Chapter 560 "The Prisoners of Impel Down" Discussion

Ares

Pretty much, lol
Altough I disagree with you in Jozu < Luffy in strenght, that's just mad

lol I didn´t intended to say that, in fact I think that Joz > Luffy in strenght (Lifting a fucking iceberg ans throwing it to the ENTIRE marine HQ? Now That´s badass!!!), but even if this happen that doesn´t mean that Luffy´s final storm against Croc for example was a pussover attack, because Luffy has always been superstrong (Not at people like Jozu or Shiroige´s level xD, buy you understand me (I hope), I think that in base form he is just a little bit under Lucci right now, being slightly superior to him with Gear 2, so you understand me).
Sorry for my bad english, since it´s not my first language

PD. José el Diamante contra Jesús Burgués, el campeón, cualquier tipo de golpe está permitido.¡Que empiece el combate! (I can dream no? xD)

IrishLuigi

@Ares:

PD. José el Diamante contra Jesús Burgués, el campeón, cualquier tipo de golpe está permitido.¡Que empiece el combate! (I can dream no? xD)

That would be cool, but why did you type this in Spanish?

HaxeyeMihawk

@IrishLuigi:

That would be cool, but why did you type this in Spanish?

Because of the fighters.

TLC

@Zkaiser:

Why? Because he did what someone asked him to do?

The way he is essentially killing people to make Pacifistas gives me the feeling that he has a low regard for human life:/ I'd figure that an ethical man would have problems with creating those things. Now if Kuma and the others asked for it and he had regrets about performing the acts, it'd be a different story but I have a feeling that someone of his vastly superior intellect would have full decision making power on pretty much anything he wanted.

Well whatever, that's why I said "might".

Zkaiser

@Thousand:

The way he is essentially killing people to make Pacifistas gives me the feeling that he has a low regard for human life:/ I'd figure that an ethical man would have problems with creating those things. Now if Kuma and the others asked for it and he had regrets about performing the acts, it'd be a different story but I have a feeling that someone of his vastly superior intellect would have full decision making power on pretty much anything he wanted.

Well whatever, that's why I said "might".

It's obvious that Kuma asked for it and the other Pacifistas have been hinted at being clones. Vegapunk is most likely a very eccentric man and I believe that if a regretful pirate gave his body to science in order to atone for his sins then Vegapunk will gladly make use of his donation.

onemoment

@Zkaiser:

It's obvious that Kuma asked for it and the other Pacifistas have been hinted at being clones. Vegapunk is most likely a very eccentric man and I believe that if a regretful pirate gave his body to science in order to atone for his sins then Vegapunk will gladly make use of his donation.

Um…there's a lot of conjecture there. How does turning yourself into a mechanical killing machine atone for your sins of the past? Regardless of that, Seems that Vegapunk at this point could have either good or bad reasons for what he's done with Kuma.

projectelf

So the 2 charachters with the most physical strength we've seen so far are BB and Jozu. I wonder who'd win if they'd clash without DF's. Iceberg is an iceberg but remember Jimbei (strong ass fishman) dueled with Ace for days and it took only 2 hits for BB to weaken Ace like hell.

Zkaiser

@onemoment:

Um…there's a lot of conjecture there. How does turning yourself into a mechanical killing machine atone for your sins of the past? Regardless of that, Seems that Vegapunk at this point could have either good or bad reasons for what he's done with Kuma.

He turned his body in to the marines, who arguably do a lot of good in the world in order to make up for his very vicious past.@projectelf:

So the 2 charachters with the most physical strength we've seen so far are BB and Jozu. I wonder who'd win if they'd clash without DF's. Iceberg is an iceberg but remember Jimbei (strong ass fishman) dueled with Ace for days and it took only 2 hits for BB to weaken Ace like hell.

Blackbeard has shown no outstanding physical feats.

Zkaiser

This post is deleted!

Pink-Ranger

Agree, Oars and Oars Jr., Jos and Jaguar are the only ones so far with insane physical strength.

Vegapunk is a genius scientist that has invented alot of useful things, weapons included, saving thousands if not millions by sacrificing few should be acceptable.

And this is age of piracy, how bad can "killing" former pirate be? WG are using "criminals" from non-WG countries to build a damn bridge? The method Vegapunk is using can't compare to the sacrifices they are making.

SMUDGE

@projectelf:

So the 2 charachters with the most physical strength we've seen so far are BB and Jozu. I wonder who'd win if they'd clash without DF's. Iceberg is an iceberg but remember Jimbei (strong ass fishman) dueled with Ace for days and it took only 2 hits for BB to weaken Ace like hell.

Why does no one remember Garp?
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/439/10/

Zik

Yes, so an attack that's strong enough to provoke a reaction is all that's necessary – it doesn't have to be his strongest attack. Mihawk pulled out a strong move -- not especially his strongest -- and then what happened: it was intercepted. Was that interception due to luck? Hockey? Fate? WB's mojo? Who can say -- but when Mihawk saw that even a powerful move like that wouldn't touch WB, let alone harm him, then he had his answer. So there was no need to do a stronger one, it would end the same way -- with some other crewmate stepping in and taking the blow for WB.

I never said it had to be his strongest attack. Maybe you're missing what I'm arguing. If unnamed attacks are worthless and only matter to fodder attacking WB with such an attack is a waste of time and stupid. I'm not talking about him deciding to send a second attack either.

He failed to get his answer. We're not using fan logic here. "Joz stopped the attack so WB must be able to do it as well" That can't apply since WB can't cover his body in diamonds.

I'm not even talking about it being intercepted by Joz btw.
@SMUDGE:

Why does no one remember Garp?

Throwing cannon balls? Call me when he starts throwing ships

SMUDGE

@Zik:

Throwing cannon balls? Call me when he starts throwing ships

You underestimate Garp.

Refii

Stop bashing Luffy, or stop reading One Piece.
He's the #%%^@ Main character, he's stronger than most of the faggots on the battlefield aside from WB's crew and the Admirals/Logias. He eats Shichibukai for breakfast.

Get over your delusions of grandeur and your fanboy dreams.

It's time for the new age of Piracy.

People forget Garp, because his Haki is powered by love, and people hate Mati

Urouge

How about Jaguar D Saul? He lifted a battleship.

UsoppSpell

@Zik:

Throwing cannon balls? Call me when he starts throwing ships

Yeah, or a Steel Ball roughly the size of a marine battleship. Sure that's completely average.

Jadosra

@Refii:

Stop bashing Luffy, or stop reading One Piece.
He's the #%%^@ Main character, he's stronger than most of the faggots on the battlefield aside from WB's crew and the Admirals/Logias. He eats Shichibukai for breakfast.

Get over your delusions of grandeur and your fanboy dreams.

It's time for the new age of Piracy.

People forget Garp, because his Haki is powered by love, and people hate Mati http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4018/278663-mati_gaelgarciabernal_large.png

I love Luffy, but if he was that strong, it would just be bad writing from Oda.
And thanks god it isn't

SMUDGE

@Urouge:

How about Jaguar D Saul? He lifted a battleship.

He's a giant, In proportion to his body it really isn't that impressive. Similar to when Oars jnr threw a ship, its not impressive.

Garp and Joz on the other hand…

Phoenix Zoan

@onemoment:

Um…there's a lot of conjecture there. How does turning yourself into a mechanical killing machine atone for your sins of the past? Regardless of that, Seems that Vegapunk at this point could have either good or bad reasons for what he's done with Kuma.

Yeah that is ultimately a contradictory way to atone for your sins. He's not giving his body up for medical research to cure people but to become a living weapon controlled by the WG which he has a history of hating. So he is atoning by becoming a weapon which will ultimately hurt others. Yeah right.

Considering Kuma helped the SHs on two seperate occasions. Hell one time he did it right before his memory was wiped at SA. He still had a definate nature against the WG and some loyalty still to Dragon (a enemy of the WG) up until the very end. He probably most know that the WG would use the PX-0 against Dragon or any of his revolutionary friends at some point.

Most likely the WG has something on Kuma that made him sacrifice his humanity for them and become their weapon research prototype. Probably did it to save something or save someone and that is how he is atoning for his sins from the past. Of course we won't know for sure until Vegapunk most likely tells us about Kuma's past and the events leading up to Kuma's Pacification. Vegapunk can go either way he could be good, neutral or bad. If he is ultimately good it's possible he used a method to preserve Kuma's memory before the final modification was done, helping the government by making things to save lives and hurt others, or he could just be the genius evil mad scientist.

Zik

@SMUDGE:

You underestimate Garp.

No I don't. I just don't care about him throwing cannonballs. His speed and punch hurting Luffy was more impressive imo.
@UsoppSpell:

Yeah, or a Steel Ball roughly the size of a marine battleship. Sure that's completely average.

Obviously.

UsoppSpell

@Phoenix:

Yeah that is ultimately a contradictory way to atone for your sins. He's not giving his body up for medical research to cure people but to become a living weapon controlled by the WG which he has a history of hating. So he is atoning by becoming a weapon which will ultimately hurt others. Yeah right.

Considering Kuma helped the SHs on two seperate occasions. Hell one time he did it right before his memory was wiped at SA. He still had a definate nature against the WG and some loyalty still to Dragon (a enemy of the WG) up until the very end. He probably most know that the WG would use the PX-0 against Dragon or any of his revolutionary friends at some point.

Most likely the WG has something on Kuma that made him sacrifice his humanity for them and become their weapon research prototype. Probably did it to save something or save someone and that is how he is atoning for his sins from the past. Of course we won't know for sure until Vegapunk most likely tells us about Kuma's past and the events leading up to Kuma's Pacification. Vegapunk can go either way he could be good, neutral or bad. If he is ultimately good it's possible he used a method to preserve Kuma's memory before the final modification was done, helping the government by making things to save lives and hurt others, or he could just be the genius evil mad scientist.

Pink-Ranger

@UsoppSpell:

Yeah, or a Steel Ball roughly the size of a marine battleship. Sure that's completely average.

Always though they over did it, the ball looks bigger than the battleship.

Luffy, Garp, Zoro and some others have shown great strength, but I doubt garps ball would have been bigger than 1/4 of the ships size.

The bustercall ships were as big as the towers, their size was big enough for Oars to grab them with both of his hands. I really doubt Garp can compare to Jos, Jaguar and Oars'.

Zik

@Pink-Ranger:

Always though they over did it, the ball looks bigger than the battleship.

Luffy, Garp, Zoro and some others have shown great strength, but I doubt garps ball would have been bigger than 1/4 of the ships size.

The bustercall ships were as big as the towers, their size was big enough for Oars to grab them with both of his hands. I really doubt Garp can compare to Jos, Jaguar and Oars'.

Oh shit you're serious aren't you?

SMUDGE

@Pink-Ranger:

Always though they over did it, the ball looks bigger than the battleship.

Luffy, Garp, Zoro and some others have shown great strength, but I doubt garps ball would have been bigger than 1/4 of the ships size.

The bustercall ships were as big as the towers, their size was big enough for Oars to grab them with both of his hands. I really doubt Garp can compare to Jos, Jaguar and Oars'.

You miss the point, the ball would most likely be made out of solid metal unlike a battle ship which would be mostly hollow and made of wood.

Also garp threw that ball effortlessly, unlike Oars and Saul who may remind you are at least 50x garps size.

Yet again Garp is being underestimated. You would think the fact that he chased the former pirate king would give him some credibility?

@Zik
Look what you've done!
Remember the noobs cant read your extremely dry humour, and more often then not begin believing it.

LightningAce

@Pink-Ranger:

Always though they over did it, the ball looks bigger than the battleship.

Luffy, Garp, Zoro and some others have shown great strength, but I doubt garps ball would have been bigger than 1/4 of the ships size.

The bustercall ships were as big as the towers, their size was big enough for Oars to grab them with both of his hands. I really doubt Garp can compare to Jos, Jaguar and Oars'.

What the hell…..
You don't get the title of "Hero of the Marines", fight on the same level as Roger and then say he doesn't compare to those guys. Garp in his prime woulda been a fking beast..

Zik

Yea I got the responses I wanted at first lol but damn.

If you're not gonna take what Garp has done you should at least take what's been said about him and implied. Sengoku basically said he can't risk punishing him since he's the"Hero of the Marines", WB annoyingly calls everyone (not in his crew) in the damn manga a brat except for Roger, Sengoku, and Garp. He obviously respects him.

Seeing as marines and pirates relationship involve a lot of fighting I don't see WB respecting Garp for his superior intellect lol. If not fighting directly being able to fight off the dangerous turn of events the GL throws at anyone sailing the seas.

On another serious note I don't see how yall can bring up Saul. Him being a giant aside, hell we don't even have to put that aside. He hasn't done much in his short time in the manga. I could only see ppl saying he probably was a beast cuz he's a "D."

Phoenix Zoan

Garp was gimping himself. He can throw even bigger balls in his Zoan form.

UsoppSpell

@SMUDGE:

You miss the point, the ball would most likely be made out of solid metal unlike a battle ship which would be mostly hollow and made of wood.

Also garp threw that ball effortlessly, unlike Oars and Saul who may remind you are at least 50x garps size.

Yet again Garp is being underestimated. You would think the fact that he chased the former pirate king would give him some credibility?

@Zik
Look what you've done!
Remember the noobs cant read your extremely dry humour, and more often then not begin believing it.

Damn! Am I a noob now? Have I lowered myself to the noobness that my join date implies? I am so ashamed I cannot even put it into words!!!

What kind of a journalist am I!?

Garp is more elite than Chuck Norris and Captain Falcon's love child.

Zik

@UsoppSpell You're not a noob and even if you were you're post consisted of the sarcasm I was looking for.
@Phoenix:

Garp was gimping himself. He can throw even bigger balls in his Zoan form.

LMAO

dinty

@Zik:

Maybe you're missing what I'm arguing.

There's a high possibility of that, since I sometimes find your logic hard to follow

(I'm not saying that as an insult, by the way, I'm just saying that as a statement).

If unnamed attacks are worthless and only matter to fodder attacking WB with such an attack is a waste of time and stupid.

Not especially. If everything that he needed to know about the situation was revealed to him using just a single "strong enough" attack, then it wasn't a waste of time, even if it wasn't his strongest move. Why waste energy on an ultimate attack just to find out the same info he could have found out on a "strong enough" attack? He wanted to know how big the gap was between himself and WB. He made a move, it was countered by someone other than WB, and WB seemed unimpressed with him.

That's enough to tell Mihawk the following:

(a) he won't be fighting WB, no matter how strong of an attack he uses, because someone is always going to step in and defend WB against him – so even if he seriously tries to find out how big the gap is, he won't be able to. Not until he defeats all of WB's underlings first, which isn't going to happen. Or at least not then, and not by him.

(b) WB doesn't even consider Mihawk a big enough threat to say: "stand aside, Jozu, Marco, etc ... I'll handle Mihawk by myself". If WB won't engage him in a fight, he will never know how big the gap is between them. He can't know the gap by fighting an underling.

and

(c) Fate, for the time being, seems to be favoring WB. And since Fate seems to be favoring WB, it would be foolish of Mihawk (since he is such a big believer in Fate) to try to push his luck by fighting WB now. Someone else will have to try to topple WB now. Someone else who is currently being favored by fate. And someone else most likely will ...

Anyways, I've said my bit, you've said your bit, and I can foresee this just going round and round in circles for the next two weeks, so we'll call a cease-fire, and let the rest of AP decide what they want to decide about the subject on their own.

SabZ

@dinty:

I agree with the first part, that it's most likely a test of fate, not of strength, but I don't think it needs to be a full-power attack to effectively serve as that kind of test – as long as the attack is powerful enough to force a reaction from Luffy and/or Fate then that's all that's necessary.

I see your point, but when Mihawk says "I wont hold back" you'd think he's talking about his own power.

If he wants to see if Luffy is super lucky (enough to be the next Pirate King), he'll attack full power. Luffy surviving a full power attack from Mihawk would just show how incredible Luffy is.

ponx

u know, u can go round and round as much as u like. we got 2 weeks to kill anyway. :)

Hawkeye

Did I just see Blackbeard talk about fate? He has to join Blackbeard's crew now.

smurfx

@Ares:

lol I didn´t intended to say that, in fact I think that Joz > Luffy in strenght (Lifting a fucking iceberg ans throwing it to the ENTIRE marine HQ? Now That´s badass!!!), but even if this happen that doesn´t mean that Luffy´s final storm against Croc for example was a pussover attack, because Luffy has always been superstrong (Not at people like Jozu or Shiroige´s level xD, buy you understand me (I hope), I think that in base form he is just a little bit under Lucci right now, being slightly superior to him with Gear 2, so you understand me).
Sorry for my bad english, since it´s not my first language

PD. José el Diamante contra Jesús Burgués, el campeón, cualquier tipo de golpe está permitido.¡Que empiece el combate! (I can dream no? xD)

SabZ

@smurfx:

http://i38.tinypic.com/b995dv.gif

That's too funny haha.

juju14

@Refii:

Stop bashing Luffy, or stop reading One Piece.
He's the #%%^@ Main character, he's stronger than most of the faggots on the battlefield aside from WB's crew and the Admirals/Logias. He eats Shichibukai for breakfast.

Get over your delusions of grandeur and your fanboy dreams.

It's time for the new age of Piracy.

People forget Garp, because his Haki is powered by love, and people hate Mati http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4018/278663-mati_gaelgarciabernal_large.png

?? Smoker was just about eat Luffy ass alive. Mihawk is too until someone saves his dumbass. Mihawk and Kuma are stronger then Luffy. Dofl is just improving his case. Luffy is getting his ass beat and if it wasn't for people helping him. He would be freaking dead.

IrishLuigi

@$abZ:

That's too funny haha.

I congratulate you on posting a post completely devoid of humour… or emotion.

TLC

@juju14:

?? Smoker was just about eat Luffy ass alive. Mihawk is too until someone saves his dumbass. Mihawk and Kuma are stronger then Luffy. Dofl is just improving his case. Luffy is getting his ass beat and if it wasn't for people helping him. He would be freaking dead.

And…

There's no shame in Luffy getting help. He's up against the top guns in the world and the fact that most of them are gunning for him due to his reputation (when ordinary pirates wouldn't have such attention) doesn't help matters. The fact that he's been holding his own despite the difference in power and the attention he's been getting is highly impressive and a mark of his strength and will power. Most other people would be dead by now.

juju14

@Thousand:

And…

There's no shame in Luffy getting help. He's up against the top guns in the world and the fact that most of them are gunning for him due to his reputation (when ordinary pirates wouldn't have such attention) doesn't help matters. The fact that he's been holding his own despite the difference in power and the attention he's been getting is highly impressive and a mark of his strength and will power. Most other people would be dead by now.

Zoro has the same amount of Will power. Luffy would be dead from the start of landing on the Island if people didn't keep saving him in every chapter.

SabZ

@IrishLuigi:

I congratulate you on posting a post completely devoid of humour… or emotion.

Get your head out your ass and shut the fuck up.

Usopp D. Teach

Holy shit this chapter unleashed a wave of stupid unlike anything from the last few weeks.

TLC

@juju14:

Zoro has the same amount of Will power. Luffy would be dead from the start of landing on the Island if people didn't keep saving him in every chapter.

And like I said, there's no shame in that. It makes total sense and the fact that even with all the help Luffy's been getting, he's still holding his own and even changing the flow of the battle just shows how strong he really is.

SMUDGE

@$abZ:

Get your head out your ass and shut the fuck up.

I second this notion.

juju14

@Thousand:

And like I said, there's no shame in that. It makes total sense and the fact that even with all the help Luffy's been getting, he's still holding his own and even changing the flow of the battle just shows how strong he really is.

He didn't change jack. Hancock could of walked right pass everyone and open Ace handcuffs.

onemoment

@Thousand:

And like I said, there's no shame in that. It makes total sense and the fact that even with all the help Luffy's been getting, he's still holding his own and even changing the flow of the battle just shows how strong he really is.

I agree with your point, but I also what to interject that there's no shame in Luffy getting help when this is a war. Luffy isn't alone, there's very few one one one fights here, and in this case Luffy getting save is arguably one teammate doing one task so another can keep going. It's like football, Luffy has the ball while the quarterbacks are preventing him from getting knocked back. Heck, these chapters make me curious how Oda would do a football manga if Eyeshield didn't exist.

So yeah, Luffy's not a match for the world power fighters yet (save Moria and Croc, yeah I had to add that in there) but he's doing pretty good in this war considering that. I attribute all these complaints that "Luffy would get his ass beat (while probably true, but why so negative?)" to DBZ's old "one on one fight" that's been built up over it's existence.

@juju14:

He didn't change jack. Hancock could of walked right pass everyone and open Ace handcuffs.

Not with a bunch of shichibukai and admirals attacking her she wouldn't. See, you're way to negative dude. What Luffy is doing right here is that he's fast, intense, and possesses the stamina to fight hundreds of people, even if he isn't the strongest one here. He's the running back for this team.

TLC

@juju14:

He didn't change jack. Hancock could of walked right pass everyone and open Ace handcuffs.

Let's put aside the whole obvious Hancock and her island being bombed situation and go straight to posting chapter pages which you like so much
http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/558/012.jpg

Top right panel.

juju14

@onemoment:

I agree with your point, but I also what to interject that there's no shame in Luffy getting help when this is a war. Luffy isn't alone, there's very few one one one fights here, and in this case Luffy getting save is arguably one teammate doing one task so another can keep going. It's like football, Luffy has the ball while the quarterbacks are preventing him from getting knocked back. Heck, these chapters make me curious how Oda would do a football manga if Eyeshield didn't exist.

So yeah, Luffy's not a match for the world power fighters yet (save Moria and Croc, yeah I had to add that in there) but he's doing pretty good in this war considering that. I attribute all these complaints that "Luffy would get his ass beat (while probably true, but why so negative?)" to DBZ's old "one on one fight" that's been built up over it's existence.

Not with a bunch of shichibukai and admirals attacking her she wouldn't. See, you're way to negative dude. What Luffy is doing right here is that he's fast, intense, and possesses the stamina to fight hundreds of people, even if he isn't the strongest one here. He's the running back for this team.

She is still considered a ally. She could of went right pass everyone and open the cuffs. After that Ace doesn't need no more help. Ace is at Shichibukai level.
@Thousand:

Let's put aside the whole obvious Hancock and her island being bombed situation and go straight to posting chapter pages which you like so much
http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/558/012.jpg

Top right panel.

????? She just helped Luffy get away from Smoker. Her Island should be blown to bits after this war anyways. Luffy hasn't done anything, but run foward and letting people fight for him.

wintergt

I hope that next chapter, after a few panels of Mihawk going to town on Luffy, we get to see more about the plan that Sengoku cooked up. It better also involve the 3 admirals because I really want to see them in action again.

TLC

@juju14:

She is still considered a ally. She could of went right pass everyone and open the cuffs. After that Ace doesn't need no more help. Ace is at Shichibukai level.

????? She just helped Luffy get away from Smoker. Her Island should be blown to bits after this war anyways. Luffy hasn't done anything, but run foward and letting people fight for him.

Sorry but Sengoku and Mr. Oda's word>>>>yours.

And the whole Hancock situation still isn't clear at this point but this is deviating from your original point which was about Luffy. Oh wait, I just dealt with that.

juju14

@wintergt:

I hope that next chapter, after a few panels of Mihawk going to town on Luffy, we get to see more about the plan that Sengoku cooked up. It better also involve the 3 admirals because I really want to see them in action again.

I want to see how Loffy survives the MOST POWERFUL 7 warlord arrack too. He also has Luffy's weakness.