Teach: "I knew that 30.000.000 was low for a kid with that Drive…but THIS much!"
Hmmm...
Is Haki a Technique? Should it be Translated?
-
-
His Drive is OVER 9000!!
-
The problem with Drive is that Sanji's drive will really be over 9000 with Nami and Robin around.
I still say Mojo :P
-
The problem with Drive is that Sanji's drive will really be over 9000 with Nami and Robin around.
I still say Mojo :P
The problem with Mojo is that Sanji's mojo will really be over 9000 with Nami and Robin around.
-
To me..Haki is going to end up being the same as the Super Saiyan transformation in DBZ. Awesome and game changing at first, but then it becomes common place to level out the playing field.
-
Drive was sounding good at first. At best, it depends on the situation. It really sucks, ultimately, however – because, if you look at how often it repeats, the reader's mind starts to think of driving a car... or doing this or that involving the action of driving. I.e. it's too subjective of a word. Ambition always means the same thing or something very close to the same thing. So, there's my bit of amateur, unprofessional, not-at-all-a-translator advice, which is probably correct, whether people think so or not :smug:.
I think I've just realized that no translation is perfect. You'd have to spend a godly amount of time to correct everything. Well, practice makes perfect more easily, at least; so one day we'll be able to achieve more godly things! -
If it were translated (yeah, it should be) it'd have to be something short and punchy. Willpower is pretty good but I think just "will" is much more to the point. Except it'd cause confusion with the "Will of D", but you get what I'm saying. "Drive" is also good.
Not that Viz or any scanlation group cares about this discussion. Scanlators: translate it and put it in quotes.
-
@mdmartin101:
His Drive is OVER 9000!!
You mean 8000
-
What's wrong with "Ambition"? I bet the author chose a word with that meaning for some reason.
-
It's not a 1:1 translation and it doesn't really jibe with the depiction of its effects in the series.
Given the (apparent?) lack of consensus on a replacement term, there isn't an easy answer to the issue. (which is really the only good reason to leave it untranslated)
-
We could always mutilate the term and call it "Hakbition" :ninja:
-
brennen made me do it! lol
Don't be a pussy, take responsabilty for your own quotes. :devil:
-
It's not a 1:1 translation and it doesn't really jibe with the depiction of its effects in the series.
Given the (apparent?) lack of consensus on a replacement term, there isn't an easy answer to the issue. (which is really the only good reason to leave it untranslated)
Et tu, Brute ?
-
Et tu, Brute?
If you read it carefully, you'd understand that he's against it being untranslated. :devil:
Unless I misunderstood and you are for untranslated HAKI.
Seeking infinity, with all my affinities.
Finding truth, like a falling fruit, my ultimate finality.
Inside my being, the outside, all things; the finite leads the way.
-
If you read it carefully, you'd understand that he's against it being untranslated. :devil:
Oh, he's against it being untranslated? Dang, me and my bad English!
-
Yes Ivo, what I mean is that if someone were to argue for haki to be untranslated, that is the only reasonable justification they can stand upon.
After thinking about this in the shower, I guess I like "Presence" as the most versatile replacement.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haki
has enyone notised that?
the word haki in the scandinavian culture its a name of a viking from an old saga… he was refered as a sea-king... we all know oda is obsesed with vikings and stuff... maybe it is related -
Damn
The word ambition gave me always hope that "haki"(the King version) isn't something you are born with but something you acquire. I hoped haki is depending on the ambition(King of Priates, best swordfighter etc.) and how far you are willing to go for that ambition(die, protecting someone etc). So that even Ussop could show signs of "Kings Haki" in the right situations.But the word "Presence" destroys that hope
-
Damn
The word ambition gave me always hope that "haki"(the King version) isn't something you are born with but something you acquire. I hoped haki is depending on the ambition(King of Priates, best swordfighter etc.) and how far you are willing to go for that ambition(die, protecting someone etc). So that even Ussop could show signs of "Kings Haki" in the right situations.But the word "Presence" destroys that hope
never thought it that way but its good thinking…
-
The "King's Presence"?
Hmmm.
-
Yes Ivo, what I mean is that if someone were to argue for haki to be untranslated, that is the only reasonable justification they can stand upon.
After thinking about this in the shower, I guess I like "Presence" as the most versatile replacement.
Wow, Presence is a really powerful word to use in such context.
Then Haoshoku Haki would be "Conqueror's Presence"? Awesome!
-
"This king's insane!"
"His presents are too beefy!"
-
This post is deleted!
-
I like Presence.
-
"Conviction" guys, "conviction"!
And MOJO what. We might as well call it JIZZ.
"What was that your BURST of JIZZ back there old man"?!
-
I'll show you a burst of jizz
-
Yes Ivo, what I mean is that if someone were to argue for haki to be untranslated, that is the only reasonable justification they can stand upon.
Thanks for clearing that up.^^
After thinking about this in the shower, I guess I like "Presence" as the most versatile replacement.
Presence does have a nice ring to it. I still prefer Ambition though because of the connection with the overall theme of One Piece itself.^^
-
Don't get me wrong, I can see the thematic connection on one level, but I think most of that connection is derived from a straight reading of an ultimately flawed or incomplete choice of terms. It would be nice to imagine that Oda is tying his in-world concept to the nature of his characters/story that way, but I think it's also kind of a stretch.
And I think even more importantly, it's an awkward fit with the depiction of its effects in the manga. Ambition is a desire or an ideal but doesn't have much applicability outside of those things. It's a relatively rigid definition, while a word like "presence" has a wider definition and certain other qualities that make it more useful. It implies a certain tangibility; one's presence can be said to "fill a room." That alone makes it much easier to apply to what we see in the manga.
Unfortunately if I had known what a permanent "thing" this was going to be when Oda introduced it, I might have spent more time thinking about it the first time.
-
I do and that's why I really like the ring to it. It also works nice with statemens like Teach made about Luffy or Joz about Shanks. For Margaret and the arrows however it sounds a tad awkward at first but not really that much more awkward as it was with Ambition the first time.
Thinking about it a bit more it might be that I prefer Ambition more simply because I've grown used to it. I guess I'll have to give it a couple of days to sit a bit with me to what I really think of it. But it definitely is a good option.^^
Btw, it appears as if the entire Pirate's Summit thing has gone to the next level. Should we speak of the Pirate's Summit of Ambition right now? ;)
-
No offense to anyone of course, but i've always hated the "ambition" translation. It's just awkward and rather jarring to get around the concept that people are knocking out mofos and powering up their attacks with ambition. "Hahahaha, i'm going to hurt you with my ambition!"
Presence is a lot better i think. Still, i've always preferred the untranslated "haki".
-
@Dan:
Presence is a lot better i think. Still, i've always preferred the untranslated "haki".
-
lol, that's different though.
-
Don't get me wrong, I can see the thematic connection on one level, but I think most of that connection is derived from a straight reading of an ultimately flawed or incomplete choice of terms. It would be nice to imagine that Oda is tying his in-world concept to the nature of his characters/story that way, but I think it's also kind of a stretch.
Well, how do/did you/Japanese people take Blackbeard's usage of it? Both times he has used the word make little sense when talking about the in-world concept, and back in Jaya it didn't even exist for the readers, so it had to make sense as a relatively common term that would be referring to Luffy's ambition, willpower, presense, or what-have-you. Urrr, I phrased that poorly, but hopefully you understand the question and point. The underlying theme of the story (dreams and such), especially when the term (haki) was introduced in Jaya, is layed on pretty thick, so I always assumed that was why Oda chose to use 'haki' specifically.
-
well not that anyone cares but my view on haki is that it's a type of energy source from which techniques can be formed, sensing haki can lead to mantra being able to materialize it can make you and weapons you enhance it with stronger, and it apparently has the ability to nullify DF's
-
I like Presence.
-
I like Presence as well.
I'll go with that.
-
Well, how do/did you/Japanese people take Blackbeard's usage of it? Both times he has used the word make little sense when talking about the in-world concept, and back in Jaya it didn't even exist for the readers, so it had to make sense as a relatively common term that would be referring to Luffy's ambition, willpower, presense, or what-have-you. Urrr, I phrased that poorly, but hopefully you understand the question and point. The underlying theme of the story (dreams and such), especially when the term (haki) was introduced in Jaya, is layed on pretty thick, so I always assumed that was why Oda chose to use 'haki' specifically.
Where exactly in Jaya is it introduced? As far as I can remember, it wasn't brought up until Shanks knocked out all the guys on Whitebeard's deck.
-
Where exactly in Jaya is it introduced? As far as I can remember, it wasn't brought up until Shanks knocked out all the guys on Whitebeard's deck.
It wasn't introduced as a skill that someone performed but it's heavily implied that Teach could sense it in Luffy when he said that he figured 30 million was a bit low for a kid of that Ambition. This actually get's real support after Luffy's and Teach's second confrontation in Impel Down, where the latter commented that Luffy's Ambition has grown even stronger. Give me a second and I'll dig the pages up for you.
Edit: Here it is in chapter 234 and chapter 544. Of course I know that these translations (especially the Jaya one) are messy. I'm just contributing the link so that you know what you have to look for. ;)
-
I fail to see how Blackbeard wouldn't be referring to the in-world concept as Brennen says. Haki in all likelihood has a detectable (to those in know, and BB would be informed) element like any chakra, che, nen, spirit power or what have you.
Don't really see the problem.
And to expand a little, this is why i like the untranslated "haki". More is required from the word we need then just the literal definitions and that's why a foreign word like haki is prefect. It's not even a real word to us. It's all encompassing and really could mean whatever the story needs it to without having to distinguish between the other real definitions of any English words we might use. It's the much less confusing option imo. It also lends an appropriate air as well. An unfamiliar word to go with an unfamiliar concept. It fits.
-
Thanks Ivo, I can see it now. Yes, it is true that Blackbeard's first appearance in Jaya does involve a lot of thematic buzzwords but his actual use of the term "haki" is in a tiny little aside bubble, so I think any connection to his speeches is probably incidental. It's hard to say–Oda really snuck this whole concept into his series and didn't get around to addressing it seriously until recently, so we don't really know if he had a big plan for it all along or if it was something he planned partway through. For example, Blackbeard's initial line is pretty innocuous; he just says that he thinks Luffy's bounty was too low for a kid of his "presence/ambition/composure/stature/etc." Maybe Oda wrote that in and then later on decided he liked the word enough to base a story concept around it. We don't really know.
-
Thanks Ivo, I can see it now. Yes, it is true that Blackbeard's first appearance in Jaya does involve a lot of thematic buzzwords but his actual use of the term "haki" is in a tiny little aside bubble, so I think any connection to his speeches is probably incidental. It's hard to say–Oda really snuck this whole concept into his series and didn't get around to addressing it seriously until recently, so we don't really know if he had a big plan for it all along or if it was something he planned partway through. For example, Blackbeard's initial line is pretty innocuous; he just says that he thinks Luffy's bounty was too low for a kid of his "presence/ambition/composure/stature/etc." Maybe Oda wrote that in and then later on decided he liked the word enough to base a story concept around it. We don't really know.
I think it makes sense that Oda really meant that haki we know today because this was before the Sky Island arc and in the
Sky Island arc Mantra was introduced.
Many people believe that Mantra is a form of hakl. -
@Dan:
And to expand a little, this is why i like the untranslated "haki". More is required from the word we need then just the literal definitions and that's why a foreign word like haki is prefect. It's not even a real word to us. It's all encompassing and really could mean whatever the story needs it to without having to distinguish between the other real definitions of any English words we might use. It's the much less confusing option imo. It also lends an appropriate air as well. An unfamiliar word to go with an unfamiliar concept. It fits.
I agree with you in that using the foreign word essentially as a "fictional" term is the easiest way to assimilate the English reader to the concept. The problem that I have with doing that is that in Japanese, it's NOT just a macguffin term that is meaningless outside of One Piece. It's a regular word that has plenty of applicability in real life situations. For example, take the phrase "haki no nai kao." If you left the haki as is, that would read "a face without haki." But the meaning if translated is "a lifeless face" or "a featureless face" or something along those lines. At that point leaving it untouched would be another "all according to keikaku" instance. There are times when Oda makes it totally clear that he's talking about his magical power haki, but there are other times (such as the first line in Jaya as mentioned above) where I can honestly see it going either way.
Basically to me, if Oda's not using a made-up word for Japanese readers, I'm not going to use a made-up word for English readers. Other translators have their personal guidelines for translating (more power to them), and I have my own. If you take a dictionary and do a side-by-side comparison of the original text against mine, more often than not you'll find that what I come up with is not a literal translation. These are two very different languages–a sentence in one language does not necessarily have the same connotation as a "direct" translation into the other. There are lots of things you have to balance to make a good translation, and to me, one of the most important ones is "what does the Japanese reader extrapolate from this sentence, and how would an English reader make that same extrapolation?" The fact that it's not a made-up word to a Japanese speaker is the reason why I don't want to leave a "made-up word" for English speakers.
-
Thanks Ivo, I can see it now. Yes, it is true that Blackbeard's first appearance in Jaya does involve a lot of thematic buzzwords but his actual use of the term "haki" is in a tiny little aside bubble, so I think any connection to his speeches is probably incidental. It's hard to say–Oda really snuck this whole concept into his series and didn't get around to addressing it seriously until recently, so we don't really know if he had a big plan for it all along or if it was something he planned partway through. For example, Blackbeard's initial line is pretty innocuous; he just says that he thinks Luffy's bounty was too low for a kid of his "presence/ambition/composure/stature/etc." Maybe Oda wrote that in and then later on decided he liked the word enough to base a story concept around it. We don't really know.
We don't, but retrospectively we can assume it's quite possible that the word was indeed meant for the haki we know as supernatural aura in the One Piece world.
Even if it's through an invisible retcon.Just like what Ace said to Blackbeard at Banaro Island, and was phrased rather oddly, coming back up in question after Marco reveals the abnormality of Teach.
Oda and his word plays, I tell you.
-
Thanks Ivo, I can see it now. Yes, it is true that Blackbeard's first appearance in Jaya does involve a lot of thematic buzzwords but his actual use of the term "haki" is in a tiny little aside bubble, so I think any connection to his speeches is probably incidental. It's hard to say–Oda really snuck this whole concept into his series and didn't get around to addressing it seriously until recently, so we don't really know if he had a big plan for it all along or if it was something he planned partway through. For example, Blackbeard's initial line is pretty innocuous; he just says that he thinks Luffy's bounty was too low for a kid of his "presence/ambition/composure/stature/etc." Maybe Oda wrote that in and then later on decided he liked the word enough to base a story concept around it. We don't really know.
Looking back at Oda's track of planning things through I'd say it's fair game to assume that Ambition/Presence/Batumba is not something he came up with later in the story but rather something he always planned on using when the time comes.
We saw it's first usage in chapter 1 just didn't know what it was. Also I don't see why Oda shouldn't have had plans for that skill/technique. It's not really a difficult feat for a storyteller of Oda's quality. ;)
-
I can't wait until Oda explains Drive. Even though this drivel is quite entertaining.
-
Looking back at Oda's track of planning things through I'd say it's fair game to assume that Ambition/Presence/Batumba is not something he came up with later in the story but rather something he always planned on using when the time comes.
We saw it's first usage in chapter 1 just didn't know what it was. Also I don't see why Oda shouldn't have had plans for that skill/technique. It's not really a difficult feat for a storyteller of Oda's quality. ;)
All according to Oda's keikaku.
-
I think it would be fine to translate it losely.
Suggestions
"will-power"
"spirit-power"
"spirit" -
There are plenty of very good ways to translate the things that you want to. On top of that you will also be given the further usability to have the translation done on a line by line bases so providing you the leniency to edit the lines as you like it to be.
-
From my understanding, Haki = force/willpower/spiritual energy. With enough training, it could allow its user to perform various techniques for combat.
I think the confusing part is how Oda explains this concept by changing it to "Ambition". Obviously, he does this to suit the prominent theme in this series. I know a lot of people think that Ambition (in One Piece) refers to just a character's psychological desire to reach a goal, but I believe it's more spiritual than that. In reality, the feeling of ambition may often strengthen our actions, but when does it allow us to dodge things we can't see, easily blast away creatures 20 times our size, or knock out a bunch of people just by staring at them? Ambition in One Piece makes these possible because it's viewed more as this aura of energy that's stored inside people (also because it's a cartoon lolol). If simply feeling more ambitious makes an OP character stronger, then Luffy could just ditch Rayleigh and go seek a psychologist. Instead, Luffy must undergo 2 years of training because he needs to awaken and properly control the "Ambition" inside of him.
Because of that, I think calling it Ambition can be pretty confusing. One of the posters was spot on when he suggested it be called "Power of Ambition". It doesn't sound as cool, but at least people would get a sense that it's more than just a feeling, and it doesn't really take a physical form (like ki). Rather, it's a spiritual energy, converted from the feeling of ambition that enables its user to kick some ass!
-
Please, tell me why you revived a thread when we have a perfect thread to talk about haki in?
OP 
