European Politics Thread

Nilitch

I'm roughly aware of what she thinks, even though I don't know every single thing Rowling said about the trans community, but again, she never faced court for her controversial comments. Which means that it's 100% legal to say what she says. Aren't discriminations some kind of offense in the UK ? That's unless if you believe that the law should be changed of course.

And she supports whom ? didn't know about that. To be honest, I'm no fan of her work so I just know about the "transphobic comments" she made through the newspapers

pariston_hill

@Ubiq:

https://i.imgur.com/PDLyPp9.png

Oh yes, we heard about the Armenian Genocide, but how about a second one?

Monkey King

@pariston_hill:

Oh yes, we heard about the Armenian Genocide, but how about a second one?

That would be the likely outcome in Artsakh yes, ugly things can and will happened as a regional hegemony (even a loathsome one) starts disintegrating like this.

wolfwood

More confirmation seems to be coming in that Russia will gradually drop aim of taking the whole country and move toward splitting the country in an eastern-western ukraine. Population displacement/replacement is reported to be happening in the east and a reform to allow the donbass region to merge with russia proper is supposedly on the table

Ubiq

@wolfwood:

More confirmation seems to be coming in that Russia will gradually drop aim of taking the whole country and move toward splitting the country in an eastern-western ukraine. Population displacement/replacement is reported to be happening in the east and a reform to allow the donbass region to merge with russia proper is supposedly on the table

At best, that means dropping it temporarily; Putin would eventually go after Odessa and its fellow ports since it'd not only make Ukraine landlocked and dependent on Russia for Black Sea access and oil but would directly connect Russia to Transnistria.

wolfwood

@Ubiq:

At best, that means dropping it temporarily; Putin would eventually go after Odessa and its fellow ports since it'd not only make Ukraine landlocked and dependent on Russia for Black Sea access and oil but would directly connect Russia to Transnistria.

The idea floated would mean neutrality, no nukes placed in the ukraine and security gurantees by NATO and Russia. But i'm not sure public opinion in neither Ukraine or Russia would stand for that kind of half loss/half win. It'd probably send a PR shockwave thru Russia that we could not even subdue a "friendly" region on our border, yet here we are playing at being a superpower. Could you walk it back and not look weak? Can Putin afford to look weak?

Wintermute

Russia violently gnawed away big chunks of an independent nation and got away with it. That, as sad as it is, is a win.

Johnny B. Decent

@Wintermute:

Russia violently gnawed away big chunks of an independent nation and got away with it. That, as sad as it is, is a win.

Well, that's the threat of nuclear weapons in the hands of a tyrant. A shame, too, with how utterly terrible Russia has been doing in this war, a NATO taskforce probably could kick their asses out in about a week.

pariston_hill

Lepen campaign started.

Satsuki

Lepen who now? What campaign?

Jabberwok

Leader of the essentially fascist far-right party in France that's started to cast itself as more moderate. Campaigning for Prime Minister, of course.

Satsuki

Oh, that bitch. Fabulous.

Monkey King

@Wintermute:

Russia violently gnawed away big chunks of an independent nation and got away with it. That, as sad as it is, is a win.

Why are you talking in the past tense about an ongoing war.

Ubiq

@Monkey:

Why are you talking in the past tense about an ongoing war.

Didn't you know the war was over and the whole attack on Kyiv was just a masterful feint so Russia could consolidate their gains elsewhere in Ukraine?

Don't pay any attention to the facts that they committed a ton of their best forces, especially elite paratroopers, to getting wiped out in said "feint" or that they're also losing ground to the Ukrainians in some of those other areas.

wolfwood

@Ubiq:

Didn't you know the war was over and the whole attack on Kyiv was just a masterful feint so Russia could consolidate their gains elsewhere in Ukraine?

Don't pay any attention to the facts that they committed a ton of their best forces, especially elite paratroopers, to getting wiped out in said "feint" or that they're also losing ground to the Ukrainians in some of those other areas.

I work with that guy. The it's just a brilliant scheme and you guys don't get Russian planning guy.

Ubiq

Japan is just dropping bilateral talks and declaring the Kuril Islands Japanese territory illegally occupied by Russia.

@wolfwood:

I work with that guy. The it's just a brilliant scheme and you guys don't get Russian planning guy.

It's a widespread theory that ranges from the far right with people like Mike Cernovich across the political spectrum to the far right with people like Glenn Greenwald.

wolfwood

Oh they are rightwing talking points. That explains a lot.

pariston_hill

@Ubiq:

Japan is just dropping bilateral talks and declaring the Kuril Islands Japanese territory illegally occupied by Russia.

They are aware that they didn't sign a peace treaty in WWII right?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Actually quite smart move. Is not on NATO but has a mutual protection deal with US, is using - I assume - the same bullshit argument of minority population protection that Putin uses.

Wintermute

@Monkey:

Why are you talking in the past tense about an ongoing war.

You forgot about the Krim? That was some years ago.

You know realpolitik. Please enlighten me how the Ukraine gets back all their territory now? Within a year? 10 years?

Monkey King

@Wintermute:

You forgot about the Krim? That was some years ago.

It was very confusing coming out of nowhere in the current context.

You know realpolitik. Please enlighten me how the Ukraine gets back all their territory now? Within a year? 10 years?

The Russian army collapsing from doing the war like they've been doing could very easily lead to Donetsk and Luhansk being retaken.
I'd say Crimea too if not for Russia officially considering it Russian territory.
What exactly are you mentioning realpolitick for anyway.

Smudger

So yesterday we finally had Putin play the 'energy' card, and pretty much stated that eastern European nations (Germany etc) would now have to pay in Rubels, amongst other points. Now this doesn't change things too much beyond helping prop up the Rubel, but it does however serve as a reminder that if they flicked the switch and cut off the energy supplies that the eastern European countries would collapse, as they have no alternative options and have done little to invest in renewable energy.

I mean…it's a sad day when you can quote Trump's view on this and say it was accurate. Many countries have shirked their responsibilities towards NATO membership, renewable energy and of course, becoming too reliant on Russia.

But maybe the silver lining will be that we've all got a wake-up call in relation to what's been keeping the lights on.

MDL

After 2+ weeks of no contact and fearing he could be dead,
my Ukrainian friend gave me an update.

Ubiq

Kazakhstan apparently not only reiterates their previous statements about not recognizing the breakaway provinces but doubles down by saying that Crimea isn't Russian and that they have no intention of helping Russia duck sanctions.

Johnny B. Decent

So, who has the better claim to Kalingrad Oblast; Poland or Lithuania?

pariston_hill

@Johnny:

So, who has the better claim to Kalingrad Oblast; Poland or Lithuania?

I'm not sure the territory was ever in the hands of the Commonwealth…I guess Germany?

Johnny B. Decent

@pariston_hill:

I'm not sure the territory was ever in the hands of the Commonwealth…I guess Germany?

Kalingrad is that little part of Russia that's separated from the rest of the country, sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania.

pariston_hill

@Johnny:

Kalingrad is that little part of Russia that's separated from the rest of the country, sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania.

Yeah I know, what I'm talking is that me thinks that Könisberg and by extension East Prussia (or at least it's northen portion) were never under the control of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. So the previous de facto and de jure owner would be Germany.

Ubiq

Ducal Prussia was part of the Kingdom of Poland from about the mid-1400 until the Kingdom of Prussia was established in 1701 so, yeah, it would have been part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

pariston_hill

My understanding is that a fief is like a protectorate, but I'm by no means an expert in feudal system structure.

wolfwood

Ukraine claims to now control the entire capital region again. And gruesome reports about what the Russian soldiers have done before retreating have been steadily coming in, massgraves, burned naked bodies, people tied up and executed. Fucked up beyond belief

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Lithuania to completely abandon Russian gas.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

It's been said that Russian negotiators have come to accept Ukraines position on everything but Crimea.

Smiley

That country needs to fucking cease to exist, nukes be damned.

Silverblade

Ah, whoops. wolfwood already posted this while I was writing the othуr part of the reply.

With the Battle of Kyiv over, and Russian forces rapidly retreating, Ukrainians are finding civilian corpses all over the streets and roads of the towns of bucha, Irpin, Hostomel all across Kyiv Oblast. Many of the corpses have had their hands tied behind their backs and shot in the backs of their heads. Only in Bucha the mayor confirms 280 dead. Not yet at Srebrenica, but already out of Vukovar.

Fucking hell. Curse you, bald dwarf.

@pariston_hill:

Yeah I know, what I'm talking is that me thinks that Könisberg and by extension East Prussia (or at least it's northen portion) were never under the control of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. So the previous de facto and de jure owner would be Germany.

@pariston_hill:

My understanding is that a fief is like a protectorate, but I'm by no means an expert in feudal system structure.

It's a bit complicated. Teutonic or Monastic Prussia fell in decline after the battle of Gruenwald and other wars with Poland and Lithuania in XVth century. It lead to creation of Royal Prussia and Ducal Prussia. Royal Prussia was a proper province of the Polish Kingdom and then Commonwealth. Ducal Prussia was a fief of the Duke of Prussia (previously Teutonic Grand Master), which became the basis of the first Protestant State in Europe, part of the personal union with Brandenburg, and then became Kingdom of Prussia, and then German Empire.

Speaking of the region,

becomes first EU country to ban Russian gas.

Monkey King

Every last nightmarish thing about this is just a complete mask off mass event for Putin's Russia.

Johnny B. Decent

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Johnny B. Decent

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Johnny B. Decent

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Green_vs_Red

I guess with the terrible news of Russian forces executing civilians I guess we shouldn’t be too upset over Russian forces being poisoned

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-troops-dead-getting-treated-201328360.html

Nolus

Elections are today in Hungary. Already cast my votes. Let's see how this turns out. I've had enough of this year's campaign.

Smudger

@Green_vs_Red:

I guess with the terrible news of Russian forces executing civilians I guess we shouldn’t be too upset over Russian forces being poisoned

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-troops-dead-getting-treated-201328360.html

I feel the opposite when I read about the tragic aftermath of this ongoing war. Judging by reports of captured russians it's likely the majority of these russian soldiers are being lied to, and think of themselves as heroes. And while yes I can understand this won't hold water for everyone, I can understand how losing a comrade on either side could make you lose your humanity.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russian-soldiers-ukraine-anger-duped-into-war

Monkey King

@Smudger:

I feel the opposite when I read about the tragic aftermath of this ongoing war. Judging by reports of captured russians it's likely the majority of these russian soldiers are being lied to, and think of themselves as heroes. And while yes I can understand this won't hold water for everyone, I can understand how losing a comrade on either side could make you lose your humanity.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russian-soldiers-ukraine-anger-duped-into-war

This is what I thought at first, but now look at the most recent news we're getting of what they've been up to in the areas they were occupying.

pariston_hill

Not to be the what-about it guy, but I've seen Zelyonka attacks on Roma ins Lviv and other people tied to poles for being cowards/traitors of for speaking russian.
This is a war, both sides are commenting violence against the civilian population as it's usual in well a war.

DoctorPhil

@Nolus:

Elections are today in Hungary. Already cast my votes. Let's see how this turns out. I've had enough of this year's campaign.

Any chance of Orban losing any political power or are things likely staying 100% the same?

wolfwood

@pariston_hill:

Not to be the what-about it guy, but I've seen Zelyonka attacks on Roma ins Lviv and other people tied to poles for being cowards/traitors of for speaking russian.
This is a war, both sides are commenting violence against the civilian population as it's usual in well a war.

You probably won't get great traction on both sidesing a thing where an invading ethnic crusade force is bulldozing executed civilians into massgraves.

Cyan D. Funk

The idea seems to have been to do a mass-scale Katyn Massacre in Ukraine after victory, killing as many politicians, cops, military officers, civil service people, and media people as possible to obliterate any rallying points for resistance.

wolfwood

Pretty much yes, which just goes to show that there was never a point where you could "surrender to save lives". Russia came in intent on cleansing and repurposing Ukraine and nothing can be gained by giving even an inch to this kind of enemy.

Johnny B. Decent

I'm kinda glad my dad isn't alive for this as he was very anti-Russian as his dad fled Poland after WW2. He would have had some choice comments.

Huschel

@Nolus:

Elections are today in Hungary. Already cast my votes. Let's see how this turns out. I've had enough of this year's campaign.

I talked to a Hungarian woman yesterday who has been living in Germany for the last 13 years and who was summoned to count votes for the election in an effort to counteract corruption. I didn't really get it, but it sounded pretty good on paper. Do you maybe have any insight or is this way too vague.. ?

Smudger

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Smudger

@Monkey:

This is what I thought at first, but now look at the most recent news we're getting of what they've been up to in the areas they were occupying.

I've been following this largely on BBC news, which this week has focused on potential war crimes from indiscriminate shelling and the 20 bound bodies that were found.

I'm not sure if the news is being filtered to some degree here, but it seems to leave a lot out.

I just did a quick check and watched today's update on other news sources, and the contrast between the two is massive.

Any good news sources from the ground would be welcome, especially those from reports coming out of Bucha.

Nolus

@DoctorPhil:

Any chance of Orban losing any political power or are things likely staying 100% the same?

Well, I had hopes that even if Fidesz wins, they won't have the same majority as before. As it turned out, no luck.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/03/hungary-election-live-voting-closes-as-viktor-orban-seeks-fifth-term-in-office

At least we succeeded in cockblocking that fucking awful referendum so that was fortunately only a huge waste of taxpayer money and a moderate dose of anxiety every time I stepped out of my house and saw those fucking billboards and ads plastered all over the streets.

@Huschel:

I talked to a Hungarian woman yesterday who has been living in Germany for the last 13 years and who was summoned to count votes for the election in an effort to counteract corruption. I didn't really get it, but it sounded pretty good on paper. Do you maybe have any insight or is this way too vague.. ?

I heard that some European commission tried to keep a close eye on the validity of the elections, but I have no idea if they were fully successful. To be honest, it might not matter, since the voting itself came secondary to everything that happened before. Fidesz quite literally was buying voters with a few kilos of apples, meat and potatoes in some districts, so what does it fucking matter?

It's all a shame, really, because the opposition leader seemed pretty nice, even discounting the fact that almost anything is nice compared to a band of thieving spineless pieces of shit.

Now let the euro soar over the forint so that people can keep blaming the gays/Soros/Brussels/liberals when they can no longer afford basic necessities. Business as usual.

Hey, maybe now they'll stop pestering LGBTQ+ people, because it's not longer necessary? Please?