I liked him as a character, I was just going with the thread. He should of died. Knowing Oda it will be awesome if he returns.
Who should be dead in One Piece?
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I don't know, but Devil Dias looked pretty dead to me.
Do we really need someone announcing people's death to be sure of it? The translation says "Even if he did survive", which means survival is a remote possibility. Did we really need Hachi or Pappagu go all Leonard McCoy and say "He's Dead, Luffy"?
Yeah, we all know how Oda works, but IMO in that particular scene I think he was just trying to show Luffy's naiveness by having him trying to delude himself that the guy is still alive and just being thrown in jail.
It made for a powerful scene in my opinion. Much more than the 4 idiots who drank the water of stupidity in Alabasta. Actually I consider that chapter the only one where Oda REALLY failed, HARD. Introducing 4 characters just to have them die like 10 pages later because of some magic water that hadn't been mentioned anywhere before, expecting us to feel simpathy for them? Just stupid, IMO. In that case you really can tell Oda just came up with some cheap drama on the spot to fill up those pages. It was especially unnecessary because unlike the Tenryuubito, we'd already seen how much of a motherfucker Crocodile was, there was no need to reinforce the point. If I could remove just one chapter from One Piece, that would be the one. Also, IIRC, even in that case we dont hear anyone saying they died. So its similar to Devil Dias, amirite?
Of course, if Oda will show him again alive and kicking i'll eat crow, but I've got this feeling telling me it won't happen.(sorry if my english is poor, i'm italian :) )
First, I want to say I also think Devil Dias died. I don't know where it points out that he's alive. These really really minor chars used to depict cruelty do die, just like how prisoners die in Impel Down.
I do want to point out that Oda's intention most likely was not to make us feel bad for the 4 guys that drank the stupid water. It was to show how much of an ass Crocadile can be. I mean otherwise Oda coulda just written it as 4 guys come in and Crocadile kills them in a second in a fight.
On topic, I think Pell should have died. Because now whenever i reread my one piece collection and get up to that part I dont feel as sad anymore.
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I don't know where it points out that he's alive.
If Oda intended to kill him he would have killed him after the collar AROUND HIS NECK HOLY SHIT exploded. If not then, then after Rosward SHOT HIM PRACTICALLY POINT BLANK HOLY SHIT. Not bother to waste valuable space contemplating his fate after being taken away ALIVE and then asking what he would be done when saved.
Instead he went all Black Knight.
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I agree with anyone who says Pell. His self-sacrifize means nothing to me now…
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Or where do they mention him being alive at all?
So they were hypothetically asking whether his life could be saved if treated or not for shits and giggles? Oda didn't need that panel unless he wanted to express that the individual was not only clearly seen by a group (that included Chopper) as being taken away still alive, but what would happen if/when his life was saved.
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I think that all the people that were struck by an attack that aimed to kill AND aren't necessary for the progression of the story from here on should be dead. For instance the Franky Family. Rucchi seemed to have been aiming to kill but they weren't dead. However they played a big part on the whole Enies Lobby invasion, so I'm having no problems with their survival since they went through a process of growth (no matter how small it was) after said scene.
Guys like Pell, Pagaya, the 650 godwarriors, Devil Diaz, Lacuba etc. however have not shown to be of any importance to the further progression of the story after the scenes where the should have died happened. There's more fodder guys like that, but I guess it's clear what I mean.
If at some point any of those characters, Pell for instance, should become important for the future plot of the story. Then I'd have no problem with accepting him being alive. But if that's about it for him in the story, then he might aswell be dead.
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If at some point any of those characters, Pell for instance, should become important for the future plot of the story. Then I'd have no problem with accepting him being alive.
Precisely why I'm not really worried about characters like Gin, Pell, FF, etc.
And our points come back to the same basic rule established by Oda, you're only as strong as your heart. That's why if we've got characters that are going to become stronger or going to show us something remarkable in the future, I really don't give two shits whether they die or not. When we have obvious weaklings getting off it detracts from the bravery we see in others. When at its worst, it makes weaklings in the Odaverse seem as resilient as Luffy or Zoro which is just wrong.
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Though I for the most part agree with your take on this entire death thing, this strong heart thing is the only thing I have a different take on. I don't care if somebody has a strong heart/will/spirit or not. If he's neither among the main cast nor of further use in the future then he should just die down and hype the respective antagonist.
I'm aware that going by that strong hear logic, the antagonists are always the weaker guys, despite their physical strenght, but then we might drop the entire fight between good and bad guys from the begining. So yeah, if people die, despite having this strong heart thing going on, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
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@ all the People who say Kakashi is dead : fuckin prove and don´t say it as it´s some kind of fact.We don´t know for sure yet dammit -.-"
On Topic: I agree with most of you people,so there´s no point of discussing it further.There are people who should´ve died and people where it doesn´t really matter.
And it is kinda annoying to know that nobody can die in OP (apart from Flashbacks or so…).
I mean,fodder should die and basta.
And @ the guy who said why all the "death wishes" : For the drama and such it is an important aspect.And this is a pirate (xD) manga,so there should be some deaths there (and it fiction it doesn´t really matter,the problem is the real world….) -
@ all the People who say Kakashi is dead : fuckin prove and don´t say it as it´s some kind of fact.We don´t know for sure yet dammit -.-"
Really? I thought Tsunades reaction sealed the deal. She told the multisize nojutsu guy his father was alive but then she went all glum when he asked about kakashi. (I'm really bad at recalling names)
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Between the thread title being 'Who should be dead in One Piece?' and the talk about Kakashi, I have finally concluded what One Piece really is: It's all of the interesting characters from Naruto that got killed off pointlessly. So, One Piece may in fact be very small, but one thing is certain: Kakashi should be dead in One Piece.
But seriously, I do agree that the Saobody Arc went from making Death look incompetent, to looking like "I'm-too-busy-dealing-with-Aizen-and-His-Arrancar-Right-Now-To-Lead-You-To-The-Afterworld-So-Could-You-Just-Stop-Bleeding-And-Live?-'KayThanksBye!"
Strange. If I look at the inconsistancies of death in OP as being a result of the fucked-up writing/cosmologies of other Jump manga, it eerily makes perfect sense.
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Perona. She got eaten by Kuma…
What the…? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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I used to be pretty harsh on Oda for not killing off characters, but it does create a psychological impact when he kills someone off like the minotaur did in Impel Down.
More importantly.
WELCOME BACK GORLOM WE HAVE CERTAINLY MISSED YOU!
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As long as Zoro's still alive, any deaths in OP would be meaningless IMHO. He should be dead a thousand times already. But I still think Oda's doing a good job avoiding deaths (except for pell of course). Too many deaths would be meaningless. The death of Going merry and the deaths of ppl in flashbacks were emotional enough. So IF Oda decides to kill an important character, I'm pretty sure he can handle it very well. Besides, Oda handled the Ternyu affair so well that I'd hate 'em even if they didn't kill the slaves. So I see why ppl can still dismiss it as bad writing. I mean, this is one of the best mangas around (if not the best manga after dragonball) and if a man can do such a wonderful job, I'm 100% sure he can continue doing it without us ranting about it. I request people not to criticize OP just because they didn't get what they wanted. Everyone has their own tastes and if you don't like OP, there are plenty of other good mangas to read
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I don't care if somebody has a strong heart/will/spirit or not.
I think you already know my take but just to clarify, it doesn't matter to me personally but since it's a rule from Oda I keep it close to heart as a reasoning.
but it does create a psychological impact when he kills someone off like the minotaur did in Impel Down.
There's little doubt in my mind the fellow is still alive in Oda's head ^_^;
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There's little doubt in my mind the fellow is still alive in Oda's head ^_^;
Yeah, with all that happened I'm also forced to think of "alive until proven otherwise" now. Though, with these guys and Bellamy, there's the difference that we actually don't see the final strike. Yeah, I'm perhaps fooling myself here but I keep trying to convince me that he might be ok killing of people now when he doesn't visually show the killing move.
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Yeah, with all that happened I'm also forced to think of "alive until proven otherwise" now. Though, with these guys and Bellamy, there's the difference that we actually don't see the final strike. Yeah, I'm perhaps fooling myself here but I keep trying to convince me that he might be ok killing of people now when he doesn't visually show the killing move.
Come on man, we both know Bellamy is sipping tea and eating scones with Pell at the onsen ^O^ ^_~
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Come on man, we both know Bellamy is sipping tea and eating scones with Pell at the onsen ^O^ ^_~
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Actually, the myth of "No one dies in One Piece" is false.
I remember a lot of fodder characters who died that weren't in the great past of some character (the rules i usually hear):
-Some minor bounty hunters die when Zoro defeats 100 of them.
-Most of the bounty hunters that saved Vivi die.
-Dinosaurs die in Little Garden.
-A lot of Bounty Hunters died in Alabasta (Including Mr 11, which everyone seems to forget about)
-Hundreds die in the War of Alabasta.
-The 4 Warriors die.
-Bellamy
-The guy which Nami sees before God Judgement
-A lot of the enforcers (the Enel ones) and Shandians on the Big War of Skypiea.
-The enforcer (from God) that dies with the old man of Skypiea.
-The pirates that lose their Crewmembers on "Davy Back Fight"
-A lot die in the Ennies Lobby war (Only on Marine's side, though)
-The pirate "Devil" diesNow… These are presumably death, every death in One Piece is "presumably", this is a style of Oda, he kills them, but he never shows their death entirely, just in case he wants them back, this is an evolution from the Trick of DB, which kills them, and just turns them back to life in case he needs them. And a much better one at that ;)
Also, every non-death can be explained, either with:
A)Strong Will
B)Luck (It is possible to survive with the tongue bitten off)And even in extreme cases:
C) We don't see them die, every death which can't be explained in the above is possible to apology simply because we never see them entirely when dying.
Another thing: I think that more deaths will come on New World and in the New Era
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You know who should be dead!? GREG! GREG SHOULD BE DEAD! For what he did! You know what you did Greg. You know!! You did that to spite me! I will not be spited! Yoooooou… shall... not........ PAS-- wait, that doesn't work. Ugh, Gandalf has failed me. You won't win Greg! You won't!! AKUMETSU!
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luffy and sanji three or four times over and zoro a dozen times at least.
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You know who should be dead!? GREG! GREG SHOULD BE DEAD! For what he did! You know what you did Greg. You know!! You did that to spite me! I will not be spited! Yoooooou… shall... not........ PAS-- wait, that doesn't work. Ugh, Gandalf has failed me. You won't win Greg! You won't!! AKUMETSU!
Someone should make a Gandalf-Monty Python spoof.
First the "You shall not pass" comment. then starting to ask questions:
What is your quest.
What is your favourite color.
What is the capitol of new guinea.
What is the flightspeed of an unburdend swallow.
What does your father smell like.
What little rodent has your mother been compared to.
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luffy and sanji three or four times over and zoro a dozen times at least.
That's different, as they are Super-Human, its normal for them not to die.
This thread is about those characters that should've died because they are not super-men -
Zoro's lost enough blood to drown a small elephant.
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those guys who drank the water that's supposed to kill them after powering them up.
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those guys who drank the water that's supposed to kill them after powering them up.
I think they are dead.
On topic, I've noticed something about Oda deaths. For some of them in real time, he kind of never mentioned them again.
For example, Nero. Thrown out a window and never spoken of again. He can come back, but until then he's dead. Those guys, also never mentioned again. Ghin, supposedly doomed to die by poison, but never mentioned again.
Clearly, Oda likes writing this story so he can bring back all his characters later. I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned, and if so this is more support for it. There are a few "deaths," but Oda leaves them so vague that they can easily be taken back.
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I can't believe how big of an issue this is for some people
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Dinosaurs die in Little Garden.
Yea because the dinos in LG were not only characters in the story they were the plot devices that allowed BW to get there, they also helped Luffy figure out a way to fight the giants. Who'd ever think Oda would kill those characters?…......
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I think they are dead.
On topic, I've noticed something about Oda deaths. For some of them in real time, he kind of never mentioned them again.
For example, Nero. Thrown out a window and never spoken of again. He can come back, but until then he's dead. Those guys, also never mentioned again. Ghin, supposedly doomed to die by poison, but never mentioned again.
Clearly, Oda likes writing this story so he can bring back all his characters later. I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned, and if so this is more support for it. There are a few "deaths," but Oda leaves them so vague that they can easily be taken back.
Yes, that was what i mentioned here:
@Maase:
Now… These are presumably death, every death in One Piece is "presumably", this is a style of Oda, he kills them, but he never shows their death entirely, just in case he wants them back, this is an evolution from the Trick of DB, which kills them, and just turns them back to life in case he needs them. And a much better one at that ;)
Most of OP fans seem to be angry and think:
"Damnit, probably everyone is alive."
But Oda goes in a much more simple way…
"They die, you don't get to see if they died, if i want them to come back, they will, as the death was too vague"
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didn't some random pirates got killed back at Skypiea? Doubt they survived after Wiper destroyed their ship. I mean, Usopp almost died some panels after that scene, so there's no way they could survive with the power of an average pirate crew.
Anyway, I believe Diaz, Lacuba and Mary will become important in the future, so I could really give a damn about the lack of deaths in Sabaody.
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I don't really think that it is because they will become important in the future, only to have Luffy saving them, only that
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For example, Nero. Thrown out a window and never spoken of again. He can come back, but until then he's dead. Those guys, also never mentioned again. Ghin, supposedly doomed to die by poison, but never mentioned again.
I get what you're saying but being thrown out of a window in OP definitely doesn't point to the characters death especially compared to other things that have happened to people.
Also as for Gin, there's no reason to assume he's dead. As mentioned in this thread he as hyped up as the MH5 was he should've died right after. Also I think it was Greg who mentioned the whole strength of heart allowing characters to avoid or persevere through deadly situations and Gin made the promise that he would meet Luffy again in the GL. So Gin in the NW, you can bet on it.
I just don't see these examples as Oda setting us up to bring them back because in his mind it was made to look like they were dead. Nero just outlived his usefulness and purpose in the story and Gin's promise trumps the MH5.
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A while ago I stumbled across this interview in which he sort of addresses the issue.
Q: Do you like touching scenes like that?
A: I thought that drawing a touching scene was very awesome after seeing Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (Hayao Miyazaki). I thought, 'I want to make them cry, too!'. That is why I have 'how to touch people's hearts without killing people' as one of my themes. I feel that killing people off is just too easy but, if the story is flowing towards that direction, it can't be helped. For now, I think there is a way for people to be touched without killing characters off.
Q: Parting without death seems like they are using their own will to part, and that they are turning their backs on one another. It might prove to be an awesome scene.
A: I think it's awesome, I like scenes like that.
This interview was conducted a while ago (before entering the Grand Line) and so part of his explanation doesn't really make sense now, like when he says "but if the story is flowing towards that direction, it can't be helped." That contradicts the fact that he has brought characters back to life when their deaths would have served the story better.
Still, I can sort of see what he's saying about it being harder to not kill the characters and still move the reader. This is something Oda does really well and it's why the lack of deaths in One Piece doesn't really bother me. It doesn't matter that I know that a character is not really going to die or that their wounds are temporary, it still gets me every time. For instance when I watched the anime I knew Pell would be fine but even though I started off cynical when that scene came I teared up anyway. I've gotta respect Oda for being able to move me like that no matter what.
Oh and I don't think anyone has mentioned the most tragic death of all… Going Merry!
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This interview was conducted a while ago (before entering the Grand Line) and so part of his explanation doesn't really make sense now, like when he says "but if the story is flowing towards that direction, it can't be helped." That contradicts the fact that he has brought characters back to life when their deaths would have served the story better.
Oda has changed. Be it at the request of those above him or not, the story has, overall, grown far less grim than it was at the beginning. In chapter 1 the main character stabs himself in the damn face. I can't see Oda sleeping at night these days if he pulled something like that again. He knows that (very) young and old alike enjoy the story and although he has some leeway, he seems to WANT to soften the story. Which, you know, that's okay. I don't read OP for how "MATURE AND ADULT AND OMIFG SWEARS AND BLOOD" it might be. But back to that comment, I think he means in a BIG story-shifting way. And to this point, he has not betrayed that comment. Any of my complaints do not affect the overall flow of the story that is OP. They affect how I interpret it and how I might experience certain aspects of it, "Oh, someone got shot? They'll be fine.", but I think his comments then still stand.
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If anything One Piece is getting more grim as the Straw Hats make their way through the Grand Line.
No way Lacuba's attempt of suicide was less shocking than a dumb kid stabbing himself on the face.
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@KaimeiKarasuhebi:
If anything One Piece is getting more grim as the Straw Hats make their way through the Grand Line.
No way Lacuba's attempt of suicide was less shocking than a dumb kid stabbing himself on the face.
I think I understand what he means. He is basically saying that the main characters will no longer do anything really dark like they did at the start of the series. Nami's mutilation of her own arm, Luffy as a kid driving a knife into his head to prove a point. etc. The actual world events are certainly darker, but in terms of shonen standards it actually has lightened up a bit. What the main characters do defines the darkness standards of a series usually as they are supposed to be the emotional standard kids are meant to look up to. (or also what ends up happening to them from another opponent).
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I think I understand what he means. He is basically saying that the main characters will no longer do anything really dark like they did at the start of the series.
How's stuff like Monster Chopper and Luffy almost killing himself with the Gears not shocking at all?
Even these pale in comparison to Zoro absorbing all of Luffy's Pain after the big fight with Moria.
Anyway, these "dark" moments you mentioned were just a way for Oda to show us the determination of the characters. These moments will just get "darker" as they keep facing harder trials in their adventure.
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@Kaimei:
How's stuff like Monster Chopper and Luffy almost killing himself with the Gears not shocking at all?
Even these pale in comparison to Zoro absorbing all of Luffy's Pain after the big fight with Moria.
Anyway, these "dark" moments you mentioned were just a way for Oda to show us the determination of the characters. These moments will just get "darker" as they keep facing harder trials in their adventure.
Meh not planning to argue it much :P
All I can say is that Luffy and Chopper… they are not neccesarily going to die from that and its only if they keep doing that over a prolonger period of time will it be a problem (again its emotional weight to it... if it doesn't look like they are going to die but "could" die from it eventually, it means nothing by shonen standards, its all about the immediate consequences).
Also, we the readers, and Zoro, didn't know the extent of the damage that would happen to him after that scene had transpired (If he ended up actually dieing from that event it would be dark, but he is just really injured from it). It has nothing to do with the end result but more to do with the emotional baggage instituted on the intial action. Luffy stabbing himself, if you go back looking at it from an objectional unbiased point probably wouldn't happen again in this story... at least not for the reasons it happened back than. He might do something like that again to himself to help another but he proves himself based on his own strength now and not to show he is "tough" by willingly cutting himself.
We also have Zeff as well which had him eating his own leg to help Sanji. This scene was taken out of the anime because of how dark it was. Not to say anything about the current story. The thematic is most certainly dark but consequences of actions has dropped dramatically since the start of the series. I like the series for other things though so I can't say I care that much :)
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We, the readers (and Zoro), didn't know the extent of the damage that would happen to him after that scene (with Kuma) had transpired.
Actually, we did. Kuma said he would die.
Also we had Zoro chopping his legs off at Little Garden o/
Also we had Franky standing in front of a train o/ -
Luffy almost killing himself with the Gears not shocking at all?
As of now the gears "killing" Luffy is ALL TALK. Maybe if it was done in a similar way to other manga when the protagonist does something new knowing it will harm him and then we actually SEE the effects of said dangerous or deadly move/tech.
So far Lucci's commented on it, Luffy's acknowledged it and said he doesn't care, and Usopp speaks on it in front of the crew. Now the revelation to the crew may be present what I got from Usopp was that he was so amazed at how uber Luffy has gotten he has jumped to the conclusion that it must not be good for him to do it soo much and that maybe it's time to step it up so we don't put our captain in these situations since well, I'm pretty weak.
Now this is how I see it as of now, Oda can later on show Luffy getting a heart attack out of nowhere or show a lack of stamina in a fight form him looking as if he's older, etc. but he hasn't yet and Luffy's been the gears quite a bit since EL…..
Maybe he'll reach his limit in the war and pass out who knows but as of now the gears "killing" Luffy is not shocking and quite laughable when you keep in mind who's writing this manga. It just might be a plot device to add suspense since OP most likely won't be going on when Luffy is 40+ or it could just be the foreshadowing of his death at the end of the series.
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You know who should be dead!? GREG! GREG SHOULD BE DEAD! For what he did! You know what you did Greg. You know!! You did that to spite me! I will not be spited! Yoooooou… shall... not........ PAS-- wait, that doesn't work. Ugh, Gandalf has failed me. You won't win Greg! You won't!! AKUMETSU!
Hmm.. OH i c what u did thar. No, not really. Well, I kind of do but that's still kinda random..
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How's stuff like Monster Chopper and Luffy almost killing himself with the Gears not shocking at all?
You're literally talking apples and oranges. As Zik pointed out it's 'Talk'.
Goku can't stand SSJ3 for more than X time because it will eat up his life force on earth!
This planet will blow up in 5 minutes!
I can become super strong if I eat this jaw-breaker-ish thing! For 3 minutes.
It's a limit assigned to characters so they can't overdue or overuse something OR to make the story more exciting whereas Luffy stabbing himself isn't anything of the sort.
There's nothing noble about it.
There's no one he wanted to protect by doing it.
He doesn't gain/learn anything from it.
He used self-mutilation as a childish method to attempt to make a point to adults. You cannot compare that to Luffy using a method of attack to protect his friends.
It would be like saying using up ki or chakra is gruesome.
No way Lacuba's attempt of suicide was less shocking than a dumb kid stabbing himself on the face.
First, I don't know how you can compare prepubescent self-mutilation to suicide by an adult. Both are horrible things period. But the only difference here is, Luffy ended up with a scar he has to carry the rest of his life and Lacuba, well, 5-10 minutes later he was screaming at the top of his lungs overjoyed with freedom. It's nothing more than a joke. Nothing grim there except how Oda dealt a blow to his own comic.
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Greg for a fan you seem to be quite harsh of Oda.
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Greg for a fan you seem to be quite harsh of Oda.
He's just very strict in his critique of Oda. If anything, for Greg, that shows how much of a fan he is while also showing how great of an author Oda is.
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Greg for a fan you seem to be quite harsh of Oda.
They call it tough love. 99.9% of the time Oda meets and exceeds my expectations. That doesn't mean I won't just accept everything he does as magnificent. As of this point I think he is the greatest mangaka alive and one of the greatest storytellers ever. But he's not perfect. I wish there was a way my criticisms could reach him but
A. My ideas aren't that important.
B. He shouldn't listen to how any one person tells him to write his story beyond his editor who in the end is just looking out for him.
Therefore one might argue that any critique I offer is useless and I should just accept everything. But that's not respecting the man and if anything insults my fandom of his incredible work.
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Greg should have died ages ago.
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Deltrons left ball should have died.
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What? oh right, thanks…
Deltrons right ball should have died.
