Naruto Thread IV

[Zack]

@youngjustice20:

RPGjay Explain to me how a hater of women makes them leader of a whole villages?

Being leaders doesn't make them useless. Tsunade's been useless for a while now, and she's going to willingly stand down for Naruto once this arc's done. What's the other female leader done by now? He doesn't hate women. He just sucks at knowing how to write them.

@Sheep its not that OP or DBZ wasn't good at it.its being a hypocrite thats make me mad. Oda god fanboy when Oda isn't any god and makes mistakes too.

Nami and Robin can fight as well as being very good at their particular jobs.
DBZ had Bulma who was an expert at building the machines that helped out the main cast. It had Android 18 who kicked ass, and then as much ass as the rest of the side cast did after that at that point anyway. There's also Videl who even though was never powerful was still very well written.

[Sheep]

@youngjustice20:

@Sheep its not that OP or DBZ wasn't good at it.its being a hypocrite thats make me mad. Oda god fanboy when Oda isn't any god and makes mistakes too.
I just come here to talk naruto. Why would i care about people insulting me over the internet? Wats that going to do make me cry?

Go to a Naruto forum to talk about Naruto, there is nothing for you to gain here.
I mean, you can go to a place where people are more like you and have more friendly conversations, instead of….
whatever the fuck this abomination is.

[Robby]

You guys won't understand this message for about a week. But.

Let it be known that it was Juju that convinced me to go through with it.

[RPGJay]

You are serious. This amuses me.

Seriously I could forgive your delusions about Naruto being good and all but how could you not see the amazing sexism in Naruto?

Well I could name a specific microcosm of everything sexist about Naruto but I know you're just going to say I'm blowing out of proportion an isolated example.

So I'll at least address your question about why there are two female kages (Mizukage and Hokage). Just because there are female leaders in Naruto does not mean they are capable or good representations of women.

Well without getting into that the Mizukage is a flat (figuretively) and bland character whose entire schtick is she feels she's getting too old to get married or whatever, I want you to answer something:

Name a single significant thing the Mizukage has actually done in the story.

Seriously. TRY to think of anything the Mizukage brought to the story. Hell that old man kage who could fly and shit did more than the Mizukage ever did. And I'm not really going to address Tsunade and her cababilities of being a leader and all. Cause we're not really here about how Tsunade's "capabilities" of leading.

You are seriously trying to say that women aren't pushed to the side, outright forgotten, or don't do anything to actually contribute to the series. Can you honestly say that statement is wrong?

[Zack]

@RPGJay:

You are serious. This amuses me.

Seriously I could forgive your delusions about Naruto being good and all but how could you not see the amazing sexism in Naruto?

Well I could name a specific microcosm of everything sexist about Naruto but I know you're just going to say I'm blowing out of proportion an isolated example.

Without looking, this is the page where Sakura says she'll just leave everything up to Naruto and Sasuke isn't it?:ninja:

[RPGJay]

Actually no.

Everyone lets play a game. Don't click the link I put in my previous post. Guess which sexist moment I posted. Perhaps the number of times a certain example gets pointed out and/or a number of other sexist moments y'all guess will drive our point through Juju's thick skull.

[Zack]

@RPGJay:

Actually no.

Everyone lets play a game. Don't click the link I put in my previous post. Guess which sexist moment I posted. Perhaps the number of times a certain example gets pointed out and/or a number of other sexist moments y'all guess will drive our point through Juju's thick skull.

You should edit that in on your post. That sounds like a fun game.

[Crossword]

Looking at the chapter number, I'm going to guess it's the whole ''your duty is to have a grandchild'' bit from the flashback.

[Robby]

@RPGJay:

Well I could name a specific microcosm of everything sexist about Naruto but I know you're just going to say I'm blowing out of proportion an isolated example.

Without checking the link, my guess would be that amazing fight Ten Ten had during the chunin exams.

Possibly the Sakura and Ino fight which was ultimately decided on by the length of their hair, and ended as a tie.

Or maybe that other chunin exam fight where a girl didn't fight another girl and won by means other than forfeit.

[Saturn Beaver]

I was actually waiting for Juju to reply, but he seems to have gone and there's no way he's worth me staying longer than 2 AM waiting for him, so I'll just leave things for now. Still, I have to agree with what Kareem Said wrote, it's less about Kishi being sexist than he is being a terrible writer in general. That is, there's a lot of side character being left on the wayside or not being developed nowhere near enough to make them a good, interesting character, and it just so happens that amongst the few that actually went through and becomes fan favorites, like Rock Lee and Raikage, none of these few are women. I guess rather than hate, the more precise saying is that Kishi doesn't care about her women characters, never really bothered to do something good for them, or just simply ignoring and neglecting them when it seems things are going better.

[Aaronrules380]

@RobbyBevard:

Or maybe that other chunin exam fight where a girl didn't fight another girl and won by means other than forfeit.

I must have missed that one. I'm guessing it happened around the time tenten did anything :ninja:

[Hisoga]

@Outerspec:

Could you offer up any proof as to how this was unplanned? The best way to go about this is to show me at least 1 plothole which was created thanks to Kishi suddenly making Itachi "redeemable", in some people's eyes, thanks to his little sob story reveal by Madara. Of course I should not be able to counteract your argument and the plothole has to be an actual plothole.

.

When kishi tied Itachi story with Danzo. Danzo doesn't even exist in part1. and what kareem said.

[roronoa3000]

Sakura = useless
Hinata = useless :sad:/ Future lesbian
Tenten = beyond useless :sad:
Tsunade = giant rack/ been useless since Part 1
Anko = pretty much useless beside fuel for Kabuto
Semi-Attractive female Kage = aint done anything yet
Temari = useless since Part 1
Ino = semi useful
:ninja:

[Outerspec]

@Hisoga:

When kishi tied Itachi story with Danzo. Danzo doesn't even exist in part1. and what kareem said.

Wait, what? Can you further explain how Danzo not appearing in the first part of the story has anything to do with Kishi supposedly not planning for Itachi's redemption? Mind you Danzo appeared over 100 chapters well in advance of Itachi's backstory.

[Aaronrules380]

Can anyone name one time tenten has done anything relevant (offscreen doesn't count either)? Anything at all. Just one thing? Because I really, really can't

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Outerspec:

Wait, what? Can you further explain how Danzo not appearing in the first part of the story has anything to do with Kishi supposedly not planning for Itachi's redemption? Mind you Danzo appeared over 100 chapters well in advance of Itachi's backstory.

I think what he is getting at is Danzo in himself is proof Kishi didn't think everything through start to end, because if he did, then Danzo should have been in the running for Hokage, if not outright promoted, after the 3rd died.

[Robby]

@roronoa3000:

Sakura = useless
Hinata = useless :sad:/ Future lesbian
Tenten = beyond useless :sad:
Tsunade = giant rack/ been useless since Part 1
Anko = pretty much useless beside fuel for Kabuto
Semi-Attractive female Kage = aint done anything yet
Temari = useless since Part 1
Ino = semi useful
:ninja:

Tsunade's sidekick- one shotted by Pain for no reason
Kiba's mom- looks exactly like Kiba, has done nothing
Konan- Makes rainbow bridges and 600 billion exploding tags that don't work. Also, turns into paper in a rain village and is defeated by being spit on.
that girl from Sasuke's team- Whatever her name was. Used for btie fetishisits and the worst panty shot in history. Who Sasuke later tried to kill.
Haku-prettiest girl in the series, actually a guy
Naruto-has a naked girl jutsu. Actually a guy.
Konohamaru-has a naked girl jutsu. Actually a guy.
Orochimaru- had a girl form for… some reason.
Sai-has a naked boy jutsu. Uhm...
Sasuke-Only on screen kiss in the series, with a guy.

@Aaronrules380:

Can anyone name one time tenten has done anything relevant (offscreen doesn't count either)? Anything at all. Just one thing? Because I really, really can't

Does the anime, fanfic or fanart count?

[Kareem Said]

I remember Kishi once saying something about Anko being his favorite female character. She's appeared about three times. That probably says a lot about how he feels about women.

[RPGJay]

Didn't she get like captured offscreen just to be used for the resurrection thingy lol

[WarshipArc]

@Kareem:

I remember Kishi once saying something about Anko being his favorite female character. She's appeared about three times. That probably says a lot about how he feels about women.

Words cannot describe how disappointed I was when Kishi pulled her out of limbo only to shove her in the fridge. :getlost:

[Outerspec]

@S.C.:

I think what he is getting at is Danzo in himself is proof Kishi didn't think everything through start to end, because if he did, then Danzo should have been in the running for Hokage, if not outright promoted, after the 3rd died.

I see, well then it's understandable Kishi didn't think everything through from start to finish, but on the specific Itachi case he did have a plan. What I'm saying is Itachi's redemption wasn't Kishi's last minute impromptu gesture on behalf of Itachi fans. Danzo may have been a relatively late addition to the plan but appearing over 100 chapters before this all went down and Kishi showing us how twisted the guy was in that amount of time was sufficient enough. Speaking of time over 100 chapters is a good 2 years.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Outerspec:

I see, well then it's understandable Kishi didn't think everything through from start to finish, but on the specific Itachi case he did have a plan. What I'm saying is Itachi's redemption wasn't Kishi's last minute impromptu gesture on behalf of Itachi fans. Danzo may have been a relatively late addition to the plan but appearing over 100 chapters before this all went down and Kishi showing us how twisted the guy was in that amount of time was sufficient enough. Speaking of time over 100 chapters is a good 2 years.

So, from the gist of this post, you admit Kishi didn't think everything through, leading to sloppy retcons like Madara being behind everything, even JFK, and the Uchihas suddenly becoming pariahs, but definetly, Itachi was always a good guy, not just because legions of screaming teenage girls demanded it so their slash fics of him could encompass the good guys as well.

And when, when a leader of a village is gone, and you forget to add someone who has a lot of his hooks into many things until afterwords, yeah that's not a good thing.

[Kareem Said]

@S.C.:

So, from the gist of this post, you admit Kishi didn't think everything through, leading to sloppy retcons like Madara being behind everything, even JFK, and the Uchihas suddenly becoming pariahs, but definetly, Itachi was always a good guy, not just because legions of screaming teenage girls demanded it so their slash fics of him could encompass the good guys as well.

And yeah, when a leader of a village is gone, and you forget to add someone who has a lot of his hooks into many things until afterwords, yeah that's not a good thing.

I agree, I always wondered where Danzou was in part 1 with all of the major events in Konoha. We should have at least seen him. He wasn't even mentioned. The reason he wasn't mentioned is because Kishi hadn't thought of him yet. It is pretty bad when a character so integral to the series' plot isn't introduced until about 300 chapters in to the manga.

[Cyan D. Funk]

@Kareem:

I remember Kishi once saying something about Anko being his favorite female character. She's appeared about three times. That probably says a lot about how he feels about women.

yJxCdh1Ps48&feature=related

[Hisoga]

@Outerspec:

Wait, what? Can you further explain how Danzo not appearing in the first part of the story has anything to do with Kishi supposedly not planning for Itachi's redemption? Mind you Danzo appeared over 100 chapters well in advance of Itachi's backstory.

its like what s.c.amigo said. and its ok to make up some story along the line but, don 't make it too obvious. Sasuke is one of the main character and his potentially back story already been shown from the very beginning, his hatred towards an unknown uchiha- his own brother. so sasuke- itachi part of the story are very important to the manga, and if kishi actually really plan itachi is a good guy all along, he must at least introduce whatever possible directly or indirectly hints or potential individual or forces to be use in the future and this case is danzo and umbi. but the problem is danzo and umbi doesn't even exist in part1, so how the hell Kishi can tied Itachi part of the story with Danzo and Umbi without retcon the story?

if and only if, kishi even introduce Danzo and umbi in part1 indirectly without any hint that danzo or umbi have a connection with Itachi, and in this case, the best timing to introduce danzo and umbi is after oro attacking konoha, Sarutobi's death and his replacement, that is good enough for me. just introduce, no need to explain or give us any info on danzo or a story, is good enough for me.

[Nobodyman]

@RPGJay:

Didn't she get like captured offscreen just to be used for the resurrection thingy lol

And if I recall correctly she got sucked up Kabuto's ass.

[Daz]

Do I really have to adress the continuity issues of Itachi being a good guy all along? Sigh.

Really?

Off the top of my head:

• Itachi did all he ever did because "he was a kid during war". Thats his unique backstory, that somehow sets him apart from all the other Uchihas that grew up during the war. Itachi didn't even lose any relatives. Thats piss poor weak motivation.

• In order to take out the Uchihas, rather than joining up with some of Konohas other covert ops individuals, Itachi goes to find Madara. Whom he for some reason knows is still alive. And whom he finds by walking into the woods. Thats some insane stretch of suspension of disbelief.

• Madara agrees to kill his own clan. Despite the reason he left Konoha being because he was pissed the Uchihas WEREN'T revolting. If anything, he should have been happy. Also, the Elders don't seem to realize that a century old infamous criminal is assisting Itachi. And Madara states that "he was looking for an excuse for war" and "wanted to take revenge on the leaf", but acts completely opposite to those wishes.

• Itachis actions were done in order to prevent another Ninja world war, which could happen if the Uchiha coup weakened Konoha, and other nations jumped at the chance. Yet no nation jumps at the chance given by an entire clan of super powerful eyball wankers dissapearing overnight.

• We never even hear what the Uchiha coup d'etat plan was. If it was just about taking over the village they could do that by framing the leaders, and with Itachi, Madara, perhaps even the Kyuubi on their side, a Konoha where Itachi sided with the Uchiha in their coup could have been stronger than an Uchiha-clan less one. Plus, Itachi wouldn't have to kill everyone he loved.

• Itachi adopted the status of Super Criminal despite being a bona fide hero. Yes, he kills his family, but that makes him an even greater hero. It shouldn't have been hard to get evidence of the Uchiha plot, and if that wasn't enough, frame them to make them seem an even bigger threat. It might have caused some mixed feelings, but I don't think the public would have been completely outraged.

• What was the point of Itachi and Kisame fighting Guy, Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai. Why did kakashi need to be tortured. Why did Itachi and Kisame track down Naruto if he was working against Akatsuki from the inside.
  What was the point of ANY of that if Itachi was a good guy.

• Why did Itachi capture the four tails. In fact, why didn't he seem to do any damage to akatsuki at all, rather the contrary. In all his years there, he never made a single move against mister Can't-let-my-brother-meet-this-extreme–swirlymasked-bastard.

• where does Madara know all this from anyway?

[ChesCa]

I just realized: Kabuto injected himself with Orochimaru juice and I never questioned it.
But now, I wonder why the hell it's needed in the first place. Couldn't Kabuto just do his own damn thing without becoming Orochimaru Jr?
I'm willing to bet he could've gotten snake powers through other means without becoming this weird fanboy of his boss.

[Outerspec]

@S.C.:

So, from the gist of this post, you admit Kishi didn't think everything through, leading to sloppy retcons like Madara being behind everything, even JFK, and the Uchihas suddenly becoming pariahs, but definetly, Itachi was always a good guy, not just because legions of screaming teenage girls demanded it so their slash fics of him could encompass the good guys as well.

Actually, Madara being involved in the Uchiha Massacre was hinted back in Part 1.

Chapter 225

! Chapter 385

!

As for Madara being behind everything both Jiraiya and Minato believed Madara was still alive and working behind the scenes somehow.

! Now, you're right I do admit Kishi did not think of "everything". It's practically impossible for any author to think of everything from begenning to end. My point is though that Kishi did have the outline planned ouit well in advance. That outline being Itachi's "redemption".

And when, when a leader of a village is gone, and you forget to add someone who has a lot of his hooks into many things until afterwords, yeah that's not a good thing.

Both Tsunade and Jiraiya (2 of the legendary 3 sanin) were alive at the time of the 3rd's death. Of course any of those 2 would be chosen before Danzou. The only reason that Danzou was chosen as the 6th Hokage was because the Daiymo was stumped on who should take over as Hokage until Tsunade recovers. Tsunade was in a coma and Jiraiya was dead. That's why the emergency meeting was held and that gave Danzou the chance he was looking for.

@Kareem:

I agree, I always wondered where Danzou was in part 1 with all of the major events in Konoha. We should have at least seen him. He wasn't even mentioned. The reason he wasn't mentioned is because Kishi hadn't thought of him yet. It is pretty bad when a character so integral to the series' plot isn't introduced until about 300 chapters in to the manga.

Maybe so, but again, Danzo was added to the story 2 years before the Itachi "redemption" went down. That's well in advance. Besides, Danzo was just the 3rd elder who ordered Itachi to do the Uchiha massacre. The first 2 elders were introduced in Part 1 of the series. So Kishi already had 2 out of 3 of the people who ordered Itachi to do the massacre in the storyline if I'm not mistaken.

! It's not like Danzou was the only person who ordered the massacre and thus Kishi could not have planned out Itachi's sob story in advance because Danzou was never there in Part 1. Even without Danzou the massacre could have still happened thanks to the other 2 elders introduced in Part 1.

–--------------------------------------------

I'll get to the other posts later. I have to get some work done. What's the point of having an internship if you don't wrok...

[Strawhat Chan]

@Outerspec:

Actually, Madara being involved in the Uchiha Massacre was hinted back in Part 1.

Chapter 225

! http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8214/narutoch225p04.jpg

Speaking of this scan, it doesn't seem right. The way Itachi is talking, what he's saying. What truth? It can't be the truth that he tried hide from him. It's seem like Itachi really was a bad guy, but with a soft spot for his brother if anything. Why did he have to kill the WHOLE clan? Some didn't even have the Sharingan, and I doubt they were aware of Fugaku's plans.

[youngjustice20]

Damn Outspec and me vs everyone.

@Kareem Where did they say Hinata was weaker then Kiba? Ino just told Choji to man up last chapter because he a bitch and she isn't. Sakura is obviously going to be weaker then the two main characters. Temari isn't weak. Ten ten is just a lost cause through. lol and you still have not responded to outspec post on 478. I waiting for the response. I don't forget. unless you erase 220-223 you won't respond will you? Those chapters basically killed anything you can come up with. Respond to my post about it on page 479 too.
@Robby oh maybe the links of shikiamaru losing to a girl oh shit impossible. Most people say shikiamaru is Kishi favorite character, but wait this guy lose to a girl and was saved by one WTF? na impossible Temari
@RPGJAY My mom tells me she wants grandkids too. WTH does a father telling someone that sexism? Parents do that all the time. Was my mom telling me i only good for giving sperm? Yes you are blowing it out. Why does it matter if Mizkage wants to get married/boyfriend? Doesn't Jman run around calling out to girls. Doesn't Shikiamaru just wants to be lazy and get married with a quiet life? Naruto chases girls too. He even goes into their bathrooms. Why can boys chase girls but girls can't do the same? atleast the Mizkage doesn't get distracted like Jman and attacked Sasuke quick. While jman was drunk on a genjutsu girl and almost let Naruto get captured. What kind of crazy double standard is this?

She beat the shit out of Sasuke and went through Sasnoo when Gaara,Kankoro, etc.. couldn't do shit to it. She stopped talks with Asksuki members in her village. She protecting the Ferderal lords who run everything. hmm Tsaunde makes mistakes like every Hokage in the damn book. Why do people keep having double standards? Tye 3rd let Oro go free and Failed to come up with a agreement. The 2nd spyed on uchia etc…. Just like rulers in real life they don't make the right decision everytime. Why should Tsaunde be better because she a girl? So every Hokage should make mistakes but Tsaunde shouldn't. U got to be shitting me.
@Saturn I will reply in my next post. You actually have some strong points unlike your fellow members.

Damn Outspec and me vs everyone.

@Kareem Where did they say Hinata was weaker then Kiba? Ino just told Choji to man up last chapter because he a bitch and she isn't. Sakura is obviously going to be weaker then the two main characters. Temari isn't weak. Ten ten is just a lost cause through. lol and you still have not responded to outspec post on 478. I waiting for the response. I don't forget. unless you erase 220-223 you won't respond will you? Those chapters basically killed anything you can come up with. Respond to my post about it on page 479 too.
@Robby oh maybe the links of shikiamaru losing to a girl oh shit impossible. Most people say shikiamaru is Kishi favorite character, but wait this guy lose to a girl and was saved by one WTF? na impossible Temari
@RPGJAY My mom tells me she wants grandkids too. WTH does a father telling someone that sexism? Parents do that all the time. Was my mom telling me i only good for giving sperm? Yes you are blowing it out. Why does it matter if Mizkage wants to get married/boyfriend? Doesn't Jman run around calling out to girls. Doesn't Shikiamaru just wants to be lazy and get married with a quiet life? Naruto chases girls too. He even goes into their bathrooms. Why can boys chase girls but girls can't do the same? atleast the Mizkage doesn't get distracted like Jman and attacked Sasuke quick. While jman was drunk on a genjutsu girl and almost let Naruto get captured. What kind of crazy double standard is this?

She beat the shit out of Sasuke and went through Sasnoo when Gaara,Kankoro, etc.. couldn't do shit to it. She stopped talks with Asksuki members in her village. She protecting the Ferderal lords who run everything. hmm Tsaunde makes mistakes like every Hokage in the damn book. Why do people keep having double standards? Tye 3rd let Oro go free and Failed to come up with a agreement. The 2nd spyed on uchia etc.... Just like rulers in real life they don't make the right decision everytime. Why should Tsaunde be better because she a girl? So every Hokage should make mistakes but Tsaunde shouldn't. U got to be shitting me.
@Saturn I will reply in my next post. You actually have some strong points unlike your fellow members.

[Robby]

@Kareem:

It is pretty bad when a character so integral to the series' plot isn't introduced until about 300 chapters in to the manga.

Lets not forget element affinity that didn't come up until well into part 2. Ripping off the test from HxH note for note, shredded leaf and all… Before that element affinity had never been mentioned before.

When really its something new students should be tested for immediately, the first day out, just so the teacher knows, even if they don't get around to the actual lessons for a couple years. Certainley shouldn't hae waited until after 3 years of timeskip training for Naruto.

Right after that, the next two or three fights absolutely hinged on it (Earth being weak to electric still makes no sense) and then it was promptly discarded again after Naruto discovered he could make a rasengan that tears things apart at the cellular level.

(For that matter, Kakashi should have come up with the 1000 clones training sooner too. Wait, suddenly Naruto remembers everything all his clones did, all he NEVER noticed, after making hundreds of them at a time for four years?)

@youngjustice20:

@Robby oh maybe the links of shikiamaru losing to a girl oh shit impossible. Most people say shikiamaru is Kishi favorite character, but wait this guy lose to a girl and was saved by one WTF? na impossible Temari

I mentioned the shikimaru and temari match by noting there needed to be an example that WASN'T a forfeit. Shikimaru dominated his match against Temari the entire time, out thought her the entire time, battled at his own pace, didn't take a single wound, and won. Then he forfeited at the end because it was too much trouble to go onto the next round. Not the same as a loss or being overpowered or giving it his all or even making an attempt when he thought there might be a need for some actual work.

Not to mention he outright defeated every other girl he faced, which was actually his running gag for a while.

While every other girl at the chunin exam either fought another girl, or lost. And two of the girls that fought each other BOTH lost! After talking about flowers and how long their hair was! How does that even work?

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Outerspec:

Both Tsunade and Jiraiya (2 of the legendary 3 sanin) were alive at the time of the 3rd's death. Of course any of those 2 would be chosen before Danzou. The only reason that Danzou was chosen as the 6th Hokage was because the Daiymo was stumped on who should take over as Hokage until Tsunade recovers. Tsunade was in a coma and Jiraiya was dead. That's why the emergency meeting was held and that gave Danzou the chance he was looking for.

Jiraiya at the time was solely a porn peddler and Tsunade was a drunk with a gambling addiction. Danzo was still the leader of Root, and thought of highly. Power equals rule is one thing, the practaclity of choosing two yahoos over a functioning member of the community is another.

[youngjustice20]

@Robby Whats your point? So what if it came up in part 2? Just because a author expands on something down the line doesn't make it bad. The element affinity went with everything that was shown in the manga so far. I mean everything. For someone who thought of something on the spot it sure connected great with all of part 1. He expanded on how Kekki Genki works and why the sharingan can't copy it. Has Naruto done chidori? Why couldn't Kakashi teach him before with Sasuke? LOL Like i said before if Kishi says Fire beats water in the narutoverse then thts a fact in his verse. Just like only Luffy can bite his hands and go Gear 3(Even through its complete nonsense how it works.), but manga artist set verse standards. Kishi says lightning>Earth a Fact in narutoverse. Kishi says teleportation=fast movement a fact in the Naruto verse. It doesn't have to make sense Robby its not pokemon. Last time i checked it said Naruto. How does resenshirken discard anything that was established?

Why would Kishi spend a 50 chapters on showing all of Kakashi move? Naruto is a idiot thats why he doesn't notice. He doesn't even know when someone is pregnant at stuff.You like to nitpick on Insignificant things. So i will do the same for OP

A ship can have emotions was indroduced just to rescue them. Why didn't they indroduced this way back when they first got the ship? just so they can use in arc that follows right next so the magic ship can sail through a freaking storm/Buster MOFO buster call.
Why the hell didn't the guards seea giant freaking axe in the room after Van der throw it and seach the place?
Hey Law randomly comes to save Luffy after meeting him for 2 seconds. Luffy didn't do shit for him oh lets not forget the supernova who decides to help is a great doctor when luffy is in need of immediate recovery. Wat a coincidence. GTFO
G2 coming out of no where. Sanji heat not affecting him because he a cook.
Another thing does Oda know WTF he is doing with Luffy durability? Impact dail hurts him?? If you having relize by now that Luffy durability is plot induced. Very inconsistent with his durability.
Luffy biting his hands makes no sense. Why when someone else bites him he doesn't go G3? Why isn't the air coming out of the bite part.
Ok i am going to stop their i could go on, but i won't because the butthurt will get stronger

[youngjustice20]

Robby wat are you talking about? I was talking about this when shikiamaru lose and Temari saved him.

Even when shikiamaru trys to be sexist, but she plays the shit out of him and one shots her.(NOTE:Shikiamaru is clearly sexist i know this, but thats just his personality. He doesn't think women should be protecting him. Other characters like Naruto wouldn't have the same reaction to a girl saving them.) Jman take her on a date.
@The Daz HAAA Why does Itachi have to lose relatives to be affected by war. Soliders come back and are crazy because the things they see and did. How do you know his cosins or something didn't die in a war. Itachi doesn't like war

You got to be kidding me right. Madara is a freaking lair. How much time does he have to lie for u to understand this? He tells people watever benefits him. He lies to pein, Sasuke, Etc… Madara is a war mongol and does things for the lol He wasn't happy because he wasn't the leader. Madara won't be telling the truth until his final battle where Kishi goes in depth on WTF is up with him.

A civil war would of been worse and killed more people which would of given the nations a better chance to attack Remember not only the Uchia would revolt, Some people in the leaf would take their side too. This is why they covered it up. It was feared that would happen. You are acting like they don't have to have reasons to attack. Treaties from old wars are intact etc...

Itachi didn't want to take over the village. He had already heard the plans to stqrt a war by Uchias. He was a double agent.

Yes the public would. Thats the reason they covered it up. The Uchia were loved in the leaf. Sasuke wearing the sympol inspired and got admired.

Itachi was sent on a mission and played it off. ohh lets run from jman. oh letme not kill Kakashi(Kakashi wonders shy he didn't kill him). Do you even know wat a agent does?

Didn't Kisame capture the 4 tails?

He tried to stop Madara but couldn't

Wait till Madara explains the truth.

[Robby]

A ship can have emotions was indroduced just to rescue them. Why didn't they indroduced this way back when they first got the ship? just so they can use in arc that follows right next so the magic ship can sail through a freaking storm/Buster MOFO buster call.

The going Merry having a soul was set up hundreds of chapters in advance and was one of the major points of the entire 150 chapter arc where it died, directly tied into the search for a new ship, needing a repairman, Luffy and Usopp having a falling out, and Usopp leaving the crew.

It wasn't introduced JUST to save them the one time, and giving time the current ship will probably develop a soul too.

Why the hell didn't the guards seea giant freaking axe in the room after Van der throw it and seach the place?

Because their attention was on the princess and she said it was fine.

Hey Law randomly comes to save Luffy after meeting him for 2 seconds. Luffy didn't do shit for him oh lets not forget the supernova who decides to help is a great doctor when luffy is in need of immediate recovery. Wat a coincidence. GTFO

Law knows Luffy from his reputation as reported in the newspapers, was impressed by him on Shabondy and took him to be a friendly rival that he liked, and ALL the supernovas went to the war front. Which again, was set up dozens of chapters ahead of time when we saw ALL the supernovas leaving the island to go check out the war. Law just went closest to the front lines.

They spent G2 coming out of no where. Sanji heat not affecting him because he a cook.

All of One Piece's training is off camera, with the creation of new moves usually explained during a fight. All of Naruto's training is on camera and takes dozens of chapters to learn a move. Key difference there.

Another thing does Oda know WTF he is doing with Luffy durability? Impact dail hurts him?? If you having relize by now that Luffy durability is plot induced. Very inconsistent with his durability.

Lots of things can get past Luffy's rubber resistance, included bladed weapons, water, fire, poison, seastone, haki, and Blackbeard's ability. In real life rubber can be destroyed, indented, pierced, torn and cut as well. No inconsistency there.

Haki incidentally, was first showcased in the very first chapter, and dozens and dozens of times along the way before the audience had a full grasp of it.

Luffy biting his hands makes no sense. Why when someone else bites him he doesn't go G3?

Because he's blowing air into his bones to inflate the calcium.

Why isn't the air coming out of the bite part.

Because he's blowing air into his bones to inflate the calcium, NOT his skin. He isn't actually taking a bite out of his flesh.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@youngjustice20:

Wait till Madara explains the truth.

So, you are relying on a character that lies moreso then most people have had hot meals to back you up, huh?

Kind of a beautiful metaphor for your blind nutsucking of Kishi.

[youngjustice20]

@Robby sorry for double posting because i can't edit. When you guys unban my name it just freezes everytime i do anything.
Anyways thats wat i was saying. They indroduced at waterworks to szve them next arc. Obviously the current ship will develop a soul. He already established that. You didn't go into how near dead ship got by a freaking storm/Buster call.

Robby thats the lamest excuse yet. They were in the room for 5 mins. Nobody looked to the left where a GIANT FREAKING AXE WAS. If i made this lame ass excuse you guys would of called me out.

Law had no relationship with Luffy. He said like two words to him. The Gov posts all kinds of misinformation in the newspaper. How the hell does he geta a clear grasp of Luffy accomplishments? Law had no reason to risk his life for Luffy. He barley new him for god sakes. ohh i am going to save my rival even through we didn't even start our rivalry yet. LOL Yep The Supernova happens to be a great doctor. Grasping for straws again.

Robby don't try to make me a fool. You must think i don't read OP for that excuse on G2. I read OP like Naruto. Luffy had no time to get G2 and no hint at all. It was a Asspull to the max. Even you admitted this to me before when i was juju. If i remember correctly " You would relize that OP fans criticise Oda too if you actually ever visted to OP manga section" Robby don't try BS me pls. I remember everything. You didn't explain Sanji.

Luffy durability is out of wack. He can get smashed hit at light speed but doesn't affect him but the dail did. Nobody was talking about swords, water, fire etc…. Brute force has been inconsistent.

G3 is strech fantasy logic that he created. Why was Sabo and Ace beating his ass has a kid? He rubber. Its plot specified.

Robby i know you have great debating skills from long ago. IDK why you tried to justify these BS by ODA. You sound like a fanboy. Do you see me defending a clear asspull/no build up like Sasuke hawk summon. Even OP fans think the ship and G2 is BS. Its funny that i get call the fanboy.

[choperman]

I'm gonna stay neutral on this one and simply say, that both one piece and naruto have flaws in them, and you don't have to think every single thing up from beginning to end, clearly even oda needs time to re-think ideas/come up with more storyline, hence why he has breaks a lot

I think you guys get to fed up on foreshadowing but that's just my opinion, although i do prefer it over just plot and characters appearing but i go with the flow a lot easier I guess, but everyone likes there manga a different way so I try to understand both sides

[Aaronrules380]

You realize that part about 3 people with the mangekyou sharingan was a plot hole too, since later in part 2 it's blatantly stated that many, many, many Uchiha got the Mangekyou Sharingan through those same methods

@YoungJustice: They didn't start their rivalry yet? Their rivalry was officially started all the way back in Saobondy Archipelago, after Luff hit the Tenryubitto which is probably where Law started taking an interest in Luffy and was the primary event that would make Law decide to save Luffy later on. Furthermore, Law being a surgeon was hinted at in his epither "Surgeon of Death". Furthermore, G2 was hinted at when they got on the train and Luffy said he had a new technique he wanted to try out. We didn't see him use it before because he had probably never tested it out before his fight with Bleuno and jusyt came up with an idea, given Luffy's personality and tendency for improvisation.

[Kareem Said]

Alright I didn't bother to read most of Juju's muck so I'll just say three things.
1. I actually thought that Temari had potential to be a really capable female. She's my 2nd favorite female character, behind Hinata, that's not saying much but I like her. She saved Shikamaru from Tayuya, when he couldn't defeat her on his own. She's technically never lost a fight in the series (remember Shika forfeited, that technically count's as a win) and I actually believe she is stronger than Kankuro. Who would've thought, a woman being stronger than a man. So Temari was a girl who could fend for herself, so this manga isn't that sexist. Then you realize she hasn't had a real fight for about 300 chapters. And all of her true victories (Shika forfeited) were against girls. All two of them. Yeah.

I also wanted to comment on Robby saying that Kishi ripped off HxH with the elemental system. Kishi has been inspired by other aspects of the HxH manga, I wouldn't say Naruto is a ripoff of HxH, but there are signs of him taking a bit too much "inspiration" from Togashi Yoshihiro. Such as Sasuke having many similarities (at first anyway) with Kurapika. Except Kurapika is a much better character than Sasuke, I can tell that much from just reading 80 chapters of HxH. This is apparently because Kishimoto and Togashi Yoshihiro are really good friends in real life, so you could say Kishi took ideas that he thought were good from his friend. Just wanted to comment on that.

And lastly, don't you go calling Robby a fanboy Juju. Because you have no right to call anyone a fanboy when you think that Naruto isn't sexist.

Actually one more thing, I said in one of my posts that I highly doubt Naruto is the most sexist manga ever. Can anyone think of a series more sexist than Naruto, because I haven't read any that come to mind eventually but I'm sure they're out there. Maybe Gantz, or shojo manga? I've heard many shojo manga are actually more sexist than shonen manga.

[luffyg2]

You know what I've been thinking about is that it would be really interesting to see asuma kill one of his old friend or student.. (not shikamaru).. but since we saw hanzo resisting kabuto I doubt this would ever happen…asuma would break from Kabuto's controle before that.

[ArSoNiSt JoE]

Am I the only one that wished that Kishi did an arc about the founding of the leaf, so that we would see the details as to how the Uchiha and the Senju started beefing, and maybe the epic battle between the Shodaime and Madara? It would answer so many questions…

I can only dream :(

[MasterKingJC]

@youngjustice20:

Anyways thats wat i was saying. They indroduced at waterworks to szve them next arc. Obviously the current ship will develop a soul. He already established that. You didn't go into how near dead ship got by a freaking storm/Buster call.

God awful grammar.

They were in the room for 5 mins. Nobody looked to the left where a GIANT FREAKING AXE WAS. If i made this lame ass excuse you guys would of called me out.

Who gives a shit about an axe?

Law had no relationship with Luffy. He said like two words to him. The Gov posts all kinds of misinformation in the newspaper. How the hell does he geta a clear grasp of Luffy accomplishments? Law had no reason to risk his life for Luffy. He barley new him for god sakes. ohh i am going to save my rival even through we didn't even start our rivalry yet. LOL Yep The Supernova happens to be a great doctor. Grasping for straws again.

When he saw Luffy knock out the Tenryuubito and say he was going to be the man whose going to find the One Piece, It's pretty obvious he took a liking to him. Luffy's done shit a lot of people wouldn't have the balls to do. Hell, he fought in the Marineford War while the other rookies just watched from the sidelines.

Luffy durability is out of wack. He can get smashed hit at light speed but doesn't affect him but the dail did. Nobody was talking about swords, water, fire etc…. Brute force has been inconsistent.

G3 is strech fantasy logic that he created. Why was Sabo and Ace beating his ass has a kid? He rubber. Its plot specified.

If you get hit at the speed of light, it doesn't matter what you're made out of. That shit is gonna hurt, or at least stun you.
Rubber can take only so much damage.
Also, Haki.

Even OP fans think the ship and G2 is BS. Its funny that i get call the fanboy.

Which fans are you talking about exactly? The ones on Naruto forums?

[Robby]

This post is deleted!

[RPGJay]

Sigh, why does it seem like I'm arguing about sexism more often?

@youngjustice20:

@RPGJAY My mom tells me she wants grandkids too. WTH does a father telling someone that sexism? Parents do that all the time.

To address the specific scene I provided a link to, I can't believe I have to spell this out for you.

Yeah parents may want or, to a certain extent, may expect grandchildren, but when the parent is telling his daughter to stay out of the line of fire just so he can have a grandchild, YES JUJU THAT IS WRONG IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

It's not even a moment where what'shisname was concerned for his daughter's safety, it was just a moment where he essentially told his daughter "you're a woman stay in the kitchen an' make babies".

I don't even get how that CAN'T seem sexist. Do you even realize the implications of that?

@youngjustice20:

Why does it matter if Mizkage wants to get married/boyfriend?

I'll address what you wrote here further in my next point, but I just wanted to point out that you still haven't answered my question. Name a single significant thing the Mizukage has ever done. And no, mildly inconveniecing Sasuke does not count. At all.

I'm waiting.

@youngjustice20:

Why does it matter if Mizkage wants to get married/boyfriend? Doesn't Jman run around calling out to girls. Doesn't Shikiamaru just wants to be lazy and get married with a quiet life? Naruto chases girls too. He even goes into their bathrooms. Why can boys chase girls but girls can't do the same? atleast the Mizkage doesn't get distracted like Jman and attacked Sasuke quick. While jman was drunk on a genjutsu girl and almost let Naruto get captured. What kind of crazy double standard is this?

Here's the thing Juju, there is nothing inherently wrong about either a boy or a girl to get into, or in this case yearn for, a relationship in a story. You can create a character of either gender that can be in a relationship but not revolve entirely around their relationship. They can be solid characters with or without their significant other. In other words, they are not defined by the man or woman they follow.

And in this regard Naruto simply fails.

I'm not even kidding when I say that just about every woman in this series has no individual dream or personality that does not in some way revolve around a man. You can essentially define the female characters in this series by the man in front of them.

Even Temari, who easily may be the best written and most developed female character in Naruto still has no unique motivations of her own. Her dream and aspirations come entirely from protecting/assisting Gaara.

Not to mention women in this series are usually off panel and don't really contribute significantly to anything.

If a woman in this series doesn't have a personality as dull and uninteresting as any other tertiary character in this series, you can damn well bet they are following their men.

How on earth you don't realize this by now I will never know.

[youngjustice20]

MasterkingKC thats exactly my point. Who gives a shit about a insignificant axe? Like Robby questioning Naruto dumbness with his clone. How does it affect anything.

Luffy fought because his brother was their. You think Luffy would give a shit if he wouldn't. Luffy has a one track mind. Law had no reason to save him. His reason was stupid. ohh let me save a future rival that not even my rival yet. He even gets asked by ivan after the war and couldn't come up with a explanation. Pure BS http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c581/14.html Nope Oda kicks the explanation to the curve and just make it boils down to some instincts nonsense.

I am talking about fans from this forum.

@RPG Karnai wasn't the only one their. Hmm i don't think is was only for grandchildren. She was acting nuts and want to go commit suicide basically. Kakashi was also told to not fight. Your point would be stronger if Kakashi/Gai(Main characters) were fighting and she was held back and wasn't complaining and needed to be calm down.

I just named serveral things. She became a Kage, Stoped her village from associating with akasuki, protecting the FL, beat Sasuke Sasnoo when no Man ability could get through. She beat Sasuke. He was saved.

Tsaunde isn't defined by who she followed. She became a sennin and the Greatest Doctor in the verse by herself. Kishi makes everyone who family or brother/sister who died get depressed and stuff. She instituted Medical people on the battlefield which must of saved thousands of people by now.

How does Temari being in a high position demean her? Mizkage got to be a Kage why would her dream be still wanting to be a Kage.

You just make it seem Kishi is the sexist person ever, but yet Shikiamaru(Who is sexist) trys to be do so towards Temari and gets dissed hard.

Why would a so called sexist allow that to happen?

[Silence]

@youngjustice20:

MasterkingKC thats exactly my point. Who gives a shit about a insignificant axe? Like Robby questioning Naruto dumbness with his clone. How does it affect anything.

Luffy fought because his brother was their. You think Luffy would give a shit if he wouldn't. Luffy has a one track mind. Law had no reason to save him. His reason was stupid. ohh let me save a future rival that not even my rival yet. He even gets asked by ivan after the war and couldn't come up with a explanation. Pure BS http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c581/14.html Nope Oda kicks the explanation to the curve and just make it boils down to some instincts nonsense.

I am talking about fans from this forum.

@RPG Karnai wasn't the only one their. Hmm i don't think is was only for grandchildren. She was acting nuts and want to go commit suicide basically. Kakashi was also told to not fight. Your point would be stronger if Kakashi/Gai(Main characters) were fighting and she was held back and wasn't complaining and needed to be calm down.

I just named serveral things. She became a Kage, Stoped her village from associating with akasuki, protecting the FL, beat Sasuke Sasnoo when no Man ability could get through. She beat Sasuke. He was saved.

Tsaunde isn't defined by who she followed. She became a sennin and the Greatest Doctor in the verse by herself. Kishi makes everyone who family or brother/sister who died get depressed and stuff. She instituted Medical people on the battlefield which must of saved thousands of people by now.

How does Temari being in a high position demean her? Mizkage got to be a Kage why would her dream be still wanting to be a Kage.

You just make it seem Kishi is the sexist person ever, but yet Shikiamaru(Who is sexist) trys to be do so towards Temari and gets dissed hard.

Why would a so called sexist allow that to happen?

You're wrong. .

[Kareem Said]

@youngjustice20:

MasterkingKC thats exactly my point. Who gives a shit about a insignificant axe? Like Robby questioning Naruto dumbness with his clone. How does it affect anything.

Luffy fought because his brother was their. You think Luffy would give a shit if he wouldn't. Luffy has a one track mind. Law had no reason to save him. His reason was stupid. ohh let me save a future rival that not even my rival yet. He even gets asked by ivan after the war and couldn't come up with a explanation. Pure BS http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c581/14.html Nope Oda kicks the explanation to the curve and just make it boils down to some instincts nonsense.

I am talking about fans from this forum.

@RPG Karnai wasn't the only one their. Hmm i don't think is was only for grandchildren. She was acting nuts and want to go commit suicide basically. Kakashi was also told to not fight. Your point would be stronger if Kakashi/Gai(Main characters) were fighting and she was held back and wasn't complaining and needed to be calm down.

I just named serveral things. She became a Kage, Stoped her village from associating with akasuki, protecting the FL, beat Sasuke Sasnoo when no Man ability could get through. She beat Sasuke. He was saved.

Tsaunde isn't defined by who she followed. She became a sennin and the Greatest Doctor in the verse by herself. Kishi makes everyone who family or brother/sister who died get depressed and stuff. She instituted Medical people on the battlefield which must of saved thousands of people by now.

How does Temari being in a high position demean her? Mizkage got to be a Kage why would her dream be still wanting to be a Kage.

You just make it seem Kishi is the sexist person ever, but yet Shikiamaru(Who is sexist) trys to be do so towards Temari and gets dissed hard.

Why would a so called sexist allow that to happen?

This is minor background stuff and you know it, you're really reaching. No one is saying Kishi is the most sexist person ever, we're just saying he has a rather "old fashioned" view of women, and it clearly shows in his manga.

Good to see you posting Silence. You were the one who said that Japan is a very sexist and racist country. I would say that is true. Now of course not every Japanese male is misogynistic and racist, it would be racist to say that, but the Japanese have major issues in the way they view women and non-Japanese. They're a lot like how America was about a century or so ago, where women and nonwhites were secondary to white males. To be honest, one of Kishi's view strengths as a writer is that he's pretty damn good in the way he writes black people (compared to other mangaka, anyway). Although when we first saw Killer Bee, many of us thought he was going to be an Ethnic Scrappy. Then he gutted Sasuke like a fish and we all asked why the comic can't be about him.
Fist of the North Cloud. Make it happen Kishi, do something good with your story.

[Silence]

To be honest, I'm only following the argument here - this monumentally stupid argument.

No one with two brain cells to rub together can say that women don't get the short stick in this comic.

I'm not going to go so far as to say that Kishi is sexist, but in JUMP Festa Q&As, volume notes, and interviews he's said straight up that he's not good at drawing or designing women, and that he hopes to draw more strong female characters. I read that bit at around the time Yugito appeared iirc, it's somewhere on Narutofan. That says to me there's some acknowledgement that his women could use work.

I mean when Sakura, with all her super strength, is getting choked out by Sasuke when all she has to do is crush his wrists like pine needles, something is desperately wrong. Let's not even get into the whole "a woman's heart changes with the seasons, i'm just a derty hor" speech or, or –

Sakura in general.