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I guess. But if you add up indifference and just here for the ride they win by a landslide.
I suppose there could be a split betwenn i think i'll like it unsure and it might suck unsure tho.
I think a lot of us are just waiting to see how it plays out. Oda could take it in several directions, some great and some terrible, so it feels best to just wait and see.
Emerging from my lurking cause I've been sitting on my feelings on the Gum Gum Fruit also being the Nika Fruit, and the developments of the past 3-4 chapters for a little while and I think I've got some thoughts settled.
I was very concerned about the direction Oda would take all of these developments when we started getting the info dumps from Who's Who about the government going after the Gum Gum Fruit, the namedropping of Nika and the visual call backs to Luffy at the Skypiea parties, and the Elders discussing a "legendary" fruit with a different name. I, like a lot of people, (especially older sections of the fanbase) do not like the idea of the "chosen one" narrative with all the special powers and destiny and whatnot. Like I'm watching through Naruto for the first time, and my motivation to watch has dropped significantly now that I'm at the part of Shippuden where it leans hard into Naruto's parents, the seemingly genetic nature of chakra as a power system, and the very on-the-nose "chosen one" stuff. I'm not going to sit here and be like "Naruto used to be about hard work vs. talent" (because quite frankly I don't agree with that, the biggest theme in the series is the idea of "strength through bonds"), but I do think it does ultimately undercut earlier moments and established character dynamics from earlier in the series that were effective.
So I say all of that to say that I sympathize with (some of) the criticisms I've seen over the past few weeks, cause I've also been really concerned of One Piece falling into that same fate as Naruto. While there are some, uh, extreme reactions imo, I think there are a lot of fair points to be critical of. But to be honest, now that we're here on the other side of 1044, I personally feel content with the direction the series is going, and I think Oda's landed this well enough to earn my trust going forward. I think "Joyboy" being seeded early post-timeskip, and the sun/dawn association being present from pretty much day 1 help this land for me in terms of the buildup to these developments. I do think the Who's Who exposition dump is clumsy storytelling that takes away from giving Jimbe a better encounter and more time to shine. But I also think the combination of the Joyboy/Sun/Dawn stuff and it being pretty easy to contextualize why we're getting this erased history and confidential information from this source (a former secret government agent turned high ranking member of an emperor's crew) at this late point in the journey bring me to terms with it, even if the presentation of information is a bit sloppy. I accept that this has probably been in the cards for a while, even if some specifics weren't ironed out until recently (which we can only speculate on to begin with).
I'm very relieved with how he's handled the power itself. Because really the only thing that has changed here is the classification of the fruit. It doesn't really touch the abilities of the fruit. Luffy is still, at the end of the day, a rubber human who must rely on creative applications of his abilities to not only hold his own but to unlock to true nature of the fruit. Like it didn't imbue him with special hidden powers from the outset that have quietly been working in the background undercutting the legitimacy of Luffy's past accomplishments. I think there's been a lot of jumping-to-conclusions based on the way things like scans have translated and framed these new developments. Like Luffy is not literally a god, and he doesn't have the ability to warp reality. He's got the powers of someone who lived in the past who was a rubber person, who has the epithet of a "god". I never bought that Nika is a literal "sun god", not in the same series that delivers an arc like Skypiea in which our protagonist punches someone with a god complex, and there's a flashback that opens with illustrating a conflict between religious tradition and scientific rationalism. Oda has to stick the landing on what exactly Devil Fruit are, how they work, where they come from, how they're made, etc. But I also buy Greg's idea of it being a mixture of both a Paramecia and a Zoan, and if Nika is just a Lunarian with rubber (Paramecia) abilities, who was then used as the basis of a Zoan fruit, I can see that landing fine. Again again, he's still a rubber person and been a rubber person. It's that the ability is only limited by the creativity of its user, and for someone as off-the-wall and free as Luffy, it's the perfect fruit. Luffy being who Luffy is, possessing the personality traits he does and having the experiences he's had, is what's allowed him to get here using this fruit. And while I can understand the criticism that this power-up feels unearned/comes out of nowhere… Idk it's pretty hard for me to understand perspective without thinking about how Luffy just suddenly comes out in Enies Lobby with both Second and Third Gears, after no build up or explanation of how Luffy came up with or developed these abilities what-so-ever. It's sudden then, and it's sudden now, but it also didn't bother me that much then, and it's not really bothering me much now. In large part because...
I'm having an absolute blast with Gear 5. I love these powers, I love the goofy ass Looney Tunes/Popeye aesthetic and all the visual gags. And just reading week-to-week for the past 10 years, this is to me some of the funniest, most exciting content in the whole series. Kaido's eyes popping out as Luffy's arm drags him away kills me. Seeing just how creative Luffy can get with these abilities is fun! I know some aren't happy with how goofy it is, I see a lot of comments about this robbing the fight of "tension" and being some tonal whiplash, which you know, to each their own. But for me, I also feel like I just got some of the most tense content I've read in the series week-to-week with Kaido's finishing blow on Luffy, and then the narrator box declaring "Winner: Kaido, King of the Beasts". One of One Piece's biggest strengths is its ability to pull these tonal shifts, and while I definitely agree that this is easily one of the most extreme cases, it works for me. I feel you if you think this is too rapid of a shift. But I think for me though the ping-ponging between absolute despair and joyous laughter works because it's so extreme. The idea of Luffy bringing genuine laughter to the people Kaido has robbed that from through his tyranny and the effects of SMILE sounds so satisfying, but for that to work I feel like you have to juxtapose those two ends of the spectrum here at the climax. To me it's not One Piece without stuff like this. And look, at the end of the day I'm just having fun with this. Luffy's out here doin some Tex Avery shit! Give me funny, goofy, cartoony One Piece that doesn't hold back in both how serious and how silly it all is.
Emerging from my lurking cause I've been sitting on my feelings on the Gum Gum Fruit also being the Nika Fruit, and the developments of the past 3-4 chapters for a little while and I think I've got some thoughts settled.
I was very concerned about the direction Oda would take all of these developments when we started getting the info dumps from Who's Who about the government going after the Gum Gum Fruit, the namedropping of Nika and the visual call backs to Luffy at the Skypiea parties, and the Elders discussing a "legendary" fruit with a different name. I, like a lot of people, (especially older sections of the fanbase) do not like the idea of the "chosen one" narrative with all the special powers and destiny and whatnot. Like I'm watching through Naruto for the first time, and my motivation to watch has dropped significantly now that I'm at the part of Shippuden where it leans hard into Naruto's parents, the seemingly genetic nature of chakra as a power system, and the very on-the-nose "chosen one" stuff. I'm not going to sit here and be like "Naruto used to be about hard work vs. talent" (because quite frankly I don't agree with that, the biggest theme in the series is the idea of "strength through bonds"), but I do think it does ultimately undercut earlier moments and established character dynamics from earlier in the series that were effective.
So I say all of that to say that I sympathize with (some of) the criticisms I've seen over the past few weeks, cause I've also been really concerned of One Piece falling into that same fate as Naruto. While there are some, uh, extreme reactions imo, I think there are a lot of fair points to be critical of. But to be honest, now that we're here on the other side of 1044, I personally feel content with the direction the series is going, and I think Oda's landed this well enough to earn my trust going forward. I think "Joyboy" being seeded early post-timeskip, and the sun/dawn association being present from pretty much day 1 help this land for me in terms of the buildup to these developments. I do think the Who's Who exposition dump is clumsy storytelling that takes away from giving Jimbe a better encounter and more time to shine. But I also think the combination of the Joyboy/Sun/Dawn stuff and it being pretty easy to contextualize why we're getting this erased history and confidential information from this source (a former secret government agent turned high ranking member of an emperor's crew) at this late point in the journey bring me to terms with it, even if the presentation of information is a bit sloppy. I accept that this has probably been in the cards for a while, even if some specifics weren't ironed out until recently (which we can only speculate on to begin with).
I'm very relieved with how he's handled the power itself. Because really the only thing that has changed here is the classification of the fruit. It doesn't really touch the abilities of the fruit. Luffy is still, at the end of the day, a rubber human who must rely on creative applications of his abilities to not only hold his own but to unlock to true nature of the fruit. Like it didn't imbue him with special hidden powers from the outset that have quietly been working in the background undercutting the legitimacy of Luffy's past accomplishments. I think there's been a lot of jumping-to-conclusions based on the way things like scans have translated and framed these new developments. Like Luffy is not literally a god, and he doesn't have the ability to warp reality. He's got the powers of someone who lived in the past who was a rubber person, who has the epithet of a "god". I never bought that Nika is a literal "sun god", not in the same series that delivers an arc like Skypiea in which our protagonist punches someone with a god complex, and there's a flashback that opens with illustrating a conflict between religious tradition and scientific rationalism. Oda has to stick the landing on what exactly Devil Fruit are, how they work, where they come from, how they're made, etc. But I also buy Greg's idea of it being a mixture of both a Paramecia and a Zoan, and if Nika is just a Lunarian with rubber (Paramecia) abilities, who was then used as the basis of a Zoan fruit, I can see that landing fine. Again again, he's still a rubber person and been a rubber person. It's that the ability is only limited by the creativity of its user, and for someone as off-the-wall and free as Luffy, it's the perfect fruit. Luffy being who Luffy is, possessing the personality traits he does and having the experiences he's had, is what's allowed him to get here using this fruit. And while I can understand the criticism that this power-up feels unearned/comes out of nowhere… Idk it's pretty hard for me to understand perspective without thinking about how Luffy just suddenly comes out in Enies Lobby with both Second and Third Gears, after no build up or explanation of how Luffy came up with or developed these abilities what-so-ever. It's sudden then, and it's sudden now, but it also didn't bother me that much then, and it's not really bothering me much now. In large part because...
I'm having an absolute blast with Gear 5. I love these powers, I love the goofy ass Looney Tunes/Popeye aesthetic and all the visual gags. And just reading week-to-week for the past 10 years, this is to me some of the funniest, most exciting content in the whole series. Kaido's eyes popping out as Luffy's arm drags him away kills me. Seeing just how creative Luffy can get with these abilities is fun! I know some aren't happy with how goofy it is, I see a lot of comments about this robbing the fight of "tension" and being some tonal whiplash, which you know, to each their own. But for me, I also feel like I just got some of the most tense content I've read in the series week-to-week with Kaido's finishing blow on Luffy, and then the narrator box declaring "Winner: Kaido, King of the Beasts". One of One Piece's biggest strengths is its ability to pull these tonal shifts, and while I definitely agree that this is easily one of the most extreme cases, it works for me. I feel you if you think this is too rapid of a shift. But I think for me though the ping-ponging between absolute despair and joyous laughter works because it's so extreme. The idea of Luffy bringing genuine laughter to the people Kaido has robbed that from through his tyranny and the effects of SMILE sounds so satisfying, but for that to work I feel like you have to juxtapose those two ends of the spectrum here at the climax. To me it's not One Piece without stuff like this. And look, at the end of the day I'm just having fun with this. Luffy's out here doin some Tex Avery shit! Give me funny, goofy, cartoony One Piece that doesn't hold back in both how serious and how silly it all is.
This is a very high quality post.
Also hard agree in the last part. I think the message that Luffy is the one bringing the sun, the smile, to an island who has known incredible pain for 20 years is pretty symbolic. Yes it's dumb that he is able to laugh in this situation, but that's the point. He is liberating the place by bringing happiness to it again.
I feel like we got thrown in raw into this one. Maybe its something we grow onto. I fall under the indifferent, unsure.
Indifferent + I'm just here to finish the ride, which is probably the worst reaction.
At this point, I just want to see how One Piece will progress once the initially introduced batch of Yonko goes down plus the Will of D. plot.
I was one that never really cared for the stretching ability in fiction. Wasn’t 100% lame but it was borderline.
Oda made me appreciate how creative you can get with the power though and I settled in to liking Luffy’s fighting style while very aware of his limits
Now that he’s basically a reality warped a power I love, in the form of a cartoon character I’m just here for the ride.
I find it a stretch that what was assumed to be a rubber fruit is actually a deity base ability but the god is completely made up from scratch anyway so not much for me to complain about there.
The execution of it going back to Who’s Who name dropping Nika, his grudge against the Red Hair pirates, and the 5 Elders all chiming in is questionable but it’s hard to say when Oda came up with these newer ideas or settled on exactly what the secret DF would entail. He obviously had a framework and outline given when the sun god was originally name dropped. Plus he did say he wanted a different way of defeating Kaido than just super strong punch as per usual. I dig it. I’m just waiting for the drawbacks and exactly how characters like Im and Blackbeard will pose a bigger threat.
It's better when it's just Gomu-gomu albeit that was used by Nika in the past… but now, eh...
I think the last big thing to learn is about the concept of Nika. Why does a Sun God have a rubbery body? And how does that tie to the cartoony reality warping it has obtained once Awoken?
I dont remember seeing luffy laugh while fighting even if he formed weird shapes, baloon, or anything be kept the serious face.
Now it seems like the fruit itself is making luffy fight the way he fight right now.
Other than that, the fight has been hilarious and although seems so looney tooney vibe, it still didn't reduce the excitement.
So having a hard time deciding whether i like the gomu gomu reveal or not ,for now.
Oda could have many things under his sleeves so let's wait for further explanation/ reveal.
I see it as Luffy having a (legendary) rubberman DF instead of having a rubber DF. So not much worth screaming retcon IMO.
My guess would be that JB ate a rubber fruit, liberated people bringing smiles around him with his ridiculous power, was nicknamed the Sun God (don't take the Sun part literally) as a result, and the Nika fruit was created from him (as it is probably the case with all Human Fruits).
Alternatively, we could learn that some people in the past were born naturally with powers and JB was one of them.
In any case, I see the Nika connection more as a plot thread Oda wants to use for later more than some justification of his power-up.
Luffy is still doing rubber stuff at the end of the day so nothing really changes. It's just got more fun.
If Raftel was truly "Laughtale" from early on, and it was just mistranslated or something, then Oda had to have conceptualized this power to develop within Luffy in some way or another.
I as of now don't have any other problems with this development. I very much enjoy it. I will be honest that I would have appreciated 1 or 2 more hints about Luffy's strange devil fruit powers from someone with lots of battle-experience or knowledge of devil fruit abilities/devil fruits themselves. Because guessing along the way what was going on with Luffy would have also been fun.
With the most recent chapter, 1,045 and Kaido mentioning Luffy having both properties of a paramethia and a Zoan, would you guys have liked it more to see Kaidos comments first and then jump to the 5 Elders to get the information dump? So change the order and create some suspension? Kaidos comments in Chapter 1,044 and 5 Elder reveal in Chapter 1,045. Or are most of you, who voted for Hate it, in general disappointed with the retcon?
SW-3170-8630-8341
I personally loved everything around the reveal, as far as retcons go (and this IS a retcon, even if it was planned a decade or two ago), it felt very Kung-Fu Hustle to me, which is a movie that is dear and near to my heart. Really love how much freedom it gave Oda as an artist too.
@Gol:
With the most recent chapter, 1,045 and Kaido mentioning Luffy having both properties of a paramethia and a Zoan, would you guys have liked it more to see Kaidos comments first and then jump to the 5 Elders to get the information dump? So change the order and create some suspension? Kaidos comments in Chapter 1,044 and 5 Elder reveal in Chapter 1,045. Or are most of you, who voted for Hate it, in general disappointed with the retcon?
But that way you don't have the crescendo of the name reveal timed with Luffy's awakening moment.
I hate it. It breaks too much of one piece established in-battle logic and is one of the most broken awakening yet. It's ridiculous how the narrative of working hard and using powers creatively with limitations is now blown away by having no limitations and a power up that feels undeserved in one of the most important fights in the series. Also, with the latest chapter and if we put aside all the looney tunes and giant moments, luffy fights almost exactly as he did pre-gear 2nd with goofier swinging of the arms. Like, if the serious and tension filled moments are going to be filled with mano mano fist to fist AGAIN and Luffy is basically fighting in his default state, whipping out whacky moves that are slightly more ridiculous than pre gear 2nd…then I find it hard to accept that this is a better choice than not having it at all.
This power-up is going to hard carry him to end of the series too. But I get that Oda is having fun and he deserves to have fun, but I'm not. I just respect that. I want him to go looney tunes on someone that's not Kaido, who's like the 2nd place in terms of sheer raw power thus far. Also gum-gum fruit sounds better than *insert important lore and superfluous name" of a godlike sounding fruit that straight out affects the entire narrative, sure you can argue if you dissect it or analyze it, it's the same fruit as it always has been! But no way your casual audience and most people is going to just see it as eh, its just like every other devil fruit. It's never going to be that way.
To the people who have been saying that oh one piece has always been wacky, we've been reading the wrong manga, then I think it is only fair that the people who criticize this change is allowed to judge the series as a wacky manga too from now on. Sure, it has serious and worldbuilding moments but since the other side brought comedy and wackiness in dramatic moments into the fold, then it is only fair that we view the series fights through the lens and writing standards of bugs bunny and tom and jerry fights. For instance, I think all zoro fights are fucking shit since they are not funny enough which is one of the main component of One Piece. I also think kinemon surviving is well done and brilliant writing, since it is funny and cartoonish, which is the main component of one piece.
I don't see anything broken about Luffy's devil fruit awakening, most of what he has done so far, have been done already, even the lightening he is holding onto in chapter 1046, we have seen already in strong world. The only thing change about the ability is that he can now affect persons and the environment, Luffy so far on paper is the only one I see work hard to reach where he is and deserve the power up he got. The awakening only allows him to have more control over his body and can flex his body in whatever form he likes. This is the same as any rubber powers I know in every comics, I was even looking for him to become liquid rubber which Oda seems not to going down that route. I don't know why fans want everybody in the series devil fruit to be broken and the protagonist fruit to just be meh. Law fruit is broken, Kaido fruit is broken, Big mom fruit is broken, Black Beard fruit is broken, Kid fruit is broken if he was creative. As it relates to the fruit becoming a Zoan there must be a reason why Oda made it so, we just don't know yet. I also think it being a zoan could have been avoided as we could have gotten the same result but there must be some info Oda as yet to reveal that might make it make sense (maybe).
I kinda like the way the awakening feels more like old wacky one piece.
It being a different fruit is pretty dumb though, and it's most certainly a retcon.
But I honestly don't care much, it's not really like it came out of left field. The "chosen one"-stuff has been pretty heavyhanded since the timeskip, and to a degree even before then.
The hat, the name and everyone comparing him to roger appareantly wasn't enough though.
I like the power up, its really creative, fun and powerful, its also a great continuation to Luffy's growth as it builds up on everything he learned before and raise it to extreme levels.
I don't like the association with gods and Joy Boy. Then again it doesn't make sense for a random rubber fruit to be this powerful after awakening, so I can forgive this part.
All in all, excellent development.
I'm just enjoying the ride.
Though I feel Oda really needs to prove that it wasn't a last minute creation like the supernova.
@Gol:
With the most recent chapter, 1,045 and Kaido mentioning Luffy having both properties of a paramethia and a Zoan, would you guys have liked it more to see Kaidos comments first and then jump to the 5 Elders to get the information dump? So change the order and create some suspension? Kaidos comments in Chapter 1,044 and 5 Elder reveal in Chapter 1,045. Or are most of you, who voted for Hate it, in general disappointed with the retcon?
I think I would've liked to have just seen Kaido's comments (he mirrored so much of the 5 elders exposition) for this arc, then at a later arc have Zunesha appear and do the Joy Boy reveal along with the 5 elder exposition.
I'm thinking more like Yu Yu Hakusho, Yusuke fighting Sensui gets the power up, only elaborated upon in the next arc.
The powers, the look and the history I don't hate, but the reclassifacation to Mythical Zoan to make it more special I hate a whole lot.
Phrased differently 'Joyboy was someone who used the gomu-gomu fruit to its full potential' is very cool.
'The gomu-gomu fruit is actually the very most specialest devil fruit ever' is not.
The only worse twist I can think of is that Gol D. Roger was the previous user of the fruit but nobody, in the entire series, ever thought to mention that before.
Quite confused about it at this point. I like the gear 5; the visuals and the cartoony twist as it reminds me of Old OP and I really enjoyed reading the combat dynamics in recent chapters. I am also okay with the zoan reveal as long as Oda give strong motives for the Gorosei not to be active to persue luffy during all this time. However, plotwise and at consitency level; all these awakening schemes do not make sense for me.
We have Rayleigh stating at several occasions that Haki is the counter measure for devil fruit users. Then earlier in the arc we have Law stating that he cannot teleport neither Big Mom nor Kaidou because of their strong haki.
And now I have the impression that all of this is negated because of awakening. We have Law spamming his shockwille with BM simply witnessing, and same for Kaido vs G5 Luffy in which Kaidou becomes rubber himself while hit by Luffy. And it also opens up the possibility for Doffy and Katakuri to turn their opponents into strings / Mochi, but we did not see that.
I have 2 explanations for this.
1- Awakening is bypassing any sort of Armament haki yet presented in OP
2- Kaido and Big Mom did not use any COA while being hit by awakening
In both scenarios this is pretty dumb to me, therefore my confusion. If someone understood this better than me then I would be very happy to hear it, but anyhow I hope Oda will provide further explanations, because so far it is quite inconsistent.
Quite confused about it at this point. I like the gear 5; the visuals and the cartoony twist as it reminds me of Old OP and I really enjoyed reading the combat dynamics in recent chapters. I am also okay with the zoan reveal as long as Oda give strong motives for the Gorosei not to be active to persue luffy during all this time. However, plotwise and at consitency level; all these awakening schemes do not make sense for me.
We have Rayleigh stating at several occasions that Haki is the counter measure for devil fruit users. Then earlier in the arc we have Law stating that he cannot teleport neither Big Mom nor Kaidou because of their strong haki.
And now I have the impression that all of this is negated because of awakening. We have Law spamming his shockwille with BM simply witnessing, and same for Kaido vs G5 Luffy in which Kaidou becomes rubber himself while hit by Luffy. And it also opens up the possibility for Doffy and Katakuri to turn their opponents into strings / Mochi, but we did not see that.
I have 2 explanations for this.
1- Awakening is bypassing any sort of Armament haki yet presented in OP
2- Kaido and Big Mom did not use any COA while being hit by awakeningIn both scenarios this is pretty dumb to me, therefore my confusion. If someone understood this better than me then I would be very happy to hear it, but anyhow I hope Oda will provide further explanations, because so far it is quite inconsistent.
Each Devil Fruit has an arbitrary set of licenses and limitations. For example, there are DF abilities that stop working when the user is knocked out unconscious (Sugar) and DF abilities that do not (Big Mom and Moria); there are DFs that can enchant another human body (Moria's shadows) and DFs that cannot (Big Mom's souls). Just like that, exceptionalism is true for every single DF according to Oda's judgement of what's better for the story.
DoFlamingo and Katakuri can't turn people into string/mochi, but Luffy can make other people rubber. Why? Because yes, since different awakenings don't need to follow the same strict pattern. And it's probably because rubberizing other people is interesting for fights, whereas it would be chaotic if Mingo made his enemies into strings, especially because Mingo can mindcontrol his awakened strings while Luffy needs to physically stretch everything he turns into rubber… so Luffy is not hacking the fight like Mingo would.
And how Haki counters DFs also depends on the case and the powers. Since Law's abilities are broken, there's this limitation that Law can't simply control other people's bodies inside the room (because that would be terrible), and the in-universe justification for that is Haki. However, Law can still attack his enemies with powers like Gamma Knife and his awakening Shockwille because that's fine. Meanwhile, Luffy can rubberize the body of his enemies regardless of Haki since it's not broken, and because Oda thinks it's fun to draw the fights like that.
I saw a theory that stated: what if Shanks knew about the nika nika no mi, and was in Foosha village to give the fruit to ace, knowing that Rogers son could carry out out the promise left by Joyboy.
And ever since then the few issues I've had about Luffy inheriting the fruit disappeared.
I'm really interested in seeing Oda give us the whole story about this fruits journey. I feel like their is a way to manage this that'll put a lot of the readers issues to rest.
I'm indifferent to the retcon. I would have preferred Luffy have stayed a rubber paramecia who got the most out of a mediocre fruit through creative application, but I don't really care enough to be annoyed or upset by the change.
I think more people would have liked it, if it stayed a Paramecia, albeit still a cartoony reality warper, just called the Nika-Nika no Mi.
I love the fruit and joyboy and everything that comes with it. The only problem is the underperformance, Luffy should have overwhelmed Kaido. We’re talking about joyboy here. Luffy is no longer an ordinary man, he has risen and become a legend. The legend that the WG fears.
WG: “ I feel like we’ve been here before, Vegeta explain”
I like it. Want to see more. Perfectly executed and made up for those horrible 2 chapters of Roof Piece and shitty Momo development.
Love it! My favorite moment in the whole manga. Yes, the build up to it and some of what it entails sucks, but the parallel with Blackbeard and what Luffy can now do? Fucking fantastic!
