hachi himself didn't seem to mind it. He handled Keimi to Macro's gang in exchange for a takoyaki recipe…
Yes, it's strange, but we all knew that Macro was part of the Sunny Pirates. He had the mark after all, and in Hachi's coverstory it's revealed they were old pals.
Wait, that scene where Jimbe remebers the horrors of the slave trade. Do any of you remeber what chapter?
It's just after Jinbe's introduction. Chapter 529.
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Wow!!! Fisher Tiger is so, so, so… less impressive than I thought :(
But whatever, I know I am going to LOVE this flashback. It basically ends my hopes of Hodi joining the crew, but I don't care, I know Jinbe will be a great addition as well (since, after this chapter is pretty obvious that the only person who may join the crew this arc is Jinbe. If it's not him, then it's no one). Specially after his faces last chapter :D
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Wait, that scene where Jimbe remebers the horrors of the slave trade. Do any of you remeber what chapter?
The shot where Mariejoa is on fire ?
That was in Hancock's flashback.
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Luffy was way more interesting than Sanji this chapter. You'd think he'd be the one to show some sort of emotion, despite knowing Jimbei. But instead of running his mouth off he was the calm one, pondering over everything being said. A serious, ambivalent Luffy!?
As for Sanji you get conditional badassery. Would he have reacted the same way if Jimbei were a woman? Or would he take something serious and turn it into a joke like he did with Kalifa? In short it's funny most of the time, but it'll be absolutely terrible if it jeopardizes the welfare of the crew ever again.
And the fishman struggle! I'm seeing shades of history. The situation between Otohime and Fisher Tiger remind me of Frederick Douglass and Martin Delany. Delaney proposed for an integrated and interracial nation believing that assimilation would come with time (Otohime). Fisher Tiger gives a Martin Delaney/John Brown vibe with his violent nationalism thing going on. Oh man, this is cool~
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It's just after Jinbe's introduction. Chapter 529.
Thanks! Not quite like I remembered it. But we should see the true scene of that soon.
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@RPG:
the New fishman pirates are like the black panthers were. by supporting their people and arming themselves.
sorry it just my parents grew up in that era and it fells so familiar to meThis post isn't getting enough love. You're exactly right. The New Fishman Pirates are the Black Panthers. Fisher Tiger's ideology is in line with that of Malcolm X whereas Queen Otohime sounds to be like MLK Jr.
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So, KiShiDo, still thinking Zeo is a good guy now?
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Zeo is a good bad guy
And you thought I was serious xD
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Zeo is a good bad guy
And you thought I was serious xD
A poor attempt at backpediling, for sure.
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@Don:
By showing them that and forcing them to betray their own believe, they create an inner dilemma in those people, which they can use to control them just as they like.
Once robbed of your ideology and thoughts(by making you yourself deny it), you are for them now puppets which you can direct in the way you like it without having to fear that they would someday make a revolution.
Because once you broke their will\belief you no longer have to fear that they could get out ofg it themselves.Interesting depiction Don Q.
Put that way and the NFP seem considerably more insidious than any other groups of enemies yet depicted in OP. Enel had his own thought police and required devotion, but he didn't attack people's self image in as deep a way as these Arlong disciples. The various megalomaniacs, (Arlong included) simply demanded obedience. The NFP on the other hand require strict ideological devotion.
I like the parallels between degrading the conformist strategy of the dead queen with the enforcement of a religious taboo. This fishman power movement isn't just political any more, it's a cult.
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Zeo seems to have learned Soru! See how he ended up behind the crowd without them noticing!?
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@S.C.:
A poor attempt at backpediling, for sure.
LOL yeah for sure… Next time I will try to be more "direct"... only for you
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Well what said that hasn't already been said great chapter.
I had to admit I couldn't help but yell "Dammit Oda!" when I saw the Sabody/Arlong Park similarities. He really is a fantastic author to make a call back to something we didn't even notice. Really says a lot about Arlong too, kinda make you feel slightly sorry for the guy. But like Hachi said, he took it a little too far.
Love the symbolism of the New Fishman Pirates trying to subjugate the inhabitants by forcing them to give up their beliefs. Showing just how strong the depths of their hatred is. But defenseless people is one thing, let's see how strong their hatred is against someone whose not afraid to fight back…
...riiiight after this flashback. Indeed this is already shaping up to be an interesting look into the past. Two conflicting viewpoint that will no doubt lead into consequences for all. Can't wait!
Oh and of course good to see Gaimon doing well. Cute little friend he got there, Jejeje.
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Luffy was way more interesting than Sanji this chapter. You'd think he'd be the one to show some sort of emotion, despite knowing Jimbei. But instead of running his mouth off he was the calm one, pondering over everything being said. A serious, ambivalent Luffy!?
I agree, of course, but in the end Luffy will still pick sides based on the dream of the princess.
The logical thing for the captain to decide in this instance is for Luffy and crew to pack up their boat and head on to the new world. This was Zoro's intention and now that they will soon be reunited at the Forest and the ship is coated, they can be on their way. Jinbe wants them out of the way and they have no stake in this fight. In fact, Luffy might even sympathize with the NFP for fighting against the WG for their place in the sunlit world.
But the scaredy cat princess is going to man up and fight for nonviolent human/fishmen reconciliation (Isn't that something a scaredy cat would fight for?) and luffy will help her. In part because he promised to protect her until she makes it back home (in time for dinner) but more because fighting for the dreams of others is what he does.
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Fisher Tiger being Malcom X and the queen being MLK Jr is an awesome point. I hadn't thought of it that way.
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Absolutely wonderful chapter.
Great setup for an assuredly great flashback! -
Zeo seems to have learned Soru! See how he ended up behind the crowd without them noticing!?
Praying for this to be a joke.
But on that subject, it may have been stated already but I'm banking on Zeo having a sort of camouflage-ability, relating to his inspiration, the carpet/wobbegong shark, which excels at disguising itself on the seafloor to catch prey.
Truly incredible chapter; I've never been so excited for a flashback. I think the Sabaody/Arlong Park resemblance is insanely cool, and I feel like a large part of the flashback is going to offer evidence to Arlong's motivation for his actions (not in a redeemable sense, no, but in an interesting one. Getting inside the minds of the villains is one of my favourite parts of this manga.)
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^ And all the more because the Arlong Park arc was the turning point for One Piece.
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Awesome chapter, iam really looking forward to this new flashback. Will this Flashback be "join the Strawhat crew" material?
Pandaman spotted :)
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Awesome chapter, iam really looking forward to this new flashback. Will this Flashback be "join the Strawhat crew" material?
Pandaman spotted :)
Jesus Christ, already?
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Can someone with a better memory help me here. The flashback took place 15 years ago, would that be around the same time Arlong invaded East Blue? If so, then we're about to see how Tiger died sooner than I expect.
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Will this Flashback be "join the Strawhat crew" material?
Absolutely not. The focus of the flashback will clearly be on opposing views of Fisher Tiger and Queen Otohime on obtaining the same goal. It's going to be a world building flashback akin to the one we got for Skypiea. This flashback is about to unveil details of events that lead to some of the most important plot threads in all of One Piece. It's not going be cheapened by a focus on one character that will end up on the crew.
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I'm really digging the MLK Jr./Malcolm X comparison to Queen Otohime/Fisher Tiger's methods to resolve their people's plight.
I think we're going to see a different side of Jinbei in this flashback, one more ideologically in line with Fisher Tiger/Arlong/Hodi's militant approach to human/fishman relations.
I expect that the Sun Pirates, or at least some of their high-ups, had something to do with Queen Otohime's assassination (maybe Tiger himself, but I'm still not sure when his own death occurred in relation to the Queen's), with the murder itself or the lead-up to it being what ultimately broke the crew up, and likely what turned Jinbei into the man he is now. I think those who followed Arlong were likely ones who, if not directly involved, agreed with the assassination of Otohime and breaking off any thoughts of reconciliation with humans, while those who followed Jinbei were those who were swayed into Otohime's camp, whether before or after her death.
I'm also expecting that Arlong's being "set loose" by Jinbei was actually intended as exile, getting the war-mongering elements as far from Fishman Island and the seat of the World Government as possible, while Jinbei used his new position as a Shichibukai to try and rekindle the late Queen's wishes of peaceful reconciliation. That Arlong turned this exile into the beginnings of his plans of conquest was likely an unintended consequence, something that has been eating at Jinbei ever since.
Can someone with a better memory help me here. The flashback took place 15 years ago, would that be around the same time Arlong invaded East Blue? If so, then we're about to see how Tiger died sooner than I expect.
If I recall correctly, Arlong conquered Nami's hometown eight years prior to the start of the story, making it roughly ten years ago post-timeskip. So this flashback is, in turn, about four or five years before that.
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Fisher Tiger being Malcom X and the queen being MLK Jr is an awesome point. I hadn't thought of it that way.
I thought of that once I heard about their different ideologies, though I do admit that Jinbei's possible parallel with X being brought up before helps.
Really dark, looking too deeply into symbolism prediction
And maybe they were both murdered by people who didn't like either ideology (since it advanced Fishmen interests in some way).
And man, shit just got dark this chapter. The word terrorism even crossed my mind when I saw the Fish Men forcing others to step on a picture of their beloved Fish Queen. It really is turning into a cult. And Caribou…there's just no way he can still have supporters. Just no way. And I dread to see how he will take advantage of this situation. Of all the humans the Hodi pirates DIDN'T catch. -
Ponx: It was talked about in ch619's thread Arlong invaded Nami's village 10 years ago (8+ 2 timeskip). We dn't know how
long he has spent in EB prior to this but Jinbei said he unleashed Arlong 11 years ago.
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Absolutely not. The focus of the flashback will clearly be on opposing views of Fisher Tiger and Queen Otohime on obtaining the same goal. It's going to be a world building flashback akin to the one we got for Skypiea. This flashback is about to unveil details of events that lead to some of the most important plot threads in all of One Piece. It's not going be cheapened by a focus on one character that will end up on the crew.
And not necessarily collides with a Strawhat-joining-type-flashback. It will obviously be about all the things u've said, AND how it affect the entire fishman/merman, Arlong clearly is the extremist of Tiger's view, and we see that people are hesitant about the Fumi-e, that means that the Queen still has respect of her people. But the most interesting here is Jimbe, he was one of the Sun Pirates, meaning he is very much familiar with Tiger's ideas; but him joining the Shichibukai definitely collides with Tiger. What happened?? Queen Otohime must've changed his view somewhat, I believe that in Jimbe we see a merging between the 2 idealism; and certainly one powerful enough to stand up for his own idealism
Ponx: It was talked about in ch619's thread Arlong invaded Nami's village 10 years ago (8+ 2 timeskip). We dn't know how
long he has spent in EB prior to this but Jinbei said he unleashed Arlong 11 years ago.
Ah thanks for clearing it up, that means we get to see the Sun Pirates in action and lots of build up before Tiger's demise
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Meh I'm one of those people who enjoyed Sanji finally being serious, maybe when he learns of the events that happened in the War hey'll cool down a little with Jinbe. I think I loved how Luffy acted the most here though. Next week after the flashbacks end we should either be dealing with
A. Luffy's group learning about what happened to Zoro's group and off to save them
Or
B. Dealing with that mermaid stealing freak, how the heck is that guy going to take the princess? She's so big! He must be insane! I could see oddly enough, him teaming up with Decken but than again both have different goals, one wants to kill her and the other wants to steal her and make money off of her. Still, they could both attack at once.
Over all a good chapter.
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Sanji taking a stand was great. Finally got to see Fisher Tiger.
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@RobbyBevard:
Yeah, the staff's been working on it since December. It's going to be a little shorter this year, and probably going to start around June.
Is fisher Tiger eligible now that he's made an appearance? My bet is either Sabo or FT will win the next one.
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This takes place 15 years ago, right? If I recall correctly the assassination of the queen happened 5 years later. I wonder if there will be 2 separated flashbacks, one about Fisher Tiger, and one about Otohime.
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They will probably make a little timeskipping in the flashback.
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The fact that Macro was one of the founding members of Tiger's crew, and not some Sun-pirate wannabe that wore the tattoo, makes him the most despicable fishman ever.
In my opinion.Not only is he a traitor to his own kind, but also to his captain's ideal.
Bring him back into the story and BURN HIM AT STAKE. -
No doubt someone has already pointed this out, but I noticed that we have actually seen three of those Fishmen (shown in the flashback) before!
http://manga.animea.net/one-piece-chapter-492-page-7.html
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/83002268/18EDIT: oops, JUST beaten to it
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Don't forget about Vander Decken's grandpa. I'm sure the guy had an important role in this story, or else he would not have been mentioned.
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The fact that Macro was one of the founding members of Tiger's crew, and not some Sun-pirate wannabe that wore the tattoo, makes him the most despicable fishman ever.
In my opinion.Not only is he a traitor to his own kind, but also to his captain's ideal.
Bring him back into the story and BURN HIM AT STAKE.He's too weak and pathetic to even matter at this point. Hopefully Hatchi sent them flying to the nearest marine stronghold.
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Wow interesting chapter. I like where Oda's going. Will be interesting to see how he now fleshes out Arlong and how Nami will deal with that. And Arlong's motivations for building Arlong Park were quite poignant.
Also Gaimon and Sarfunkel is hilarious!