@desa said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
If it's not too much ask, could you perhaps word this a little differently please? I'm a little embarrassed to admit it but this is definitely one of the cases where my English skills don't keep up.^^'
Lets say Boa tells Helmeppo, Coby and Momanga to run get her flowers.
Helmeppo runs to it, Coby gets red but say he cant leave his post, and Momonga just ignore the dumb request.
They all have the attraction ( they think she's hot) but they have different will (resistance to obeying because she's hot).
Your attraction leaves you vulnerable to the fruit and Boa's requests.
Your will protect you from Boa's requests but not from the fruit.
When Blackbeard say no man can resist her charm/spell. I think he is clearly saying that he think she's hot and there's no way any man would disagree with that.
So while Blackbeard has great will (wont let her go just because she's hot) he made clear he had some attraction (she's f**ckable) and thats all the fruit need you to think to work.
Thank you very much. Totally get what you are saying now. If you put it that way I totally see your point. The only thing I would add, not as a full counter but as alternative take for consideration is, that one can completely acknowledge another persons objective attractiveness without being attracted to said person themselves.
I just know from myself that there's some women, where I can totally see what others find sexy about them. But it just doesn't appeal to me and I would never want to bang them. But I don't want to go down the route now and say that Blackbeard feels that way. I mean it's a possibility since that concept exists but there's no way I can tell whether it's it applies or not. So you pretty much convinced me of your point.
That's actually the core of the problem. Her powers function in whatever direction the plot wants them to go. If we can call that out as problematic for Law's ability it's only fair to do the same for Hancock.
Law's power mostly bother me because it does way to many stuff. If it did only one thing even if its freaking dumb I probably wouldnt care. but telportation, radiation, electricty and now robbing sound? Thats just way to many unrelated applications of one fruit.
Kuma pushing both people and concept like pain? Thats weird but I'm game cause its the one pushing power. As long as Boa power can only stone stuff I'll be fine with it. if she start reasing mind because of it I will start having a problem.
Kuma's powers is something I never understood. Not because they are too hax but because I cannot see what warp bubbles and draining pain of someone's body have to do with paws. For all the flaws Law's fruit has, at least they are connected to actual surgery. Insanely exaggerated sure! But still there's a connection. For Kuma I don't see it. I mean he might aswell have the Claw fruit instead of a Paw fruit and you could pull the same randomness with it.
Right. And just as mentioned in a previous post, this isn't even the first time he didn't get something out of it. When he ran away from Akainu not only did he NOT get the ship he wanted, but he also let them have Bonney for free, who was his bargaining chip to begin with.
I dont mind it much pre timeskip when they are still growing so they are still running from the big dogs. There's a point being made that they are growing to the next stage while Luffy is training. But it should have changed post timeskip. Burguess should be trading blows with Marco and only leaving because now that there are 2 admirals and tsuru plus its not worth it anymore. Devon should be having an exchange with Boa until Blakbeard step in to take control of the situation. At this point they shouldnt still be the punching bags of the big leagues they should be part of it.
To use a dragonball analogy Cell was running away for a while because of his lack of power and trying to build to his final form. But at some point he amassed enough power to beat Picollo and after that even when he was losing he managed to turn it into a win. C-16 was a problem but he managed to get 17. Vegeta had him but he got 18 and then destroyed him. So when the final confrontation rolled him. He was a foe you've seen be a big threat for a while.
I get what you mean. It's true we can give him a bit more leeway for the pre-timeskip events. But if we look at it as a whole then it weighs differently because at that point it starts to look like a pattern.
At this point I wonder if Oda isnt just satisfied that Blackbeard is technically strong and that should be enough and we will never get that beating Picollo moment and giving you that feeling of unstoppobable threat only the strawhats can stop.
At this point I'm not even sure anymore what to think of him. I mean I definitely do see the final fight invovle Teach vs. Luffy. But lately I'm more and more convinced that at some point Rocks will take over and be the real big bad, being even more of a threat than Teach. I surely hope it won't get that way though. But I can't shake the feeling that the way Oda uses Teach is just to create a the manga's strongest stepping stone rather than the strongest main antagonist.
@puffing-cinema said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@puffing-cinema said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
No, I don't but just for shits and giggles, let's go the extra mile and prove it to you. You said it your previous post that Teach "manages to secure his goals even though he struggles in doing so". Well, we debunk this right easily. (...) Again, I don't know how you read it, but to me this is another failure of securing his goals.
While all your exemples are correct, he got a lot of shit done: got the fruit he wanted, captured a high bounty character, got accepted as a Shichibukai, raided the most well guarded prision in the series (by word of God), got a crew that allowed him to conquer WB's past territory, got the DFs he wanted, won a war against WB remnants, dethroned Fullaled's previous owner, and became an Yonko. So, all in all, I'd say that he got a lot of his goals.
If we now start to list every little bit of success as him accomplishing his goals we could do the same for every character. Crocodile successfully created an orginazation with the goal to take over a counry. Arlong successfully controlled an island for 8 years, Enel successfully made it to his Fairy Verse etc. We were talking specifically about the situations when he was running away. And in two of those situations he failed miserably.
By bringing a phrase without context you forget to keep in mind that my point is that BB is a flawed villain, that he'll have to struggle a lot to get where he wants. That includes the notion that he won't always succed. You are right when you argue that he doesn't always get what he wants or do what he says he will do, but my whole reasoning is that even with situational failures, he ends up moving forward. When I said that I don't consider him a pathethic character is from the mind frame that he'll be a threat in the future and I don't think that people will have to break their suspense of disbelief for it to work. I think that's where we don't see eye to eye.
Well, I guess than we're in agreement then, because that's why I consider him to be a bit underwhelming. As said in my previous paragraph, he does accomplish things here and there. But we see a bit too many failures for a character that appears ever odd hundred chapters. With the Strawhats it doesn't hurt to see them fail because we witness their growth in real time. For Teach it's like "Hey, he's back on screen aaaaaand he failed again" That he conquered Whitebeards territory, defeated Marco and other in the Grudge War etc. is impressive. But it would be nicer to actually see those things happening than just hear about it. For Blackbeard his impressive feats are a little bit too often tell not show for my taste. I'd prefer it the other way around in order to take him serious.
Feel free to say I'm not making any points about Blackbeard being unimpressive and label it as power level wankery. But then please don't blame me when I call what you are doing Blackbeard wankery, as you clearly are making claims about the character which just don't apply to the scenes in question. All with the purpose of making Teach appear better than he actually is. Because he does NOT secure his goals as you claim.
I don't know why you are preaching that to me, when I'm not saying that he's a badass monster or trying to boost his reputation, on the contrary, he's a villain that struggles but yet managed to get to the top of the world. That's what I'm saying. He is despicted as someone who is a viable option to dispute the PK title with the protagonist, so the story is moving to make sure that he gets a mix of failures and success along the way. Yes, he failed to get a Navy Ship, yet he took over the title of Yonko. The disparity is a fun because of his character traits.
Same argument as above. A little bit more show and tell of his impressive feats would be nice. Then I'd have lesser problem of him failing "on screen" occationally.
Well, what can I say? I'm not making this up. It was an issue back then. And it's still a ridiculous idea. And calling a plan that invovles sneaking into a meeting between Warlords and Sengoku/Tsuru at Pangaea Castle, capturing a bounty of over 100 million and being made a Warlord 'simple' is a very weird interpretation of the word. I could think of many trems that begin with s, like silly, stupid, senseless to label that plan. Simple is not one of them.
lol I'll take your world for it then. I just don't understand how "I wanted something more complex" is a supposed to be taken as good reasoning or critique.
I guess for many, myself included it comes from the thought that with what we know about both him and how the OP world works, there should have been simpler ways to get this done. I mean Lafitte can friggin fly. If Teach can make up an elaborate plan like becoming a Warlord to enter Impel Down then surely, he would be able to come up with a plan how to use Lafitte's ability to make it to ID unnoticed. And that's not even considering the fact, that Lafitte can hypnotize people to do his bidding. Why not sneak up on some random Marine officers in charge of watch and whatnot, to ensure nobody notices them arriving? Seems simpler than what we got instead.
I mean just the prospect of sneaking into Pangaea Castle to be able to walk into Impel Down is like me sneaking into the White House to be able to walk into Alcatraz (when it was still operational). I just doesn't make sense that someone able of the first feat, needs to go through this entire "make me a Warlord" plan in order to get into that prison.
I think that since I didn't have a lot of expectations for BB plan I'm having trouble to imagine what else was on the table for him according to the fandom. Since the first breaching feat was to deliver a note, and the second was to raise a prison invasion and recruite crew members, it just makes sense that the second development needs a lot more of effort.
The thing is though that them invading Impel Down wasn't a master class performance on anything, that consisted of well laid out battle formations, infiltration strategies and predetermined escape routes. They literally just walzed in. They could have achieved the same thing by riding a hoot air balloon and dropping down on ID who didn't check the skies because Lafitte hypnotized everyone who was on watch.
I hope you don't mind me leaving out a reply to your remaining paragraphs, as it seems that we seem eye to eye on most of it anyways. Just wanted to let you know that I've read through it all.^^
