The Simpsons

valiantt

I'm sure they have - hell soon there will be a crossover episode with Family Guy. However I think the problem with the Simpsons is they've already done most stories I think the only place they could go is actually killing off one of the 5 main family members as something they haven't done yet.

Since when? Since John K animated an opening for them once?

Oh and the crossover isn't a "risk", its another standard marketing ploy that is bound to succeed. And the problem is not strictly recycled plot, but FORCING pop culture and guest stars into the narrative simply because the writers don't know what else to do. The episodes don't feel natural and haven't been for almost a decade. Yes, the GOOD episodes of the simpsons had pop culture refences ALL the time, but it wasn't ALWAYS the focal point (occasionally they were, but at the same time the references were based AROUND a narrative rather than the narrative being based strictly AROUND the pop culture/guest stars). Because of the latter, everything feels incredibly hamfisted and artificial verses its hay day. Also they've been really…making the secondary characters extraodinarily bizzare. It is hard to note what exactly they're doing with them unless you compare them in the older seasons and their most recent depictions.

Nobodyman

valiantt

@No:

You meant superior btw ?

I know but after a while, when you end up writing an episode that is literally setting up conflict that never happens and that's over before any kind of on-going plot can actualy start happening (Brake my Wife Please, The Changing of the Guardian), don't you get the feeling of, you know, wanting to DO something every once in a while ?

Also this may be a stupid question but come Ling has grown significantly since last we saw her and can both walk and talk, yet Maggie is still the exact same age she was when Selma adopted Ling ? I mean how will they hand wave heir way out of that one ?

No, I mean inferior as in they already used up plots from the superior OLDER episodes and now they are starting to pick apart the "Inferior" plots of older episodes because…yeah, running on fumes.

PS: Don't try to find any continuity in the simpsons. It's already been tossed out the window a long while ago.

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@korobka:

Wasn't there another show that called out television for being bland and formulaic? "But that's not why people watch TV. Clever things make people feel stupid and unexpected things make them feel scared." What was that show called again? I know it definitely wasn't created by Matt Groening…

Actually this was Futurama with "Single Female Lawyer" (Oops…didn't see the sarcasm part....opps...opps)

korobka

@valiantt:

Actually this was Futurama with "Single Female Lawyer"

That's exactly why I put "sarcasm, sarcasm" at the bottom. I guess I still have to work on making myself more obvious.

And granted that episode wasn't written by Matt, but it was done by Ken Keeler, a guy who's worked on both series.

Robby

@valiantt:

It will only end when either one of the major simpsons' cast member or Matt Groening dies (that isn't Phil Hartman) and/or the show isn't financially sound (which the former is most likely to happen at this point).

The VA's all took massive paycuts last season to keep the show running.

It's not the money behemoth it used to be, though witht he merchandising snd syndication at all it probably reamins decently profitable… but still, we might actually see it cancelled in our lifetimes.

@No:

Also this may be a stupid question but come Ling has grown significantly since last we saw her and can both walk and talk, yet Maggie is still the exact same age she was when Selma adopted Ling ? I mean how will they hand wave heir way out of that one ?

Same reason Apu can get married and have kids… or over on Family Guy Stewie's half-brother can be born without passage of time. It just... happens.

The weird one is King of the Hill, where one of the kids hit puberty, and the other two didn't.

No Maam

@valiantt:

Since when? Since John K animated an opening for them once?

Oh and the crossover isn't a "risk", its another standard marketing ploy that is bound to succeed. And the problem is not strictly recycled plot, but FORCING pop culture and guest stars into the narrative simply because the writers don't know what else to do.

I think that's evident from the fact of them resorting to so many episodes constiting of well-known stories, fairy tales and movies everyone knows "adapted" for the Simpsons.

korobka

@No:

I think that's evident from the fact of them resorting to so many episodes constiting of well-known stories, fairy tales and movies everyone knows "adapted" for the Simpsons.

Why am I not surprised? THIS, more than anything else, is what I consider to be the absolute worst and laziest kind of writing for animated series. It's bad enough when kid's shows do. ("Oh, but they're too young to have seen that movie, so we can get away with completely rehashing it!" When you're doing it on a program where your audience knows better? It just shows how desperate you are for ideas.

wolfwood

I will now drop the best suggestion you'll hear all day you all

Axe the Simpsons and bring back the old Dilbert cartoon

No Maam

@korobka:

Why am I not surprised? THIS, more than anything else, is what I consider to be the absolute worst and laziest kind of writing for animated series. It's bad enough when kid's shows do. ("Oh, but they're too young to have seen that movie, so we can get away with completely rehashing it!" When you're doing it on a program where your audience knows better? It just shows how desperate you are for ideas.

That and being waaaaay too late for the party.

For example, making fun of Lost in 2012.

But yeah, that's the worst possible thing they do, and they do it constantly.

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I mean, have you seen The Count of Monte Fatso ? Does anyone here think it any good ? Anyone ?

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@RobbyBevard:

Same reason Apu can get married and have kids… or over on Family Guy Stewie's half-brother can be born without passage of time. It just... happens.

The weird one is King of the Hill, where one of the kids hit puberty, and the other two didn't.

I just want to know if they'll actualy have her age any further, then we'd know they think their audience is stupid.

wolfwood

I remember that one being somewhat amusing

The french language bits were fun

No Maam

@wolfwoof:

I remember that one being somewhat amusing

The french language bits were fun

It's not about one or two amusing bits.

It's about…..the fact they never should have went there in the first place.

Femme

Are Bart and Lisa still in the same grades?
There's no reason why they couldn't have changed that up.

Ahh, the years of "I choo-choo-choose you" and the episode where Bart & Lisa are competing on different hockey teams (I still use the "Kill Bart!" Vs. "Kill, Bart!" As a teaching example lol). The show did well with simple themes. To be honest, the episodes I liked the best were the ones with heartwarming conclusions.

No Maam

@Femme:

Are Bart and Lisa still in the same grades?
There's no reason why they couldn't have changed that up.

Yep.

Bart is still 10.

Femme

@No:

Yep.

Bart is still 10.

That's dumb. There's so much they could do if they aged the characters a little.

Robby

I wonder if the Japanese express this same complaint towards Sazae-san or Kochikame, or they just accept that its a slice of life animated thing.

The problem isn't that the characters don't age. Its that the show stopped caring long long ago.

South Park plays with changing things ocassionally but don't stray far. At least there the creators blatantly admit they're bored and hate their jobs and churn it out as fast as possible and they only keep doing it because it is a LOT of money. (and the overall quality is still really high that considered… Parker's natural talent I guess.)

Print Error

I saw

from a Simpsons episode from the past few years, and it occurred to me that something like this would be a fantastic way to finish the series - to show what happens to the characters we got to know, beyond their animated Groundhog Day that they are currently stuck in. As it currently stands, I'll watch an episode if it's on, but I won't go out of my way. Watching a classic episode really shows how much my Simpsons expectations have fallen :/

wolfwood

I thought Matt and Trey denied the rumours that they were bored with South Park?

Robby

Yeah, Holidays of Future Passed was one of their best episodes in a looooong time, it actually would have worked as a series finale.

Something similar for the real ending would be good, though maybe start the timeline where the show actually did and get them to actual present day, rather than a sci-fi future.

Nobodyman

@RobbyBevard:

I wonder if the Japanese express this same complaint towards Sazae-san or Kochikame, or they just accept that its a slice of life animated thing.

Well, if a series goes on long enough, I guess it eventually will reach a point where it just can't have the same punch it used to have and just reaches this plateau of consistent decency. Think newspaper comics like Blondie or Family Circus or Beetle Bailey. Nobody reads those religiously anymore (if they ever did), but it's still a pleasant thing to read if you happen to see it.

Or in the case of Simpsons or Garfield, they sold their soul long ago and they keep it around because it makes money.

Also, in Seth McFarlane related news, Cleveland Show has been cancelled (1 down, 2 to go) and American Dad is being moved to TBS.

Robby

@wolfwoof:

I thought Matt and Trey denied the rumours that they were bored with South Park?

It's REALLY blantant in the writing of quite a few episodes where the characters bitch about the nature of doing the same things forever, people changing and wanting to do something different, or how any series can only say something for so long. And they say it ALL THE TIME in interviews and have been for years. There was abehind the scenes special a couple years ago that showed the making of an ep start to finish and it really came off as though they were treating the show like homework that they forgot to do, and would much rather be out say… making broadway musicals or something.

Plus, their latest contract has them doing less episodes a year and only one batch, so they're down from 14 eps to 10 and only working on the show for 3 months in the fall instead of 5 months throughout the year.

If its just an inside personal joke, they're pretty consistent about being tired of it and wanting to do other stuff.

valiantt

@Nobodyman:

Also, in Seth McFarlane related news, Cleveland Show has been cancelled (1 down, 2 to go) and American Dad is being moved to TBS.

Oh thank god…but I doubt this is going to knock any sense into Seth's head though. He'll probably come up with another Family Guy-ish variation again in another year or so.

MetaMario

@Nobodyman:

Also, in Seth McFarlane related news, Cleveland Show has been cancelled (1 down, 2 to go) and American Dad is being moved to TBS.

EDIT: Never mind, someone posted it already

No Maam

@Femme:

That's dumb. There's so much they could do if they aged the characters a little.

That is word-per-word what I've been suggesting for years !

O_O

Are you me from the future ?

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@RobbyBevard:

Yeah, Holidays of Future Passed was one of their best episodes in a looooong time, it actually would have worked as a series finale.

Something similar for the real ending would be good, though maybe start the timeline where the show actually did and get them to actual present day, rather than a sci-fi future.

That is a fantastic proposal Robby.

I mean I'd still preffer the show to play around with actual character evolution before it ends but such an ending would realy be great. Not making up for ten plus years of semi-mediocrity bordering on-crap but good enough to act as the long-delayed ending of like season ten that was somehow lost after production had ended and was only rediscovered now. :ninja:

Foolio

@No:

That is word-per-word what I've been suggesting for years !

O_O

Are you me from the future ?

Yeah but they also could have cancelled the show years ago like they even said they would. Why don't they? It makes money. That's the only reason it's still going, and aging the characters would be a "risk" to the formula that apparently is working. Even if we're yawning.

God it's depressing to actually think about. I learned a substantial portion of my pop culture knowledge, or at least introductory knowledge, from The Simpsons growing up. I can whip out a quote for just about any situation… and then the last several years happened.

No Maam

@Nobodyman:

Also, in Seth McFarlane related news, Cleveland Show has been cancelled

YES.

SWEET GOD YES.

(In other words, not a fan :ninja:)

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@Foolio:

Yeah but they also could have cancelled the show years ago like they even said they would. Why don't they? It makes money. That's the only reason it's still going, and aging the characters would be a "risk" to the formula that apparently is working. Even if we're yawning.

God it's depressing to actually think about. I learned a substantial portion of my pop culture knowledge, or at least introductory knowledge, from The Simpsons growing up. I can whip out a quote for just about any situation… and then the last several years happened.

Let me make that even more depressing by pointing out that, not counting the shorts, the current Simpsons show has been continously running since December 17th 1989.

So the Simpsons began airing in the 80's.

Foolio

Yeah I'm well aware of that, though aside from the initial shorts didn't the regular series not start until 1990 or 1991? At any rate I wasn't even 3 years old yet in '89 so yeah…

No Maam

@Foolio:

Yeah I'm well aware of that, though aside from the initial shorts didn't the regular series not start until 1990 or 1991? At any rate I wasn't even 3 years old yet in '89 so yeah…

The shorts started airing in 87, the regular series began airing on December 17th 1989.

MetaMario

@No:

YES.

SWEET GOD YES.

(In other words, not a fan :ninja:)

I remember reading American Dad will wrap up after its 10th season (9th season will be this fall), so that has a definite end point. As for Family Guy…...sigh no word on that front.

No Maam

@MetaMario:

I remember reading American Dad will wrap up after its 10th season (9th season will be this fall), so that has a definite end point. As for Family Guy…...sigh no word on that front.

Never seen American Dad, but I've seen Family Guy and Family Guy Black and both are equally horrible to me.

Print Error

The shorts started airing on 19 April 1987, making the Simpsons only two months younger than me.

To put that into context, if the Simpsons had aged from that point…

Homer would now be 66, Marge would be 62, Bart would be 36, Lisa would be 34, and Maggie would be 27.

wolfwood

@MetaMario:

I remember reading American Dad will wrap up after its 10th season (9th season will be this fall), so that has a definite end point..

Sad but atleast they had a good run

Nobodyman

@MetaMario:

I remember reading American Dad will wrap up after its 10th season (9th season will be this fall), so that has a definite end point. As for Family Guy…...sigh no word on that front.

Well, the most recent season had the lowest overall viewers since the show came back (not that it's a huge difference or detriment to the show), but it still managed a better ranking than the year before (I guess the rating index changed). So yeah, no signs of stopping any time soon from what I can tell.

@No:

Never seen American Dad, but I've seen Family Guy and Family Guy Black and both are equally horrible to me.

For me, American Dad was actually the most enjoyable/tolerable MacFarlane for a while, but now it's become awful as well.

Robby

American Dad at least had the benefit of the cast staying in character and doing actual plots (no cutaway gags) and the characters mostly actually being likebale, (And without turning anyone into a "we hate Meg" joke) but they've more and more moved towards just wacky Roger antics and randomness.

wolfwood

The haunted hot tub ep would've been a great end

-Stan's dead! Says Cee-lo

Nobodyman

@RobbyBevard:

and the characters mostly actually being likebale

And then Roger become a homicidal lunatic.

Foolio

@RobbyBevard:

American Dad at least had the benefit of the cast staying in character and doing actual plots (no cutaway gags) and the characters mostly actually being likebale, (And without turning anyone into a "we hate Meg" joke) but they've more and more moved towards just wacky Roger antics and randomness.

Isn't this the same thing that happened with The Simpsons after a dozen or so seasons though? They had tons of great material and actual plots, mostly parodies of media and culture. Then they ran out and the show just turned into Homer doing increasingly stupid things.

Robby

I loved it when Haley actually married Jeff and it opened up new roads for the characters and changed up the dynamics some and they actually got quite a few stories out of the change.

And then they unceremoniously got rid of him.

Smiley

Did he got killed?

Nobodyman

@Smiley:

Did he got killed?

He was taken away by Roger's alien race.

Smiley

@Nobodyman:

He was taken away by Roger's alien race.

And Roger was the one that wanted to go?:ninja:

wolfwood

Well he should be back sometime during the next season

Unless he and Sinbad hit up some other planet instead

valiantt

Yeah imo American Dad seems like the least worst of the three (and at times ACTUALLY better than the Simpsons) since it is a whole lot more narrative/character based than the other two. Also there is a lot more continuity which requires more thought on the writers' side and the characters are actually fleshed out with some really interesting back story from each of them.

Conekiller

Whatever becane of the MacFarlane directed Flintstones reboot the internet was bemoaning?

WarshipArc

@Conekiller:

Whatever becane of the MacFarlane directed Flintstones reboot the internet was bemoaning?

Nobody knows, my guess is that it was put on the back burner so he could do the Cosmos remake.

LightningAce

@Femme:

When is the show ending? I haven't watched in several years since it went downhill.

Season 21 and 22 actually had some really good episodes in it, at least in my opinion. The Squirt and the Whale episode was brilliant imo.

Daz

I've tried a multitude of different explanations as to why I don't care about "New Simpsons" (e.g. everything past season 10, so most Simpsons), and aside from the obvious lack of heart, I think the main gripe for me is ridiculously simple:

The writing doesn't work for me. In terms of pacing, delivery, imagery and overall style of jokes, it just isn't my type of humor anymore, and they have-or at least had- an over relience on the exact same joke format

Homer asks a question or makes a demand; finishes the sentence with a fistshaking "cause if it is…!" or something to that effect.

Someone brings up a minor issue; Homer breaks down in tears instantly and runs out of the room. I remember the last one happening a lot.

Foolio

@The:

I've tried a multitude of different explanations as to why I don't care about "New Simpsons" (e.g. everything past season 10, so most Simpsons), and aside from the obvious lack of heart, I think the main gripe for me is ridiculously simple:

The writing doesn't work for me. In terms of pacing, delivery, imagery and overall style of jokes, it just isn't my type of humor anymore, and they have-or at least had- an over relience on the exact same joke format

Homer asks a question or makes a demand; finishes the sentence with a fistshaking "cause if it is…!" or something to that effect.

Someone brings up a minor issue; Homer breaks down in tears instantly and runs out of the room. I remember the last one happening a lot.

Yeah everything you mentioned is just a symptom of bad/uncreative writing. Personality quirks and gimmicks can't carry a show, and their humor also fades over time. You know, I said they ran out of material, which is partly true in the sense that they exhausted a lot of pop culture and media, but it's not like there's actually nothing left to write about. You really do have to attribute it mostly to plain bad scripts. With bad (or non-existent) plots and bad dialogue.

LUFFY1fan

@Conekiller:

Whatever becane of the MacFarlane directed Flintstones reboot the internet was bemoaning?

I've got a feeling with cleveland show ending and him not really working on American Dad much these days that he will probably start putting his Flinstones reboot in production next year.

Femme

@LightningAce:

Season 21 and 22 actually had some really good episodes in it, at least in my opinion. The Squirt and the Whale episode was brilliant imo.

Last time I watched an episode of Simpsons, I did not laugh, chuckle, smile, smirk, or even think "heh, that's funny" in my head.
So if you're telling me those two eps are capable of some of those, I might give it a try.

Sano

I mostly consider Seasons 3 - 8 of the Simpsons, when the show was at its best. I have to admit that I'm excited for the Simpsons and Futurama crossover episode.