lol, fantastic thread, i'm not on any side to be honest. though thus far i feel Tarek's arguments are the better. i'm suprised Voodzik isn't more active in here.
Usopp is a mugiwara! Forever!!
-
-
Usopp already proved his worth in this arc, some people can't accept the fact that he does not have to blow up god-like enemies. I pray that Usopp never fight in this arc.
Yes, Terek can be a pain but he's not as bad as Voodzik.
-
I would be very happy to see Usopp finish this arc with "simply" being crucial to Robin's rescue (not talking about the marines, but how do you think that bag of key's got there, magic?) and having a true match-up in a later arc against someone who would match his fighting style for a good fight
But he is a gunman, and they are surrounded by ships, so i think he might have to clear a path or at least stall the ships by shooting their sails or something
-
this should be merged or closed, this has been stated many times in other topics…
-
I remember that I was hoping that Hattori turned out to be some big threat that only Usopp could take out. I guess that could still possibly happen but it would be pretty lame. Usopp's weapon has to be badass. It can't be a simple slingshot anymore, right?
If Usopp is going to be a member of the Strawhats he cannot seem at all average. Right now he’s merely above average with his aim and skill but he needs something that makes him special/unique. Kabuto is probably going to be that something that makes him more then just your typical sniper. I want to say it’s definite, but I honestly can’t say where the story is going. If I had to guess, I would say that Oda likes the character Usopp and he’ll make him suffer and suffer until it’s time for him to succeed. When that time comes I have very little doubt that it will be awesome. It just would not take that much for Usopp to seem useful.
My stance is this: Hopeful. I still truly think things will work out for this character. I doubt that they will not, and I’m not jaded by scenarios where Usopp should have or could have been successful. There’s so much potential for Usopp to grow that I’m going to wait it out. I think things will be okay.
-
Well the Buster Call is still a enemy to beat and SogeKing didn't have the chance to explain the secret of Kabuto
Maybe and just maybe the secret of Kabuto is the major key for destroying the Buster Call fleet
This would make SogeKing a real hero and prove to himself that he is indeed strong (strawhat level) in his special way
-
this should be merged or closed, this has been stated many times in other topics…
I disagree. I hate to repeat other people's point but it seems that some people don't get it. The purpose of this thread is to prevent Usopp's discussion from being stated some more times in other topics. This is a more practical approach than trying to shut people up from talking about how pathetic Usopp is or not.
Anyway I have fun reading both sides of the argument.
-
The Conclusion I came to is: if I was not reading the forums so much I would probably be a little happy with Usopp just sniping some marines from the tower. But since I´m reading it, I can not sustain that opinion any longer.
So, everyone is frustated on Usopp´s course right (mass frustation more exactly)? Even those that normally says that are satisfied, are actually deluding themselves, because they would like it better if he had actually done something (something huge). I feel we´ve got trouble here. Maybe I´m wrong, and I hope I am, but I got teh feeling that ODA is using Usopp as joke (and also a tool to manipulate the readers emotional side).
A guy that was weak but would be feared out of simply luck, and that would get out of extreme situations the same way, always by bluffing. Of course you can not sustain that all the time, but while you can, you develop a diferent character. What I mean is:1 - He avoids fights, but feasts on the glory
2 - He is weak, but is seen as a strong fella (Oimo and Kashi anyone?)
3 - He is not brave, but everyone think he is (thus he will become what he wanna be, a "brave warrior")The only problem is, at some point he will have to face himself. But we never know how far ODA will take this sadistic style of conducting Usopp. Some times he trows a candy, yes, like in chapter 419-20, but that´s just to avoid things getting out of control. While that, Usopp becomes the center of atention, a tremendous feat for a guy that normaly would be the less popular SH. Well, now we know, he is the most popular, although not the way anyone would think one could be…
The other problem of this is, people may start to really hate Usopp sometime. Seems like some already do.
-
Well the Buster Call is still a enemy to beat and SogeKing didn't have the chance to explain the secret of Kabuto
Maybe and just maybe the secret of Kabuto is the major key for destroying the Buster Call fleet
This would make SogeKing a real hero and prove to himself that he is indeed strong (strawhat level) in his special way
You think kabuto will launch atomic warheads or what^^?
Nono, soge was just goingt to explain how he could hit spandam from that distance against the wind and all that.Other than that he won't do anything special with kabuto hehe
-
The only problem is, at some point he will have to face himself. But we never know how far ODA will take this sadistic style of conducting Usopp. Some times he trows a candy, yes, like in chapter 419-20, but that´s just to avoid things getting out of control.
…I hope that Oda would never repeat this sadistic style on another SH in future when he wants to do this character development thing again.
-
What I'd like to see is the Arc ending by Usopp/Sogeking blasting the daylight generator beneath EL and causing night to fall on it. The darkness would obscure the visibility of the BC ships and allow them to escape. Plus, it would be kind of cool to see all the marines look up and proclaim joy because night has finally fallen during perpetual day.
-
The purpose of this thread is to prevent Usopp's discussion from being stated some more times in other topics.
And has that ever worked - these end of all discussion threads tends to foil excess discussion as long as the thread is on the front page (even that isn't required). And then, bang!, out of nowhere we have yet another Usopp thread. Usopp is just so awesome that we have to talk about him as much as we can. Totally unbiased opinion.
So, everyone is frustated on Usopp´s course right
Not me, at least.
The daylight generator beneath EL, the daylight generator beneath EL…
-
wow..wow..Okay I am alittle disapointed that Captain Usopp hasn't gotten a fight but it's not make or break for me whether he has one before the arc ends or not. It all depends on whether or not ODa-sensei is gonna go the generic/obvious route with the Usopp substory:
Look at how he kicks everyone's ass now! His character has become better/stronger! Or..
The subtle route:
Usopp has already been ridiculously useful this arc and shown he clearly has a irreplacable role in the SH's.
Normally I'd say since it's a SHounen fighting series, he's not gonna opt for subtly because too many people won't understand Usopp being useful without him kicking a major villains ass, and this thread sorta proves that. Usopp has had countless more badass moments and all the while still basically maintaining his personality. If Oda all a sudden makes Usopp this brave ass whooper he won't be USopp anymore and it'll alienate half the people and please the other half.And considering how Usopp has jumped up in popularity in the Japanese character polls this arc, it seems like people have already been won over so there's no immediate need to prove his badassery to fans. I mean once he almost beat Luffy, he pretty muched proved himself. Then the sogeking thing just pushed him alittle further into popularity.
I want to see Usopp fight and whoop ass but defeating a cp9 would be waayyy to much. I mean his mission is to become a brave warrior. If he defeats a cp9, his goal is achieved and he has no goal anymore. So unless Usopp gets a new goal, he can't just annihilate such a powerful foe yet. And why do people complain that he still acts cowardly sometimes? HE'S USOPP! If they change him anymore I'll cry! He's already being twice as brave as he normally is via Sogeking!
But don't worry people..Once I read the scene where Usopp starts to try and explain Kabuto's secret to Sanji and Zoro, I knew FOR SURE he would get a fight before the arc ends. Oda's basically saying Kabuto has a bunch of tricks you haven't seen yet but they're coming soon!
I knew he wouldn't fight Spandam and I was right! And just because Spandam doesn't have god-like strength doesnt mean he wasn't the main villain of the arc. Lucci is the fighter but Spandam is definetly the lead villain.
Just because he doesn't destroy some ubber might character doesn't mean Usopp has been useless.His sniping to save Robin was badass but not enough for me. If he doesn't fight, I just hope he gets to do something that makes me suprised and really impressed.
-
I prefer to shut the hell up and watch what happens in the future. Oda could change Usopp into a freaking god or he could crash him and burn him and make people hate him. Since this is arguing about the arc and Usopp's previous anticts then I say Usopp has his moments, they just pop up less and they aren't that poppy. But they still pop so I'm happy. It isn't like Apis, where the SH's are sucking up her crap and treating her like a princess and acting below her. It's about Usopp who is a coward and a weak one at that who is somehow lovable.
I also say fuck Sasuke and his army of fangirls.
-
I like a lot of what you say Ao Kiji. I really am not upset with usopp in this arc. I just get upset at people who don't like it and start bashing my favorite charicter. (there's a polite way to voice your opinion without pissing people off)
I like Usopp because he isn't strong. DBZ got really boring to me because everyone was strong, and no matter what happened, you knew they would survive and become stronger. yawn, so predictable.
Usopp isn't strong, so instead of me guessing, "oh, he'll just punch the guy out" I get to wonder, will he run away all silly, will he get pounded a million times (merry christmas/#4 fight), will he lie and try to trick his opponent, or will he devise some smart ass plan for defeating the villain.
I also like a charicter that can make me laugh. Porbbably why Zoro is the least interesting to me. The fact that he is scared shitless half the time is hilarios. Luffy, being all serios during a fight isn't funny. Usopp is.
Know what my favorite Usopp attack is? Usopp Rubber Band. I piss myself laughing everytime I see it cause it's hilariuosly insane and unexpected. And he did manage to trick hatchi and chuu with it. I don't care if it's a strong attack, it's clever.
-
Haha, captain usopp got it right.If Usopp would act like a shonen fighter he would be boring.
It works different than some other shonen. For example, at some point Krillin in DBZ just had to quit the game and that was it for him cause if a character in DBZ couldn't fight he didn't fullfill any purpose anymore as far as the story was concerned.
But it's different in one piece! The story needs and utilizes Usopp in his current weak state to break the cliche and unlike Krillin Usopp will always stay at the center of the storm and the fact that he can't fight and has no cheating weather rod or rumble balls is essential and makes it all the more interesting.
…but zoro is funny nonetheless
-
Usopp fans like Usopp because he's incompetant? because while the rest spent their childhoods forgoing hardships in order to aspire to their dreems and or circumstances Usopp played will children nearly half his age? because while others did worked towards their futures Usopp accepted himself for what he was and just went with the flow?
Usopp isn't no where near normal, normal people work towards their aspirations, Usopp is a childish immature coward, but he's taken great steps in this arc, his personality was addressed and to put to bed 'Captainnnnnn Usopp' as well as lies such as 'I have 40,000 warriors' are the things i'm looking for in his development. Also putting to bed the slingshot in favour of Kabuto is another big step for him.
I like funny things in One Piece but i dislike laughing stocks, i hate it when Sanji is made that character to laugh AT and i dislike it when Usopp is that character we're made to laugh AT. but before Usopp can develop within the team he has to develop within himself and i'm enjoying seeing his growth. The fact that he's now going to be able to respect Luffy which i didn't feel he did before (as a Captain) is something which excites me very much.
I personally would like a more serious Usopp, the Usopp pictures in Captain Usopp's sig. And until he can sort out the issues within his character, it's ok that his biggest consistant mugiwara moments are centred around humouring them. When Usopp is finally born it will be wonderous, but he can't be IMO a feared warrior of the seas and a coward. And he DEFINATELY CANNOT BY SOGEKING.
-
We're still talking about a fictional character, right^^?
-
Yeah, Nami was almost as pathetic. But at least she showed a couple of useful, new offensive moves, she looked confident and decided, and ended up with a win against a supposedly superhuman foe.
Doesn't exactly make up for her being used as a half assed hentai character for half a dozen chapter and a useless luggage in general for the entire saga, but it wasn't that bad.
Its too bad that Usopp gave her the weapon in the first place. Without his inventing skills, she would still be a third rate character. You and Terek or whatever are just looking really negative. You say that Usopp plays small parts which makes him useless but you have to understand that all small parts also have a big part in everything. I'm tired of sitting here idle while two posters start to make it worst for something like this.
In every chapter of One Piece, Oda has brought to us a planned out story. Usopp isn't the type of character that Oda would forget about. Fact is, Usopp is still in the story and that shows that Oda hasn't forgotten about him. You are also forgetting that Oda did well on creating the coward of Usopp and because of that, Usopp's dream isn't finished. He wanted to be a man of the sea and if he were already that man, following the rest of the Straw Hats would be useless because he solved his dream. Being a coward till the very end is what Usopp will be.
I know he's a coward but calling him useless isn't something you should call him. You want useless? Try Tenten, Sakura, or Hinata in Naruto. You should be calling them useless for the fact that they don't have a very important part of the story except for Sakura PTJ, though she still is counted as worthless, but every little thing you brought up or went negative on was actually something useful for a bigger part. You can disagree, yet you say that your only here to say that he's jsut a secondary, yet you seem to want to start a flame war by pushing down on some people's favorite character and some people who like the character.
You are just biased….
Franky: Had the special part of actually trying to talk Robin out of losing faith.
Chopper: Eh, he fought some marines and rode on top of giant horses and then went Chopzilla.
Nami: Defeated a CP9
Sanji: Defeated a CP9
Zoro: Defeated a CP9 and got Nami and Chopper to the top of the building quicker.
Luffy: Dfeated a CP9 and is now fighting Lucchi, also defeated several marines.
Usopp: Gave hope to the two Giants of Elbaf, which joined sides with Sogeking and the rest of the Straw Hats. Gave signal to go to war with the W.G. Shot down a marine that was with Spandam.(also, there were explosives where Franky was, which might of made it hard for him to get there quicker)
Robin: captive; reason for the whole Enis Lobby arc.
My point is that all the characters in the Straw Hat crew had some kind of role in this arc and every arc of all of One Piece. If Usopp was a lost cause, why take him this far into the series, I really don't know but most of the role he had played in has gotten him an actual fanbase.
Also in another topic, you said that the reason Oda chose Sanji to win was because Sanji had a bigger fanbase, why would Oda base his story on a fanbase? The whole thing about having fans to a character is also saying that they are a fan of Oda because he creates the personalities and he creates the story itself. He chooses who dies and who doesn't.
When the fanbase started to rot on the man who made "Hikaru no Go", he didn't listen to them just to bring Sai back, he quit.
-
Franky: Had the special part of actually trying to talk Robin out of losing faith.
Chopper: Eh, he fought some marines and rode on top of giant horses and then went Chopzilla.
Nami: Defeated a CP9
Sanji: Defeated a CP9
Zoro: Defeated a CP9 and got Nami and Chopper to the top of the building quicker.
Luffy: Dfeated a CP9 and is now fighting Lucchi, also defeated several marines.
Usopp: Gave hope to the two Giants of Elbaf, which joined sides with Sogeking and the rest of the Straw Hats. Gave signal to go to war with the W.G. Shot down a marine that was with Spandam.(also, there were explosives where Franky was, which might of made it hard for him to get there quicker)
Robin: captive; reason for the whole Enis Lobby arc.
My point is that all the characters in the Straw Hat crew had some kind of role in this arc and every arc of all of One Piece. If Usopp was a lost cause, why take him this far into the series, I really don't know but most of the role he had played in has gotten him an actual fanbase.
Also in another topic, you said that the reason Oda chose Sanji to win was because Sanji had a bigger fanbase, why would Oda base his story on a fanbase? The whole thing about having fans to a character is also saying that they are a fan of Oda because he creates the personalities and he creates the story itself. He chooses who dies and who doesn't.
When the fanbase started to rot on the man who made "Hikaru no Go", he didn't listen to them just to bring Sai back, he quit.
Good points, but only if the people arguing that Usopp is not worthy of being a mugiwara understands that…..
anyway, Usopp does his part, the other mugiwaras does their part...... Oda draws it the way he likes it, if all of you want the outcome to be different, why don't you go tell Oda about it?
I think there is no point arguing about it, since no matter how many points are thrown around, no one is going to care....
all they are going to care is
if Usopp defeats someone.
if Usopp saves all his nakama.
if Usopp defeats Lucchi to save Luffy.
if Usopp destroy all the Buster Call ships.
if Usopp needs a bigger role than secondary charaters.well, I wishfully hope that Oda will do "if Usopp defeats Lucchi to save Luffy" and everyone will shut up.
-
I don't really see where the argument against him joining back is based. H'es proven that's he invaluable to the crew, that he sees them as nakama, and that he wants to rejoin.
And even if he doesn't rejoin, where's he gonna go? It seems to me that without a navigator he has no chance of going backwards through the GRand Line.
-
You know, I remember when Usopp's actions on compared to Galley La/Franky Families actions, and I realize…didn't they more or less fail?
They tried to open the gates, door to Enies Lobby, yet Zoro and Yokozuna made it so that they few over the door.
Then, they used their King Bulls to transport the SHs into Enies Lobby further. Okay, I can't doubt the usefullness of this, but I remember that when the King Bulls were knocked unconscious, it was the giants that saved them.
Then, when Galley La/Franky succedded in pullign the levers that brought down the bridge, it was Kokoro and the Rocketman that took them across.
Meanwhile, Galley La and Franky Families leaders combined to beat that judge guy.
I dunno, it seems that, even if you belittle what Usopp's done, he's still at least directly involved in saving Robin.
Still, I hope he does something more, now that they're on that ship. Realistically, he could save Luffy after Lucci is defeated, since it looks like Luffy will be near unconscious after all that.
-
…and if all else fails there's always a daylight generator to blast^^
-
Its too bad that Usopp gave her the weapon in the first place. Without his inventing skills, she would still be a third rate character.
I agree, and think she looked as bad if not worse than Usopp during that time. But at least she didn't have the spotlights pointed towards her during a hundred chapters only to act like a mixture between Jar Jar Binks and a rabbit trying to survive into the lions' pit.
You and Terek or whatever are just looking really negative. You say that Usopp plays small parts which makes him useless but you have to understand that all small parts also have a big part in everything. I'm tired of sitting here idle while two posters start to make it worst for something like this.
Thanks for the heads up but I think everybody got it, the point is in One Piece as in every shonen mangas and every work of fictions there's main characters, also called heroes, and secondary characters, also called journeymen.
Secondary characters help heroes with the little they can do, it is best shown before the Strawhats attack Enies Lobby when Paulie tell them they're the only ones who can defeat CP9. Paulie is a secondary character, the Strawhats aren't. Hence, they supposedly have different duties, powers, and screentime.
In every chapter of One Piece, Oda has brought to us a planned out story. Usopp isn't the type of character that Oda would forget about. Fact is, Usopp is still in the story and that shows that Oda hasn't forgotten about him. You are also forgetting that Oda did well on creating the coward of Usopp and because of that, Usopp's dream isn't finished. He wanted to be a man of the sea and if he were already that man, following the rest of the Straw Hats would be useless because he solved his dream. Being a coward till the very end is what Usopp will be
It's not even the fact he's a coward, I couldn't care less about it, he'll probably stay a coward until the very end of the series as Sanji will stay a womanizer and Chopper a naive kid, even though I found the way he tried to stupidly weasel his way out of the fight against Jyabura after he initially showed his resolve, awkward and lame.
It's the fact he artificially became ridiculously weak over the course of this saga, while he started by defeating not only a fishman, who're supposedly way more powerful than men, but one of Arlong's henchmen, so a powerful fishman.
I know he's a coward but calling him useless isn't something you should call him. You want useless? Try Tenten, Sakura, or Hinata in Naruto. You should be calling them useless for the fact that they don't have a very important part of the story except for Sakura PTJ, though she still is counted as worthless, but every little thing you brought up or went negative on was actually something useful for a bigger part. You can disagree, yet you say that your only here to say that he's jsut a secondary, yet you seem to want to start a flame war by pushing down on some people's favorite character and some people who like the character.
So your point is you could always find worse elsewhere? If you're a culinary critic and write a negative article about a restaurant, do you think the cook of said restaurant would defend himself by saying everything he serves tastes better than shit? Of course compared to some Naruto characters Usopp is as active and useful as you can get, but compared to other members of the Strawhats crew he isn't.
You are just biased….
Oh the irony.
Franky: Had the special part of actually trying to talk Robin out of losing faith.
Chopper: Eh, he fought some marines and rode on top of giant horses and then went Chopzilla.
Nami: Defeated a CP9
Sanji: Defeated a CP9
Zoro: Defeated a CP9 and got Nami and Chopper to the top of the building quicker.
Luffy: Dfeated a CP9 and is now fighting Lucchi, also defeated several marines.
Usopp: Gave hope to the two Giants of Elbaf, which joined sides with Sogeking and the rest of the Straw Hats. Gave signal to go to war with the W.G. Shot down a marine that was with Spandam.(also, there were explosives where Franky was, which might of made it hard for him to get there quicker)
Robin: captive; reason for the whole Enis Lobby arc.
You're telling me I'm biased and then conveniently forget to mention most of the other crewmembers acts outside of their fights against CP9 while putting a ridiculous emphasis on the most insignificant actions accomplished by Usopp. This particularly funny for Franky, Sanji, and yes even Zoro, who all had far more important and meaningful parts in the Robin retrieval mission than Usopp.
My point is that all the characters in the Straw Hat crew had some kind of role in this arc and every arc of all of One Piece. If Usopp was a lost cause, why take him this far into the series, I really don't know but most of the role he had played in has gotten him an actual fanbase.
Of course he had some kind of role. The role of a helpless victim, a whining hormonal wreck and a filler character. Some people actually find it great and think it makes him a unique, interesting character, and I'm not one to discuss people's tastes, but when they try to say he's as important as the other main characters then I must respectfully disagree.
Also in another topic, you said that the reason Oda chose Sanji to win was because Sanji had a bigger fanbase, why would Oda base his story on a fanbase? The whole thing about having fans to a character is also saying that they are a fan of Oda because he creates the personalities and he creates the story itself. He chooses who dies and who doesn't.
I didn't say anything like that. I just implied it wasn't that far fetched to think the main story could be influenced by shueisha's editors who themselves want to have the most popular story possible. Giving more attention to the most popular characters is only logical then.
-
I did say what everyone else did but most of them just only defeated a CP9 in the arc or defeated marines, otherwise, Sogeking worked outside the fight completely. I wasn't being biased because I respect every character and I'm on neither side of them. IN this case, you seem to see him as worthless or just nothing of the series, in which you will always think your right and won't change your answer even if its against the right one.
I was giving examples of another Shonen because in this case, there were answers of him being like Krillin or something.
Your saying that he will give the most attention to the most popular characters? Hm, you do know that Usopp or Sogeking is a very popular character as he was then and as of now. Plenty of people are waiting for him to shine, yet you say that he shouldn't shine because he's not popular enough? Also, doesn't that ruin the story a lot? To make a good story, you have to have a colorful amount of characters and that's the whole reason of the Straw Hat crew.
Luffy: Do I need to explain?
Sanji: womanizer
Zoro: lazy yet bloody thirsty warrior (though he only acts like that during fights)
Usopp: the classic coward
Chopper: he's a reindeer
Nami: Money craving thief
Robin: the lounging type
If you only focus on one type of character, it would turn out to be something dull, especially since One Piece gave its mark already. It was always to give color to every character on the ship, and that's why every character has well prepared flashback. Each character should be cared for, not thrown away because one is slightly more popular.
-
Since I'm someone that can't be compared to your discussion skills, I can only say that I think Usopp could had won again Luffy with his new weapon, since the faster shurikans were the only things needed.
But then.. Luffy will d– be too hurt to fight for Robin..EDIT
Ooh.. Also, I think I'm already fed up enough with Luffy's stupidity, it's just another thing now. Usopp, Chopper, Robin and Franky now gave a new light, and Nami is very close too. However, the 3 main fighters are too.. Themselves.. They should have [to my opinion] an upgrade in personality in the next arc to the arc after. -
We're still talking about a fictional character, right^^?
Hehe. I was just thinking of the same… looking all of these. It's funny. By the way, Oda can't forget Usopp because Usopp is Oda.
-
You know I was kidding about the Daylight Generator, right, Elric? ^^;
What I can see Usopp doing as a great way to end the arc is firing something from kabuto that's akin to "Greek Fire" in the One Piece World. As the BC ships persue them, they'll be forced to halt.
End Result? Greek Fire blocking the escape route, CP9 defeated, BC failed. Spandam with his new,puffy face will call the Gorosei, Gorosei will tell the VA to kill the members of CP9, then issue bounties on everyone.
GG.
-
Just in case some people think I'm overly negative, I must say that I don't dislike evrything about Usopp in that arc; for example, I for one am glad he didn't fight Spandam; had he fought the CP9's director I don't think I'd have been able to get rid of Eric Cartman's voice yelling in my head "CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!"
-
I believe Usopp was held back from doing something huge on purpose. He’s been in the middle of an internal conflict for a long, long time. His "fight" with Jabura showed that he was still unstable and shaken up, since he questioned what he was doing when he was beaten. Doing something really amazing would pretty much signal the end of his issues and it would be anticlimactic if that happened out of the blue. There wasn’t any reason for Usopp to suddenly rise up until Sanji gave him a wake-up call. That’s why I think Usopp’s moment has yet to come.
I’m looking at this arc as a turning point for his character. If you believed that he wasn’t an integral part of the crew up to now, then that shouldn’t be the case much longer. Usopp seems to have changed a bit already anyway. In the latest chapter (424), when Zoro told him not to interfere with Luffy's fight with Lucci, he didn't freak out insisting that they should help. He accepted it, while in the fight with Aokiji, Usopp didn't understand why the crew left Luffy to fight alone. I may be looking into it too much but it's something I noticed anyway.
-
people stop saying "gave hope to two giants" crap because all he did was tell them that they were lied to, any strawhat could have done that
and shot down the flag, if Usopp wasnt there Franky could have done it, it was all about being in the right place…. he isnt that irreplaceable in this arc...
-
people stop saying "gave hope to two giants" crap because all he did was tell them that they were lied to, any strawhat could have done that
and shot down the flag, if Usopp wasnt there Franky could have done it, it was all about being in the right place…. he isnt that irreplaceable in this arc...
**Yes Franky could have had shot down the flag. Yes any SH could have tols Oimo and Kaashi about their captians. But does this make it anyless mening full? These are all things that could have happned had Usopp not been there. Other may have been able to do what Usopp has done, but they didn't. Chopper could be easily replaced by some other world class doctor. Nami could be replaced by a world class navigater.
A lot of things can be subsituted. But that in no way makes them any less important.**
-
@Octogon:
**Yes Franky could have had shot down the flag. Yes any SH could have tols Oimo and Kaashi about their captians. But does this make it anyless mening full? These are all things that could have happned had Usopp not been there. Other may have been able to do what Usopp has done, but they didn't. Chopper could be easily replaced by some other world class doctor. Nami could be replaced by a world class navigater.
A lot of things can be subsituted. But that in no way makes them any less important.**
Yeah, ignoring arguments of Usopp's worth, saying "someone else could have done it" is a bad argument in this case. In this case, no one but Usopp could have spoken with the giants cause he was the only one left behind, and Franky couldn't have shot down the the flag cause he was on the other side and not a SH.
Plus, if you argue, "someone else could have done it" then a lot of people become replaceable.
Could Zoro have beaten Calipha and Fukurou at the same time? It's very possible, but then could he fight Kaku after that? Could Sanji beat the Mr. 4 pair? Maybe or maybe not, but who would be saving Vivi from Mr.2 in the meantime?
-
wow, Sabertoothe. I think your one of the very few people who can have a nice debate and disagree with people without pissing them off. At least for me anyways. I can see how Usopp, or other charicters can get annoying if you don't like laughing "AT" them. I however like laughing at charicters. I guess that's why I'm not bothered.
Meowch: nicely put.
-
You can't use Alabasta as an example. Everyone in Baroque Works was evenly matched with everyone in the strawhats.
Usopp and Chopper would have lost Horribly to Bon Kurei. Why? Because, like Luffy, they're young and susceptible to humor. Bon Kurei's antics would have them laughing non-stop while he kicked the shit outta them. Bon Kurei was a martial artist. In a sense, Sanji is, too. They were kicking each other so hard that the force caused the windows to shatter. They're a perfect match for each other.
Usopp has proved his worth many times. He saved Kaya from death at the hands of Jango, he saved Cocoyashi village from death at the hands of Chuu AND Arlong (Most notably Gen-san). He fought the Mr. 4 pair so that they wouldn't help Crocodile, and so on and so forth.
Usopp will do something fantastic when this arc ends. Either blowing up BC ships or setting the water on fire (Think "Greek Fire"). I can see him using some crazy move like:
Sure Killing Napalm Star
-
You know, I even start doubting he'll do something more before the end of the arc. I'd even say I'm ready to take a sig/avatar bet him sniping the marines is the last thing we've seen of him.
Meaning if he indeed does something noteworthy (and I mean really impressive and meaningful, not just sinking one ship to show off Kabuto while Zoro could have done exactly the same, he'd have to at least singlehandedly save the crew and do something nobody else could do), one of the Usopp fans I annoyed with my constant ramblings over the past few months could choose an avatar, custom text and sig I'll keep for, let's say a month.
If anyone cares…
-
You know, I even start doubting he'll do something more before the end of the arc.
man i hope usopp spends the rest of the arc just sitting on his ass cause i fricking love pissed off aldrich
-
@Fire Fist:
You know I was kidding about the Daylight Generator, right, Elric? ^^;
Yes, and it was great:
"all the marines look up and proclaim joy because night has finally fallen during perpetual day"
-
I'm not here to piss anyone off, just exclaim my opinion. Wolfwood, yeah, to do something just to make someone angry isn't really funny, its more or less hurting everyone else. Jinxing something like this and if it were to work, we would all be of a loss on it but Oda has shown that every character in the arc had an important part except for Skypiea, which was pretty much only Luffy since half the arc was about him trying to get to Enel.
-
Oda makes Usopp do what Oda wants. If Oda screwed up then Oda screwed up. If Oda does something awesome then he does something awesome. I'm personally going with Awesome, though not as awesome as he could have been but he DID do SOMETHING.
-
Its too bad that Usopp gave her the weapon in the first place. Without his inventing skills, she would still be a third rate character. You and Terek or whatever are just looking really negative. You say that Usopp plays small parts which makes him useless but you have to understand that all small parts also have a big part in everything. I'm tired of sitting here idle while two posters start to make it worst for something like this.
In every chapter of One Piece, Oda has brought to us a planned out story. Usopp isn't the type of character that Oda would forget about. Fact is, Usopp is still in the story and that shows that Oda hasn't forgotten about him. You are also forgetting that Oda did well on creating the coward of Usopp and because of that, Usopp's dream isn't finished. He wanted to be a man of the sea and if he were already that man, following the rest of the Straw Hats would be useless because he solved his dream. Being a coward till the very end is what Usopp will be.
I know he's a coward but calling him useless isn't something you should call him. You want useless? Try Tenten, Sakura, or Hinata in Naruto. You should be calling them useless for the fact that they don't have a very important part of the story except for Sakura PTJ, though she still is counted as worthless, but every little thing you brought up or went negative on was actually something useful for a bigger part. You can disagree, yet you say that your only here to say that he's jsut a secondary, yet you seem to want to start a flame war by pushing down on some people's favorite character and some people who like the character.
You are just biased….
Franky: Had the special part of actually trying to talk Robin out of losing faith.
Chopper: Eh, he fought some marines and rode on top of giant horses and then went Chopzilla.
Nami: Defeated a CP9
Sanji: Defeated a CP9
Zoro: Defeated a CP9 and got Nami and Chopper to the top of the building quicker.
Luffy: Dfeated a CP9 and is now fighting Lucchi, also defeated several marines.
Usopp: Gave hope to the two Giants of Elbaf, which joined sides with Sogeking and the rest of the Straw Hats. Gave signal to go to war with the W.G. Shot down a marine that was with Spandam.(also, there were explosives where Franky was, which might of made it hard for him to get there quicker)
Robin: captive; reason for the whole Enis Lobby arc.
My point is that all the characters in the Straw Hat crew had some kind of role in this arc and every arc of all of One Piece. If Usopp was a lost cause, why take him this far into the series, I really don't know but most of the role he had played in has gotten him an actual fanbase.
Also in another topic, you said that the reason Oda chose Sanji to win was because Sanji had a bigger fanbase, why would Oda base his story on a fanbase? The whole thing about having fans to a character is also saying that they are a fan of Oda because he creates the personalities and he creates the story itself. He chooses who dies and who doesn't.
When the fanbase started to rot on the man who made "Hikaru no Go", he didn't listen to them just to bring Sai back, he quit.
You spoke great! I much agreed with you. Oda has always ignore fanbase and would do everything he wants with it.
Some Usopp fans just acts like they contorl the story and they always want Usopp to fight big godly enemies just to rejoin the crew and have the Usopp fanbase fill up with rabid new Usopp fans. I'm glad that Oda never listen to fanbase.
They think for Usopp the rejoin to crew, he has to fight some godly powerful enemy. Ever since the Going Marry sank, I've been studying the motive of some Usopp(amittily, I was one of the rabid Usopp fans, now anymore.) I it seems to me that some of the Usopp fans think Oda is stupid and they think they know better on how to make Usopp rejoin the crew; they think Oda don't know how to get Usopp to rejoin the crew.
But what Oda showed here that Usopp don't have to do the big thing to prove his self-wroth, he did small things to make his confident to grow which is better then fighting and already, Usopp will rejoin the crew without fighting strong godly character. This is what Oda is trying to do here and no one wanted to be happy about it, they can't accept that because they think for Usopp to rejoin the crew; he needs a extreme measure to do that. That is his duty as an writer, he decided what to with his story and he will not listen to rabid fanbase.
Tell me, how would you like it when your drawing an popular graphic novel and some fans burst in your office and screamed "Don't do that! Don't do this! Don't kill him! Let them live!" How would you feel? If you sell your soul to the fanbase, your story will become messed up; in reality many writers would ask "Who's writing the story? You or me?". If that happened to me I would throw all my equiments to my fans and walk off in fustration. Most writers would just quit and leave his work unfinished.
Usopp fans, no worries here, I won't bite your head off; let me ask you an simple yes or no qustions: The guy who did "Hikaru no Go" quitted due to fanbase pressure; now if you keep brickering Oda to give Usopp an big fight and Oda decided to quit, is that what you want? Do you want Oda to quit working on One Piece? Think about if that happens, how will you feel? Again, think about it.
I apologize for being pissy here, pardon me if I sounded mean; I'm trying to defend Oda and I don't want him to give in to rabid fanbase. I understand your fustrations also but why can't we get over it? Oda knows what he's doing and he decided on how to keep Usopp in the story, he makes all choices and that free will of his makes his story great, it won't be great if he listens to rabid fanbases. If you don't like what Oda is doing, too bad; why are you reading the story? I was an rabid Usopp fan untie Usopp was taken away to the sea trian because I became disappointed. I have to admit I was disappointed when Usopp did not fight Kaku and Jabura so I decided to just shut up and see what Oda will do next, now I simply waited to see how Oda will do with Usopp after this arc is finished without any expections.
We fans job are suppose to enjoy the series, not pressure Oda to meet our expections. We are suppose to be happy what Oda has given us, not get all negitive about it. Yes, some part of the story can be bad but Oda has done many great things with his story.
Right now, I'm tired of thses Usopp arguement but I'm very patiance man. So so I hope that this arc finished just to shut some Usopp fans up and I'll be really pissed off of they can't shut up so I going to stay away from these arguments to avart my anger. So long and no offense to some Usoop fans
-
You know, saying "this is Oda's story and he'll do what he wants" is a really bad arguement. That's a given, and it doesn't mean we'll like it.
Now, as for Usopp, I dunno. I'm suspicious of how Oda's done so well with all his other main characters yet not Usopp. He has something planned, Usopp's story is one of the weak becoming strong. I could imagine Usopp doing something awesome at the end of the arc.
-
I think Usopp fans should be glad that he is a part of this arc and did what he did so far
I think he already realized that the crew needs him and that he isn't weak at least not compare to normal human (because CP9 are all super-human)
He did help make things happen many people seem to ignore that:
1 - He became SogeKing to help2 - He was the first one to tell Robin that the crew likes her and she should trust in them
3 - He also was the one that talked to the giants and told them the truth about Dorry and Brogy
4 - Also he shoot the WG flag when Luffy asked him to
5 - More he did try to fight Jyabura even if it's impossible to become a super-human from one minute to another, Sanji helped him and he understood why
6 - He snipped the Marines shooting at Nico Robin and made the keys arrive at Franky's hands, if he didn't do that Nico Robin would be in cuffs to at least in chapter 423
So he did see action but real Usopp fans should already know this
And don't expect him to become super-human from one minute to another because that not going to happen
He was always the coward guy that cheats and lies and runs but has a dream to become stronger, this takes time, and not much time has passed since them, but we already see changes in his attitude, it's like one step at a time but that's what makes him a great character and that's also why Luffy wanted him to be a crew member
For me even if he doesn't see anymore action in this arc I'm glad that he's getting to face is fears and become closer to his dream
Just see the first chapters and you'll know what I'm talking about
-
I think Usopp fans should be glad that he is a part of this arc and did what he did so far
I think he already realized that the crew needs him and that he isn't weak at least not compare to normal human (because CP9 are all super-human)
He did help make things happen many people seem to ignore that:
1 - He became SogeKing to help2 - He was the first one to tell Robin that the crew likes her and she should trust in them
3 - He also was the one that talked to the giants and told them the truth about Dorry and Brogy
4 - Also he shoot the WG flag when Luffy asked him to
5 - More he did try to fight Jyabura even if it's impossible to become a super-human form one minute to another, Sanji helped him and he understood why
6 - He snipped the Marines shooting at Nico Robin and made the keys arrive at Franky's at hands if he didn't do that Nico Robin would be in cuffs to at least in chapter 423
So he did see action but real Usopp fans should already know this
For me even if he doesn't see anymore action in this arc I'm glad that he's getting to face is fears and become closer to his dreams
Just watch the first chapters and you know what I'm talking about
Yeah, it seems like Usopp is doing everything that doesn't require superstrength.
-
Yeah, it seems like Usopp is doing everything that doesn't require superstrength.
That's probably the point that Oda wants to portrait Usopp as….we all know he is a freaking coward.......we all know he is the weakest of the mugiwaras, but does it matter what we think? Usopp is a mugiwara, and he did his part.......
Luffy accepts what Usopp really is.
so does Nami,
so does Zoro,
so does Sanji,
so does Chopper,
so does Robin.why can't you all?
I really don't want to say it, but I think Luffy understands Usopp more than some of you all here. And it was WAY back during the Arlong arc........
-
Ignoring getting into arguments…something to think about:
Being a Straw Hat is not all about performing miracles. Where would Usopp go otherwise? Luffy had no choice but to fight to settle things in such a manner, since it was Usopp's decision. His mindset and personality fits really well for the Straw Hat crew, and Luffy would take him back in an instant if Usopp decides to come back recalls Luffy whispering his name.
One of the best things about OP is it doesn't take itself seriously, on top of the fact that people make mistakes. They have personalities of their own that prevent them from having a one-track mind. I say this as I recall a review saying, "Enemies in this show are really dumb. There are countless times where the enemy could destroy one of the characters but instead they do something really dumb." Enemies are human, too. They're not maniacal killing machines. You have to consider their motives (and it's not as if our heroes can't defend themselves during a talking sequence that abruptly turns into a battle, which is what that review seems to be expecting). However, unfortunately, due to the nature of the genre (or bad storytelling I forget which), there are not-so-narrow escapes. When Croc dries Luffy for the 2nd time, why didn't he tear through that kid like none other? He already said he'd lost his patience. But isn't this general idea true for most fictional works? Relating back to the point sort of: Usopp is the most human person on this show, next to Nami. It would be nice to hear some suggestions on what Usopp could have done to redeem himself, and why that would fit with the rest of the stor...oh crap the story isn't even over yet.
-
@Octogon:
**I agree about everything said about usopp above.
but what really amazes me is how people treat his fighting abilities. He's not supposed to fight people like Jabura or the Mr.4 pair. He's supposed to fight someone like him, a sniper. You can't expect him to be able to fight Jabura or someone like him correctly if he is that close to them. But if he fought a sniper (the people he's supposed to fight) he'll be just about the only one on the crew who could defeat him. I think the reason Oda refrained from having an acutal sniper battle is because his previous weapon didn't cut it. The weapon itself was nothing, mere childs toy, only the ammo made a differance. But now he has a weapon he has made just for that purpose. So I'm certain next arc we'll most likley have a sniper enemy.**
agree 100% it'd be like Sanji trying to fight a sniper or a real long range person it just wouldn't work
-
Well, if ODA is smart, he will not hear fanbase moaning.
But then you argue, "isn´t fanbase opinions positive to a work?"
I answer: they are as positive as capable of causing epic damage…
Now, another point I´d like to bring. Some people says that Usopp shines only in the suportive role. But doesn´t all the others SHs do that also? I mean, of course he acomplishes meagninfull things here and there, but all the other SH do that on a regular basis also.
And add to that, so far, Usopp has not failed as a fighter as well, he defeated someone when there were fights planed for all the SH: Chuu, Mr. 4 pair, there were not enough priests to fight in skypea, but then again neither Nami nor Robin got real fights on this arc (and Chopper as well, since Gedatsu was kinda of lame, a joke mostly).
And then comes the dreaded CP9 arc. But here as well Usopp had a fight as a SH, against Ruffy, and a good one.
The problem with Usopp is, he has to many high and lows. Although we can trust that he will try to do things when the time comes, we never know if he will actually get them done. He did not back-off against Jyabura, it was Sanji that butted-in (saved his ass would be more like it, but we never know how it would end had Sanji not interfered). Neverthless, this last part is pure speculation, although usefful to determine that Usopp´s acomplishments, not his behavior, are the truly chaotic things (hence why he hasn´t failed as fighter, he just failed to win).
We know that he aways had a rivalrity with Ruffy for the Captain position. It´s the fact that he is weak that drives his will to be at the spot that belongs to the strongest one in the crew. He held a grudge against Ruffy being what he is, and that just exploded on this arc. But Ruffy also had problems with Usopp´s position, since he himself showed that he did not have all that respect he faked to have, as if treating him as equal was a sincere aproach. notice that Usopp is also Ruffy closest friend on the Merry, and it is heavily implied through the series (a fact wich only results in more grief for both). If they do overcome those diferences, Usopp will be able to board the SH again, else...
There is this possibility that maybe ODA will make him just go the entire series as a "burden", a good for nothing guy that tries to improve all the time and never seems to get really better, almost always depending on his friends for help (sometimes having luck to solve something alone, others not). And although what lacks in this type of person is not spirit, force of will, hard-working posture and integrity, they just never get anywhere without help because they are just not so strong, capable or confident. I know a lot of persons like that... would you like a friend any less if he was like that?... Would you throw him away if sometimes he was more of a burden than a help?... And believe me, when these people get to the top, even if "pushed" a lot along the way, they do surprise us.
The day Usopp stops being what he is now, he will not be Usopp anymore, he will be "Captain Usopp", and them, be sure, he himself will not be able to see his role as that of an underling, since he has that burning will to become a leader, much like Ruffy is. Also, I´m sure Ruffy would not want two captains in his vessel. That´s what makes Usopp essencialy diferent from Zoro, that is simply a good soldier (having no potental for leadership whatsoever).
I know part of this kinda sounds as a excuse for what Usopp is, and is sort of, and I hope ODA proves me again, as soon as possible, that Usopp truly has that potential that only a lot of hard work and help from others can make appear. But if he does not, Usopp will still be my 3rd prefered character, whatever happens. After all, he already earned my trust.
-
Uh, shouldn't we take a break until next Thursday? Most of the credible arguments were outlined in the first two pages so almost everything else is either a rehash, a flame, or incoherent rambling. :/
-
Oh I forgot to mention that my guess for the reason Usopp hasn't had his 'cool' moment or whatever yet is well..he's NOT Usopp right now.
Usopp will realize his worthy, toss aside the Sogeking costume or take off the mask and it will be the bold moment and then he will do whatever awesome thing he ends up doing at the end of the arc. Mark my words.