Naruto Discussion V [Re-Re-Redux]

onemoment

From what I remember that's something OneMoment posted. I assume he realized he made a mistake in joining your "discussion" and deleted it.

Bingo.

Also, I quite liked this chapter. The great thing about Ebisu doing this little flashback is that he's one of the more normal ninjas who's been in konaha from the very beginning. He's a great viewing glass for the attitudes of common people in konaha who are not related to Naruto's general circle of friends. What I like best about this is that it shows that the people of this town actually do like Naruto now as opposed to hating the kyuubi inside him. Plus we have a bunch of small developments here and there about the other pains fights, Naruto's training, and Konohamaru development. Though I'm sure not many people care about Konohamaru, and neither do I, I'm happy that at least Kishimoto is following through and developing Konohamaru's storyline. After all, he introduced it in like the second chapter of this manga.

As for this "fight," it seems likely that another ninja will interfere, or Ebisu will do something. Despite what people have said, an individual pain isn't exactly unbeatable. "Sock Pain" showed us that, though it's still probably alive. A jounin can at least distract it.

Tokoro Ataru

The chapter didn't accomplish much…but I liked that the montage was with Ebisu instead of with some important character like Kakashi. As someone mentioned, Ebisu is one of the villagers who represents the more regular normal people who don't know of Naruto, the masses who know the name but otherwise treated him like a freak from day one. Having him pretty much be the voice that shows the village finally stands in unity to protect him has him go a very long way from the beginning or even when he was brought in by Kakashi to teach Naruto more of the basics before Jiraiya stole him away. Other than that...it was OK, not good, not bad.

Gekko135

yah know.. i really did like the flashbacks. Rather than it being an important character close to Naruto remembering his deeds, it was someone who pretty much represents the village. The flashbacks basically summed up all that Naruto has done since chapter one, but what is great is that it's from the village's point of view.

And even though i never really cared about Ebisu, I did appreciate his self sacrifice, especially coupled with the flashbacks. It's nice to know that Naruto's actions have actually been noticed by others.

but like the rest of us… I just cannot accept kakashi's current situation.

...yah know Kishi... now would be a good time for ol Kakashi to step in and save some weak ninjas

Robby

@Luffy:

Wow really? How come I never noticed? You're like an awesome poster. You know exactly how to analyze a series, where to analyze and what should be done to improve it. You rock.

Heh, thanks. Like I said, I only post once or twice, be it in the spoiler or actual chapter thread, so it usually gets buried pretty quickly. I tend to go on long multi paragraph reviews that take time to write up, which then quickly get pushed aside by others saying one line talkbacks for 3 pages. I'm extra talkative today cause its a holiday and I have nothing better to do.

As for this chapter, I'll agree with others… I like that it shows the voice and attitude of the village, its the "everyman" flashback, and that random minor characters are getting showcased. Like I said, I'm conflicted. I think it was a good chapter.... but I still feel strongly that Kakashi and Juraiya should have gotten similar, or better treatment for their death scenes, and it feels a bit like a slap in the face that a minor character gets this kind of motivation and remembrance, when the major ones don't.. This just proves Kishi can do a good montage, which we already knew since he did it all the time in part one.

I'm also bothered that ALL the other once upon a time main character, Guy, Neji, Hinata, Kiba, Shikimaru, Ten Ten, Lee, Shino, etc.) really aren't doing much here. Villain may well outclass them, but it'd be nice to see them doing something. One badass stalling move apiece isn't much to ask. And that may yet come... after all, Choji did something... sort of... but to showcase glasses pervert and the little kid before them? Meh

As for the art... I dunno why people always complain about it. its not as good as it was in part one, but its WAY better than it was in the middle of part 2, and has been for some time now. I know I stopped reading the series for a while, and then came back and was impressed. Kishimoto is doing shading and backgrounds and full body shots again... as opposed to multiple pages of silhouette head shots in a cave, or full page splash shots of Sasuke's head with no shading, or black outfits on a black background, like he was doing for a while. Art is not as good as he can do it, and its nowhere near what Oda puts into One Piece, but its not as bad as he's done it for long stretches in the past either.

Satsuki

applauds Bravo, robbybevard, you took the words right out of my mouth.

I think this is one reason people get so bitchy over Naruto's quality. We KNOW Kishimoto can do better, but he's not. I don't know if he's lazy or has the worst editors in history, but we should be reading better stuff. And we're not. It's aggravating.

JulieYBM

Y'know, I should be feeling happy that Naruto is being recognized by his collegues, but I'm not. That'sreally a testament to how terrible Kishimoto's writing has gotten. I hope the Anime can improve the past two years worth of material.

Jejune

I remember back when I read the chapter called "The One Who Dies Is..?!" and Kakashi and Orochimaru were facing off and my heart was beating so fast cause I thought Kakashi was going to die and I was so scared. xD
It was weird comparing it to how I was totally fine through the last chapter. But then again I still don't think he's dead, bah. Hopefully Kishi realises that he can never kill Kakashi now because the scene would be so underwhelming.

It was pretty cool seeing his dad out of nowhere though. I'm glad he doesn't look exactly like Kakashi, mask and all, but with a pony tail like the whole damn fandom wanted it.

This chapter, err.. It's Ebisu, hehe, he's all right. Oh and the tongues, what the hell.

SantoryuMaster97

Im not enjoying Naruto anymore
I sware timeskips really ruin series(well the ones for me)
Gurren Lagann i hated after Kamina died but i just didnt like it anymore
They should have never done a timeskip

DesertSpada

OK, OK. I agree with everyone that the flashback montage was great to see how Naruto has evolved in the eyes of the Konoha village, but this chapter as a whole was a bit weird.

As robybevard said, this flashback would have been great with Jiraiya or Kakashi, if it was put in the last moments of their lives to show that they get some kind of peace with all that they have done. However, in the case of Kakashi, it might not have been able to fit correctly for him to think upon Naruto and then go to him talking to his dead father as Kishimoto might be trying to go somewhere with Kakashi currently. Having Ebisu here might have served for that cause, really. Although what Konohamaru is going to do or why we are focusing on him instead of the many other characters that haven't been shown yet is beyond me. I suppose he has grown tremendously since he's going to fight pain because if it took him a couple of seconds to beat Ebisu then I don't know what Konohamaru is going to do.

Which makes me want to go back to the other characters such as Neji, which I am truly dissapointed with in Part 2. The fight that he had with Kidomaru was excellent. Truly one of my favorite fights but Neji has done pretty much nothing in Part 2. I mean, he's the only Jounin right? He should be doing something important instead of standing around with long sleeves. Gyah…...

Zkaiser

Crap, now Jinbei is banned. Someone around here is trigger happy.

I would at least like to see WHY he was banned, as to not do it myself.

Salamander Natsu

so it konohamaru's turn to duke it out..wonder what kind of jutsu he'll use….

tarrin4ever

@Zkaiser:

Crap, now Jinbei is banned. Someone around here is trigger happy.

I would at least like to see WHY he was banned, as to not do it myself.

Because he's been a bit of an asshat at times. His last few posts must've been the straws that broke the camel's back.

Back to the manga. So… who thinks that devoting a whole chapter to a character whose appearances can be counted on one hand and trying to make us feel scared for him was a good idea?

Kui has miraculously appeared and stepped forward to save Gohan from Freeza's wraith. But is he biting off more than he can chew? Tune in next time…

On the next Dragon Ball Zeeee!

pyromonki

@SantoryuMaster97:

Im not enjoying Naruto anymore
I sware timeskips really ruin series(well the ones for me)
Gurren Lagann i hated after Kamina died but i just didnt like it anymore
They should have never done a timeskip

^I understand that Kamina was a good character, but the fact that simon replaced Kamina two episodes later makes that argument very…. ehh.

I admit those two episodes where simon was in a slump were terrible though. :/

But the timeskip was awesome, especially when the epic climax begins.

Now that was a way to kill off my favorite characters. :(

and don't give Kishimoto an excuse, the time skip is fine, it's what he's making the characters do that's so awful. Like Sasuke's constant douche baggery.

or Sakura's "improvement yet still do nothing" bull.

I'm mean I know the story's about Naruto and Sasuke but JEEZ.

but even with the complaints... the ride is still enjoyable.

Jejune

I'm just wondering… that must've been the first picture of Ten Ten in years! When did we last see her? I can't remember if she has appeared post-time skip.. Same with Lee actually.

estarapapax

Just a thought: Kisshi might have introduced Killerbee to teach Naruto know how to make a Kyubi more cooperative.

Luffy Batter

@Satsuki:

applauds Bravo, robbybevard, you took the words right out of my mouth.

I think this is one reason people get so bitchy over Naruto's quality. We KNOW Kishimoto can do better, but he's not. I don't know if he's lazy or has the worst editors in history, but we should be reading better stuff. And we're not. It's aggravating.

Yeah pretty much how I feel and the reason I hate Naruto so much. Kishimoto could do so much better both in art and story. He just doesn't most probably due to lack of interest in the series. It pisses me off to no end:/

alexh4319

I thought this chapter sucked. Why ? because it was lazy writing the portrayal of the villagers acceptance of Naruto would have been more effective and more believable had the author effectively showed/developed the villagers growing respect of Naruto way back. When Naruto came back, there was zero proof of the villagers growing acceptance of the Kyuubi-kid, no growing updates on the villagers at all. Part of the theme of Naruto, was to be accepted which meant he had to prove himself to the village….He defeated Gaara of the desert, assisted the defeat of a dangerous enemy, nearly got killed trying to save his faggot friend, beaten tough matches the ninja tournament, saved a Kazekage from Akatsuki but none the village's reaction/viewpoints was shown. There wasn't been any interaction with Naruto and the other villagers shown, none.

He suddenly shows them in a battle with a extremely minor character ?

This is the same shit he pulled in the Sasuke fight, he made up a bunch of flashbacks coupled with the very few scenes he actually showed that had a hint of friendship between Sasuke or Naruto and showed what could have been developed more earlier in the series….

You know why I love a manga like Soul Eater (among other things)? Because the author does a great job at showing little things like the main cast living a normal life, having parties, playing basketball etc

It helps establish a credible, tangible world despite the wacky elements (moon and sun with faces etc)

Nothing like that in Naruto, the only interactions we see seem to be purely professional most of the time, and overall artificial, cold and forced.

Kaizoku Mele

@Jejune:

I'm just wondering… that must've been the first picture of Ten Ten in years! When did we last see her? I can't remember if she has appeared post-time skip.. Same with Lee actually.

IIRC, they showed up during the "rescue Gaara" arc.

King_Ty

@alexh4319:

I thought this chapter sucked. Why ? because it was lazy writing the portrayal of the villagers acceptance of Naruto would have been more effective and more believable had the author effectively showed/developed the villagers growing respect of Naruto way back. When Naruto came back, there was zero proof of the villagers growing acceptance of the Kyuubi-kid, no growing updates on the villagers at all. Part of the theme of Naruto, was to be accepted which meant he had to prove himself to the village….He defeated Gaara of the desert, assisted the defeat of a dangerous enemy, nearly got killed trying to save his faggot friend, beaten tough matches the ninja tournament, saved a Kazekage from Akatsuki but none the village's reaction/viewpoints was shown. There wasn't been any interaction with Naruto and the other villagers shown, none.

He suddenly shows them in a battle with a extremely minor character ?

This is the same shit he pulled in the Sasuke fight, he made up a bunch of flashbacks coupled with the very few scenes he actually showed that had a hint of friendship between Sasuke or Naruto and showed what could have been developed more earlier in the series….

You know why I love a manga like Soul Eater (among other things)? Because the author does a great job at showing little things like the main cast living a normal life, having parties, playing basketball etc

It helps establish a credible, tangible world despite the wacky elements (moon and sun with faces etc)

Nothing like that in Naruto, the only interactions we see seem to be purely professional most of the time, and overall artificial, cold and forced.

Great Post, QFT

King_Ty

Question

Why do they fight in this manga anyway. I mean whats the reason the baseline reason?

In one piece its Government vs Pirates. Pirates break laws….
in Gurren Lagann its spiral vs antispiral. Spiral desires to rise above antispirals dont
In Soul Eater its to become deathscythes
In Bleach its to kill hell things cause they kill people

In naruto its...? Village people vs Village people/nins because??
Same thing can be said for Fairy Tail. Guilds vs Guilds because they just dont like each other??

Dark Lord Zenigame

Countries go to war, and the hidden villages act as the military. The villages themselves also like to start shit on occasion, as seen with the Sand back in part 1.

And guilds in Fairy Tail are actually not allowed to fight because of the damage it would cause, the Phantom Lord thing was a fluke. With them, it's that they take on various jobs that get them involved in other people's conflicts.

King_Ty

ok i had forgot all that part I stuff

thank ya kindly

Malintex_Terek

People, people. Such negativity! Let's look at the bright - or least dark - side of things.

Naruto getting recognized means the manga is entering its twilight stages. We can't see the end yet, but it's definitely coming up.

Can't really say the same for Bleach, though.

Phoenix Zoan

Good montage but another retcon flashback. Instead of showing us the villagers were warming up to Naruto through the actual manga we get it through the end of a flashback. Meh at konomaru. Looks like we're going to get another ninja coming out of nowhere to save his ass. Kishi has some terrible pacing. Another Naruto and codebreaker segment with us going nowhere. Hopefully Deva Pain is heading to Tsunade and he can kill her so we can move on to the next arc.

Satsuki

@Malintex_Terek:

People, people. Such negativity! Let's look at the bright - or least dark - side of things.

Naruto getting recognized means the manga is entering its twilight stages. We can't see the end yet, but it's definitely coming up.

Can't really say the same for Bleach, though.

Thank you, you brightened my day.

Brave heart

you guys missed the beauty of this chapter.

naruto finally said that he won't complain anymore and he's gonna try to use the sennin mode while moving without the fusion. this is a ok.

Elric

In b4 Naruto using a stationary bunshin to collect the energy for him while he's moving around and papa frog silently praising Naruto for being the only one who could have come up with and utilize such an ingenius use of bunshins before introducing Naruto to the requirements of a never before achieved mastery of hermit mode which after another 12 months of manga Naruto will accomplish by using a third bunshin.

Dark Lord Zenigame

…goddamn, that's what he's going to do. >_<

Silence

@Elric:

In b4 Naruto using a stationary bunshin to collect the energy for him while he's moving around and papa frog silently praising Naruto for being the only one who could have come up with and utilize such an ingenius use of bunshins before introducing Naruto to the requirements of a never before achieved mastery of hermit mode which after another 12 months of manga Naruto will accomplish by using a third bunshin.

This post is genius.

Robby

@Elric:

In b4 Naruto using a stationary bunshin to collect the energy for him while he's moving around and papa frog silently praising Naruto for being the only one who could have come up with and utilize such an ingenius use of bunshins before introducing Naruto to the requirements of a never before achieved mastery of hermit mode which after another 12 months of manga Naruto will accomplish by using a third bunshin.

…thats exactly what its going to be. exactly. I do believe you've called it.

brennen.exe

@King_Ty:

Question: Why do they fight in this manga anyway? I mean whats the reason the baseline reason?

Naruto: Ninja's do miscellaneous jobs for the country. They also act as the military force for their countries.
Fairy Tail: Mages for hire.

@Elric:

In b4 Naruto using a stationary bunshin to collect the energy for him while he's moving around and papa frog silently praising Naruto for being the only one who could have come up with and utilize such an ingenius use of bunshins before introducing Naruto to the requirements of a never before achieved mastery of hermit mode which after another 12 months of manga Naruto will accomplish by using a third bunshin.

So true. If noone else said it, everyone else should have at least thought it.

Greg

<off-topic>Woah. Jinbei was banned? That makes another. Interesting. It seems that sooner or later the posters who I choose to ignore get banned. Guess I can really pick 'em.
<off-topic>Wow, once again, Kishimoto creates wicked villains. I wish he'd lend some of his idea juice to Oda.</off-topic></off-topic>

Luffy Batter

@Greg:

<off-topic>Woah. Jinbei was banned? That makes another. Interesting. It seems that sooner or later the posters who I choose to ignore get banned. Guess I can really pick 'em.
<off-topic>Wow, once again, Kishimoto creates wicked villains. I wish he'd lend some of his idea juice to Oda.</off-topic></off-topic>

Not me, that's for sure><

Ivotas

Fun thing though, is that all discussions I had with Jinbei were constructive. =/

Supernova

@Greg:

<off-topic>Woah. Jinbei was banned? That makes another. Interesting. It seems that sooner or later the posters who I choose to ignore get banned. Guess I can really pick 'em.
<off-topic>Wow, once again, Kishimoto creates wicked villains. I wish he'd lend some of his idea juice to Oda.</off-topic></off-topic>

If anything Kishi needs ideas and help from Oda.

Luffy Batter

@Ivotas:

Fun thing though, is that all discussions I had with Jinbei were constructive. =/

Fun thing though, everytime I talked to Jinbei I felt sure he was trolling. I mean the stuff he said…ugh.

Daz

I found it hilariously telling that in a 3 page recap of Narutos' growth and accomplishments, only two panels represented part two. And one of those was Jirayas death.
Also, I feel bad for Ebisu. He's been around since chapter two, but gets owned off-screen without us seeing him use a single jutsu o anything…Kishimoto couldn't even bother to think something up.

Phoenix Zoan

What I find hilarous is Naruto somehow does the impossible in a few days or a little bit over a week in training. Yet in over 3 years of straight training during the timeskip all he is able to learn is the basis fundamentals. :wassat:

Malintex_Terek

@Supernova:

If anything Kishi needs ideas and help from Oda.

I don't think he needs ideas, but heart. It's painfully clear Kishimoto isn't drawing Naruto for his own artistic expression anymore, and hasn't been like that since before Part II.

Oda and Miura are among the few manga-ka I see who still take pride in their work, rather than lower their standards for the sake of being easier on themselves. I think Togashi is like that too, though one wouldn't know at face value how dedicated he is.

Kishimoto is not alone in treating "writing/drawing" as merely a career rather than a means of self-expression: a lot of recent J-media from light novels to anime have felt very much the same. A shallow lack of sincerity. I'm not sure what brought it on, or maybe it was always here and I just didn't notice since I wasn't as involved in the novel/comic/animation community as I previously was.

@Phoenix:

What I find hilarous is Naruto somehow does the impossible in a few days or a little bit over a week in training. Yet in over 3 years of straight training during the timeskip all he is able to learn is the basis fundamentals. :wassat:

Oh, that's not surprising at all. Most people need some sort of external pressure to get them to accomplish something - it's like cramming before an exam. One needs extreme dedication and concentration to put the same amount of studious effort one exerts the day before an exam one or two months before the exam actually takes place.

Without a sense of urgency, very little practice or knowledge is retained. That's part of the reason why tests exist and homework isn't the de-facto means of calculating one's grade. Nothing better serves as the proof of passage.

Greg

If anything Kishi needs ideas and help from Oda.

Kishi has Oda beat in the awesomely awesome villain design department. He's simply weak in the execution (sometimes literally).

Fun thing though, is that all discussions I had with Jinbei were constructive.

WHITEBEARD/Jinbei does have some good ideas and he's shown himself to be reasonable as well as rational in recent months but his actions in 'The Great War' were incomprehensible and, as the kids are saying these days, completely batshit insane.

Gekko135

the great war? not following..

Satsuki

@Malintex_Terek:

I don't think he needs ideas, but heart. It's painfully clear Kishimoto isn't drawing Naruto for his own artistic expression anymore, and hasn't been like that since before Part II.

Oda and Miura are among the few manga I see who still take pride in their work, rather than lower their standards for the sake of being easier on themselves. I think Togashi is like that too, though one wouldn't know at face value how dedicated he is.

Kishimoto is not alone in treating "writing/drawing" as merely a career rather than a means of self-expression, though; a lot of recent J-media from light novels to anime have felt very much the same. A shallow lack of sincerity. I'm not sure what brought it on, or maybe it was always here and I just didn't notice since I wasn't as involved in the novel/comic/animation community as I previously was.

Well said.

This is one reason Miyazaki worries about the future of animation in Japan. (and Togashi is forgiven because he's still trying to finish a manga despite his illness, the man has resolve.)

Greg

the great war? not following..

Believe me, you don't want to know.

Vanessa

@Greg:

Believe me, you don't want to know.

I still think Viz-Hater was worse than any version of Phenomenol, but the former I liked for some reason irregardless.

Anyway…yeah...where's Kabuto?

tarrin4ever

@Vanessa:

Anyway…yeah...where's Kabuto?

Probably hanging out in the Characters we really wanna see, but never get to because they're so awesome they're beyond Kishi's writing skills room.

Shino and him get a lot of thinking done there.

Vanessa

Actually Kabuto is one of the worst handled characters in Naruto.

Simple case of not knowing what to do with an already awful character.

Luffy Batter

@Satsuki:

Well said.

This is one reason Miyazaki worries about the future of animation in Japan. (and Togashi is forgiven because he's still trying to finish a manga despite his illness, the man has resolve.)

Erm wait, Togashi has a chronic illness? I thought he was just lazy as hell. Damn, now I'm worried about him.

goty

Togashi's illness is just an internet thing, it was never said by a reliable source. More than likely he's just a lazy, arrogant author who refuses to work with assistants and follows his own scheduling.

tarrin4ever

Mishandled indeed. It's not like they specifically handled him wrong, it's just they didn't DO anything interesting with him. He was just hanging in the background anytime Orochimaru shows up, not doing anything. And then as a plot device to get the cast to fight with Orochimaru in the second half.

I really liked Kabuto in the first half, especially during the chunin exam. He had an unpredictabe nature to him (even Orochimaru wasn't too sure what was up with him), which could have been taken in a really cool direction.

But then he degrades into being his master's butt boy, and all that absurdity of making himself into Orochimaru. And any remaining interest in his "secret" we had gets thrown out in favor of him showing off how much of a fanboy he is for Orochimaru.

Ivotas

@Greg:

WHITEBEARD/Jinbei does have some good ideas and he's shown himself to be reasonable as well as rational in recent months but his actions in 'The Great War' were incomprehensible and, as the kids are saying these days, completely batshit insane.

Well, can't comment on that since I wasn't involved in this (apparently I don't even know what exactly the great war is supposed to be). I guess I can consider myself lucky then, that I only had constructive talkbacks.